6336
· 26 August 2011
· Chapter 103: The Making of the Great Lights and Other Matters
Ah, something of a bridging chapter, Ingwion is being encouraged to patience, Olwe to understand that the Valar are as deeply greived about the events at Alqalonde as he is, a little bit of encouragement for Earwen, hang in there Honey, he will be back soon and then you can give him what for!
Yes, that will take some creative mathmatics to place the sun and the moon in their respective positions but they seem to have done a pretty good job of it, even if they did get the spin on Arda wrong, be interesting to see how they correct that!
Thankyou for the little interlude with Nienna and Namo, most people seem to forget that one of Namos roles, and I think his favorite, is that of Consoler. I think Nienna will enjoy her time in Mandos playing with the faer of those elves who are on their way to healing. Do you have any plans for a fic on how the first elf to be Reborn was? (I know, I know, as if you need another Bunny! Stick it in the hutch and I will send you some virtual carrots to feed it!)
Once again, thankyou,
Huggs,
Lynda
Author's reply
Hi Lynda. Yes, we're coming to the point where all the threads begin to come together for real, hence this bridging chapter.
I'm not even going to touch the way in which the Valar 'correct' the earth's rotation. That's too much for me to handle. Let us just allow that somehow they managed without causing people too much trouble and leave it at that. *grin*
I'm glad you liked the interlude between Námo and Nienna. Thank you for the idea. I enjoyed writing this scene. It gave me a chance to write a 'tender moment' between these two.
At this point I don't have any plans to write about the first Reborn Elf, though you never know. My Muse can be pretty tricky about these things. At any rate, I'll stick it into the hutch and we'll see. *grin*
Thanks for reading and reviewing. I really appreciate it.
Fantasia
· 26 August 2011
· Chapter 103: The Making of the Great Lights and Other Matters
Wow Fiondil, thanks for the lesson, really. My only question is that even if the Moon creates her own light, she needs the Sun to feed her with photons.
I know that Tolkin has the Moon as a male Maia but I keep calling the Moon as female, first because in my language the name is female, Luna, and second, because Artemis, Diana and Selene.
I remember Varda vow of having Arien as the guarding of the Sun.
If I'm not reading too much, the Valars at some point did change the rotation of the Earth, that was after the last glacier? Or after the Diluvium?
I'm last, but the most important, so sad about Ingalaurë's fate, Manwe was really affected. I wish that they can change the future...(I will ask Namo to tell you to rewrite al your stories and save him :))
Author's reply
Hi Fantasia. As Brian Swimme points out in the passage quoted, if the Sun goes out, the Moon will go dark as well, so yes, the Moon does need the Sun to feed her photons, but the photons that we see leaving the Moon are not the same photons that the Sun sent; they were entirely created by the Moon.
And I think in nearly every language, the Moon is feminine and the Sun is masculine. However, Tolkien says that Elves and Hobbits reverse the genders (the implication being that it is Men who do not). Yet, we have English nursery rhymes about the "Man in the Moon", never about a "Maid in the Moon" so it goes both ways.
The change in the rotation of the Earth occurred very early in the First Age according to the Silmarillon. How they accomplished it, I have no idea, but if combining myth with science, some things have to be taken on faith.
I wish I could rewrite Ingalaurë's fate, but alas, I cannot. I tried desperately to find a way to avoid it, but the characters all acted in a particular way and there was nothing I could do about it. Yet, in a manner, his death will save him: save him from Ingoldo's poison, save him from his doubts about his worth, save him from his resentment of being the second twin. One has to look at it in that light to see that death was probably the best thing that could've happened to him.
Anyway, thanks for reading and reviewing. I really appreciate it.
Rhyselle
· 26 August 2011
· Chapter 103: The Making of the Great Lights and Other Matters
I really liked this chapter. Part of me wants to swat Ingwion for his attitude, despite knowing where it comes from. Also, despite knowing that Inglaure's days are numbered from having read previous works; it still hurts to know that something is going to send him to Mandos. I like to think that there is a greater purpose in all of this, though, and that we might one day see what it is.
