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Tangled Web  by daw the minstrel 26 Review(s)
AnnarielReviewed Chapter: 11 on 9/4/2007
Oh my, poor, so poor, very poor, terribly poor Sinnarn.

I knew that somebody had to be the guilty about the escape, and better him than Legolas, but it gave me grief so much... and too much laughter *lol*

Excellent chapter minstrel *winks*


Author Reply: Poor Sinnarn indeed. I was so glad to get to the end of this chapter and be able to write about Thranduil and Emmelin supporting him. He knows now that Emmelin truly loves him.

nanethReviewed Chapter: 11 on 6/26/2004
As someone that works with small children, I cannot tell you how many times I have had children brought to me by teacher's that say, "[fill in the appropriate child's name] is having a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. Would you please help them so that I can have a better day?" Therefore, your title made me LOL. I knew poor Sinnarn was in for some really bad trouble!

As a mother, this chapter really made me cringe. Poor Sinnarn!

Good job writing this chapter-maybe too good!

Author Reply: LOL. I'm not sure everyone recognized the title, Naneth, but it seemed appropriate. As a mother, the chapter made me cringe too. I could see that there was nothing any of them could do except let Sinnarn know they loved him anyway, but how awful for him. He was in bad trouble. But at least he now knows for sure that Emmelin loves him.

I'm glad you liked (?) the chapter.

Estel_Mi_OlorReviewed Chapter: 11 on 6/26/2004
That was a powerful chapter, excellent work! I especially liked the title! Diappointment is always worse to bear than anger, and perhaps the fact that none of his family was angry with him will punish Sinnarn more than a year as being a local messenger. It must be difficult for parents to realize that their children are adults, but not behaving as responsibly as they would wish. Alifrin had the right to cry, I suppose. Legolas was rather cowardly though. He may regret Sinnarn's behavior, but he should not avoid the latter like other warriors. Thranduil was magnificent though. It seemed he has finally learned after years of practice with Eilian that anger really does not acheive anything. I am impressed on the rein he had on his temper. Cheers Thranduil! I know Sinnarn will be forgiven in time, indeed he cannot be forever shunned for his fault. But I do hope Annael forgives him soon, for Emmelin's sake. And I knew she wouldn't be angry at Sinnarn! Cheers for a great chapter! (And it was Bilbo that drank Sinnarn's wine and poured more, wasn't it? That sneaky, tricksy hobbit ;) ) Keep writing!

Author Reply: Glad you liked the chapter title, Estel. I borrowed it from a children's book so it's like a little fan fic within a fan fic.

Sinnarn's family made it clear that they loved him, which probably makes their pain all the more painful for him. Legolas wasn't really avoiding him, but he had work to do and couldn't look like he was giving his nephew special treatment. I think it must be tough to have family and work so tangled together.

Thranduil really came through, didn't he? True he had a whole day to cool off, but he drew on all his wisdom to help his grandson.

Actually, I think Bilbo kept refilling their glasses and letting them drink it. Tricksy hobbit indeed!

French PonyReviewed Chapter: 11 on 6/26/2004
Even if you hadn't mentioned it before, I would have known you were a mom just from reading this. You really pulled out all the stops on this one, oh yes. Poor old Sinnarn got treated to the full palette of punishment. The blinding headache. The Sidelong-Glare. The Mom-Cries-At-The-Sight-Of-You. The Dad's-So-Disappointed-In-You (I-Thought-You-Were-An-Adult Variation). The Friends-Look-Nervous-On-Your-Behalf. And to Todith falls the ultimate, cherry on top, principal's office classic, Is-It-Possible-You-Could-Tell-Me-What-You-Were-Thinking. And the last, crowning touch, Stand-In-The-Corner-And-Think-About-Your-Behavior.

Don't tell me you didn't have fun writing all that.

Man, Sinnarn would probably have jumped at the chance to spend a few days in a U.S. Army stockade after that day. Ah, well. It seems Thranduil has had time to cool off from Angry King Thranduil to Doting Zayde Thranduil, and Emmelin still likes him, so there is first aid for Sinnarn's bruised, trampled ego.

Author Reply: Actually, I found it very painful to write all that! It made me squirm. I was a really soft touch as a mother. I am told that my graduate students are afraid of me, but my kid never was. (Maybe I'm like Thranduil!)

I was relieved when I got to write about Thranduil and Emmelin because by that time Sinnarn was so bruised and down. He needed Grandfather to be wise and Emmelin to love him anyway.

Elena TirielReviewed Chapter: 11 on 6/26/2004
Ah, Daw, you are giving me the overwhelming urge to say (*all together now! On the count of three -- one, two, three...*): Poor Sinnarn!

What a great chapter! I will now enjoy reading The Hobbit even more, now that I know the *real* story!

My favorite part: "apparently Nithron had no intention of abandoning him. Sinnarn blinked rapidly and looked at his blurring hands."

Well, Sinnarn wasn't the only one blinking rapidly by the end of this chapter!

Thanks, Daw! Can't wait to see what happens next...

