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History Lessons: The Third Age by Nilmandra	24 Review(s)
Nikara	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/12/2005
Another great chapter. All of the emotions were so strong and heartfelt. I love how Glorfindel watches over Elrond. I can't wait for more, although I know it will only become more sad. Author Reply: although I know it will only become more sad. That is indeed the hardest part of writing this! Elrond got rather a raw deal in life, which is why he needs some friends like Glorfindel. Thanks for the review!

Inariel	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/12/2005
This is a tremendously well written story. I like it so much, it stole my breath away. The following paragraphs caught my eye: “For a moment he considered allowing Aragorn to put words to his thoughts and tell him of Arwen, but Aragorn had grown much in his time away and Elrond would not give him the upper hand in the conversation they needed to have”. “`I admit I want him off-guard,' he finally answered. `He has grown in body and mind. He will make a great king one day. But I cannot let him have control in this conversation, or this situation.'” “`Master Elrond, I . ..' began Aragorn, but Elrond held up his hand to stop him. He was determined to lead this discussion where he wanted it to go. Wow… Elrond is a skilled diplomat, used to negotiate with Elves and Men ever since his youth at Gil-Galad’s court. Does he not trust in his ability to gain the upper hand should Aragorn have the first say? I think that Elrond is experiencing something we Mortals so often do: his son is now his equal! I do not know whether over the ages he will ever feel something akin toward his twins, but now he realizes that Aragorn has grown in his full adulthood and that he has to adjust himself to having an adult-to-adult relation with Aragorn. And I think that this, added to his pain, is unsettling Elrond. I do not know why I am so impressed with his apparently small detail, but I was very moved. Also, you reconciled me with Elrod. No matter how good and wise Elrond is described (“like a summer day”), when I read about his forbidding Aragorn and Arwen to marry before Aragorn was crowned King of Gondor and Arnor, I got disappointed in Elrond. I could not help thinking: “Well, at least he’s not asking of Aragorn a silmaril, like Elu asked of Beren… After all, earning the crown of two kingdoms is a task humans have performed during history, while taking a silmaril from Morgoth’s crown sounds more like a battle lost from the start”. Apparently, for a moment Arwen’s thoughts went in a similar direction: “`The bride price is set high,' she said bitterly. But then, the explanations Elrond provides for Arwen are so powerful and persuasive: “`The bride price is fitting, for she will be no common bride,' replied Elrond. `She is rather a beacon on a hill, keeping him ever focused on the goal yet not hindering him from walking the narrow path.' Well, I know it took more than that to persuade Arwen, but... Unlike her, I already knew the end of the story…:-) Again, thank you for the pleasure your works provide for me. Author Reply: Wow… Elrond is a skilled diplomat, used to negotiate with Elves and Men ever since his youth at Gil-Galad’s court. Does he not trust in his ability to gain the upper hand should Aragorn have the first say? True, and likely what Glorfindel and others may have told him. I could hardly imagine the emotion that was running through Elrond's mind - as I was writng what I thought his motives might be, I was thinking this is a father who needs his son to know what the order of authority is. I am glad the bitterness came through. These people were not free to simply make their own choices in life, but had to consider the good of Middle-earth as well. And for Elrond of course, from this day forward he knows that even victory will lead to bitterness. How sad! I cannot wait to at least get him back in Celebrian's arms. Thank you for your comments - I appreciate knowing how people perceived the chapter!

French Pony	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/11/2005
I'm too sleep-deprived right now to be long-winded, so I won't be. I enjoyed this chapter, especially the close friendship between Elrond and Glorfindel. That Glorfindel didn't even need to speak to Elrond, just walked him outside, put a sword in his hand, and beat the stuffing out of him, and they both knew that Elrond needed it, that speaks to a deep and close understanding. Elrond is lucky to have such a friend. This is sort of like what we were discussing the other day. I'm not always in a position to right a long, detailed analytical review, but I didn't want to miss the chance to at least let you know that I read it and that I liked it. Author Reply: Elrond is lucky to have such a friend. He is and he knows it, I hope. He certainly got a raw deal in life, but as is often true, he has some great compensations and Glorfindel is one of them. *Exactly! We don't want to ever make people feel like more is expected or required. If we did, then the archive does lose some of the community feel we are trying to obtain. I am sincerely glad to konw the chapter kept you reading until the end and that you liked it.

