PIppinfan1988
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
I would love to meet Miss Dora Baggins--I have a feeling we might get on quite well. :-) I snickered at the "unwelcome guests" bit...she just *had* to have known the Sackville-Baggines, lol. Probably even had to entertain them once or twice. I can see Miss Dora inviting Lobelia to Tea out of propriety, however, I can also see where she'd get the notion to excuse the intended host of not "being at home". (*more snickering*)
Pippinfan
Author's reply
Oh my yes she had the S.-B.s in mind with this chapter! It was rather dripping with genteel sarcasm, LOL! Dora and Lobelia did not get on much better than Lobelia and Menegilda, though Dora, being a Baggins and not a Brandybuck, was not so vocal on the subject.
Yes, since Lobelia *was* kin, there would have been times she *had* to be invited. But I'm sure Dora was "not at home" any other occasion Lobelia arrived upon the doorstep.
shirebound
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
After a Month or more, then one is within one’s Rights to Inform the visitor that they are no longer a Guest, but a member of the Household, and to assign them such Duties as would be Expected of one who dwelt there.
For some Reason, this almost Invariably results in the Unwanted Guest deciding to go Elsewhere.
LOL, I love that! I think Aunt Dora most clearly covered all possible situations in this chapter.
Author's reply
*grin* Well, I do believe she *tried* to anyway!
SurgicalSteel
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
Caught up at last! I especially enjoyed the advice on how to deal with unwelcome guests.
Author's reply
Yes, can't you see that as a problem in a society where it's expected that one would just automatically put up any company that showed up at the door?
(Most of my ideas here came from extrapolating from Bilbo's reactions to the Dwarves showing up unexpectedly at his home. He was flustered, yes, but it never occured to him not to ask them in just as if they *had* been invited, nor indeed, to put all of them up for the night.)
Baggins Babe
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
I do love Miss Dora's advice - I suspect the 'Unwelcome Guests' she is thinking about here probably include the dreaded S-Bs!
I really love the 18th century tone of this - and the capitalisation, which is so typical of those household guides of the time.
Beautifully done, Dreamflower. I think Miss Dora is a very observant and sensible hobbit.
Author's reply
Oh, I can tell you she was definitely thinking of them, even if she did not "Name Names", so to speak.
I'm glad you do like that--it was the sort of genteel tone I was aiming for, and it's hard to know sometimes if I've succeeded or overdone it.
She is, isn't she?
French Pony
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
Another wonderful lesson from Miss Dora! I especially like the touch of offering a Hobbit something to wash their feet in after walking barefoot in weather appropriate to the English countryside. I just bet that a nice foot bath and a brush would be a welcome thing.
Author's reply
I certainly think that it would--never wearing shoes in any kind of weather must have made for its own set of rules and behaviors.
I'm glad you are enjoying this!
Larner
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
I wonder how many folk found themselves slamming doors in Lobelia's face as she sought to enter with complaint on her lips.
Lovely look at proper behavior once more, and LOVE the idea of assigning tasks to those who've attempted to make themselves permanent guests.
Author's reply
Ah yes. I am thinking that Miss Dora had Lobelia and her family Firmly In Mind when she wrote that part of the chapter. Lobelia, at least as I have characterized her, is one who is deliberately rude--her behavior in canon is insulting and outrageous, and I can't think she doesn't know better--but I think all of us have known people who have found that the best way to get what they want out of folks who are decently civilized and polite is to be deliberately rude and confrontational. And *that* I am sure, is not something Miss Dora would Countenance!
Seems to me in a society where it's expected that one would automatically put up any family or friends (or even acquaintances) who showed up at the door, that sometimes it might be hard to get rid of freeloaders. And since the idea of freeloading is to get something for nothing, being given chores and responsibilities would be a way to get rid of them.
Larner
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
Sound advice, Miss Dora! Sound advice indeed!
Author's reply
Miss Dora Thanks You! *grin*
Larner
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
Again, a wonderful chapter, and so very instructive! Of course, individual families will have their own variations on this schedule, but it's nice to realize when each meal OUGHT to be offered.
I imagine Frodo and Bilbo, in their dressing gowns, sitting at the table, each with his own book, scandalizing Dora when she comes to call.
Hmmm. A plotbunny there, I think.....
