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Time's Turnings  by daw the minstrel 25 Review(s)
pipinheartReviewed Chapter: 8 on 10/12/2005
beliond treats Legolas as a elfling...and he hates it. He should treat him with some respect...
Eilian seems to partly be enjoying himself at the dinner...

Author Reply: Eilian is usually good at enjoying himself. That's why the shadow sickness is so devastating for him. His natural state is happiness, I think.

The KarenatorReviewed Chapter: 8 on 2/6/2005
Wow! The Inn sounds like a 'delightful' place: hot, stuffy and smelly. Yep, Beliond is not happy with the arrangements. But the young one is having a blast...while doing his job.

Great confrontation between keeper and 'cub'. Legolas seems to be finding his legs. He has a point; he's either a warrior or he's not. There's an inherent risk in choosing to be a warrior that not even Beliond can do anything about. Then there's the keeper's problems. I can't imagine he'd want to be the one who had to go back and tell Thranduil that he had let something happen to his 'baby'.

The lady of evening was a hoot. She was so obvious, yet sweet little Legolas had no idea that he had just been propositioned. If this woman had not frightened the wits out of Beliond just by her close proximity to his charge, then he would have probably found it rather amusing to see Legolas caught so off guard. Just drives his point home; Legolas doesn't know all there is to know. Still, Nana Bear doesn't care what you might want, don't be putting your hands on his cub.

Okay, we know now who is stirring up trouble in Dale for the Elves. I'm looking forward to finding out what's in it for the Easterlings. And I'm looking forward to finding out what's in the man's 'spice' wares.

Eilian and Bram are still dancing around one another. And the queen's joined in. Everyone is feeling out everyone else. I do have to say that I'm with Eilian about putting one's finger in the sauce. Considering the bathing habits of men, that would be a little disconcerting. But I guess it gives new meaning to 'finger-lickin' good'. Yuk.

The tension builds. Things are beginning to fall into place for something exciting to happen. I'm ready when you are for the next chapter.

Great fun as always, daw.

Carry on, Karen

Author Reply: Yeah, and besides Beliond's fears about having to tell Thranduil if anything happened to Legolas, there's his own history and the loss of his son. So he's not always rational in dealing with his charge. And then Legolas kind of provoked him too. It's almost irresistable to do it.

Beliond was a little amused by Legolas's reaction to the prostitute -- at least, once she had left he was amused. A prostitute is just so far from elven expectations that Legolas had no idea what he was facing. One of the things that I liked though is that his politeness (Thranduil did a good job there) and his own good intentions led him to behave well. Of course, it's a good thing that he didn't decide she needed to be escorted home. He might have gotten a big surprise.

I found that finger in the sauce thing at a site about medieval food. You weren't supposed to lick your finger though. That would be icky!

emjoReviewed Chapter: 8 on 2/6/2005
oh the prostitute thing cracked me up poor inocent Legolas. And Beliond was brilliant! This story just keeps getting better, can't wait for the next chapter!

Author Reply: Glad you like it, emjo. Legolas is a little at sea in a foreign culture, and he's been raised to be polite. The lady of the evening came was just not what was he was expecting!

White WolfReviewed Chapter: 8 on 2/6/2005
The whole scene in the inn was great. I loved it when Legolas asked Beliond if he was going to let him be a warrior or not. I also loved Legolas's reaction to what Beliond told him the woman in the common room really wanted. :o)

Author Reply: The inn scene was fun to write once I got going on it. It took me a while because I wanted to try to develop Beliond and Legolas's relationship as well as play with the culture clash between men and elves. Poor Legolas. He was just lucky Beliond decided to take him at his word and not give him any sort of sex education lecture.

KarriReviewed Chapter: 8 on 2/6/2005
Oi! Legolas is feeling his oats a bit, isn't he? Beliond is being impressively patient, but I can't see that lasting much longer. Trouble is definitely looming. I hope for Legolas's sake some mischief find the Thranduilions, so that both Beliond and Legolas have a distraction to keep them occupied until tempers settle.

Author Reply: Yes, Legolas is ready to rebel a little and I think it's time. I know Beliond is right about certain things, but Legolas needs to speak up for himself too. Trouble find the sons of Thranduil? Surely not! :-)

DotReviewed Chapter: 8 on 2/6/2005
You are an absolute legend, daw! I really needed some entertainment and boy did this fit the bill! My Dad’s been in hospital since Tuesday and between being there and being at work, I’ve barely had a moment to myself so this is a wonderful way to spend some of Sunday night. *snigger* Poor Legolas.