Dot	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/11/2005
I was delighted to see this back – I’ve missed your writing! And what a fascinating chapter it is too. I might have to go back and re-read the rest of the chapters because I think I’ve forgotten little bits – how do you keep track of the time-frames??! – but that’ll be a nice treat for me one of these days ;-) Lovely opening. You made me smile with Erestor and the mouth-watering tea. I thought the line about Elrond considering his reunion with Celebrían ‘imminent’ was interesting. I hadn’t really about it like that – that in all the sorrow and pain and resignation that Elrond feels about the future, with the certainty that he will sail West, there’s still the future that he will have with his wife. It must be strange after all this time to know that he will almost certainly see his wife in the not-too-distant future. LOL at Bilbo and his verse! I get the impression that the elves are very fond of him ;-) I love the idea of Bilbo ploughing through old records and gathering information himself instead of just speaking to people who lived through those times. Which is pretty much everyone he encounters every day! And there’s both truth and sadness in the remark that "an active and curious mind well cultivated is a blessing to a mortal in the fall of life." So Boromir is on his way and Elrond has decided to call a Council. I was rather amused at the fact that Elrond didn’t bat an eyelid at being told that the man was coming to ‘solve a riddle’ but I thought it really showed his wisdom too in recognising it for what it is and acceptance that events will continue to unfold until everything builds to the climax he knows is coming. Elladan waved and Elrohir blew him a kiss as they jostled Aragorn between them affectionately, causing the grim ranger to smile Oh, I love that you made it practically identical to the scene from so many years ago. Without the silly outfits, of course… You know, I actually thought there was something rather sad about the moment where Aragorn and Elrohir both try to sit next to Arwen and Elrohir gives up the seat. Thank heavens for Glorfindel. As always. By the way, what exactly does one have to do to get one of these massages that he seems to be so good at?! I really like the sense of magic that surrounds Imladris and its elves – people knowing it’s there but none can find it unless Elrond wants them to. But was Elrohir throwing acorns at poor Boromir?? LOL. You’re doing a great job with keeping the references to Thorongil running throughout – it reminds us of Aragorn’s past, of his connection with Gondor and the ruling family, how much effort seems to have gone in to finding him again and how Denethor may be rather less than pleased at Aragorn turning up in Minas Tirith. Intriguing that so many seem to have come so close to finding him… I thought it was a wonderfully effective moment when Elrond tells Aragorn that ”your time has come” and Aragorn knows and accepts this. I also like the little detail of Aragorn moving away from Arwen but he taking his hand again – he may have to do this alone but her strength and love will help him along the way. The entire memory of just after Aragorn and Arwen pledge themselves to each other had me completely glued to the screen. You’ve made my heart break for Elrond numerous times but wow, this was just so painful. All the many emotions in everyone involved were just perfect. Nothing is straightforward. I found it very interesting that Arwen’s words, in promising herself to Aragorn, become something more, that the effects of her choice can be felt from the moment she makes this promise. Interesting too is the fact that Elrond can sense in Aragorn a link with his daughter. It’s obvious you’ve really thought about all this and I found myself utterly fascinated by it all! One moment that stood out for me in this chapter is Elrond throwing his robe “in the direction of the wardrobe.” That one action really shows us the turmoil he’s experiencing. The vision with the flower brought tears to my eyes, and I thought the part with Elrond staring at the broken vase that he had been cradling a moment before was superbly done. And, erm, have I said thank heavens for Glorfindel?! Well, I’ll say it again. That bout was probably just what Elrond needed. As was Glorfindel’s support and understanding. I was surprised at Elrond taking advantage of Glorfindel when he backed off, although it does reflect his state of mind, but I admit that I grinned when Glorfindel knocked him over! He was obviously reacting to what Elrond needed, though. The scene between Aragorn and Elrond was great. It just occurred to me that Elrond was also in a difficult position because he has to make Aragorn see that he cannot marry Arwen yet, without it sounding like he’s just saying it as her father. It does, in fairness, show a lot of respect on Aragorn’s part for Elrond that he listens to him. Even if it is a bit late for some things. But Aragorn probably needed to know that he will have Arwen at the end in order to keep him on the path, rather than just a possibility if he succeeds. And perhaps Galadriel was distanced enough to recognise that where Elrond could not. Yet Elrond is right too that Aragorn can’t be tied to anything or anyone. I imagine it’s because it could be used against him to lure him from his goal. I must say, I’m so awed by how much you’ve brought this part to life for me. In the Appendix it rather sounds like Elrond just told Aragorn that he wouldn’t be worthy of his daughter until he was king of Gondor and Arnor but you’ve brought all the threads together, and shown us the people, the pain and the sacrifices behind it. The reunion with Arwen was just… amazing. Elrond’s visions and the effect on him was almost too hard to read. His admittance to Glorfindel of the physical pain of Arwen’s choice and Glorfindel’s attempt to provide comfort and strength to his friend through his own anger, regret and sorrow just about broke my heart. And that image of Elrond sitting alone instead of with his children! sigh I was really glad to see the following scene between Elrond and Arwen, mostly because it lets us see that Arwen, though she is a source of love and strength for everyone, can still feel bitterness and pain – at having to wait when she knows that she can give strength to Aragorn, and at all that she will lose because she gave her heart to this man. Elrond’s tears are so moving too. It must be so difficult to comprehend that when his beloved Arwen is gone, life will continue without her – on both sides of the sea. I love the last line. Events are moving and Elrond sees everything come together. The Council, I suppose, also brings Elrond’s own role to a head before he hands everything over with the trust that he has prepared Aragorn as best he can and lets fate take its course. Fantastic chapter, Nilmandra! :-) Author Reply: You know, as I was writing this I was trying to sort out what kind of changes had to have happened in the relationships between the characters. Aragorn leaves very young, when he is really Estel and learning who Aragorn is, and then returns as Aragorn, this fully developed person. What do you suppose Galadriel thought when she saw him? I wonder if she thought 'he is the one, he is to be the king who restores the line of Numenor'. Surely Arwen had spoken to her about Aragorn and her feelings for him, so Galadriel sees him and she finds him worthy, so she dresses him like a king and sends him to Arwen and lets nature take its course. Who knows if she knew about Elrond's words to Aragorn. You know, I actually thought there was something rather sad about the moment where Aragorn and Elrohir both try to sit next to Arwen and Elrohir gives up the seat. I meant for that to be sad, so I am glad you saw that. The people of importance in Arwen's life have changed. No longer does a beloved brother have first place in that part of her life. Poor Elrohir! In my mind he is the more sensitive, and he has lost mother and now sister. The scene between Aragorn and Elrond was great. It just occurred to me that Elrond was also in a difficult position because he has to make Aragorn see that he cannot marry Arwen yet, without it sounding like he’s just saying it as her father. Yes! That was the intent. Elrond had to completely separate his issues with Aragorn from his role as Arwen's father. HE had to react as he would if the woman was any woman. Which meant he had to stifle his hurt and not let it drive his anger. How hard! It is a good thing Glorfindel creamed him first and exhausted him so he could think clearly. I wanted the conversation between Elrond and Arwen to be indirect, if that makes sense. They speak in words that have deep meaning, though they separate the words from themselves. An attempt to be objective, I suppose. Thank you for the analysis! As always, your way of bouncing back your interpretation of events is perfect for knowing if I accomplished what I hoped to. :>)