Author's reply
Of course, Miss Dora is dealing with the Ideal, here, and of course, the *Baggins* way would just have to be the most Proper! LOL! But, yes, I generally think about every two hours is how six or seven meals a day works out, so I begin with "elevenses" which gives me one *firm* time, and work out from there.
Yes, a bachelor household would not quite prove up to Miss Dora's standards. Can't you see the two of them scrambling, if they realize that *she's* the caller at the door?
Larner
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
It is obvious Miss Dora watched her neighbors well, too offer such sound advice after remaining unmarried and without progeny of her own.
Don't know that I'd care for having a Hobbit teenager, although it might have been easier than raising my two.
Author's reply
Yes, I think she was very much into watching everyone and everything around her--er, perhaps nosy and busybody would describe it--but she is sharp and she has a good heart, so her observations are pretty accurate.
*snerk* I know what you mean--though I only had one to deal with.
In some ways, I think Hobbit children *would* have been easier. Look at Pippin's behavior with his cousins: he's constantly being bossed around, and though he's a bit cheeky, he cheerfully does as he's told. Imagine how a human adolescent would react on being ordered to fetch water, or firewood, or mop the floor--a sullen "You're not the boss of me!" would be the least of it.
And, again, in spite of his cheeky manner, Pippin is always beautifully well-mannered. I think of his conversations in Minas Tirith with Beregond, for example.
And JRRT tells us that though Hobbits were indulgent parents, hobbit children were rarely spoiled by it.
Larner
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 3: Chapter Three: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Two--the Childhood and Teen Years
A wonderful chapter, and wonderful also to realize the individuals alluded to as Cautions. And lovely advice, again, for the rest of us.
Author's reply
*grin* Well, she's far too Proper to give out Names, but she would, of course know all the family anecdotes, LOL!
I'm glad you like her advice!
Larner
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Chapter Two: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part One, Infancy to Faunthood
And how equally appropriate most of this advice is for the parents of ANY child.
Well done! I applaud Dora's good sense.
Author's reply
She's very observant and shrewd. She'd know at once which parents were successful and which were not.
Finally, this is ready for reading. And I've missed so much of it while I was offline!
Am looking forward to reading these, and love that Dora has offered us this chance to peek into Hobbit society.
Author's reply
I hope you enjoy it. I see Frodo's Aunt Dora as kind of a cross between Dear Abby and Miss Manners, LOL!
Anso the Hobbit
· 17 August 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
Oh my! You've done quite a bit of hard work putting all this together I'm sure. If all hobbits follow these rules I'm sure there won't be any troubles, now would there? :D
Author's reply
*sigh* But it's a shame that some--like the S.B.s don't follow any of the rules, isn't it?
Anso the Hobbit
· 17 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Chapter One: Foreword
Hehehe. :D
Author's reply
Glad you got a giggle! *grin*
Queen Galadriel
· 16 August 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
Oh, I just love this! Such Hobbity advice. I found the chapters on children to be especially interesting. It's quite amusing to see in what high regard food is held. LOL! I wonder, how does the esteemed Miss Dorra know so much about parenting when she has never even married? :) Can't wait for more!
God bless,
Galadriel
Author's reply
I think that food is probably the central fact of life to hobbits; they have no religion, according to JRRT, and they do have to eat about every two hours--so I would think it would be very important to them!
And Miss Dora is an aunt and a cousin--which in hobbit society would mean a good deal of input into the raising of neices and young cousins. (Think about Frodo with Merry and Pippin) Also, I think she is shrewdly observant, and keeps a sharp eye and ear out for all that goes on around her.
Kitty
· 24 July 2006
· Chapter 5: Chapter Five: Mealtimes and Manners--Part One, Basic Manners and Everyday Meals
Uh, six meals a day, and then Dora is talking about third and fourth helpings? My stomach hurts if I only *think* about that much food!
Anyway, after reading through this chapter I am sure Dora would find it Very Improper how the four Travellers were fed on the Quest! I can see her lecture Aragorn and the others about Proper Hobbit Meals ;)
Author's reply
Well, hobbits clearly have a far different metabolism than humans. Otherwise *all* of them would be as round as butterballs, and they would have to roll instead of walk, LOL!
Oh, I'm sure! She would have been horrified to realize how her young relations and connections were being "starved". Yet she does remember the Fell Winter, as she was a child during that time.
