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Tangled Web by daw the minstrel	35 Review(s)
insignia	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/8/2004
Really enjoying this story, and this chapter was a nail-biter indeed! I was worried that you might be about to kill off Eilian, as we saw him thinking about going back to Celuwen - and then we didn't see very much of him at all for the rest of the battle ... Your picture of Legolas's slight uncertainty when he realised that Thranduil was going to be in command was interesting, implying that Legolas has more confidence in Ithilden than in his father. But then, he has never been under Thranduil's command so I suppose it was natural for him to go on thinking that Ithilden would be in charge. I liked the way you wrote the battle. It was very realistic (to me, anyway) and showed how individuals got caught up in the adrenaline rush and came down to (middle) earth with a tremendous bump. I have not read the Hobbit (what heresy and what an admission, but I couldn't get into it when I tried it after reading the Ring trilogy) so I was seeing events for the first time. It all held together really well for me, and the bats sound just disgusting! It was reassuring to see Eilian and Logolas comforting each other. Although I like your stories for their character portrayls, I also like it when you get into action sequences - more direct thrills and tension! Will we be seeing any of your writing for events post RotK? Thanks again. insignia Author Reply: I have to admit I was toying with readers a little about Eilian. I didn't show him and then I had Legolas be summoned to Thranduil's tent first. But in the long run, Thranduil's sons and grandson survived because of the good spirits the king shows at the end of "The Hobbit." He just didn't seem like an Elf who was grieving for a personal loss. The outline of the battle (including the bats) follows Tolkien as faithfully as I can but I tried to make it more personal by showing how it looked to the warriors who were in it. I think that to them it was exhilirating and chaotic and terrible all at once. So when the adrenaline drained out, as you say, they needed one another's comfort. I won't write about post RotK right away anyway. I'll go back in time probably, or maybe do some stuff that happens between this battle and the quest. Gollum crosses Mirkwood twice in search of his lost preciousss and Gandalf got the wood elves to help search for him. That has always struck me as a good Southern Patrol activity.

Jebb	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/8/2004
Oh so many lovely elves killed and Sinnarn badly injured death and despair and horror which is of course what happens in battle this was very sensitvely handled and close to the battle in the book but much more personal because you feel you know the elves who have been killed poor Ithilden to lose so much and come close to loosing even more Adar wil need all his strength for his family now but who will give him support I wonder thank you Author Reply: Thank you, Jebb. In a way, I'm glad you thought the battle was horrible. I meant it to be horrible. Even though the Elves won, the battle itself was painful and chaotic. Ithilden has taken a blow to his most vulnerable area: his care of his family. I think he took the death of his mother hard (as they all did) and he's really bent on protecting those he loves. Seeing his son fall in battle must have about killed him, even though it turned out that Sinnarn was only injured. And Thranduil is wonderful with him, becoming adar again for this oldest, strongest son.

