Reviews (1,565)

I do not envy any of those who will try to 'bring together' this disparate group of elves.... Yikes! So many cultures, kings, loyalties.... It seems the melting pot has tipped and overflowed. Great chapter....

Ah, love those Valarian wildberry pies, they keep on going and going and going! Hope everyone enjoys the feast and the conversation makes it back to the right people. Yes, I did recognise your referance to Maier Games! More please, Lynda

*nearly falls off chair with laughter at the wild berry pie scene* Ai, atar indonyo! :) That was too, too funny. I loved the whole chapter...every bit...although I worry for the elves who still need to reconcile with the Amaneldi, I hope this Progress works. But the pie scene resonated with me especially because of a tale told to me by my grandpa. His mother baked two pies every day. After supper she'd cut one pie into fourths, and serve first my great-grandpa, then herself, then the two children (my grandpa and his sister). And then after that, my great-grandpa and my grandpa each ate a fourth of the second pie. Then, the kids would be sent to bed. The next morning, the rest of the pie was gone, because my great-grandpa ate it when no one was looking! :D Sneaky of him, wasn't it? Tye-melin, Atar Fiondil! Kaylee!

"...to start breaking down the barriers so that we stop thinking of ourselves as either Amaneldi or Tol Eressëans; as Noldor, Vanyar, Teleri, or Sindar; as Native, Immigrant, Returnee or even Reborn. We are all elves and once we were a single people. It’s time we were again." Yes, they were once a single people but when was that? Way too long ago, in my opinion. In the times before Orome came to summon them to live in Valinor, then the Quendi were a single nation. Is there a coincidence, Fiondil, that the same Vala popped up just when Arafinwe was saying it? However, in my view, they are too divided to be there the slightest chance for this to happen. I'm sorry for saying this, but I don't believe that the Elves could be someday a single people again. Not until Dagor Dagorath, anyway. Too much time, too many divergences, too much bad blood between them. The best Arafinwe and Olwe can hope for is, from my point of view, to achieve some degree of respect and tolerance between the Elven nations. Of course, that degree could vary. "grin" As for the problem of a government for Tol Eressea...I must confess I'm clueless, for the moment. Ought to re-read some parts of "The last messenger", methinks. For some reason, everytime I've been reading about "Sere Valaron" , I used to associate it with "Pax Romana" and I never liked very much the similarity. Moreover, I certainly wouldn't want to see a sort of a replica of the Roman Empire, less the conquering part, build in Valinor.

I thought I'd recognized the names of the hunters but until they actually mentioned their youthful encounter with the Maiar, I didn't recall the details. :) I love how your different tales eventually seem to link up with EI, and how the "population" keeps growing! I didn't get home until after midnight last night from a day spent in another state getting to visit with my beloved great-aunt (81 years young!) whom I hadn't seen in over 10 years, and so am very, very tired and finding it hard to put my thoughts together right now, but even as I feel ready to doze back off again, I just had to tell you that I liked this chapter very much, and that it made me smile. I'll have to remember to make an extra wild berry pie if Lord Orome comes to call on me! *grin* As always, well done!

Quoting Yeats, are you? ;-) I suppose this in a hint that Interesting Times are coming (Ancient Chinese Curse version). I suppose the problem of not having a King on Tol Eressëa is rather perplexing to the Amaneldi. If the locals manage to govern themselves, fine. But I think that at least the older generation is feeling rather lost without one. The younger elves, who haven’t really had the experience of living under the rule of a king might or might not want a King to rule them once the other Kings start getting Reborn. What the political fallout on Tol Eressëa will be, I don’t know – perhaps something like the government of The Republic of Venice? And I suppose some of those who grow up under such a government may want to take it with them when they migrate to the mainland. (More political fun and games...) And then there is Thingol and the Sindar. In _Lúthien’s Gift_ you indicated that he did not want to take up the crown again, but preferred to be Olwë's viceroy. Yet I suppose they also need a government – and I _also_ suppose that while some will accept the rule of other Kings. But for those who do _not_ want a Noldorin king – perhaps Dior will step into his daeradar’s shoes? You haven’t written anything with him as yet, so I suppose you can do with him whatever you want ;-) And since you dealt with his sons as Elves, I suppose you may do the same with him. Olwë and Arafinwë’s attitudes of “We are all elves and once we were a single people. It’s time we were again” is a good goal. While there _are_ cultural differences between the various tribes, it will be important for the various groups to treat each others with respect, at least. And the kings certainly don’t want the Sérë Valaron to be broken more than it already has. Hmmm. This was rather a lot of political speculation. I suppose that if I must blame it on something, the current heat wave here in Norway is an excellent excuse ;-) The ellyn certainly has a fantastic story for their parents. Imagine – having dinner with with two ruling Kings, Beleg Cúthalion, The Balrog Slayer the former King of Nargothrond and _two of the Valar_!!! Though perhaps they won’t be saying too much about how they met... ;-)