The discussion between the Valar about what to do about Arafinwe made it possible to connect the two story threads together in regards to time passing, and the subsequent discussion about the last flower and fruit of the Trees was such a nice connection back to Wars of the Valar.
I especially loved Namo's comforting of Nienna. The idea of the first of the Children to have come to him now being awake and playing made me smile, and I'm sure that will help cheer up Nienna. :)
As always, an enjoyable read! Thank you!
Author's reply
Hi Ryselle. Foreknowledge does hurt and yet we know that it works out at the end. I think, if nothing else, death will cure Ingalaurë of his resentment towards his brother for being the firstborn twin. Ingoldo's poison will have been extracted from him and he will be content to be the secondborn and not the heir.
And I try to connect the various threads of the stories once in a while to give readers an idea of chronology as well as a reminder that things are going on all the time but we only see parts of these stories instead of the whole, yet they are all coming together to a central point, as we will see fairly soon.
And with Lynda's request about Námo comforting Nienna, it gave me the opportunity to write a 'tender moment' among the Valar, which I don't get to do to often. *grin*
Glad you enjoyed this chapter, Rhyselle. Thanks for letting me know. I appreciate it.
obsidianj
· 23 August 2011
· Chapter 102: An Audience with Lord Manwë
Manwe is not being very consistent. On the one hand he preaches growing up and becoming more mature, and then he constantly addresses the elves as 'child'. Which is pretty much the most infuriating address you can have for an adolescent. What does Manwe want? Clearly for him the elves are children and I have the feeling he doesn't want them too grown up.
Olwe's demand came a bit unexpected, but understandable. This crusade to have the elves grow up can be very uncomfortable for the Valar.
Author's reply
Hi obsidianj. As Vorondil explained in Elf, Interrupted, Aldundil and Ingwion (when they are on their camping trip to the mysterious valley of the waterfalls) the Valar using the term 'child' is not meant to be perjorative, but as a reminder that the any Elda with whom they interact is indeed "Eruhin", a Child of Eru, so 'child' becomes more a title than anything else. But you are correct that it could be interpreted (or misinterpreted) as being a type of insult.
Thanks for reading and reviewing. I appreciate it very much.
Larner
· 23 August 2011
· Chapter 102: An Audience with Lord Manwë
A bit of an awakening for Ingwion to see that Olwe is as upset in his own way with the Valar as is he. Now--to wait for the promised help.
Author's reply
Indeed, Larner. Ingwion has been rather selfish, thinking he's the only one in pain. Seeing Olwe taking the Valar to task has been an eye-opener for him. As for the promised help, that will soon come. Thanks for reading and reviewing.
Larner
· 23 August 2011
· Chapter 101: The Lindaran in Valmar
Ah, a temper tantrum! Well, he has definitely had a day of it! Time to be by himself for a bit, I suspect.
Author's reply
Ingwion certainly has had a hard time of it lately and things are beginning to crash in on him. He does need to take a deep breath and regain his equilibrium. Thanks for reading and reviewing, Larner, I appreciate you taking the time to do so.
Sitara
· 23 August 2011
· Chapter 70: The Road North
I’m afraid I’m not done yet with Olwë. Granted, I’m not the most appropriate person to deal with him but someone really has to do it and tell him a couple of very ugly truths extracted from his very own words and conduct. And the Valar would be next…
I deeply regret Findekáno’s involvement in the affair of Kinslaying. As I regret Nolofinwë’s. They had no place in this and surely they had no need to have that thrown in their faces by some over-zealous Sindar people, once Middle-earth reached and their kingdom established. However, I’m glad to see that, despite of this tragic episode, Findekáno grew to be a most noble and heroic ruler thanks to whom the kingdoms in Middle-earth would enjoy their times of peace and flourishing. Which I cannot say about the sweet man-maiden, who grew to be …even more opportunistic than she already is. And that’s definitely saying something! “lol” I should refrain from further comments regarding her prowess in sword fighting and other little things concerning the future Lady of the Light, as she’s only a minor character at best, and move on with the story. “grin”
I finally understood how the Noldor managed to Araman as Tolkien stated there weren’t enough ships for all of them. A strenuous undertaking, as they had only the starlight to go by. And the dreadful Doomsman of Arda has just appeared to bid them his best wishes. What was with these people and their propensity to pop up exactly when the would-be listeners were ready to step out the house and slam the door behind them?