Jay of Lasgalen	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/8/2004
Poor Todith, Nithron and Galelas! I'd guessed Galelas would die - maybe his family will realise what they've lost - and probably one of the keepers. I was afraid for a moment that you might kill Sinnarn as well. Nithron's death is going to be hard for Sinnarn and Ithilden to deal with, I think - besides their grief, Sinnarn is going to blame himself. Thranduil was awesome, as always, and Ithilden's reactions were very well portrayed. I also liked Eilian's and Legolas's reaction when they were told to go to Thranduil's tent. They must have feared the worst. I'm looking forward to the aftermath of battle, and everyone's reactions to the dreadful losses. Jay Author Reply: I really wanted to kill Sinnarn. It would have been a more dramatic move. But at the end of "The Hobbit," Thranduil is so cheerful that it didn't seem possible he had just lost a beloved grandson. Killing Sinnarn felt uncanonical, even though he's an OC! Ithilden is interesting to write about. I think his family is his vulnerable point, particularly his wife and son. He's so controlled and strong, but those two are the ones who give him a life away from duty, who allow him to be himself and not just the troop commander.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/7/2004
What a powerful piece of writing. Love the chopping and changing of POV - really echoes the chaos of battle, and the huge number of wounded and the revoltingness of bats feeding on the wounded. Poor Legolas and Eilian - and Ithilden. The First Big Battle must be terrible traumatic, even to those who have been fighting in skirmishes for hundreds of years. I am glad that, if one of the keepers had to go, it was Nithron, whom I felt I knew less. I was afraid Maltanaur was for the chop after the way his wife greeted him earlier. I thought Galelas would be killed - I had him on my list as sacrificing himself to save Eilian. And Todith. But I thought Thranduil seemed too cheery later for any of his immediate family to have been killed - although it will take all of them a long time to recover from the grief caused by this battle. Now I know who has been sacrificed, I can go back and read it again more slowly to pick up the details. (I have to say this is a much more dramatic version of the battle than in the Hobbit. And knowing more of the characters makes it much more involving too.) Author Reply: The bats were disgusting. I took them straight from Tolkien, but he writes this battle from a bird's eye view and when you look through the warriors' eyes, it's much worse. He also says that almost no one escaped unwounded. Very sobering. You made very acute guesses about who would die and why. Sinnarn is alive only because of Thranduil's good cheer in the last chapter of "The Hobbit." I wavered about killing him even for the first five or so chapters of this story, but in the end, it just felt too uncanonical (even though he's an OC). Maltanaur was a possibility, but my beta was very distraught by that idea! She loves the guy. And Nithron was the easiest for me to part with too. The chapter was gut-wrenching enough to write without making it worse. Actually, Galelas did die for Eilian in an indirect way: he stepped in between an Orc and Legolas, who was carrying the wounded Beliond off the field. And he did it because he knew how Eilian felt about his younger brother. I feel the worst about him. Surely Mandos will be kind.

Elena Tiriel	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/7/2004
This is extremely powerful writing, Daw. I cried both times that I read this chapter. I have read that part of the The Hobbit very recently, but your descriptions pull me into the battle in a very personal way that Tolkien's didn't. The messages to Legolas and Eilian that they were to go to their father's tent were heart-wrenching... it's like when you get a phone call at 3 in the morning, and you want to yell "Just tell me who died!" I hope you can recover soon from writing such a wrenching chapter... - Barbara Author Reply: Thank you, Barbara. I used Tolkien's wonderful account of the battle and tried to show it though my characters' eyes, from on the ground rather than from overhead, so to speak. And from on the ground, there's chaos and terror and savagery and pain. It was hard to write. Dorothy

Alice	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/7/2004
Man, you killed Galelas! And Nithron and Todith and possibley Sinnarn! I'm not surprised but I'm not happy either. I really liked Galelas. A good friend of mine has a family like his and I always felt a certain affection for him. Poor elf. And then you killed him. (sighs)I knew you were going to do it to. Darn it. Oh well, the nice thing about your stories is that I know you'll probably do one of Legolas at a younger age and Galelas will still be alive in that one. I just hope Galelas's parents finally realize just how much he meant to them if a little bit belatedly. This was certainly an exciting chapter! Scene where someone's in serious trouble, scene change before you can see who's dead and alive! That certainly kept the dramatic tension high. I kept reminding myself that Beliond,Amdir and Annael where all alive and well in A Question of Duty. That entire battl scene wasjust scary though. I mean there were not only orcs and wargs in a horribley large number but there were bats too which I kind of pictured making everything dark. Squeeky also. Not a fun battle to be in. And it was a full-fledged battle not the normal quick, almost squirmish battles the woodelves normally take part in. There was an actual army. I did enjoy this chapter though. I liked how Sinnarn saved Annael. If he lives through this I don't think he'll have any trouble with convincing Emmelin's parents that he is worthy of their precious baby. I certainly think so. He's shown real nobility and character and courage in this story and I'm really attached to him. Please don't make him die. (does puppy dog eyes)And I liked how Eilian disapproved of Legolas's hero worship of Bard. Me thinks the elvish captain is just a teensy bit jealous. Heh and Beliond had lively language. I kind of wonder where exactly he picked all of those vivid words from. I'm sad about Nithron and Todith too. What a horrible way to get promoted. Nithron was cool though. The keepers have a serious job that when you think about it boils down to throwing yourself in front of an arrow meant for your charge. That takes serious bravery and loyalty. I really hope Thranduil's payingthem well. I don't doubt that he does. Well, lovely chapter. Don't keep us in suspense too long about Sinnarn's fate. Author Reply: I feel terrible about Galelas actually. I have to keep reminding myself that none of these people is real. And yes, you're so right. It's comforting to know that I can bring them all back to life just by moving to an earlier time frame. The battle was tough to write about. I had to follow Tolkien's outline, which, as you say, was much more full-scale than the little skirmishes in the woods that I usually create. The more I read Tolkien's description, the more respect I had for him. He was just masterful at giving a sweeping picture of the battle without getting too specific. Sinnarn will survive. I suppose I'm giving away a plot point, but not a bit one. As I read the end of "The Hobbit," Thranduil just doesn't act like someone who has lost a close relative. And yes, indeed, Eilian was jealous of Legolas's reaction to Bard. I wonder how he'll feel about Aragorn?

