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Good Neighbors by daw the minstrel	20 Review(s)
Dot	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
Hmm. You know, as bad as I feel for Elladan and Elrohir, it must be so very difficult for those around them to put up with them when they spend so much time brooding. That sounds harsh, I know, and I do understand where their minds wander to but Elladan in particular is verging on rude a lot of the time. I’m so glad you added in that heartbreaking line about memories and vacant places because it did remind me of just how much he is suffering and how this way of keeping his distance is probably a desperate attempt to retain some self-control. sigh Still, they’ve got to be hard to be around right now. It made me smile to see how happy Eilian was after sparring with the twins. I’d say he could really enjoy being with them in better times. But wow, his reaction to their news was just so sad. I thought it was rather interesting, though, that apart from understandably feeling shock and pain at the news, he immediately thinks about how awful it was for them and for Celebrían and is almost thankful – for his own sake as well as Lorellin’s - that his own mother didn’t experience such prolonged suffering, whereas for Thranduil her departure conjured up images of the reason and thus what the last moments of Lorellin’s life was like. It just makes me think that for all he was worried about his sons, Thranduil himself might not be faring quite as well as them. It’s a little scary, though, that Eilian felt that little thrill at the thought of fighting Orcs… Oh, I cringed when the warrior brought the news of Orcs attacking one of Esgaroth’s patrols. I suppose there was no way that little piece of information wasn’t going to get back to the twins. It’s actually kind of funny that no patrol ever seems to stay where it’s supposed to. It’s amazing all the things that happen when they’ve ventured out of their territory. Considering how slow the Men were to do anything when the Elves’ raft was shot at, and the fact the Orcs attacked Men within Esgaroth’s territory, they’re very indignant that they Elves didn’t go after them. Obviously it was terrible news for them, but I’m thinking that the Men and Elves really need to have a little chat about who’s supposed to be doing what. I’d say they’re each equally frustrated by their neighbours. And what a nightmare for poor Ithilden. This story has some lovely little educational moments! You must have spent ages researching this woodcraft stuff. Or maybe you’re just slightly freaky and knew it all already… Annael is so cute, humming happily to himself and nearly glued to Sondil’s side! He does seem like a little genius when it comes to woodcraft. I like Sondil. He’s very elfy. And he seems like a great teacher too. It’s so strange seeing the old Galelas! I must have got used to him being almost likeable after Eilian takes him under his wing. What fun this trip seems. If only they knew who was writing the story! Actually, it’d be hilarious if you shocked us all and had them really enjoy the trip, learn loads and return home safely…!! That scene in the dining room was great. I love the fact that Thranduil won’t have his guests dine in the family’s room. Go Thranduil! He’s so wonderfully protective of his family, especially when others are around. I see the Men aren’t the only ones who expected Mirkwood’s warriors to go after the Orcs. It just goes to show what a unique situation Thranduil’s realm is in. There’s something very sad about having to just accept that Orcs will come and go and sometimes there’s nothing they can do about it. Eilian should really have known better than to suggest that they do go after the Orcs. Yeah, the southern patrol would do that to a certain extent but that’s just because they’re everywhere down there and even then other captains of that patrol might not be as eager as he is to do so. He probably knows that but from his brief talk with the sons of Elrond, Orcs are undoubtedly very much on his mind. I had to laugh at the way Thranduil immediately focuses on Eilian – whatever makes him think he could possibly be the cause of any tension??! I thought that Thranduil handled Elladan beautifully. Of course, he’s used to preventing his own sons from asking things they shouldn’t or butting in where they’re not wanted but at the same time these two are so much older than Thranduil’s sons, very important Elves in the scheme of things and guests in his home. So the trick is apparently to stare at Elladan until he realises that he is interfering inappropriately. Very nice. “They are grieving, Eilian, and they are striking out at what hurt them. You remember feeling that way, I think. Do not forget what you learned when your own grief was fresh.” I loved those lines. Thranduil’s compassion is so touching. There’s no way he’d have tolerated such abruptness from anyone if he didn’t realise how much pain they’re in. And he seems to read Eilian quite well too and sees the obvious comparison. Eilian must be a little surprised at their odd behaviour, saddened by their grief and, being him, not unaffected by this need for vengeance. