Sitara
· 6 September 2010
· Chapter 1: Seeds of Darkness Sown
Well, of course, you’re right and Námo isn’t the only Vala responsible for that legal abuse, if I could call it so. Only that he’ll be the first to suffer the consequences because he is the Doomsman of Arda and he’ll have to judge dead Elves on a daily basis. Because of their uninspired action, from now on, Fëanáro will have both the capacity and the reasons to defy Námo in his face, in his own demesne, and the poor Lord of Mandos will find himself removed from his place as Doomsman and placed in the dock! “grin” Lovely.
But I was about to ask about Elwë and something the Elder King said about his kingdom from Beleriand. “Would ye take from him what was never yours to begin with?" Huh? What was never theirs? I mean, Thingol would have rights to rule in Middle-earth and the rest of the Eldar wouldn’t have them? I should keep to myself my opinions about Sindar and Teleri kings so I would ask only what was trying Manwë to say, if you don’t mind.
One last thing that I just have to say. Firstly, I should say that I don’t know why I have such a soft spot for Nolofinwë of all people. But I’ve always asked myself why he didn’t get to receive a slap on his wrist for provoking Fëanáro into drawing his sword and threatening him. He never tried to replace his half-brother in their father’s eyes, is it? To me it seems that it was exactly what he kind of did. Furthermore, taking into account exactly when and where Nolofinwë decided to become Finwënolofinwë, I’m getting increasingly suspicious. “grin”
Author's reply
Well, I doubt even Fëanáro will ever call Námo to the dock, Sitara, though it certainly is an interesting plot bunny. *grin*
Anyway, to answer your question: Manwë is merely pointing out the fact that Fëanáro has no claim to any lands in Middle-earth because a) his atar renounced any such claims when he *willingly* moved to Aman and b) Fëanáro himself was born in Aman and not in Beleriand, therefore, if he were to take up his supposed inheritance, he would have to usurp Elwë to do so since Elwë rules the Elves of Beleriand.
Of course, we know that the Noldor did set up kingdoms in areas of Beleriand where few of the Sindar and Nandor resided, but Manwë's point (and Námo's) is that Fëanáro was never 'robbed' of his inheritance, because his inheritance lies in Aman and not Beleriand.
As for Ñolofinwë, the provocation was only in Fëanáro's mind, at least that is how I've read the Silmarillion, though I imagine there are other equally plausible interpretations in which the second son of Finwë was more devious than he seems. *grin*
Sitara
· 4 September 2010
· Chapter 1: Seeds of Darkness Sown
“Not thralls”, isn’t it? Let us see how much truth is hiding behind those words. On the other hand, it looks like I’ve finally got the chance to get off my chest a few things I’m still keeping bottled up regarding this infamous trial and I thank you for this. "lol" Hopefully it won’t be too bad. Simply put, in my opinion, the trial was as much as unlawful as the deed that was to be judged itself and Fëanáro should have never shown up or carried that sentence. “ducking flying tomatos” Let me try to give an explanation as to why I think this to be the truth not merely my perception.
At that moment, the Noldor had a ruling king, the deed had occurred on Noldorin grounds and the two people involved were subjects of the Noldorán. Well, where is then the trial that should have been held by Finwë? What rights had the Valar to take judgment out of the Noldorán’s hands in regard to one of the Noldor , said Noldo without being tried first by his own king? None. You may say that the Valar had the right to judge Fëanáro, as they were ruling over Valinor and therefore having the right to judge anyone dwelling within their borders. True. But one does not go to the High Court without being first judged by the county court or whatever, something like a local court.
Only if Finwë had judged Fëanáro and the Valar had found his judgment lacking, only then they would have had the right to do what they did, not before. They interfered into a Noldorin private affair and thus they gave a strong flavor of truth to Melkor’s lie. Even if this matter was concerning all of the Amaneldi , the Valar still wouldn’t have had the right to take judgment upon themselves without Finwë’s input. Does anyone still wonder after this why Finwë renounced his position as a king of the Noldor? Many people are condemning Finwë, saying he did it in order to not be parted from his beloved son, but in my opinion, he left his position as Noldorán because, courtesy of the Valar, he wasn’t one anymore. Therefore, in my opinion, the trial was very much illegal and the sentence , legally speaking, was null.