Lera	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/7/2004
Oh, my gosh. This is so sad! I am crying right now. I liked Todith every time he appeared, from when Legolas was first in his patrol, from when he took Ithilden's place while Ithilden was with the white counsel. Oh, Galelas. Poor, poor guy. And Nithron. He saved Sinnarn and now Sinnarn will have to live with that. If he lives. You won't let him die will you? This is so sad. But I must give you credit, this was a bloody battle and you were true to that. How did you ever decide you to kill? Did it make you cry? Well, I can't end this with "great chapter" like I normally do. I'm too sad. I don't really know how to end this review. Thank goodness for the eagles I guess. Author Reply: In truth, I am still depressed from writing this chapter. I usually write first thing in the morning, but today I just don't feel like it. Oh well. The air conditioning repair guy is coming anyway. Sinnarn will be ok. If you look at the end of "The Hobbit," you see that Thranduil is in a pretty good mood and I didn't think he would be if a grandson had died. That's what made me decide not to kill him actually. I made a list of OCs and thought about who would be well-known enough that readers would care about them. Also I wanted a person who would be significant for each of the sons of Thranduils. And in "A Question of Duty," which is set later, Legolas is captain of the Home Guard, so that made Todith a likely target. I feel really bad about Galelas. Todith and Nithron at least had long lives, but Galelas just had such a crummy family and he was young. Sigh. The next chapter should be happier -- spring after a long winter, as Tolkien says.

French Pony	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/7/2004
Especially interesting to read this chapter immediately upon coming home from fencing class. For the record, I immediately recognized the tension of waiting for the battle to come to you rather than rushing out to meet it. It's a great strategy, and it's one of the two hardest things I've learned in the past year. In fact, just tonight, I was fencing with a B-rated fencer (I'm unrated, mainly for lack of money) who will take every advantage I give him if I move too quickly. So I forced myself to wait, even after I was ahead 4 - 2, which is the biggest lead I've ever had on him. And even though it took all my concentration not to charge, I refrained and scored the winning touch on a riposte! All of which is to say that I know from battle, and you wrote it very well, and I should know. Now, let's see how I did on the Fickle Finger of Fate wagering. . . Hmm. Galelas, Nithron and Todith. I figured Todith would get iced, just because you have too many characters whose names start with the letter T, and neither Tonduil nor Tynd were in the battle that I noticed, and Tinar is such a great irritant. Todith seems to have worn out his welcome. Legolas doesn't need him any more. I also figured either Galelas or Gelmir would buy it; Galelas because you've turned him into a sympathetic figure a la Boopsie suddenly getting assertive right before B.D. loses his leg, and given him a Heart-Wrenching Scene (sort of like what would have happened if Faramir had been killed, I think); and I kind of figured Gelmir's time was nearly up because since Eilian and Celuwen have gotten married, he's been kind of a fifth wheel. But he had that other wound, so I guess he gets a pass. As for the keepers, I wondered if you'd kill off any of them. I was almost hoping you would, so we could see if they'd actually do their jobs to the ultimate and take the bullet for their principals. But I guessed Maltanaur instead of Nithron, so . . . close, but no cigar. And Legolas seems to be taking care of Beliond much more than Beliond takes care of Legolas. Our boy's growing up, and is almost to the point where he can tell Beliond to put a sock in it and go back to Mirkwood without him. Also fun to see the Eagles in action. I figure Tolkien never could figure out what to do with them, because the few times he mentions them, the POV characters just have time to cry out that the Eagles are coming before they conveniently pass out. I have finally gotten to see Eagles in action, and I am content. And I did spot the entrance of what I assume is Beorn, though Legolas doesn't seem to recognize him. Funny, that. I wonder how common bears are in Mirkwood, or how much the Elves know about the Beornings. Finally, a lovely scene of the family elders being completely incapacitated and needing to rely on the younger children for help. That's how Eilian and Legolas will know they've finally arrived at full adulthood; the responsibility of caring for Thranduil and Ithilden has fallen on their relatively young shoulders, and they have risen to the occasion. Good for them. Now let us all sing for the dead. Author Reply: Your fencing must really give you a different and more insightful perspective on stories that involve battle and particularly those that involve swordplay. I don't like competition in general and avoid it when I can, so I have to guess at a lot of these things. You're good at guessing who was going to buy it! Todith was an easy decision. In "A Question of Duty," which is set later, Legolas is captain of the Home Guard, so this opened the way for that. I considered Gelmir, because I wanted someone who was reasonably close to Eilian, but I thought Galelas would be more heart wrenching and once I had decided I couldn't kill Sinnarn (Thranduil is much too cheerful at the end of "The Hobbit" to have lost a son or grandson), Galelas was it. And I also considered Maltanaur, but he turned out to have a keeper of his own in the form of my beta, who is very fond of him. I thought there probably would be bears in Mirkwood. It's the right kind of climate and forest, and Beorn seems to have bears visit him. As to whether the wood elves would know about Beorn, that's a good question. Now that I think about it, I'll bet they do. Maybe Legolas doesn't though. :-) Let us all sing for the dead indeed. I think the funerals of the Elves will be back home, but we have to bury Thorin.