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he rides out in search of the Orcs with Elladan and Elrohir, or goes after the two of them, but I’m going to hope that instead of getting caught up in their anger, that he can help them. I was just thinking, though, that he actually reacted a little differently than Elladan and Elrohir. It was Thranduil and Ithilden who initially rode out to slaughter the Orcs and after that I always felt that with Eilian it was more a case of becoming reckless in an “I’m going to kill them all and who cares if I die because what have I got to lose anyway now that my mother is dead” kind of way. But he did learn how much his own family treasure him and realised his own worth. I don’t know. It’s late here and my brain isn’t working too well! I think if Mithrandir isn’t getting through to these two then words just aren’t going to do it. After all, he’s perfectly right that they could hunt Orcs in the mountains and be much nearer home. “There are memories and vacant places at home that I fear will be very hard to face.” That seemed to be a hard admission for Elladan to make and I really appreciated the little glimpse of what was under the tough exterior. The first time home again will most certainly be very difficult but at the same time it has to be faced sometime. So these two will go after the Orcs? I must say, I’m utterly gripped by this story. I’m just dying to know how it all goes. There was something quite foreboding about this chapter, so bring on the next one! :-) Author Reply: I'm having a hard time writing about the twins because they're new characters for me, so I keep trying to remind myself of what I know about them and then try to reason about how they would act. I finally decided that Elladan in particular is having trouble voicing his feelings, which is why Elrohir was surprised when he admitted to trepidation about going home. I think they're both wrapped up in themselves right now and having trouble thinking about others. I think they'd be able to observe polite customs but have trouble with the kind of politeness that comes from really considering what the other person is feeling. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :-) The Men and the Elves do need to work out how to be "good neighbors," I think. One of the things I'm interested in in this story is the relationship between elves and men, specifically how it works for Thranduil. By the time of The Hobbit, the men say he's their friend. So I'm sort of coaxing him along a little over time. The twins have a different relationship, obviously, and so does Mithrandir. I found two wonderful websites about tracking. I had to stop myself from flooding you with much more information about this stuff! I love Annael. He has the best family situation of the three friends, I think. He has both a mother and a father who are smart and sensitive and attentive. Legolas is lucky to have him and his family in his life. So is Turgon, actually, but it's hard to see the effect there! Thranduil can read Eilian pretty well, I think, and probably knows exactly what's on his mind. And Eilian is not a 2500 year old son of the ruler of another elven realm. He's 90 and Thranduil's own responsibility. I think your reading of Eilian's reaction to his mother's death is spot on. He still wants to fight Orcs; he's just also moved on with his life. And I think that's what the twins need to do. Foreboding? Riding after Orcs? Dot, how can you think those things? :-)

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
Sorry. I was just getting confused between 'S' elves - Siondel, Sorion and Sondil - and in sorting them out just wondered. Annael's grandfather is mentioned a couple of times, I think - his death and something to do with his sword. I had to check for Annael's wife's name, too. Just to know. And Tolkien really manages to irritate me intensely by naming so few of the mothers and maternal lines. And, come to that, considering what I'm doing at the moment - the Princes of Dol Amroth aren't even named from Galador's son to Imrahil's great grandfather - 17 generations of nameless men with dates of birth and death. And their sons arrived by spontaneous cloning apparently as there is no indication of wives. Author Reply: I noticed that Sondil's name was a lot like Siondel's as I was writing this, but I made them up at different times for different stories. Now I moan about them, but they each seemed like a good idea at the time! I suppose it's no worse than Finwe, Fingolfin, Fingon, Finarfin, and Finrod! I believe the autobiography of John Stuart Mill starts out something like "I was born the son of James Mill" and goes on from there. Mpreg?