The Valar violated Finwë’s foremost prerogative as a king: the right to judge. This is the way you treat puppets not free beings, whom you’re supposed to respect. How to believe after this that Melkor was lying? This is why I’m saying that Námo’s actions have seriously impinged upon his position as the Judge of Arda and Fëanáro has now every reason to reject any further judgment that may come from Námo’s lips from now on. In my opinion, Námo has no right to judge Fëanáro any more.
I know you’re going to disagree with me but I think the fact that the Valar handled this wrongly is undeniable. And I'm not speaking only about the trial but about everything the Valar did after this. They understood far too late the gravity of the situation and thought then that, once Fëanáro punished and publicly humiliated, the deed was done and all the problems solved. The seeds of the Darkening weren’t sown only by Melkor. I don’t believe (barely) that the Valar were other but well-intended but that wasn’t enough.
On another note, something interesting about Ingwë, who has grown from this complacent king, never questioning the Valar’s decrees, although remembering how it was to live outside Aman, to the one we know from EI. As for the rest of the Vanyarin royal family…a bit naïve, in my opinion. Life is from their perspective all but dyed in black and white and a garden full of roses on top of that. Ingwion however will learn better, but, as much as he’ll suffer and grow into maturity, he’ll never know suffering and loss the way Fëanáro does, even now, in the bliss of Aman.
One last thing and I hope you won’t mind. I read once a few sentences in HoME 1 regarding this trial and from what I’ve gleaned, although none could withstand the strength of the Lord of Mandos, Fëanáro did manage to hold his ground before him. I wouldn’t expect less from him. “grin”
I’m anxious to see what happens next. Keep up the good work. Ah..and I may have a question or two about some statements concerning Thingol but tomorrow perhaps. Now I feel I brought this too far. “grin” I truly don’t want to decapitate either Manwë or Námo but I feel that if these things aren’t going to be aired up someday, it will never be true Peace in Valinor.
Author's reply
Hi Sitara,
You can't blame it all on Námo. *grin* All the Valar were acting as judges. Námo merely announced the Doom. And, even if your arguments are correct, there's nothing that can be done about it since this is how Tolkien wrote the story. Perhaps Finwë simply refused to adjudicate the offense and the Valar decided at that point to step in. Disasterous? You bet. But the Valar are not omnipotent and they screw up big time. Still, Fëanáro and Finwë are also culpable or certainly are responsible for their own actions. It's all about choice... Fëanáro could have chosen not to believe the rumors that his brother was trying to supplant him in Finwë's eyes, but he didn't; Finwë could have chosen to remain in Tirion and rule, but he didn't; the Noldor could have chosen not to listen to Melkor or to Fëanáro, but they did, and from these choices and many more all else flows, whether we like it or not.
The naivity of some of the characters is about what you would expect in a society that has never known strife. You are seeing these characters at a much younger and more innocent stage of their lives than when you meet them in "Elf, Interrupted". And please keep in mind, as you are reading this story, that the various characters have their own opinions (informed or not) as to what is happening and why and they are not necessarily those of the author. *grin*
Aiwen
· 3 September 2010
· Chapter 1: Seeds of Darkness Sown
I'm delighted to see this story starting to go up, and I look forward to seeing where it goes .
Author's reply
Thanks, Aiwen. I hope you enjoy it.
ninqwestilmen
· 3 September 2010
· Chapter 1: Seeds of Darkness Sown
Hi Fiondil,
I guess it makes perfect sense for Ingwion et all to side with their cousins over Feanor, but its nice to see that Ingwe maintains an objective view atleast.