Kitty
· 24 July 2006
· Chapter 4: Chapter Four: Upon the Rearing of Children, Part Three--Tweenagers
Lasses generally come sooner to the Realization that lads are not such Loathsome Creatures as they once had proclaimed. *giggle* Wonderful put! Well, Dora is a wise hobbitess, even if I suppose her advice wasn't always welcome, and she understands how difficult this age can be.
You know, so much of this reminds me of this or that in your stories, what makes the reading even more enjoyable, e.g. Celandine, The Dare ... I mostly end up reminiscencing and wanting to re-read older stories, though I'm more than busy with the new ones.
Author's reply
Dora is very observant, and I think that sometimes her advice *was* welcome and sought out--and sometimes it wasn't. (I can't see Bilbo being very tolerant, for example, if she had tried to meddle with his raising of Frodo.) but Daisy and Griffo asked her advice about little Folco.
I do have my previous fics in mind, trying to reconcile some of the things I've already committed to--so it's no wonder that the hints are there!
Pearl Took
· 24 July 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
Alas, the poor old dear is a spoilsport. How can one really have the full "Spirit of Merrymaking" while trying to keep all these rules in mind! ;)
These really are such fun, Dreamflower :)
Author's reply
*grin*
I think that she is probably merely elucidating what most hobbits already know and do--only the most boorish of ill-mannered louts (Lotho, maybe?) would need to be reminded!
Elemmírë
· 24 July 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
Oh goody!! More of Miss Dora!! Yeah! (reviewing as I read again)
I like how the hobbits hold various festivals at different times, depending on where one lives. It reminds me of life here in New England. There a a few Spring flower fests; churches hold their Summer carnivals; and in the Fall there are fairs and apple/pumpkin fests galore.
I can just imagine all that good food laid out to eat at a hobbit feast. Mmmm, you're making me hungry.
Adults may choose to sit at the other Tables, or even to Carry their Plates About, and Converse as they eat standing up. At such an Event, this is not Improper. However, it is Ill-Advised, especially with a Heavily Laden Plate. It is very difficult to Juggle one’s Plate, Cutlery and Drinking Vessel while carrying on a Conversation!
That is very true!! I've had some embarrasing moments where my food has decided to jump off the plate ... no matter how much or little was on it. Give me a table and chair any day!
At the meal’s end, there is usually provided a Tent or Pavilion where those items are to be washed. This Service is generally Provided by local Tweens.
Snerk. I bet all the tweens are on their best behavior the week of such an occassion, lest they be the ones chosen to wash all those hundreds of dishes.
HeHe. So Bilbo is the 'Reliable Witness' right? I love how Dora sees him as reliable one minute and unrespectable the next as he went Adventuring.
At Weddings, there is the Custom of the Wedding Cake. In Shire Tradition, a Silver penny is baked into the Cake. If a child or tweenager, or an adult over eighty, find it, it means Good Luck--which of course is only reasonable since they are now a Penny the richer
Hmm, part of my story with Dora deals with the events of a wedding. I like the idea of this 'Shire' tradition and may have to incorporate it somehow. May I borrow it, please?
However, should an Adult behave so Rudely, there is sadly no Recourse other than a Look of Reproach.
LOL!!!
This is a not Uncommon Occurrence when more than one Family Member share a Birthday. Under such Circumstances, the Elder byrding is considered the Main Honoree.
Somehow I just picture Bilbo letting Frodo have the first slice of birthday cake, in spite of tradition. :D
Wonderful as always, Dreamflower!!
Author's reply
Yes, that's the kind of thing I am picturing, with each local area celebrating something special to their way of doing things!
At least hobbits don't have to deal with flimsy paper plates, LOL!
That is probably quite true about the tweens. *We* know how the adults get those "volunteers" don't we?
Well, while she disaproves of his Adventure, she has no reason not to believe he is Truthful. He *is* after all, the Head of her Family.
And you are very welcome to borrow that tradition--I would love to see it pass into fanon--it's kind of a tribute to another of JRRT's tales, "Smith of Wooton Major" a lovely and rather neglected story.
Oh, you are probably right. But Bilbo and Frodo are rather special, aren't they?
I'm sorry for taking so long to reply. I missed a whole batch of reviews while I was in the hospital.