sofia	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
This chapter seemed very tense. Not the part with Legolas and his companions- that wasn't tense. The twin's seem so mysterious in this story... -sofia Author Reply: I'm having fun writing about the twins. We are seeing them only through the eyes of others right now, and I think that makes them mysterious. And in a way, their grief and anger make them mysterious too. They are far removed from ordinary life right now.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
Just a question, if you don't mind. Annael's parents are Siondel and Elowen, I think, but Siondel's adar who was killed at the end of the Watchful Peace - does he have a name? (I just like family trees.) Author Reply: Not that I know of. And may I say this was the most unexpected question I've had as an author? :-)

esamen	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
Wow. That was quick! You must have this story really internalized! I'll bet you can visualize every detail. I am SO impressed with the amount of underlying information that you use when you write these scenes. It's just like Tolkien :-) getting all the background and details crystal-clear, and then allowing the story to unfold! **** The warrior glanced at Ithilden again. “We did not look. We were busy with the wounded, and the Orcs went southwest in any case, so they are out of our area.” Ithilden nodded once in grim approval. Very telling portrait of Ithilden. He has to be this strong and forceful if he's the troop commander. Anything less intense just wouldn't be enough. This really highlights his tender heart that we see later with Alfirin . . . makes those moments even more precious. He's kind of being his own foil here. ******* “There are twenty-five warriors in the Eastern Border Patrol,” Ithilden said sharply, “and their area runs from thirty miles north of the Forest River to thirty miles south of it. I cannot send any of them off to hunt a passing Orc band, particularly given that I am now going to have to send someone to guard the river.” Ditto that comment above about knowing much, much more than you actually spell out for the reader. This sentence gives the story so much depth and validity! I can feel the strain and effort of the elves, their courage as they fight for their homeland and lifestyle, in the face of very little hope that they can maintain it indefinitely. Great job researching these details. ******** “There is nothing you can do,” Thranduil told him bleakly. “We have problems of our own.” This line gives me a new sense of Thranduil and Ithilden's relationship. They seem so much on the same page right here. Although not every reader might feel this way, I feel as if Thranduil is (almost) speaking to Ithilden as an equal, as a comrade in arms, not as his superior. They share a unique position, one who is king for now, and one who will probably be king in the future . . . I felt that this line of dialogue reflected a moment when Thranduil was sharing a thought with one of the few others who understood his heart. ********** Mithrandir grunted in reply. He had known these two a long time. I was anticipating some really intimate dialogue here, like the kind of conversations "Gandalf" might have with Merry or Pippin. Now, I am sure that Imladris elves have a more formal vocabulary than hobbits, but couldn't Mithrandir be one of the few people who could really get in there and tell these two to sit down and listen? Yes, I know that's what he's doing . . . you are showing it . . . but he could concievably take off the gloves and get even a little more, ah, testy? or crusty? (as Pippin would say)? Or avuncular, in academic-ese? He's one of the few in M-e who could . . . you might give it a test drive . . . it would be fun for SOMEONE to scold them. ("I don't care if you are 2500 years old . . . " LOL). It would be fun for someone to scold Thranduil, too, come to think of it. Well, you must do as you see best . . . I know that the twins' state of grief and rage might preclude such a scene . . . the story is absolutely fabulous and I am loving every minute of it. Anyway, bows and cheers for another amazing chapter! Every time I read a new Daw story, I think it's my favorite so far. Now, I hope that we have dire straits, deadly peril, fabulous blade and bow action, and tons of h/c coming our way! Just love this stuff! Thanks and love across the miles, Esamen Author Reply: I write reams of backstory for myself and reuse it. That description of the Eastern Border Patrol was first written for "The Warrior," because that patrol was the first one Legolas was posted to. I just looked it up again. I feel sorry for Ithilden sometimes. He seems so weighed down by responsibility and has been from the time he was quite young by Elven standards. Alfirin was really good for him. She and Sinnarn gave him a life apart from his duty. His mother would have approved, I think. :-) In the meantime, I do think that he and his father understand one another pretty well most of the time. Thranduil respects him and knows that he is lucky to have him. Ithilden is the only son whom Thranduil sees as fully adult at the moment. I struggled with that scene between Mithrandir and the twins. It's partly that these are new characters for me. And then the twins are hard to write about because there's so much fanon out there that doesn't respect the fact that they're 2500 year old Elf lords. I'll probably know how I should have written them by the time I'm done!