I was rather surprised to see Finwe at the hearing, I had thought he would not respond very well to the Valar seemingly interfering in the affairs of his family. But at the same time I wish we had more than just a glimpse of the one who put the Finwe in Arafinwe, so to speak. I just hope that the story takes us to him at some point.
As always a work well written, can't wait for more.
Author's reply
Hi Ninqwestilmen. While the primary focus of this story is on the Vanyar, and especially Ingwë and his family, we will be see Finwë and the Noldor along the way, as well as Olwë and the Teleri. Much of this story centers around how the Vanyar and the Teleri were affected by the doings of the Noldor, rather than on the Noldor themselves, who, frankly, have gotten enough press, IMO. *grin*
Thanks for reading and reviewing. I apppreciate it very much.
Kaylee Arafinwiel
· 3 September 2010
· Chapter 1: Seeds of Darkness Sown
Well, yes, of course he was lying. We all knew that, yes. *wry grin at Atar Fiondil* I just got a bit excited.
We all knew he was lying...except Manwe. And, as we see here, Feanoro.
It's interesting to see this from the POV of the Vanyar, and to meet Ingil before his death. I hope I will like him as much as I like your *other* Ingil. *grin* I wonder if anyone in Lorien ever got the two confused?
Way to take charge Ingwe! (after the Valar disappeared) But then, it is his job.
Most favorite line in the Mahanaxar scene?
"Excuse me, while I go find our errant brother." Without another word he simply disappeared.
Three words: I love Tulkas.
Although Namo is still my favorite Vala, of course! I wish I had a picture of the Mahanaxar, I'd hang it in my room. Those thrones sound beautiful!!
Tye-melin atar indonyo!
Kaylee
Author's reply
Hi Kaylee. Much of this story is from the POV of the Vanyar. This story arose out of a question that I always had concerning the Darkening: If Ingwë was the High King of All the Elves, where was he and what was he doing when Fëanor was making life miserable for everyone.
Anyway, thanks for letting me know your favorite line. I rather like it myself. Tulkas is pretty cool.
And I would love to see the thrones of the Máhanaxar, too. I bet they are just incredibly mind-blowing.
Thanks for reading and reviewing, Kaylee. You know how much I enjoy reading your comments. Tye-melin!
6336
· 3 September 2010
· Chapter 1: Seeds of Darkness Sown
Melkor's lies have found fertile ground and bourne fruit.
Feanaro did not like Melkor but I wonder if he would have rebelled anyway with out the stimulus of Melkor's words to goad him on.
I understand Indis not coming but I find it telling that Nardenal was not there either, I have a feeling she gave Feanaro an earfull about his behavior!
Lynda
(Who hopes this posts, I got 'you are not authorised to view this page' the last time, need to check with Rorrah!)
Author's reply
Hi Lynda,
I have the feeling tat Fëanáro would have rebelled eventually, whether goaded by Melkor or not. He just strikes me as that kind of person. But, of course, we'll never know, and maybe there wouldn't have been a story or it might have been a different kind of story.
Anyway, that 'not authorized to view this page' message crops up every once in a while. I've had it show up 3 times in the last month. I wrote to Rorrah but she's never responded. At least if you just wait 10-15 minutes you usually can get back in, but it is annoying.
Erulisse (one L)
· 3 September 2010
· Chapter 1: Seeds of Darkness Sown
The majority of tales view this scenario from the POV of the Feanorians - whether Finwe, Feanor, or others in the family. It is interesting to have a view of this scene from the point of view of Ingwe and his family. I hope that they discuss this a bit, but whether they do or not, I am looking forward to some very different viewpoints and events while seeing them through the eyes of the servants of the Valar and the High King of the Eldar. Now...onwards to the next scenario (rubbing hands in glee)....
