Miss Dora Baggins' Book of Manners by Dreamflower
Nienor Niniel · 16 July 2006 · Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
Oh, the importance of Hobbit meals... enjoyable update! Nienor
Author's reply
Hobbit meals are most important. I see food--it's preparation and consumption, as the central fact of hobbit life. I'm glad you enjoyed this.
Nienor Niniel · 16 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Oh, very good! I like the Jane-Austenish tone of the passages that deal with the "Facts of Life"! Off for the next chapter, Nienor
Author's reply
I'm glad you caught that. In my version of the Shire, there is a certain "Regency" tone about the gentry, or at least I strive for it. And of course, Miss Dora, being a very Proper Spinster, would be as discrete as possible when discussing those particular issues, LOL!
PIppinfan1988 · 12 July 2006 · Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
Well...there's no "boarding house reach" with Miss Dora Baggins at the table, eh? (hehehe) You know...I can't help it, but I keep having these visions of Miss Dora having luncheon or supper with a young Peregrin Took who doesn't quite have these particulars down to a knack yet... Do you see the bunnies hopping your way??? ;-) I'm doing my best to shoo them in your direction! Although I make light of the situation, I'm really enjoying this lovely tale! Pippinfan
Author's reply
No, I don't think she approves of *that*! It's not to say it doesn't happen--but probably not where *she* could see! LOL! That would be cute. But, oh, poor Pip! (*looks in dismay at the new bunnies clustering around the ankles*) I'm so glad you like it!
Ariel · 11 July 2006 · Chapter 2: Chapter Two: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part One, Infancy to Faunthood
Faunts are just beginning to learn how to dress themselves. For some Unfathomable Reason, they learn how to undress themselves more quickly. I snickered all the way through this. If I didn't already know you were a mom, I would have figured so from this. Just hysterical. And so true! I guess I raised hobbit babies! Being out in the woods so much, I probably miss a lot of these gems, but I am glad to have found this one. LOL!
Author's reply
Yes, that's one of the things you learn when you have a little one, or take care of a little one. I think all babies are hobbits until they get out of faunthood! LOL! I'm glad you found it and are enjoying it!
harrowcat · 9 July 2006 · Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
All very right and proper I must say although Miss Dora does seem to have a bit of a thing against mugs! Sorry about the late review Dreamflower but RL intrudes. At least I have saved the list of stories I haven't reviewed yet.
Author's reply
*giggle* She does, doesn't she? Oh, goodness, I don't mind how long someone takes to review--I'm just glad to get the reviews in the first place! And I know what it's like to play "catch up".
Pearl Took · 7 July 2006 · Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
This goes quite nicely with Merry's history of Hobbit mealtimes. ;) One can tell Dora was a well raised hobbitess.
Author's reply
I loved that chapter of GF's fic! It was so funny, because I was working on this--about three-quarters done with it when her fic appeared, and there she was quoting the bit about "two dinners", which was also one of my inspirations! Syncronicity is just delightful!
French Pony · 7 July 2006 · Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
Ah, we have come to Food. A most Important Subject, indeed. (Oh, Dear. Miss Dora seems to be Infecting me with Random Capitalization DisEase.) It strikes me that, what with the six meals, at least four of which feature relatively substantial food that requires cooking, Hobbit chefs must be pretty much tied to the kitchen all day. That probably makes the Compliment to the Chef all the more welcome at any meal. And, of course, food is a great subject for dinnertime conversation, since there's so much of it, and its preparation is so time-consuming. I did not know it was impolite to use a knife to push things like peas onto a fork. I always thought that the knife was the proper thing to use. But that's why we have Miss Dora, to show us the Right Way.
Author's reply
*snerk* RCD, very dreadful--it usually affects genteel spinsters, though it can spread to Those Who Read Their Writing, LOL! Yes, if a hobbit were indeed a professional cook, he or she would probably be in the kitchen for about twelve hours. I think in most households, however, the cooking chores were probably shared out among the family members--JRRT tells us that young hobbits are taught to cook even before they begin to "learn their letters", and he makes no gender distinction. Cooking apparently belongs to anyone who can, and it seems, anyone who can, does. I've learned a few things myself. Miss Dora is nothing if not Informative!
