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| A Cat in King Elessar's Court by Agape4Gondor | 14 Review(s) |
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| Dreamflower | Reviewed Chapter: 18 on 4/30/2008 |
| You know, you have put your finger on the one thing about Gandalf's characterization that had so often irked me over the years: the many times he kept his mouth shut when it would have made so much more *sense* for him to say something. Of course, *story-EXternally* it makes a lot of sense--JRRT couldn't surprise the readers if Gandalf was constantly spoiling major plot points. But *story-INternally*, I've never really been satisfied with a lot of the explanations. What did Gandalf know, or not know, why did he reveal or not reveal, certain things? Of course, it makes him seem more "human" to have a flaw. Gandalf was "close"--whether as the Grey or as the White, he was cryptic and secretive. Still--it's never satisfactorily explained to me! Author Reply: It seems to me, and I can’t remember where, that Tolkien states that Gandalf did NOT know ‘know all’ – I’m thinking this is half the problem. Frodo really should have been told more. Gandalf had to have known that the Quest probably wouldn’t end at Rivendell. Yet, he lets the poor Hobbit go off – and then again on to Mordor. Very sad. The same is true for Boromir – he had to have some inkling that Boromir would be tested. Even Sam could feel it. Yet, he lets the poor man go off thinking he’s impervious to the Ring… and we all know what happened. There are way too many examples of his omissions that are fatal/horrid/or downright stupid! IMHO Well - with that said, Gandalf did he had to do, I suppose. But it hurts! Thanks so much for reviewing and staying with me while the Cat runs rampant! | |
| shirebound | Reviewed Chapter: 18 on 4/30/2008 |
| It looks as if the hands of the King -- and his esteem -- will be a healing force for our dear cat, as well as for the others. Author Reply: It is the Cat's only hope - else he follow his friend/master into flame. | |
| eiluj | Reviewed Chapter: 18 on 4/30/2008 |
| That's an interesting point of view. Too bad we can't ask JRRT! I agree that there *was* enough time for Gandalf to tell Denethor, but I don't think it would have changed his mind. I offer the following quotations: 1. "Then Gandalf seeing the madness that was upon him" -- I think this cannot be understated. Given Gandalf’s ability to read minds and hearts, there’s no doubt he understood Denethor’s mental state. And I think Tolkien was telling us that Denethor was literally beyond reason at that point. 2. "'Nay, I have seen more than thou knowest, Grey Fool. For thy hope is but ignorance. Go then and labour in healing! Go forth and fight! Vanity. For a little space you may triumph on the field, for a day. But against the Power that now arises there is no victory. To this City only the first finger of its hand has yet been stretched. All the East is moving. And even now the wind of thy hope cheats thee and wafts up Anduin a fleet with black sails. The West has failed. It is time for all to depart who would not be slaves'" -- I really doubt that knowledge of Rohan's arrival would have given Denethor enough hope to have made any difference. Especially since all that Gandalf and Pippin knew was the simple fact of Rohan's *arrival*. But look again at what Denethor says: it could be his answer to a mention of Rohan: "'For a little space you may triumph on the field, for a day. But against the Power that now arises there is no victory.'" 3. Denethor sneers at Gandalf's plans to bring in a Northern Ranger to "supplant" him. "'What then would you have,' said Gandalf, 'if your will could have its way?'" Denethor answers: "To be the Lord of this City in peace, and leave my chair to a son after me, who would be his own master and no wizard's pupil. But if doom denies this to me, then I will have *naught*: neither life diminished, nor love halved, nor honour abated’” -- If we take this literally, Denethor wouldn’t have been satisfied with victory over Sauron unless it was also accompanied by Faramir’s return to health (and lack of allegiance to Gandalf!) and the continuation of the Stewards’ pre-eminence in Gondor. And if he can’t have all of that, he doesn’t want to live. And he believes he’s losing *all* of that: Faramir is dying -- and in any case, looks to Gandalf rather than to his father -- and Gandalf is bringing in the Northern heir. Even victory against Sauron will usher in a world Denethor refuses to accept or be a part of. I think you’re correct in that it never occurred to Pippin to mention Rohan. Would Pippin have regretted not telling Denethor? Definitely! And Gandalf? He may well have thought of mentioning it, but felt it was an argument that wouldn’t have made any difference. Would he have regretted not telling Denethor? I think that depends on his evaluation of Denethor’s madness -- but I’m sure he’d have had second thoughts and regrets, also. I’m looking forward to seeing Alqualondë’s reaction to Aragorn. Author Reply: Eiluj – you give me chills. An excellent rebuttal! Excellent and perfect. I agree with all your arguments. *bows in homage* I’m looking forward to the little scamps reaction too… Will he serve or will he leave? Bless you!!! | |
| Larner | Reviewed Chapter: 18 on 4/29/2008 |
| He thinks that Gandalf betrayed Denethor by not telling him of Rohan's arrival? But Gandalf wasn't in the Citadel, and probably was more focused on Faramir's safety than on what Denethor knew or didn't know about the coming of allies and reinforcements when he confronted Denethor in the House of the Stewards, or so I would think. Alas! But at least he now has a new Lord, and one whose mind is clear and healthy, and whose spirit is such he will do what Denethor had lost the ability--and will--to do for Gondor. Yay! Aragorn is here now! Author Reply: I can only hope that the reason Mithrandir didn't tell Denethor is because he saw it as a hostage situation - he was too engrossed in trying to get a madman to release his hostage... Poor Denethor would never have seen it that way though. In his mind, he was 'saving' Faramir from a fate worse than death. And yes - Huzzah! Aragorn is here! | |