- Barbara

Author Reply: I know. It's hard to think of anything more appropriate to say, isn't it? I say it myself. :-)

This story has been interesting to write because readers know what's going to happen as well as I do, and know what HAS happened better than the characters do. So I thought there might not be much suspense and people would lose interest, but they seem to like seeing this story from a different POV. Thank goodness.

I was so glad to be able to write about Emmelin at the end. Sinnarn needed unconditional love because, you know, poor Sinnarn!

Ms. WhatsitReviewed Chapter: 11 on 6/25/2004
You know, daw, I *cringed* when I read the title of this chapter in my inbox. In fact, for a moment I was all "Maybe I shouldn't read this..." But of course curiosity won out :).

The most terrible part of all of this is that Sinnarn really and truly thought he had drunk only one cup--but obviously that wasn't the case--and now he looks like a *liar* to Todith in addition to looking like a flake.

Alfirin is very, very wise to stay in the "mother" role and not reprimand him for professional mistakes. She, almost alone out of his entire family, has the luxury of just being a mother without any public role of command attached to her relationship with him. It's good that she didn't screw that up.

Ithilden did pretty well, too, in delegating the authority to deal with Sinnarn to Todith and making it clear that he would react to this mishap as a father and not a troop commander. Still, I can definitely see why Sinnarn wishes that Ithilden would just stay a troop commander. It's easier, less personal and less messy to disappoint a boss than a parent.

They all handled it well, in fact. There was some vintage Thranduil action going on there--disapproving, gentle, and making Sinnarn feel much worse than if he had just screamed at him, and yet saying things that Sinnarn really needed to hear. And Legolas did well too--intervening when there were facts that might help Sinnarn, but doing no more than that.

And Emmelin's in loooovve. *grin* That ending was great. Sinnarn needed that.

And I have a short list of characters I think are going to die in the Battle of the Five Armies. We'll see how right I am after you write that :).

Author Reply: LOL. The title is actually borrowed from a children's book: "Alexander's Terrible, etc." But Sinnarn's day was at least as bad, I'm afraid.

It would be really awful to tell the truth as you know it and just come out worse because now you look like a liar too.

But I did think the family handled it well, like the wise elves they are. They love him and they let him know, although Ithilden then had to take off his father hat and put on his commander one once Sinnarn was in his office. That must have been hard for him as well as Sinnarn.

I was relieved when I got to the part of this chapter where I got to write about Thranduil and Emmelin because they were both very good to him, and now he knows that Emmelin loves him and will do so through thick and thin. :-)

DotReviewed Chapter: 11 on 6/25/2004
Great chapter title! You had me feeling sorry for Sinnarn before I even reached the first line.

Well, I suppose it could have been worse… Yeah, the people who mean the most to him are bitterly disappointed in him but at least he can be in no doubt that they love him.

I thought the whole part with Sinnarn waking up was done so well. I just cringed as bit by bit things come back to him. It’s interesting that he knows what other warriors will think because he’s seen it happen before to other people and was very likely one of those who judged them by their actions. Of course, it would have been bad enough to merely have been drinking but for the Dwarves to escape during his watch just makes things worse than he’d probably have ever thought possible.

It looks like Ithilden hasn’t even been to bed. I think Sinnarn is right that the relationship between father and child is so much more complicated than officer and warrior. Ithilden still sounds utterly horrified that his son could have behaved so irresponsibly. More than that, he seems genuinely upset. I’d imagine his tendency to blame himself isn’t helping matters either. Plus, he’s probably had to deal with Alfirin all night and if she’s anything like every other mother she’s probably the only one besides Sinnarn himself who is worried about how others will treat him now. I’m glad she kissed him. He needs her support.

Thank heavens for Nithron and Amdir. How awful for Sinnarn to have everyone avoid sitting next to him. And Annael! What he must think of the elf his daughter likely wants to marry… Still, he could have shown a teeny bit more support towards his friend’s nephew. Legolas himself must indeed have felt very awkward. What a horrible position to be in. I can see that Todith must be having a hard time figuring out what happened. It must sound completely bizarre that Sinnarn was drunk on duty. I notice nobody believes this “one cup” business. At least Galion backed up what he claims – it’s just a pity that particular elf’s reputation isn’t up to much. Actually, I wouldn’t like to be Todith having to tell Ithilden that he doesn’t trust his son. At least Ithilden doesn’t seem to have caused any bother. Local messenger sounds beyond humiliating. I don’t blame Sinnarn for wanting to flee to the woods. But he has such a commendable sense of responsibility to stay put. And I see he’s inherited the pessimistic (or realistic) tendencies of his family too.

Poor Calith seems to get all the trouble-makers to deal with. What did he ever do, I wonder. I’m beginning to think that even he misbehaved once, was sent to Ithilden’s office to do some paperwork and never, ever left. I must say, having Sinnarn stand to attention is just plain mean. He’ll go completely mad. To have Tinar question his wisdom must have been unbearable. I don’t know how someone hasn’t thrown one of those Oliphant-shaped paperweights at his head by now.

As bad as it was for Sinnarn to know that his father was next door, it must have been very difficult too for Ithilden to know that his son was outside, no matter how angry or upset he still is.