Author's reply
Hi Sitara. Well, Findecano did eventually grow up and learned from this experience which helped make him the king that he became. Nolofinwe has my pity for he truly did not want to be there, but he can see no honorable way out of his dilemma.
As for Namo showing up when he does, well, it does make good copy. *grin*
Thanks for reading and reviewing.
Larner
· 23 August 2011
· Chapter 100: On to Eldamas
At least they now have allies--and quite royal ones at that. And just maybe a particular maiden is there as well? At least we now know that Olwe has found an occasion on which to use the royal townhouse.
Author's reply
Unfortunately Olwen is not with them, which I'm sure disappointed Ingwion. *grin* At any rate, yes, this is one occasion on which Olwe found to use the royal townhouse and we'll even see why Lindarion hates the place. Thanks for reading and reviewing, Larner. I appreciate it.
ninqwestilmen
· 23 August 2011
· Chapter 102: An Audience with Lord Manwë
Olwe's demand was very unexpected, but I kinda agree with him. As you say, the Teler were the first to use physical force, and the mariners were able to stand up to the attack until Fingon showed up... but they were overcome and it was in desperate times that Olwe begged aid of the Valar. That doesn't sound like they did nothing but wring their hands and wait for the Valar to show up and rescue them (unlike Ingwion who, I think, went straight to them). And considering that the Valar thought the elves to be pampered, how could they expect them to successfully cope with tough love during the biggest crisis they had ever seen? Am waiting for Eru to have a word with them...
I don't see why the Valar aren't willing to talk it over with Olwe right now, what else are they doing besides having Ingwion wait, (I'm assuming that Arafinwe hasn't burnt down the cottage yet)... well maybe they are giving Olwe time to cool down. Will be interesting to see what is said when the issue is brought up again, what will they offer as reparation, or will they offer anything at all... they could always use the words they spoke when the host of the Noldor set out as an excuse - no aid to the Noldor, but no hindrance either... Olwe will probably not be happy to hear that... well anyway, it will be an interesting conversation, but I'm guessing it will be a while before we get to it.
Did I tell you I love this kind of confrontation stuff, as you can see you have me all wound up :) Very interesting chapter!
Author's reply
Hi Ninqwestilmen. One reason why the Valar don't discuss Olwe's demand for reparation at this time is that it would make this story even longer than it is. *LOL!* We won't actually see their disucssion of the issue in this story, though we can assume from "Elf, Interrupted" that some kind of resolution was reached between the Valar and the Olwe so that they are again on good terms. I'm glad you love this kind of confrontation stuff and that you found this to be a very interesting chapter. Thanks for letting me know. I really appreciate it.
Larner
· 22 August 2011
· Chapter 99: Allies Unlooked-for
At least they have good warning and a good plan to follow. Wonderful.
Author's reply
Yes, they do, Larner, and we'll see how it works out. Thanks for reading and reviewing.
6336
· 22 August 2011
· Chapter 102: An Audience with Lord Manwë
Do you, by chance, mean a certain Noldoran who has been getting a crash course in ruling?
I know, I know, wait till Friday!
Huggs,
Lynda
Author's reply
You'll find out soon enough, I promise. *grin* Hugs back.
Tkid
· 22 August 2011
· Chapter 102: An Audience with Lord Manwë
This is the cynic in me coming out, but I would haul my tail to the end of the hallway and intercept Ingwion pronto. The Valar have watched the Noldo spin themselves into a frenzy, see Olwe and his people slaughtered and now Ingwion is in a fury? They've got two of the major families in strife, they do not need the third family to go the same way.