- Erulisse (one L)
Author's reply
I think the Fëanorians have gotten too much press. *LOL* Which is why I've written this story primarily from the POV of the Vanyar. In the next couple of chapters we will indeed see how various groups of people -- Noldor, Vanyar, Teleri and Valar -- react to the trial and its outcome. I'm glad you are looking forward to the different viewpoints, as that's what you're going to get. *grin* Thanks for reading and reviewing, Erulissë. I truly appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts.
Larner
· 31 August 2010
· Chapter 0: Lehta Mandostello
Alas that he believes he must dissemble, and that he believes that dissembling managed to fool the others.
Author's reply
Indeed, Larner, but that is the way of such people, believing in their own superiority over others and gloating over how they 'put one over' the other person. And, of course, we know what results from Melkor's dissembling.
Elflingimp
· 31 August 2010
· Chapter 0: Lehta Mandostello
That was very,very dark and very,very good. I enjoyed reading it but it gave me the shivers! Hugs The Imp
Author's reply
Very, very dark and very, very good is just what I was aiming for. Thanks, Elflingimp. *grin* As much as it gave you shivers reading it, it probably gave me more writing it. Thanks for reading and reviewing. I very much appreciate it.
Sitara
· 31 August 2010
· Chapter 0: Lehta Mandostello
Hi Fiondil.
Although I’m currently facing a plethora of diseases and illnesses , I cannot miss the opportunity to read and review your very long awaited fic. Firstly, I’ve to say that I don’t harbour any longer any thoughts of destruction, because it was a time when I’ve been only too happy to wipe the floor with all of the aforementioned kings, not to mention the Valar. All I want now for us all is to reach a certain level of understanding, namely to better understand why occurred then such a disaster and, most of all, to understand that in this case the blame is to be shared, not to be heaped upon one elf or one House’s head.
This being said, I’d like to make a few comments regarding Melkor’s release, when the Valar might have made some serious mistakes. Firstly, I’d like to know whether Manwë asked for Eru’s advice, concerning especially not Melkor’s release (that was already agreed upon) but the way they should have handled him afterwards. After all, the Valar do have a history in acting first and asking their Atar usually after the disaster had already happened. Secondly, the Elves who were brought in Valinor for their own safety (against the same Melkor) should have been consulted and asked for their opinion. They were also inhabitants of Valinor and Melkor’s freedom was also their concern. The Firstborn had been Melkor’s most gravely injured victims and their brethren could still be found in the pits of Utumno.
Thirdly, Námo kept himself silent this time and whenever I read that part I can only think about his loud protesting towards Eärendil’s plea. I never managed to understand Námo’s way of thinking. In several occasions, Námo was silent when he should have spoken and he has spoken when it was better for him to maintain silence. This is only one of them.
And finally, I cannot help but wonder: what if Melkor would have been handled differently during the Ages of his captivity? I don’t think that leaving one to its own devices is the best way to cure one’s heart of evil.
Best regards and I truly hope to have a fine interaction for your stories are really special,
Sitara
Author's reply
Hello Sitara. The answer to your questions is "No". *LOL* What I mean is, that, examining all the sources and carefully sifting through conflicting views, to the best of my knowledge, Manwë consulted neither with Eru nor with the Eldar about Melkor. How different Middle-earth's history would have been had he done so, none can say. Tolkien, of course, was less interested in any of that, being more concerned with the story he had in mind, of Melkor being too corrupted to ever be rehabilitated and the Noldor too willful and prideful to do anything other than what they did. My story, of course, is less about Melkor and the Noldor, or more specifically, Fëanor, and more about everyone else grappling with what is happening.
I hope that you recover from whatever is ailing you and that you are able to enjoy this story. Thanks for taking the time to read and review. I very much appreciate it.
ninqwestilmen
· 30 August 2010
· Chapter 0: Lehta Mandostello
Awesome! Am so glad to see a new story from you, and one that promises to feature Ingwion, yup am happy. He will be pretty young at this point, but I guess you will be skipping ahead a decade or two. It will be interesting to see the Vanya royal family that you sketched in your previous story and am surely looking forward to meet the charismatic Noldoran as well.