You know, it’s no wonder the Elves of Tol Eressëa didn’t believe much about this visit of the Maiar back then. Who would believe the story about moving stones and the like, after all? *grin* Though *if* the parents of the three elflings would have known their story, they might not be so bitter, that’s true. Oh well. It’s not too late to change that, I guess. The situation is quite complicated, isn’t it? The younger Elves don’t want a king, while their parents look for the kings of Beleriand for guidance – and for so many of them. I’m beginning to think the solution would have to be something like the quadrature of the circle – and that could prove difficult to achieve. Well, I’m glad to know the tournament had such an impact – and positive impact! – on the Tol Eressëans. Even if the outcome was not exactly what the Valar (and probably the kings) had hoped, it did some good, as I thought before. Oromë and Vana turning up and the banter about that famed wild berry pie was the icing on the cake *grin* I really like the easy way the kings and Reborn have with the Valar. So, Olwë doesn’t remember issuing an invitation to dinner for these two? *evil grin* Anyway, that day will be unforgettable for the six hunters, and I think it will go a long way to convince them about the good intentions of both the Amaneldi and the Valar. And I am glad to see Pelendur making a first little step towards his son. Very enjoyable chapter, Fiondil!

A sad tle, but it does appear he knew a fulfilling life nevertheless. Now, for Pelendur to stop popping all the Noldor who left into the same basket, and to come to accept his son as he is!

"keep the reborn occupied and out of trouble" That´s a mighty goal the elven kings have set themselves. If they´re going to succeed though... my money´s one the reborn! I really had the urge to give poor Celepharn a hug there and the tale of Haldir and Gwilwileth was very touching. In some way I understand Haldir´s reasons for acting like he did. I had a similar argument with my parents about my choice of profession: my father had his heart set on my becoming a lawyer but I wanted to study archaeology. The arguments I used were similar to what Haldir said:becoming the person i want to become, living my own life and dreams, you know. He´s still not overly happy with my choice, but at the same time he wishes me well. Having that example before my eyes I´m sure Pelendur will come to accept what happened. After all he loves his son and that is all that ultimately matters. More please! ;-) Greetings, Thalanee

Had I really hated Olwe, Arafinwe or any other chanonical character (Turgon included), my words (as poor as it is in English, alas!) would have been much more harsh, Fiondil. And, while I'm not going to deny my use of contemptuous words, in my first review and not only, I'd say that neither of them were directed to Arafinwe or Olwe. Notwithstanding my more than debatable rights to display contempt at someone, whomever (s)he might be, "grin", I do not feel contempt towards Arafinwe or Olwe. As for Arafinwe, I will concede you a point and perhaps, more than just one point "grin". You're right, even I cannot find a sound (or beneficial) reason for him to prefixe his father's name at his own and Tolkien does indeed say that was Finrod's doing, after the death of his uncle Nolofinwe. Still, I find the matter interesting, although, indeed, I don't think it as being very significant. As in regard to Olwe...I do love Feanor and you know exactly why I admire him. But my love for Feanor doesn't make me to turn a blind eye at his guilt or his faults, nor does stop me from accusing him of murder. More to the point, of criminal recklessness but, at this point, it wouldn't more than playing with words, I believe. So, my words weren't meant to take a part of the blame from Feanor's shoulders to place it on Olwe's. And, because this could mean escalating the scope of this story, I'd ask you for the permission to continue the disscussion on this topic privately. Fiondil, I do know the characters and events are just fiction (but thanks for reminding me, by the way "grin" It was kinda useful, you know) but what is anything but is our manner of thinking and judging things. And, in the real life, to forget that a coin has two faces is a very dangerous thing to do. Most of the times, things are not so simple as they seem to be. Which I'm sure you know and, frankly, I'd be very surprised to not see it in your next project concerning the Darkening. Anyway, rest assured, most likely I'd find another creative ways to split the hairs. "LOL"