But I do wonder what happened with Findarato? He seemed to go into some beserk frenzy every time he went near his kin. I like how he seems very young in this series, more honed during his judgement, and very mellow afterwards. It is a nice progression of his character.
If Feanaro ever comes out of Mandos, I'd like to see the Noldo deal with the state they worked themselves into and the harm it did to so many.
Author's reply
Hi Tkid. Well, as you saw, Orome did intercept Ingwion and give him the riot act. He still has some growing up to do.
I'm glad you like how I have deal with Findarato and the way he has progressed over the centuries through the various series. No one, not even an Elf, can remain the same; you either grow or you stagnate. As for Feanaro, I don't think I even want to contemplate that scene. *grin*
Thanks for reading and reviewing. I appreciate it.
An excellent philosophical and moral debate here, and one that is hitting close to home in my life at the moment.
One of the NONs' arguments always seems to be, "But I wouldn't do that!" as if what they would or wouldn't do in any specific circumstance should guide everyone's behavior. And several of them are refusing to accept that Damien and Jason forgave Jessie for agreeing to the lying stories fed him first by the police and later the prosecutors. A few days before they were released, one new NON asked us what we thought that Jason and Damien would do if they ever had the chance to be physically in Jessie's presence. When told that they indicated a LONG time ago they had already forgiven him, and understood just why he did what he did, and that Jason had explained just how the police and prosecutors tried to pressure him to do the same to sell out Damien, the NON refused to believe anyone had such an emotionally mature reaction. "But if it were me," he said, "I'd want to beat him within an inch of his life."
It's the mark of a small man, I've found, that he looks for the same reactions in others he himself has, and that he ascribes to others the same motivations and choices he has and is inclined to know and make.
Author's reply
Very true, Larner. Jesus said to love your enemies, and forgive them. I think it's even harder to forgive one's friends, or even acquaintenances, but it is the higher road. That Damien and Jason understand what Jesse suffered and are willing to forgive him for it speaks well for them both and we can all learn from their example. The NON who feels they should "beat him within an inch of his life" has no clue and he is indeed small-minded. And, as Gandalf said, Evil is incapable of imagining Good doing anything contrary to what Evil would do in the same circumstances (or something to that effect).
Anyway, thanks for reading and reviewing. I'm glad you found the debate appropriate for our times; it was meant to be.
Larner
· 22 August 2011
· Chapter 97: Who Watches the Watcher?
Oh, a most fitting punishment indeed, to be set back to the same task, but this time to be unable to interfere at all. Now, to catch up!
Author's reply
Very fitting, indeed, Larner. We'll see how well Nornoros handles his charge. It will not be easy, that's for sure. Thanks for reading and reviewing.
Sunny
· 22 August 2011
· Chapter 102: An Audience with Lord Manwë
Having the Valar go cold turkey on the Guiding-the-Children thing seems to be rather damaging to their relationship with the Elves. Yes, it is the best thing, and while their relationship will be the better for it eventually, I think it will be quite a long while before the Valar regain the trust of those who have been most badly affected by the things that happened during the Darkening. Like Ingwion. I have a suspicion that he is not going to entirely trust the Valar again until EI.
So Oromë is going to join Ingwion in the search for Ingwë? I suppose this is another of Oromë's Hunts, like what we saw in EI? Hopefully Oromë's presence will at least put a patch on the badly strained relationship between Ingwion and the Valar.
Author's reply
Hi Sunny. I don't think there is ever a good time for 'tough love'; but I think the Valar are using all that has happened as the excuse they need to pull back and let the Children grow up on their own. It's not easy and it ain't pretty, but there you have it.