Mum's the Word	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/11/2005
Oh, Nilmandra, this was so beautifully written! I'm almost speechless with the beauty, the skill, the depth of your writing. You've woven together so many threads, and your expansion on the Professor's writing flows with his so seamlessly. I love so many parts of this chapter: The connections between Elrond's fea and those of his children, and between Arwen and Aragorn. The love that was not destroyed, but strengthened, by Arwen's choice. (Elrond's rubbing his chest because of the pain, and his description of sensing her choice, brought me to tears.) The description of Arwen as Aragorn's beacon. Glorfindel's healing presence, wisdom, loyalty, and practicality. The balcony scene! And Elrohir-squirrel! The wise, loving counsel Elrond gives to Aragorn and Arwen. The gentleness and lovingkindness that permeates this entire chapter, every scene. It shows the healing and re-strengthening that have occurred through the years after Celebrian sailed, and after everyone has found forgiveness over that incident. How the One does it is a mystery, but you have demonstrate that He does indeed cause all things to work together to the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. Thank you for this wonderful chapter. Blessings, Mum Author Reply: Thank you, Mum, I am glad you thought it worth waiting for! Elves really are sorrowful beings, aren't they? And Elrond in particular truly ran a race of endurance, with roadblock and painful circumstance at each turn. He truly is as one purified by the fire and not destroyed, but made stronger. I do greatly desire to see him at peace in Celebrian's arms in Valinor (already written, as I had to see him content and loved to even write this part of the story).