Ah! A nice chapter - it 'felt' good to see father and sone at least deciding to attempt some sort of understanding... Very nicely written - flowed well - felt good! *g*

So Arafinwë will try to keep the Reborn out of trouble. That will be fun...for the readers not Arafinwë At least Pelendur and Haldir have found a basis to start to think about mending their relationship. But I think once Pelendur stops being offended because his son has a mind of his own and has lived his own live without apologizing to his father for it, they can start to mend their relationship. As for Olwe and his reaction to Celepharn (and the kinslayer generally), it´s good that he could start to leave all his anger and hatred behind before it eat him, and in consequence his family and people, up. It must be much harder for those who survived the killing at Aqualonde with all the memories to handle the emotions than for those who died and passed through Mandos. The Reborn have a wholly different emotial approach to the situation and much more distance. It will be interessting how this situation devellops in the future.

I always love well-written "strategy/politics/etc. discussions" among more than two people, and the discussion about the politics among the Tol Eressëan Elves by the whole group is such a one: there is a natural flow and back-and-forth-and-intercuts between speakers, the topic under discussion is illuminated from different angles, and the point is gradually teased out and the plot driven further, with some sidebars that make the dialogue feel very natural. Arafinwë said sincerely, leaning over and placing a hand on Finrod’s lap, May I suggest you replace "lap" with "leg" or "thigh" or "arm" or some such? "Lap" makes for a rather odd mental picture to me. I especially liked this exchange: "For better or for worse," Arafinwë said with a nod, "the Valar have made it clear, at least to the kings, that our internal affairs are our own. They will only directly interfere when their own Peace is disturbed." "But where does their Peace end and our responsibilities begin?" Sador asked. "That is a good question, yonya," Arafinwë replied, "but I have no easy answer to it. I can only say that we must do what we can and let the Valar worry about the rest." This chapter brought home the sad reality that there truly is no peace even in Aman, if they have to have such serious discussions about guarding with the best, proven, battle-tested warriors against potential assaults. "Any Maia hanging about, will you kindly inform Lord Irmo that the Noldóran wishes to speak with him? Thank you." This had me bursting out with laughter; and Arafinwë's rejoinder was priceless, too!

I've no doubt that many (if not all) of my fellow reviewers would be happy with Olwe' and Arafinwe's behaviour towards Celepharn, respectively Pelendur and his son. I, however, am not. Or not yet, and I like to believe this wouldn't be about my particular bad mood or that Olwe is not paying the price for something that drives me to utter exasperation when it comes about this fandom: balance,I mean, or, more to the point, the lack of it. I don't have much to say about Arafinwe, for now. I told you once that my opinion concerning him has changed a lot in the last months and to a much more positive note. I think his endeavour to bring peace between Pelendur and his son Hallatiro is a marvellous thing. Arafinwe can certainly understand how Pelendur feels because they both shared, at a point,the same problem with their children. If he can show Pelendur how to move on....I might acknowledge him as the High King of the Noldor. I might. "grin" "I went from an honest desire to see new lands and to carve out a life for myself. Tirion, indeed all of Eldamar, was becoming too small for me and I wanted more." And yet...he's in Eldamar once more. Has something changed, I wonder? Beside himself, I think it didn't. Tirion and Eldamar are still as small as before, even smaller if we're to take into account that Sindar and Nandor had also come to Valinor and perhaps some of them were dwelling there. He was Hallatiro before leaving and he became Haldir in Middle-earth. Now, after death and Judgement...perhaps he's a different person altogether. I know Arafinwe had his own trials to face and this softens me towards him, although..."sigh" I'd still like to find out more of "Arafinwe" being translated into Sindarin as "Finarfin" . Meaning, what is the meaning of Arafinwe having prefixed his father's name at his own? Olwe...I'm not going to belittle his kind attitude towards Celepharn. But I do want more from the King of the Teleri and from the Teleri themselves. In my opinion, their problem is something more than having a hard time to forgive the Noldor and their attitude before the War of Wrath is all the proof I personally need...Weren't there and also suffering because of Morgoth their long-sundered kin? Or Men? Perhaps friends who didn't make to Valinor, left behind along with Elwe or parted from them with Lenwe? Their first thought went then to the same thing as an Age before, not to their kin. And that...that was more than just what the Noldor had done at Alqualonde. "All judgments are rendered, all debts paid." I agree with this. But this works only for the people aware of their own guilt, not for everyone. And...as much as I'd like to comment in regard to Turgon, is there something canonical concerning him ordering his troops to stay and watch at Alqualonde? I mean, Fingon was there and fighting, and, whatever my personal opinions regarding Turgon (meaning, the pot is calling the kettle black), he did love his brother after all. Sorry for the rants. As I'm sure you'd know by now, your stories are actually making people to think and perhaps search, and, in my opinion, this is one attribute marked as "must have" for a ...let's say, more than the average story.