Ugh, I can just imagine how horrible the inn must have seemed to the two elves. That smell of onions will cling to those two if it was in the air, you know. They might want to find a large supply of water somewhere. Just one bed? Would they have to share? I suppose sharing was fairly common, though. I had to laugh at Legolas’ determination to make the best of things since he’s the one who landed them in this position.

The clash between Beliond and Legolas was written so fantastically well. I always end up agreeing with both of them! Legolas could be right that eating downstairs would be a good way to gauge the general feeling of the town, but then Beliond could be right that there’s no point in just sitting in the middle of a potentially volatile situation, especially when they know nothing about it. I really feel bad for Beliond, though, because the guy is just trying to do his job and seems to be losing any control he has over Legolas. Of course, Legolas probably feels that he isn’t looking for any more independence that the freedom to do what he is there to do. I cringed at that comment about Beliond not being his father, even though Legolas likely didn’t mean it as harshly as Beliond would have taken it. Did they have cotton wool back then, by the way??

Maltanaur and Eilian’s relationship is certainly an easier one and they’ve both achieved a sense of respect for each other that Beliond and Legolas have yet to develop, but I think Legolas is also seeing only the good parts. They’ve had a long time together, which certainly counts for something, but Maltanaur would still try to stop him doing anything he felt was stupid or dangerous.

Actually, Legolas is lucky he has Beliond with him here. At least Beliond is familiar with the way an inn is run, otherwise the two of them would have looked completely ignorant and probably be still waiting for their dinner.

LOL at the ale-tasting. If things weren’t so tense, Beliond could really enjoy himself. And that woman! I’m still laughing at the way Legolas automatically reached for his knife – at least he managed to stop himself before he put it to her throat! Try explaining that one to Eilian. And he was so polite to her! I didn’t realise at first that he didn’t know she was a prostitute so I did a double take at the part about not being “sidetracked into pleasantries with a woman.” You’re too funny, daw! And you write prostitutes very well! Legolas is not going to forget sitting in an inn while Beliond explained what she was doing. It must be incomprehensible to elves. No wonder it wouldn’t have occurred straight away to Legolas. And I’d personally have paid to listen to Beliond “explain further”.

That spice merchant definitely seems to be trouble. And he’s not even bothering to hide it really.

I thought Legolas handled the drunken men much better than he did Raena. The way the dwarf came to their rescue was priceless. I can believe that they don’t want to damage any trade relations either but the insult that left Legolas slightly puzzled was hilarious.

“A year or two perhaps, but his brother has lived here much longer. He is an assistant to one of the king’s advisors.” Ooh, that’s interesting. Certainly a way for rumours to reach the king’s ear anyway.

So Beliond and Legolas are about to break into a spice shop? I hope for both their sakes that this goes well. But I don’t know what the chances of that are. Oh well, at least they’re starting to compromise, I guess… ;-)

Eilian seems to be getting on fairly well. Thranduil has called the Woodland Realm Mirkwood before, I think, but I really like that Eilian is annoyed at how men see his home.

Bram does seem to know a lot about Thranduil’s council meetings, doesn’t he? Hmmn. If Thranduil uses spies, I suppose Bram probably does too. I don’t know how *men* would get far enough inside to find anything out, though. Even if they were disguised as toy-makers… You know, I had never thought about the fact that Eilian might be seen as not being fully in his father’s confidence when he was supposed to be representing the king. But he could make that work for him too because it would be less likely that he’d intentionally keep anything from Bram. It was a wise decision, I think, not to press Bram for more information. They need to build up some more trust. Still, it’s going well so far, and the queen will amuse him in the meantime.

I’m really looking forward to finding out how things go, though – and what’s happening with Sinnarn and co.?? :-)

Author Reply: I hope your father is feeling better, Dot. It seems to me you've had quite a few medical things in the last year or so. That's just draining.

I thought about the one bed thing and decided that sharing was probably more realistic. I know it seems really odd to us, but I don't think it would to them. And I'm glad you could see both sides in the argument between Beliond and Legolas. It seems to me that if you have two intelligent people, then there should be some point to both sides. The degree of control Beliond ever had over Legolas is a good question, I think. He doesn't have official command of him, but I've shown Maltanaur issuing orders to Eilian before, and Eilian obeys them. Legolas needs to see that, because he hasn't done so before.

I'm trying to decide if the fact that you think I write prostitutes well is a compliment or not! LOL. I'm like Legolas trying to decide if the dwarf had helped them or insulted them. Poor Legolas. He suffered enough. An explanation of the birds and the bees from Beliond would have killed him.

Legolas does well with the drunken men because that encounter is more in line with what he deals with as a warrior and has been trained for. He's calm about that and understands how to assess an opponent. Maldor would be proud of him!