meckinock	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/11/2005
Good move, Nilmandra - soften us up with a few warm, comic, light-hearted scenes before you plunge us straight into Elrond's private hell. Elrond's mixed pride and sorrow at his vision of crowned Aragorn and pregnant Arwen were a perfect setup for this whole chapter. I got a kick out of Aragorn and the twins clowning around up in the balcony just like you had them doing during the events of The Hobbit. And it was amusing to imagine Bilbo painstakingly poring through dusty old volumes to do his historical research instead of just asking pretty much anyone standing around. Then comes the hard stuff. I have to say I greatly enjoyed Glorfindel kicking Elrond's tail - and literally kicking the sword away was a nice touch. As was the hot tub scene. Nothing like a nice relaxing soak after getting the stuffing kicked out of you. I think Elrond's rationalizing when it comes to any serious risk of Aragorn getting the upper hand in a conversation, though. There's only one person who regularly seems to get the upper hand on the Lord of Imladris, and he sure ain't the Chieftain of the Dunedain. I get the feeling Elrond just needed to make Aragorn stew a little. Glorfindel manages Elrond beautifully as always - letting him work through it and then gently steering him back to Wise and Lordly mode. It was nice that Glorfindel greeted Aragorn and offered him the traditional well-wishes, too, when it was obvious he was going to receive a much more muted greeting from his foster-father. Elrond's lecture to Aragorn about Doing the Right Thing was perfect. Not much he can do about the betrothal at this point; and knowing Galadriel engineered the whole thing certainly mitigates Aragorn's culpability to some extent, but this situation presented a good opportunity to warn Aragorn against those who would mislead him with bright promises. A very appropriate warning from Elrond to the heir of Isildur. The canon text was very smoothly and realistically woven into the scene in the study, I thought. I liked the addition of the line, "Your time has not yet come," which you later bookend with "Your time has come" in the Council of Elrond segment. Elrond's anguish at the burden he is placing on Aragorn and the compassion he feels for him really comes through. And his anguish for Arwen is heart-wrenching. The near-incapacitation he suffers upon her arrival was unexpected and disturbing - taking Elrond to a point where he doesn't really know where he is. But the scene that really broke my heart was later, when she comes to see him and he can't bear to look at her for fear he'll see a vision of her aging and dying. Arwen's bitterness at Elrond's decision was well-played - she'll obey him and respects his wisdom but she knows how much strength she could lend to Aragorn if she could be with him, supporting him. The last line - "he thought of how long time would continue in Arda without her" sobering. It's not easy to be Elrond. But back to the beginning - I liked the little line about how his reunion with Celebrian now seems "imminent." So it must seem to him, and it offers him some hope of happiness, at least. Author Reply: LOL, can't you just see Bilbo asking some elf to 'pass me that text' when he could just ask him and find out that said elf witnessed the events? I am glad that the Glorfindel kicking Elrond's butt around ther corner and back came through ok. Elrond needed to exhaust himself and probably have some of the spit and vinegar knocked out of him before he spoke to Aragorn. Trusty Glorfindel is always willing to help :/ I am glad the canon text worked itself in okay. I stuck in Tolkien and realized how much I didn't sound like him. There was so much going on in this, and separating pain from anger can be hard - while Elrond is angry over Aragorn's disobedience, that anger is just fed by the pain he is feeling over Arwen's choice. Elrond's private hell, indeed.