Bodkin · 7 July 2006 · Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
Looking at the day separated into mealtimes, I'm rather surprised that hobbits managed to survive the night without Midnight Snack (midnight) and Early Morning Bite (4 am) added to the list. Two - three hours seems to be the biggest gap they could manage! Some very sensible advice there, Miss Dora. And I imagine that sending Recalcitrant Children away from the Table would indeed be the Worst Punishment they could Envisage!
Author's reply
You've got a point. But I suppose that Midnight Snack and Early Morning Bite would fall under the category of larder raids, and would not be considerd "Proper". Still, sleeping hobbits are not going to get hungry as quickly as busy hobbits. Wouldn't it be a cool fic for someone to do a study of hobbit metabolism? I imagine it's a good deal like that of birds, who have to eat so much (comparatively speaking) to maintain themselves. Oh yes, it most certainly would!
Elemmírë · 7 July 2006 · Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
Oops! I hit the wrong button before I finished writing my review! >>One places the Silverware, Plate and Napkin about an inch from the edge of the table, with the Plate in the Center. Place the Fork at the Left of the Plate, upon the Napkin. The Knife should be to the Right of the Plate, blade facing the Plate. The Spoon should be to the Right of the Knife<< I have always wondered who is the one who deemed it absolutely neccessary that a table be set in this manner. It's semantics, really. In the whole universal scheme of things, does it really matter if one's fork is on the right side of the plate or the left? Sorry, I digress ... this stems from conversations I've had with my mother about table setting when younger. >>It is quite Rude to reach in front of someone else. One should Always ask for the food to be Passed to one. By the same token, if one’s neighbor has asked for the Bread to be passed, it is also Rude to take one for oneself before sending it on. Wait until it is Returned. If it was the Last Piece upon the plate, then one is sadly out of luck<< If only some people in today's society followed these basic manners. Sigh. Everyone can learn a thing or two from hobbits. I also enjoyed the various distinctions between the meals, etc. along with the "proper" way to have Thirds and Fourths. I think, however, my favorite part was about teatime. Dora is just so ... proper!! Ughh! Makes me feel very unladylike at times. LOL!! (in my upcoming Dora tale, you might be happy to know that there is a scene where she and Frodo are having afternoon tea together) Hope you post more soon, Dreamflower!
Author's reply
I hate it when that happens! If only they followed *any* basic manners...*sigh* Well, of course Aunt Dora has to set her own example of good manners! And I look forward to seeing she and Frodo having Tea!
Elemmírë · 6 July 2006 · Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
>>When one dines in Company, the first Conversation should always be about the Food Before One. One should pay attention to the dishes served, the way in which they were Prepared, and the Ingredients used to Prepare them. It is proper to comment on the Flavors and Textures of the various Dishes set before one, and to discuss the Preparation of the Food .... After this, the conversation may gradually turn to Food in General, and from there, as the meal nears its End and one has progressed to Filling Up the Corners, more general subjects of Conversation may be Introduced. Even so, it is well to keep to Topics of a Congenial Nature, and to avoid Serious or Unpleasant Subjects until the Meal is ended. And it should go without saying that one should not Discuss Business at the Table! << Gee, no wonder the Bagginses are considered to be dull and predictable, if they follow this advice to the letter, all the time! >>If the food truly is something one heartily Dislikes, take at least a bite or two, and by disturbing the Remainder upon one’s plate, perhaps disguise one’s distaste.<< Advice I'm sure Frodo's followed in the days following the War,
Author's reply
I am fairly certain that this idea of Proper Conversation is more likely Miss Dora's Ideal, than a firm Reality. Still, to hobbits, talking about Food is probably not *quite* so boring as it might be to others, LOL! I'm sure you are quite right...
shirebound · 6 July 2006 · Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
not simply eat distractedly to fill an Empty Stomach It's hard to imagine a Shire hobbit with an Empty Stomach! :D as the meal nears its End and one has progressed to Filling Up the Corners, more general subjects of Conversation may be Introduced. *snickers* This is so much fun.
Author's reply
Considering the metabolism hobbits seem to have, I estimate an "empty stomach" (or what they think of as empty) about every two hours or so, LOL! Why, of course, one should talk about the Food first! *grin*
Frodo Baggins · 3 July 2006 · Chapter 2: Chapter Two: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part One, Infancy to Faunthood
Oh, Dreamflower! This is only getting better! My favourite line was "If a child pleads no Hunger at all, then it is time to call a Healer." That is so very Hobbit like. But, what would I expect from a Hobbit? Keep it up! God BLess, Namarie, Frodo Baggins
Author's reply
Well, considering Hobbit appetite, I am quite sure that it would have been sound advice!