I figured that men might know who goes to Thranduil's council meeting, but they're not going to know what went on there. That's inconceivable to me.

And I was just making notes about Sinnarn. He's bored in his room. We have to check in with him again, I think.

Alison HReviewed Chapter: 8 on 2/6/2005

I was reading this wonderful chapter again and then I checked out a couple of the reviews, which I love doing anyway--but I have a question.I am relatively new to fan fiction and I have noticed LACE appearing a few times in stories concerning elves.Could someone enlighten me? What does it mean?



Author Reply: LACE stands for "Laws and Customs of the Eldar," an essay that Tolkien wrote on elven marriage customs, sexual mores, naming and a bunch of other similar stuff. It appears in a volume of The History of Middle-Earth, a collection of materials that Tolkien's son, Christopher, put together after Tolkien died. The volume it's in is number 10, Morgoth's Ring. But there's an online version on the SoA Yahoo site. Go here:

And then look under "files."

Jay of LasgalenReviewed Chapter: 8 on 2/6/2005
The room where they were to stay had one bed and one chair? Who was going to sleep where, I wonder? (Though Beliond probably wouldn't have slept at all. He'd be guarding.)

The scene with Raena was wonderfully funny, Daw. Poor Legolas - he seems so innocent, not knowing what she was after, but it's not that surprising for an elf. I like the dwarf's not-very-helpful comment: 'This one probably could not bed your woman if he wanted to.”

Legolas puzzled over that for a moment. The Dwarf had vouched for his truthfulness, but he felt vaguely and wrongly insulted.'
*snort* Poor Legolas!

I wonder how Eilian would have reacted if she'd propositioned him?


Author Reply: Oh good. You asked about a detail I spent some time thinking about and assumed no one else would notice: the fact that the room had only one bed. I finally decided that that was more realistic that two beds. Historically, hotels in the American west sometimes rented out spaces in a bed, so a bunch of guys would wind up sleeping in one bed. I think they had a different sense of privacy and personal space than we have. And I thought that two bed would just seem too Hilton-ish.

I'm a LACE kind of writer, and I thought that Legolas's understanding of and expectations for sex would be so different than what men's were that, while he theoretically knows that prostitutes exist, it just wouldn't occur to him that that's what she was. And in that same vein, I have to reluctantly conclude that Eilian might have enjoyed a little cuddling but probably wouldn't have sex with her. (Geez. Do I sound like Bill Clinton?) I think he might be tempted. In my head, what LACE means is that elves have a rational control over their bodies that we lack, but Eilian is the most wood-elfish of my characters and, as Tolkien says, they're more dangerous and less wise. Still, I think that deep down, he's too in love with Celuwen to have sex with anyone else.

Ms. WhatsitReviewed Chapter: 8 on 2/6/2005
Heh. Poor innocent Legolas! This was a very funny chapter.

Legolas handled himself quite well, though, for someone who had no clue what was going on. And Beliond was hysterical as always.

Author Reply: Legolas did do well. I think his native courtesy let him handle himself well with the woman, and his experience as a warrior left him cool and sensible in facing the drunken men. And he's learning. :-)

thechevinReviewed Chapter: 8 on 2/6/2005
I really enjoyed this chapter of course this had something to do withthe fact thaty I knew that it would be a bad idea for Legolas to go to the inn and I was right! On this occasion my sympathies are definitely with Beliond who I am sure wishes he had grabbed Legolas by the back of the neck and run him out of there before the trouble erupted
This was so clever, Legolas wanting more experience but at every turn showing how little he understands of a man's world. Drinking ale, I am sure he can get a taste for it in say a thousand or so years, not knowing how to get a room or order food, as for his introduction to the 'lady of the night' that was a real gem did he need anymore explaining to him I think Beliond saying anymore would have been as embarrassing as having Thranduil do so.
Legolas has a point he is a warrior and eventually Beliond will have to let go of the reins a little but his keeper has the experience of what can happen to young warriors like his son and is following the king's instructions to keep his youngest child safe this is building up into a fascinating contest between the pair and I already wish Beliond had put his foot down and refused to take Legolas to the spice merchants only ill can come of it, Thranduil is going to be livid!
Thank you for giving so much pleasure through your writing

Author Reply: Legolas is in a cleft stick here. He needs to get more experience, and in a way, his ignorance shows that. But when he tries to get more experience, he runs into situations he doesn't understand and so can get into trouble. Beliond needs to let him do this stuff and watch his back while he does them. It's the only way that Legolas is going to learn.

But Beliond also has to be careful that nothing too bad happens. And his own son's fate warns him how bad that can be.

Still, I expect Legolas was glad that no further sex ed took place!

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