Brazgirl	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
I loved when Thranduil entered the hall! He is very sensitive to some things. The boys camping was very nice. That elf I forgot his name, when Sondil called them elflings... children at their age simply hate that! It makes me recall some things that happened in my own life. You said in you reply you find Ithilden arrogant? I think this is funny!!! You think he is arrogant and it matches with the readers opinion... thought I like him. Not as much as Thranduil and Eilian, but I like him. I have started to read your fics only recently and I would love to read the one the family reacts to the Queen's loss. How is the title of it??? An antecipated thanks for this... Author Reply: Thranduil is shrewd and takes the emotional temperament of a room pretty quickly, I think. He would not have ruled for as long as he has without learning to do that. I had a good time looking up stuff for the camping trip. And I too had to laugh at what was probably the look of disgust on Turgon's face at being called an "elfling." The queen's death tends to run through my stories. I think it was a shaping event in Legolas's life. I have an account of all of them trying to recover a few months after her death. That's called "When Shadow Touches Home." And there's a flashback to the immediate aftermath of her death in "See the Stars" (chapter 4, I think). And I just finished "Path of Memories," which is set right after her death, although it's mostly flashbacks to the childhoods of the three sons. Maybe one of those is what you are looking for.

French Pony	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
If my Girl Scout troop had been as interesting as that woodcraft trip, I would so have made Cadette and Senior Girl Scout and maybe been a Girl Scout leader. Legolas and Annael and Turgon get to learn how to read bear tracks. I got to learn how to make peanut butter cookies, which I don't even like. So not fair! And the twins' therapy veers and crashes. Four chapters was a pretty good run, but all things must come to an end. They're too old to be ordered around, and neither Thranduil nor Mithrandir has much authority over them anyway. I have to respect Thranduil for agreeing to at least try to deal with them. They're not an easy pair to have around right now, and it's not like Thranduil has vast wodges of spare time to give them the coddling they need right now. He's got three kids of his own; he doesn't need two more. Thranduil held his peace until everyone else had moved away from them. Then he said, “They are grieving, Eilian, and they are striking out at what hurt them. You remember feeling that way, I think. Do not forget what you learned when your own grief was fresh.” An interesting statement. It sounds as if Thranduil isn't really addressing Eilian (Eilian hasn't spoken since Thranduil came in the room, and only has two lines in this scene), but is talking to the House of Oropher at large. Eilian, as the youngest present, gets to be the designated target. Author Reply: I had so much fun looking up stuff about tracking and woodcraft. Sondil came out sounding like some sort of Zen master of the woods! I thought that was elfy, actually. I struggled a bit with how Mithrandir or Thranduil would speak to the twins. It's tempting to treat them as younger and less experienced than they are, because you see them in fanon like that all the time. But they are 2500 year old sons of the lord of Imladris. They're warriors. They are not children. And yet no one is going to be willing to watch them do something careless, either. So all anyone can do is show concern and give advice. Thranduil's worry is really for his own sons, I think. I suspect he barely knows the twins. But he knows Eilian in particulary only too well, and Eilian is only 90. Bryn once a line in a story about the "notoriously rash House of Oropher." I like that line a lot and see it as appropriate.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
This popped up at just the right moment to stop my brain imploding. The poor twins - this is really the first time that I've thought that they would be better off without each other (not in a something nasty happening, just not so exclusive). They are so self-absorbed in their misery, that they are not thinking of anyone else. Poor Elrond. Abandoned again. They can't bear to stay near Rivendell - and yet there Thranduil and Ithilden are - working and living in the very environment that is redolent of Lorellin. Eilian, of course, pops off south most of the time - but, having confronted the memories of home is, I should say definitely better for them. I wonder if Eilian will see how far he has come since his naneth died and how grief changes over time. He's still very much an