Good depiction of Melkor, and Manwe's pretty naive to fall for that simple apology. Well can't fight with canon :) As none of the other Valar said anything, it remains to be seen how trustful/distrustful they are.
I am well pleased to see this ;)
Author's reply
Hi ninqestilmen. Thank you. I am happy that you are pleased by this Prologue. Ingwion will be featured quite a lot in this story along with the rest of his family. And we'll also see something of the Noldorin and Telerin royal families as well.
And no, you can't fight canon. I really hated writing Manwë as being so naive, but he was and we will see how the other Valar deal with the whole business in a future chapter.
Anyway, thanks again for reading and reviewing. I really appreciate it.
Atar Fiondil,
He's lying, he's lying! Why couldn't Manwe see that? Well, at least Namo's no fool, and he's no longer the "Little One" that Melkor made sport of.
Still, I don't like that Melkor will be able to roam free around even Valmar. And living in Namo and Vaire's home, even in a guest cottage? Ick. Poor them. I hope they're going to be all right...
Yay, new Quenya words! And Valarin, too? Oooh. I am going to love this story, I just know it!
Tye-melin, atar indonyo!
Kaylee
Author's reply
Of course he's lying, Kaylee. *LOL* We all know that, even if Manwë doesn't. Anyway, I'm glad to hear how much you are already enjoying this story. Thanks for letting me know. I really appreciate it.
6336
· 30 August 2010
· Chapter 0: Lehta Mandostello
And so it begins, about what one would expect from Melkor, I think if Namo had his way he would have been back in his cell so fast his head would have spun. Eonwe is in for a hard time, poor Maia, I hope Atar has lots of little gifts for him, he will need them.
Just how much Manwe trusts him I am not sure, his love for his brother blinds him to his true nature and Nienna is just being Nienna, always rready to see the good in people, even when it isn't there.
A good start,
More please,
Lynda
Author's reply
Am re-reading Darkness and find that I didn't respond to this earlier. Sorry about that, but I know you enjoyed the story. *grin* Thanks for all your reviews, Lynda. You know how much I enjoy reading them.
Rhyselle
· 30 August 2010
· Chapter 0: Lehta Mandostello
Was writing from Melkor's POV as bothersome this time as in Wars of the Valar?
Eonwe knows that Melkor is lying. I'm pretty sure that Namo knows this too. I'm already wondering what the Lord of Mandos has forseen; what paths the future may take, depending on the actions and choices made by Melkor and the Valar and the Children.
An excellent beginning, Fiondil, and I look forward to the continuance of the tale. A great way to start the work week. Will this follow the twice a week posting schedule of EI and EI2? :)
Well done!
Author's reply
Hi Rhyselle. Melkor is slime. There's no two ways about it. Luckily he only has a few scenes in this story so I didn't have to deal with him as much as I did in Wars of the Valar.
Glad you liked this beginning. I will be adhering to the same posting schedule as I did for Elf, Interrupted, so the next chapter will be up on Friday.
Thanks, Rhyselle. I appreciate you reading and reviewing.
Sunny
· 30 August 2010
· Chapter 0: Lehta Mandostello
Yup - this is where the Darkening starts.
It shall be interesting to see your take on the Elves of the Silmarillion - Fëanor, Nerdanel, Nolofinwë, Findecáno, Turucáno, Finwë and all the others.
And of course some glimpses of a younger Laurefindil.
Author's reply
Hi Sunny. Yes, this is where it begins, at least for the Elves. We will, of course, be seeing all of these characters to one degree or another. Thanks for reading and reviewing. I appreciate it.
And so it begins - the first steps upon the long road. This will be good. This is what I have been waiting for since the wars of the Valar.
- Erulisse (one L)
Author's reply
And now the wait is over. *grin* Thanks for reading and reviewing, Erulisse. I hope you enjoy this story as much as you enjoyed "Wars of the Valar".