Eruanneth_Luin	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/11/2005
Welcome back. The respite must have been beneficial as this chapter is simply marvelous! Where to begin? Ah, yes, Lindir composing a Ballad of Bilbo¡¦s Verse; trust an Elf to see the enjoyment in that playful pastime. It is a special joy to find that Lindir has, indeed, a soft spot and real affection for the Hobbit. But then that is one thing we so love about Elves. ƒº And speaking of play; thank you for the glimpse of Aragorn and the twins replaying the ¡¥balcony scene¡¦. Elrond musing as to the lack of influence of the One Ring on Frodo was just another example of the danger of power to those already wielding it, whether for good or evil. (I am so envious of Bilbo¡¦s ¡¥exploring the tomes¡¦ of Imladris; it makes ones fingers fairly twitch with eagerness.) ¡¥he watched Arwen pull the filaments from them and prepare to weave them into a story of the Secondborn¡¦ Ah, what a grievous thought, but I truly am amazed by your insightful depiction. Glorfindel again demonstrates his unique role as guardian, along with his deep, abiding friendship for, and stewardship of, Elrond. This is what a true, loving friendship is all about. It is to be hoped that Glorfindel will be close by when at last Arwen leaves the confines of Arda. Tears came to my eyes during the first confrontation between Elrond and Aragorn for the pain of the one and the delight of the other; and again between Elrond and Arwen. Elrond suffered far more than most elves could have endured over the millennium of his life. Perhaps his mortal heritage supplied the strength. Author Reply: LOL, life has hardly been a respite, but a two day stomach flu kept me in bed, which apparently was enough for Elrond to get my attention. ;) I amglad you liked the chapter - I thought people would love it or hate it, but I was just so glad I was back on track, I didn't care which! Elrond did face loss after loss, yet met each one with a resilience to carry on and complete the task set before him. He understands well what it means to run a race of endurance. I was glad when the 'you shall not' of that opening quote struck me - the usage of shall in that instance is very much a command and I'm sure Tolkien new that when he wrote it. Using that gave me some good material. I am glad for Glorfindel being there to help (help knock sense into him, help him vent his anger, help him see reason...) So is Blue talking to me again, now that I've updated finally?

shirebound	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/11/2005
Rivendell is like Valinor, isn't it? Elrond keeps the seas "bent" around it unless he chooses to open a straight path for someone to travel. I never thought before that no one could find Rivendell unless Elrond allowed it. Very interesting... Welcome back, Nilmandra! Great chapter. Author Reply: It is fun to imagine how 'Rivendell could be safe for now' and Boromir couldnt' find it after 110 days... and how much of that was Elrond wielding Vilya. :>) I like the analogy of the straight road, though - that ia Tolkienesque way of saying it. Thank you...glad to be back in the swing of things.

Dreamflower	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/11/2005
What a wonderful chapter! One of the things I disliked a good deal about the films was the neglect of the relationship between Elrond and Aragorn. There was no hint that Elrond loved him as another son, nor that he had fostered him. In fact, the movies came just shy of implying that he disliked him and felt bitterness toward him for "stealing" his daughter. There were indications that he was convinced Aragorn would fail, and the whole "sending Arwen away thing" made no sense at all. The explorations of fanfic seem to more than make up for that neglect, and this is a very lovely chapter, poignant and real, showing that there was anger, but that even anger did not sunder Elrond's love for his children, both mortal and immortal. Author Reply: As I was writing, I was thinking how hard it must have been for Elrond to juggle all of those hats - he is Arwen's father and wants the best for her... he is Aragorn's father and wants the best for him... and then he has all the elf-lord responsibilities to elves and men and middle-earth to weigh his parenting concerns against. So their troth pains him deeply, but more important, Aragorn disobeyed a 'command' (in the you shall not format) and so there is the 'greater good' that has to come first. Poor Elrond. He did love his children. I had to give him a friend like Glorfindel to balance some of the pain.

SurgicalSteel	Reviewed Chapter: 9 on 11/11/2005
Sorry I've never left a review before this - I've been reading 'History Lessons' for a while... This chapter was absolutely heartbreaking - you can really feel Elrond's sorrow at his daughter's choice. Beautifully done, I enjoyed it very much! Author Reply: I could barely imagine what it must have been like for Elrond to have to play prent to both Aragorn and Arwen, and manage what is 'best' for both of them with what is best for Middle-earth, of which Elrond too is a steward, and yet it seems he is expected to set aside his own pains and sorrows. That is a great servant leader - consistently putting the greater good ahead of his own. And why he needs friends like Glorfindel to mourn and share his sorrows with him. Ack, my heart breaks for him.

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