"Time to mend some fences and keep the Reborn too occupied to get into trouble," Hm ... our dear Arafinwë is taking a lot on his plate, isn’t he? The first half he might be able to do, but the second half is a lost battle from the beginning, and he should know it! Olwë did very well with Celepharn. To admit that it was difficult to forgive the kinslaying, but to make clear that he doesn’t blame him for what happened and that he expects other Elves to try and move on, too, seemed a great way to handle the situation. Him quoting Námo must have been quite a surprise to the two Reborn, but it shows once more how Olwë thinks now, and I think it will help them that he is so supportive and friendly. As for Pelendur and Haldir, that part was well written, too. So Pelendur is still offended because his adult son had a will of his own? You know, I’m beginning to think that these two would have come to blows anyway, even if Haldir had listened to his adar and stayed in Valinor. Pelendur obviously didn’t – and still doesn’t – realise that his son has a life of his own and the right to decide for himself what to do, and that it is none of his business to decide about the career of his son himself. All in all, I’d say that talk went rather well. Pelendur got to hear some things that hopefully will give him something to think about and change his mind in the end. And as I said before, it would be unbelievable if he’d change his mind at once and completely, considering the situation up to that day, so it is a good start that both are willing to try. Haldir and Gwilwileth are talking about having an elfling? Hm ... Gwilwileth might be right that it would help Haldir to mature faster if he had the responsibility, like it worked out for Finrod. But Finrod was much more mature already then. So it could be that Haldir would end up getting his child in all sort of trouble through his bad example *grin* But I like the idea. Oh, I never realised that Glorfindel knew Haldir that well before! No wonder he ended up in the (nearly) constant company of Glorfindel and his otornor!

Pelundur has the difficult task of accepting his son for who he is. It is only natural for parents to make plans for their childrens future. The hard part is accepting that that choice may not be what the child wants and being able to accept the path chosen.

Really, Fiondil, this first encounter of Glorfindel and Sador with the elves of Tol Eressëa was quite amusing and made me laugh a lot. The way Glorfindel treated the youngsters and how they turned from arrogant to overawed, the banter between the friends, all that was priceless. Interesting what a well-known name or two can do! Just imagining their faces when they realised just who these odd Amaneldi Elves are ... *snicker* And I remember Bronweg and Handir from the Tapestry story. It’s probably the same glade, too. Anyway, it’s true; no matter who might assume the Kingship over the Elves on Tol Eressëa at this time, it would cause problems later when the Kings of Beleriand are reborn. And the six young ellyn seem to begin to understand that things aren’t as easy as they thought. Of course, taking the hunters with them to the encampment and inviting them to dinner solves the problem who owns the boar *grin*

Heh. "Time to mend some fences and keep the Reborn too occupied to get into trouble". I suppose the fences will be mended - eventually. But keeping reborn out of trouble? Good luck, Arafinwë!! (You will need it!) ;-)

I think that the Re-born and the Returnees who followed Feaonaro feel like released prisoners, they have served their time but now have to integrate back into society. Getting acceptance from Olwe will go a long way to helping Calapharn. Does he have relatives in Aman or Tol Ereassea? I may be reading too much into it, but did Pelendur, maybe, want to go with his son, or does he envy him for going off and living his life the way he wanted to? Pelendur and Haldir will have time to talk, having other people to talk to as well will help them a lot. Haldir and Wilwarin have plenty of time to start making Elflings, think of all the practicing they can do! More please, Lynda