I bet it was no accident that Thranduil was in that garden. I admit I was thrilled by Thranduil’s reaction. It seems everyone has made a huge effort to only play particular roles in dealing with Sinnarn and not cross over – and Thranduil is very much the grandfather here. He has always handled Legolas in much the same way if he felt that his son was truly sorry, I think, as Sinnarn most certainly is here – Thranduil lets him know that he did make a serious mistake but encourages him to accept it, learn from it and move on. How wise he is when he doesn’t lose his temper! I’d say he only would have been very angry with Sinnarn if he showed little remorse. Anyway, Thranduil is probably half glad those Dwarves are gone. I wonder if Legolas has given up the search for young Hobbit?

Ah, Emmelin. From her reaction it does sound as though she’s heard plenty on the topic of Sinnarn but I’m so, so glad she’s supportive of him. It actually seems as though the incident has made her realise how much she loves him. But then, maybe she thinks that he was so depressed at not being able to dance with her that he drank himself into a stupor;-)

Poor Sinnarn (again). I hope things improve for him. I’ve been worried about him from the start of this story because of that dream Ithilden once had. But we’ll see… There’s plenty more excitement in store, I suppose:-)

Author Reply: The chapter title is borrowed from a children's book, "Alexander's Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day." I've always liked the sound of that and I think Sinnarn's day was far worse than Alexander's.

I thought that Ithilden would probably have been up all night directing the search for the Dwarves, and also, as you say, dealing with Alfirin. And I figure, if Thranduil exploded at anyone, it was Ithilden, who was, after all, ultimately in charge. Poor guy. He's been home about a week and may think that Dol Guldur looks cosy about now.

And yeah, I'm a mother too, and I would be worried sick about how mean everyone was going to be to my baby, even as I wanted to kill the baby for behaving so badly.

I like your theory about Calith! Actually, as an OC, he's growing on me. He seems like one of those people that a troop commander wouldn't be able to do without. I edit a journal and my editorial assistant is like that. If she ever quits, we're just going to have to close down.

It is awfully hard to picture what the day must have been like for Ithilden too, knowing that Sinnarn was there and was unhappy. After all, I assume there's part of Ithilden that still sees Sinnarn as his little boy, who should be protected.

Thranduil was great! He was, indeed, very grandfatherly in the best sense, bringing ages of wisdom to bear and making it clear that he loved Sinnarn. And Emmelin--I was so glad when she showed up. At least the last part of the chapter was more pleasant to write. He knows that she truly loves him now.

White WolfReviewed Chapter: 11 on 6/25/2004
Love the chapter title. How humiliating for Sinnarn to be reduced to a local messenger. I think having his parents disappointed in him was indeed worse than getting a tongue lashing would have been. I'm glad that Thranduil dealt with him with compassion, yet didn't interfere with his punishment.

Author Reply: As you probably know, the chapter title imitates one from a children's book, so it's sort of like a fanfic within a fanfic. :-)

Sinnarn must feel like something stuck on the bottom of someone's shoe. Even Tinar got to rip on him. Thank goodness for Thranduil and Emmelin.

tigerlily713Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 6/25/2004
Love the title! Great chapter! I enjoyed the delicate balance of emotion between Thranduil and his grandson. Too bad Legolas couldn't make more fo a point out of the fact the Galion and Sinnarn's stories matched up. Anyway, I look forward to more. Lily

Author Reply: Do you know the children's book the title came from Lily? I always thought it was very funny, and Sinnarn's day was at least as bad as Alexander's. Thranduil showed his age and wisdom there, I think. He offered advice and love, without minimizing what had happened, and I think Sinnarn gained from that. It does seem to be a pity that no one believes Galion about the drink either.

BodkinReviewed Chapter: 11 on 6/25/2004
I can't remember where I read it, but I believe standing to attention all day is indeed almost impossible - you often see Guardsmen fainting at big events when they have to stand motionless and tense for any length of time. Also, I believe that it is much more difficult when you are doing it on your own, rather than in a parade. He might have to 'stand easy'. It's nearly as nasty, but probably more sustainable. Though, of course, as an elf, he's tough.

I think you should go through the reviews and count up the number of times the words 'poor Sinnarn' have been written.

He is visibly maturing - I loved the way he thought of running and then you could see him steeling his backbone as he reflected that Sauron hadn't gone and it was his duty to serve the realm, so he would have to endure the humiliation. But he needed his grandfather's wisdom and Emmelin's unconditional love. He'll survive - I hope.

(When Ithilden and Alfirin were having their happy moment, I thought it would be really rather a good idea if they and Eilian and Celuwen just happened to beget elflings on the same night - first cousins and virtual twins! Alfirin needs another elfling!)

Author Reply: LOL. I keep saying "poor Sinnarn" myself. But you're right: he's maturing. Which goes to show you that Thranduil is right too: it's how Sinnarn deals with the consequences that will show what he's made of and make him stronger.

Re two elflings at once: Have you been talking to Nilmandra? She has suggested that too. The last I heard though, her new puppy was keeping her up all night and she was referring to him as "devil baby" so her enthusiasm for babies may have lessened a little!

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