Ingwion was a long time coming to trust the Valar. We don't really see much of him in EI to see how his mistrust and cyncism has played itself over the centuries but we get a hint of it when Glorfindel goes missing. The veneer of civility he has kept before the Valar slips and we know what results of his confrontation with Manwë. I think Oromë joining in the search for Ingwë (and it is indeed one of his Hunts as we will see) does help ease the strain between Ingwion and the Valar but the full healing is a long way off.
Thanks for reading and reviewing. I appreciate it very much.
Fantasia
· 22 August 2011
· Chapter 102: An Audience with Lord Manwë
I know that the Valars are right, the Elves need to take their responsibilities, but it was a bad time to start with. Everybody made mistakes in this sad affair, from the Valars to the last elf. I liked Namo's observation, everybody killed that day, and there is always different POV in every situation.
Olwe is really a very brave elf. I'm not sure if reparation from the Noldors is necessary, the ones that stayed behind are really innocent, why they should pay for the ones that left? And those ones, no doubt, will pay dearly their sins
My heart goes to Ingwion, he might be selfish, spoiled, but at the end his fears for his Father overrule everything, his question if he was alive was really emotional.
Author's reply
Hi Fantasia. It's always bad timing no matter what is going on. LOL! That's just the way life is, as I'm sure many can testify.
Olwe is indeed brave and it's not so much that he is demanding reparation from the Noldor so much as Arafinwe and those who returned with him feel they owe the Teleri some kind of compensation, even if it's just to help rebuild what was destroyed.
Ingwion still has some growing up to do, but his heart is in the right place.
Thanks for reading and reviewing. I really appreciate it.
6336
· 22 August 2011
· Chapter 102: An Audience with Lord Manwë
Well. that was a surprise, to find that the Taleriwere in fact the First Kinslayers and not the Noldor! I can understand how it could happen though.
I can see how Olwe could be asking for Reparations from the Valar but I can see the Valar's point of view, though their timeing was lousy! But then the Valar have a lot of growing up to do too!
At least Ingwion is willing to listen to Manwe and is, also, willing to follow his advice. Just who is going to come to him?
Interesting twist to this tale.
Huggs,
Lynda
Author's reply
Hi Lynda. Yes, a careful reading of the Silmarillion shows that while Feanor and the Noldor attempted to take over the ships, the Teleri were the ones to first kill by sending the Noldor into the drink to drown. Olwe isn't pulling any punches here and he means for a lot of people to pay up for what happened to him and his kingdom. And, yes, Ingwion is at last willing to listen and in doing so obey (the original meaning of the verb). As to who is coming... can you not guess? *grin*
Thanks for reading and reviewing. I really appreciate it.
Laikwalâssê
· 22 August 2011
· Chapter 102: An Audience with Lord Manwë
hurra! finally someone who has the nerve to adress the Valar. Even if I understand their reason not to help they could have at least warned the Teleri in some way. When I want my child to grew up and stand on his own does not mean I let it get killed. Liked this chapter very much - thank you. Lai
Author's reply
Olwe definitely has a lot of courage and believes himself to have the high moral ground in this debate. Eventually he and the Valar will come to a mutual understanding, as is evident in my other stories, especially "Elf, Interrupted". I'm glad you enjoyed this chapter, Lai. Thanks for letting me know. I really appreciate it.
obsidianj
· 21 August 2011
· Chapter 101: The Lindaran in Valmar
Ouch! It seems Ingwion finally snapped. He will probably rue this day. The valar still have something to learn about the "children". They can't have it both ways wanting them to be "adults" and then commanding them around like children again. I think they lost Ingwion's respect and it will take time to mend fences.
Author's reply
Ingwion has certainly lost any trust in the Valar that he might have had, obsidianj. We'll see in the next chapter just how things work out and what happens at the audience with the Valar. There are some unexpected surprises in store for everyone, even the Valar. *grin* Thanks for reading and reviewing. I appreciate it very much.
obsidianj
· 21 August 2011
· Chapter 100: On to Eldamas
Hmm, the hunting lodge is tempting and I have the feeling that they might find Ingwe there, but also a host of other people they probably don't want to find at the same time. Ingwion needs some more allies to deal with this mess. But what is Olwe doing in Eldamas at this time? But I think Ingwion welcomes the support (I hope it is support), and doesn't ask why when something goes right for a change.