orc-slayer, but he's not a beserker - and I don't think he has been since he realised that he had to come home for little Legolas. I also hope he has enough sense of self-preservation not to head off with or after the twins without express permission. Twenty five warriors in the Eastern patrol - that's not many, even if they are elves, to keep on top of the orc explosion and make up for the reduced number of men available. I wonder if the Men have a bit of an inflated idea of the powers of elves - doubtless encouraged by Thranduil. Galelas definitely improved with time. Probably once he was no longer living at home with his idiot parents worshipping his ghastly brother, his better qualities were able to emerge. And super-captain Eilian helped tremendously. I love Annael. He is just such an all-round gorgeous child. And Turgon hasn't created havoc yet - he's slipping - but there's still time. Sondil - definitely brave. Can't wait to see what happens next. Author Reply: The twins are interesting to consider. They do support one another, but if they are both feeling the same thing, and that thing is negative, then what does that support mean? They understand one another, yes. But how do they get out of it? I think time is part of the healing process and their mother has just sailed. They haven't been home since she left. I really think the question is how do they survive until they begin to regain their balance. And who would ever have thought that having orcs in your own backyard would be better than having to leave home to hunt them? And yet, that's what seems to be the case. I am reminded of children evacuated from London during the blitz. Studies suggest that those who stayed with their parents felt more secure even though the situation was more dangerous. Thranduil's sons have been in a situation like that. Annael is such a sweetie! Of the three friends, he has the most ideal parents, I think. They're both there; they're both wise; and they're both attentive. And he's just humming with happiness on this trip!

Jay of Lasgalen	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
What a pity that orcs attacked just now, so that Elladan and Elrohir learned of it. It was obvious that they would go after them - and I wouldn't be surprised if Eilian doesn't join them. His reaction when he learned about Celebrían shows how raw the grief still is for him as well. E3 hunting orcs together - at least one of them wil get hurt, I fear. I can understand why the twins keep up with their quest - they don't want to go home; there are too many memories there. Elladan's words were very sad: “There are memories and vacant places at home that I fear will be very hard to face.” On a lighter note, the tracking and woodcraft lesson was most interesting! I see Galelas hasn't changed at all, either. Author Reply: Are you sure you haven't been looking at my notes for this story, Jay? LOL. I guess you know these characters pretty well. I really feel for the twins. They haven't been home yet since their mother left. The first time back will be terrible. And yet, they need their family and don't need too much of one another, I think. I had a ton of fun looking up tracking and woodcraft stuff. It seemed very elfy to me.

elliska	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 11/9/2004
Oh those twins are going to get themselves in trouble and really rile Thranduil in the process! Maybe Eilian will learn something, seeing something of himself in them. Poor Mithrandir. I would not want to be him at this moment. I loved the woodcraft lesson. I honestly think Annael is my favorite OC of yours. He is so very likable and such a good friend for Legolas. I love how he is such a good woodcraft student. I would have liked to have seen Turgon punch Galelas but I guess that would have ended the lesson. The news about the orcs was bad all around. The direction this is going is getting scary. Great chapter and such a treat. Should be working. Oh well. Author Reply: It's hard to know what to do about the twins. They are 2500 year old elven warriors, the fully adult children of the lord of Imladris. So one can advise and show concern as one would for a friend, and as ruler of the Woodland Realm, Thranduil could forbid some things and order others, I suppose. But they aren't his subjects or his sons and can just leave if they want to. I have had so much fun looking stuff up for this story. I had TONS of stuff on tracking. I love Annael. He's just humming along, he's so happy doing this. I have 5 pages of the next chapter written, all camping trip stuff, that I originally thought would be in this chapter, but decided needed to come later. We'll see. I have to go teach in 10 minutes, but it's just upstairs. :-)

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