Ms. Whatsit	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/7/2004
This was an action-packed chapter--it went by in a whirl and jumped from one emotion to the next, very much like a real battle. I had Todith, Galelas and Sinnarn marked down as Likely To Be Killed. I was, sadly, right about two, and not-yet-wrong about the third, it seems. What a way for Legolas to become Home Guard Captain, hmm? And poor Galelas. Legolas doesn't know about his death yet, it would seem--that would hit him hard, I think, since even though he never really liked Galelas, he did train with him at a very young age. So few people write battle scenes well--and you did. I knew what was going on at every moment but still had this overwhelming sense of chaos that would naturally be part of a battle. I thought Legolas looking back to Dagorlad was a good touch. I bet it did look a bit like that to the Wood-elves at first--especially if you consider that some of the warriors were probably at Dagorlad. Nithron's death was particularly touching because as Sinnarn's bodyguard, it's his job--as it is Maltanaur's and Beliond's--to die for his charge, but we don't really notice it when we read about him. The other characters just sort of thought about the "keepers" as funny old curmudgeons, and most of the time don't think about what their job means--and now it's driven home to them. If Sinnarn lives, he'll have a hell of a lot of guilt to deal with. (Poor guy--haven't you been mean enough to him?) Author Reply: I'm glad the battle went by "in a whirl." It felt endless as I was writing it because I was following Tolkien's outline rather than doing the little skirmish things I make up on my own. I think that Legolas will feel bad about Galelas, especially since I meant to imply that he died jumping in front of that orc that attacked as Legolas was carrying Beliond away. Galelas was supposed to save Legolas (even though he doesn't like him much) because he knows how precious Legolas is to Eilian. I thought about Dagorlad as I was writing because Tolkien does say that the elves charged first. I thought that was very wood-elfy! And Sinnarn will recover, although you're right that I have been mean. :-(

erunyauve	Reviewed Chapter: 16 on 7/7/2004
Beautifully done - you illustrate the battle in a way that helps it to make sense from the point of view of the warriors rather than a bird's eye view as it is told in The Hobbit. And I'm a little sniffly over Todith and Galelas and Nithron (Sinnarn will recover, right?). Galelas' family will hopefully realize what they've lost, though it won't do him much good now. Author Reply: Thank you, Erunyauve. That's just how I explained it to my husband when I was working on it: it's the battle as seen from on the ground rather than overhead. Sinnarn will recover. I did seriously consider killing him, but in the end, felt that I couldn't because Thranduil is just not sad enough at the end of "The Hobbit." As for Galelas, I just hope Mandos is kind (he died heroically, after all) and he finds a nice maiden waiting for him in Valinor.

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