Author's reply
Hi obsidianj. The hunting lodge is a logical choice and they may eventually look into it, but right now getting to Eldamas is the important thing. As for what Olwë is doing there, that will be revealed in the next chapter. Thanks for reading and reviewing. I appreciate it.
obsidianj
· 20 August 2011
· Chapter 99: Allies Unlooked-for
So, Ingoldo still has the upper hand in this one, hence the search. I hope they can hide long enough. I have the feeling that Ingalaure's move to stop Ingoldo comes just at the right time. On the other hand, these guards got their orders a while ago. As long as they don't get different orders they will search. This game of hide and seek better work.
Author's reply
Hi obsidianj. At this point in time (and we've been going back and forth) Ingoldo still rules in Vanyamar. Ingalaurë has not yet taken over. In the meantime, Ignwion and his friends are still in danger of being discovered. We'll see how they fare in the next chapter. Thanks for reading and reviewing. I appreciate it.
galathil
· 20 August 2011
· Chapter 101: The Lindaran in Valmar
I am glad that Ingwion and the others made to Olwe safely.Though I would love to know where the three missimg elves are,I am trying to figure that one for myself but Im not having much luck.(any hints?)As for Ingwion ingoring Manwe summons oh boy! Can't wait for the next chapter.LOL Galthil
Author's reply
Hi Galathil. I'm afraid I can't give out any hints. I'm sure many readers have their own theories as to where Ingwë, Elindis and Indil are, although here, no one (except the Valar) are even aware that the ellith are missing, only that Ingwë is. Anyway, we'll see in the next chapter how the audience with the Valar turns out and what follows from it. Thanks for reading and reviewing. I really appreciate it.
obsidianj
· 20 August 2011
· Chapter 97: Who Watches the Watcher?
So, Nornoros got a reprimand, but the insidious nature of his punishment, I think becomes clear in the events to follow. I don't think he will interfere again. That's something that couldn't be said if Manwe sets someone else to watch Ingalaure. Smart move. Now Ingalaure's fate is sealed. If Nornoros hadn't acted prematurely...
This chapter makes the fine line the Valar are walking even more clear and explains some of the unexplainable. Very difficult situation all around.
Author's reply
Hi obsidianj. That's a very astute observation you have about Nornoros punishment and as we approach that time in which Ingalaurë meets his doom, we will see how that plays out. I'm glad that this chapter has shown you how fine a line the Valar are walking. It is a very difficult situation all around. Thanks for taking the time to read and review. I appreciate it very much.
Laikwalâssê
· 19 August 2011
· Chapter 101: The Lindaran in Valmar
poor Ingwion. I can really understand his reaction and sypathizse with him.The Valar could have helped in one way or the other, even if only with information here or there. You cannot push someone over his limit and then expect him to react calm. I´m looking forward how the Valar will react and what further terrible news will be revealed. Gripping chapter. Thank you Lai
Author's reply
Hi Lai. Glad you found this a gripping chapter. Thanks for letting me know. We'll see how the audience with the Valar works out and what comes of it in the next chapter. Thanks for reading and reviewing.
Fantasia
· 19 August 2011
· Chapter 101: The Lindaran in Valmar
Poor Ingwion. I don't blame him, I think that uncer the circumstances I would react the same.
Falmaron is Olwe son, isn't? Olwe seems so composed about his death, so regal. I remember that in EI2 he wasn't so calm. I have to re-read the tale.
Well, it is time for all of them get together and resolve some of the issues.
Waiting for Monday....
Author's reply
Hi Fantasia. It's hard to blame Ingwion at this point, but he's only making things hard for himself. And yes, Falmaron is Olwe's son. Enough time has passed since his death that Olwe can remain composed. And the different threads of this story are finally coming together as we will shortly see.