Frodo Baggins · 3 July 2006 · Chapter 1: Chapter One: Foreword
Dreamflower, Oh my! Yes...um, well, this is quite a lot of advice!! LOL!! Very creative indeed, and she sounds like the perfect role model of the three Principles of Respectibility! What must she think of that...that...well, cousin of hers that had such an Adventure? And then there's his nephew...well, he might still have a chance. ;) LOL!! This is going to be enjoyable, mellon nin! Namarie! God Bless, Frodo Baggins Happy Fourth of July!!
Author's reply
Yes, I think Dora would have been a good role model! I am quite sure she disapproved terribly of Bilbo's *Adventure*--horribly unrespectable, you know! But she was fond of him, all the same. She held great hopes for him. Fortunately for her Sensibilities, she did not live long enough to hear of *his* Adventure!
AspenJules · 3 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Oh, delightful as always! I giggled madly during the chapter beginning "Lasses generally come sooner to the Realization that lads are not such Loathsome Creatures as they once had proclaimed." Loathsome Creatures! *snickers* I love the capitalization! "Offering Temptations!" hee hee hee! You know, though, Miss Dora shows a very remarkable understanding of all this... could she once perhaps have *been* a lass like that? One wonders why she ended up single, she really is quite level-headed. There's a story you might have to write someday, Dreamflower... unless of course you already have!
Author's reply
*grin* Yes, an elderly spinster giving advice about S-E-X, without ever saying the word, LOL! Someday, I may give a bit more consideration to it. I do know *one* reason: first her father's health was poor, and then her brother Dudo. But there also may have been other reasons as well...
Kitty · 2 July 2006 · Chapter 3: Chapter Three: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Two--the Childhood and Teen Years
It is the Normal State of things for children to want this cuddling--and many Parents find that separate rooms make no Difference to a younger child, who when faced with the Dark, or with a frightening Nightmare will automatically seek out the bed of an older sibling. Frodo, Merry and Pippin would agree wholeheartedly with that, I'm sure! And the anecdote of the four cousins was so sweet. Hm, hobbit children beds seem to be rather large, contrary to the children beds of men. Even in my bed I suppose four children would be quite crowded. The poor children have to learn their genealogy quite early. Sometimes I wonder how many sheets of paper would be needed to draw a complete genealogy of all the Tooks or Brandybucks. I myself have sometimes even problems with the bit in the Appendices! Oh, and I had to giggle about the question of adventures. *Of course* this had to come up! Too bad Dora didn't life until the time so many hobbits *did* go on an adventure - I'd liked to know what she would say about that *grin*
Author's reply
I'm glad you liked the little anecdote. As to beds, I have childhood memories of my own cousin's beds. In rural areas, it seemed that the children's beds were no smaller than those of adults--since siblings did share beds, as the older ones grew out of the nest, the younger ones had large beds of their own, which they gladly shared with company. The first bed *I* remember having was what is called a "double bed", and I shared with my sister. I figure genealogy is right up there with cooking, when it comes to hobbit learning--one of the most important things! I think she might have been very Shocked! LOL!
lbilover · 2 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Oh, these are quite wonderful! So exactly the sort of thing I'd have imagined Bilbo's Aunt Dora to write. Now that I'm caught up, I can't wait for the next installment!!
Author's reply
I've often thought of those "reams of advice"--so it just seemed she would be the right person to write such a book! I've been hard at work on "Mealtimes and Manners".
Bodkin · 2 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Lasses generally come sooner to the Realization that lads are not such Loathsome Creatures as they once had proclaimed. In Later Years, of course, they Frequently Revert to their Former Point of View. I love Miss Dora's Random Capitalisation. And At this age, the best Punishment is Work. How true. Not to mention avoiding Idle Hands. I can't wait to hear what she has to say next.
Author's reply
*snerk* Yes, they frequently do, LOL! Miss Dora does want to make sure that her Point is Made! I figure, hobbits being the practical creatures they are, that work figured prominently in child-rearing!