PIppinfan1988
· 22 July 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
Pot lucks--gotta love'em! :-)
"One may continue to return for Further Helpings until no more Food is left."
LOL, it seems Miss Dora Baggins' advice lives through to this day. ;-)
I am glad that she mentioned a "signal" at the beginning of the meal...I might have a question regarding that.
Another great chapter from Miss Dora!
Pippinfan
Author's reply
I am finally getting around to answering reviews I missed while I was out sick.
Yes, the hobbit version of "pot luck"! And yeah, I've been to many a gathering where the guests *must* have read her advice, LOL!
Ask away!
Elanor Silmariën
· 22 July 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
This is very entertaining! I love Miss Dora's advice, it's so.... hobbity!
God bless,
Ellie
Author's reply
I am trying very hard to convey the "hobbitiness" of things! Food is *very* important to hobbits. It's their central fact of life.
Nienor Niniel
· 22 July 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
"The Rule of Thumb is to bring a Dish large enough to feed thrice as many Hobbits as are in one’s own Immediate Family. However, most Families see fit to bring Far More than the Rule calls for."
There must be a lot left for "filling up the corners", then!
I like the celebrations you invented!
All the best, Nienor
Author's reply
Well, of course there needs to be some for the "filling up of the corners"! Why it would be dreadful to end a meal with the corners unfilled!
French Pony
· 22 July 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
Having recently attended two All-Day Singings with Dinners-On-The-Grounds, I can only imagine the richness and variety of Hobbit potlucks. Considering what singers can produce, I imagine the Hobbit version would just punch any one of us right in the heart. I love that even wise Miss Dora can't think of a really good solution to the problem of holding plate, cutlery, and cup at a potluck. The only Proper Solution is to hold the Potluck Outside on a Green Lawn, so that Guests may Sit on the Soft Grass and engage in Pleasant Conversation.
it means Good Luck--which of course is only reasonable since they are now a Penny the richer
Miss Dora has a brilliantly dry Sense of Humor.
Considering her advice about the proper amounts of cutlery, Miss Dora might appreciate this old Austrian joke. It comes from the days when one Did Not Cut Fish With A Knife, because most knives used by the upper class were silver, and there was some chemical component in fish (and potatoes, too) that would discolor the blade:
Franki and Mucki were playing at the seashore one day. Franki swam out a little too far and did not notice the shark moving towards him. ARRR! The shark attacked Franki. Mucki, horrified, put a machete between his teeth, swam out to his friend, stabbed the shark with the machete, and killed it dead. Then he towed Franki back to shore and revived him. Franki first words to Mucki were: "Mucki! Fish? With a knife?!?!"
Author's reply
Yes, I am beginning to discover Miss Dora's sense of humor. She's very wry and subtle.
Oh, that's so funny! And hardly anyone nowadays would get a joke like that!
shirebound
· 22 July 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
Big Folk do not often even eat Seconds, much less Thirds!
Hobbits are Far More Sensible.
Indeed they are! :D
Author's reply
Oh, wow! I'm finding all the reviews I missed while I was in the hospital!
Yes, Hobbits *are* more sensible!
Lindelea
· 22 July 2006
· Chapter 6: Chapter Six: Mealtimes and Manners, Part Two, Festivals, Feasts and Celebrations
LOL! This is delightful! I think this is the first chapter I've had the leisure to read through all the way. (I clicked into this story once, very early on, when you had posted perhaps the second or third chapter, and glanced over the first paragraph, and put it on my list as I was interrupted.)
Dh is watching the British Open at the moment which gives me a little unexpected weekend computer time!
The Festivals with their shared meals sound very familiar! As a matter of fact we're supposed to have one tomorrow after church. I wonder how many people will just hang out at the church for the rest of the afternoon and into the evening (providing the a/c is working). Food and fellowship and cool air. Lovely prospect.
Author's reply
I'm glad you're enjoying it! Miss Dora is huge fun to write, and I don't have to worry about *plot*!
Yes, it seemed to me that would just be a hobbity way of doing things as a community. Since there *are* no churches in the Shire, other things have to substitute, and food seems to be central to hobbit society.
I do feel sorry for you folk who are not used to this heat. Down here, pretty much *everyone* has A/C, and if they don't they know how best to deal with the heat. Y'all just aren't *used* to this!