The burdens of kingship... having to let others go off and have fun... Now, I really, truly, definitely like Olwë here – his interaction with Celepharn to be specific. This will certainly bring additional healing to the “young” Noldo: Hearing Námo’s “All judgments are rendered, all debts paid” quoted by _the King of the Teleri_, and then being _accepted_ by him must be almost beyond belief. Particularly as he took part in at least two Kinslayings. Did Haldir meet with Glorfindel in EI1. I can’t remember anything special there. Though he had that truly spectacular confrontation with his father! Arafinwë is obviously determined to see a reconciliation between Haldir and Pelendur. One bit is political: He is equally obviously determined to see that the Reborn and the returnees is accepted into Noldorin society in Aman. Which means that having a high-ranking official in his court blatantly _not_ accepting his Reborn son is something he very much _doesn’t_ want. So he has started a campaign to reeducate Pelendur – who IMO needs it badly. “Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.” And I think there is a fair bit of pride in his attitudes towards his son – along with a refusal to see his son as an individual in his own right, with his own wants and needs – and not an extension of himself. And I am sure there are quite a number of _interesting_ lessons lying in wait for the ellon. There are a couple of small ones in the meeting here already - "His name is whatever he chooses it to be", and the hint of future grandkids. I must smile a bit at Gwilwileth’s theory that having elflings will hasten help Haldir to mature. I can just about see him, when he has been sent to retrieve the elflings, busily making mud pies. _I_ think he would more likely end up crouching in the mud himself, making mud pies along with them!!

I really liked Arafinwe here. :) And the hints of things that will ultimately be revealed in future chapters and in the Darkening fic we are all looking so forward to. In particular, I found myself caught up in Celepharn's conversation with Olwe--and I was so darn proud of the Telerin king that he truly could forgive, and could reassure Celepharn. If the Teleri can learn to forgive the kinslayers, then the rest of the Amani should be able to as well. I did like it that Pelendur and Haldir weren't reconciled completely... that would have rung false after the way Pelendur has been treating his son. But it was good to see him finally being willing to obey his king, and actively get to know the ellon his son has become. And now there's dinner and dinner guests to look forward to... *grin* Well done, as always!

Hi Fiondil, Wow, talk about dropping a bombshell in the middle of this chapter! I expected to learn something about Haldir... I don't know why I was so surprised, but I was. I think when I read earlier that Haldir died in the attack on Gondolin, I figured he died sometime before the the last group escaped. And for some reason, I did not expect Haldir to have been one of Glorfindel's captains, but in retrospect-well, why should he not be? Pelendur's obstinacy is understandable but chilling none-the-less. "Still, in the end, what did it get you?" Pelendur demanded of Haldir. That sent chills down my back, as well as Haldir's description of his own death. One hopes that with time the two will be able to reconcile, but if not at least maybe they understand each other better than before. Interesting comment by Arafinwë about what happened on his return to Tirion and where he was during the darkening. One wonders what assumptions he made, but I know...we'll find out later if not sooner. It will be worth the wait, I am sure! And in the meantime, it gives me something to chew over. I really liked Olwë's interaction with Celepharn, and Olwë's admission that it took him a long time to work through his anger and grief. "All judgments are rendered, all debts paid," indeed. Not easy being a reborn, expecting the other shoe to drop all the time. This will bring Celepharn one step further along the way, I think, knowing Olwë holds no grudges. But one wonders whether he'll go through this with every person he meets that might somehow have been harmed by his actions in his previous life. Not at all an envious place to be in. All in all quite a marvelous chapter--so full of surprises! Thanks Fiondil, Joanne

And...I'm up way past my bedtime again. *snicker* But I just HAD to wait for this, especially since I wouldn't get to read it in the morning. *pauses* Well. It is the morning. Past midnight. But anyway. Yes yes yes, his name is HALDIR. And Hallatiro is a good name, but I like Haldir better. *nods* Pelendur and Haldir have a lot to talk about and I am sure they will at least try to come to an understanding. It will be good for them; not just for them, but for all the families of the Reborn and Returnees who need reconciliation with their loved ones. And yes, plenty of time for making elflings. *lol* I hope Haldir's amme will see her husband and son come back fully reconciled. Now, if there could just be a toning down of Amarie's amme's attitude... Can't wait to see what happens next! Oh, and Happy Father's Day, meldonya! *hugs* Tye-melin, atarinya indonya. (And being that it's past midnight, I probably constructed that wrong...the word is "indo" in Quenya apparently...here. http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/vocab.htm *snugs* ~Kaylee!

A wonderful meeting with the young Tol Eresseans. A propitious one, I hope!

So Glorfindel got to surprise someone else for a change. Good for him. He can't always be the recipient of surprises The look on the faces of the youngster must have been priceless.