PIppinfan1988 · 1 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Oh, those tweenaged years! They're enough to drive even the most seasoned parent mad! I think Miss Dora is a wellspring of good advice. :-) Pippinfan
Author's reply
They certainly can be! Miss Dora thanks you! ;)
PIppinfan1988 · 1 July 2006 · Chapter 3: Chapter Three: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Two--the Childhood and Teen Years
Lads, however, seem to like a Challenge. From their teens through their tweens, they are not to be Trusted when it comes to the Larder or Garden. That line is too cute! You'll never guess who I thought of when I read that! ;-) PF
Author's reply
I couldn't *possibly* imagine...*grin*rolls eyes* I'm glad you liked that line, actually...
MaidenofValinor · 1 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Tweens! My favourite! Very nice.
Author's reply
Yes, "tweens" are such a delightfully hobbity concept! Thank you!
SurgicalSteel · 1 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Oh, I enjoyed this very much!
Author's reply
*grin* Good, I'm glad to hear that, thank you!
Pearl Took · 1 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
"Teens who once contented themselves with the occasional midnight Raid on the Family Larder or Kitchen Garden, will turn into Tweens who seem to court the Trouble or Danger of taking their Depredations further Abroad, Trespassing on the Property of Others, and Purloining Comestibles of some value. In addition, the rather mild Dares and Pranks of earlier years are replaced with those which skirt on Dangerous. Lads have a tendency to allow their friends to Egg them On. When caught at such Mischief, Punishment needs to be swift and Severe." She *has* met Frodo! Hehehehe! This really is delightful, I'm enjoying it thoroughly :)
Author's reply
Well, she most *certainly* has! She is his aunt, after all, LOL! I'm sure she was brought up to speed about all his little misdoings. I visualize a frequent correspondence between Dora Baggins and Menegilda Brandybuck, LOL! I'm glad you're having fun--it's a blast to write, actually!
Pearl Took · 1 July 2006 · Chapter 3: Chapter Three: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Two--the Childhood and Teen Years
Are hobbit children really this easily raised? LOL If that's the case then a lot of hobbit stories I've read are terribly amiss. ;)
Author's reply
I am sure that they are more easily raised than the children of Men--really, JRRTs description of them as by nature peaceful and law-abiding, means that they must have been mostly amiable and biddable. Well, you know, sometimes it's our tendency to make hobbits too human. It's only natural, since we *are* human, LOL!
French Pony · 1 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Ah, for all Miss Dora's formal Phrasing and careful Capitalization, it seems that she has quite a Modern Heart. Of course, the Hobbits do seem to be the most "modern" society to be found in Middle-earth, though I think that the concept of "teenager" that Miss Dora is referencing here is a distinctly twentieth-century idea. Nevertheless, it's nice to imagine a nineteenth-century English country village where people did accept the notion of adolescence as a separate stage of life. I'm sure that such concepts and concerns made life somewhat easier for parents and young Hobbits alike.
Author's reply
Of course, the Hobbits do seem to be the most "modern" society to be found in Middle-earth... Exactly. In terms of comfort and amenities and attitudes, they are far closer to modern than the world around them. I can't answer for how they got so far advanced technologically without the underpinnings of industrialization--that's a topic I don't know enough about. But JRRT himself endowed the hobbit race with the concept of adolescence (which you correctly describe as a modern development in RL) when he invented the term "Tweens" to describe the "irresponsible years between the teens and coming of age". Story-externally, of course, it is explained by JRRT's own modern sensiblities and his determination to created an extended childhood for his hobbits. Story-internally, I think it is caused by the very nature of hobbits themselves: they are a social race, with a clannishness and attachment to family and social status almost akin to a herd instinct or a pack mentality. Their preoccupation with Family above all else and the very well-developed sense of Compassion that Gandalf finds so appealing in hobbits means that they *would* be more advanced socially than the more warlike Races of Men, Elves and Dwarves.
harrowcat · 1 July 2006 · Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Pompous Hobbitess! *g* But I think I can see the heart of gold underneath!
Author's reply
I believe you have captured her personality. Like many an inveterate advice giver, she *is* pompous, pedantic and a bit over-confident of being Right. But she *does* have a heart of gold--otherwise, she would not think being Kind is more important than being Predictable...