Already beginning to accept, Elrond knows the pain will come, yet is realizing even now it is necessary. And Arwen's heart is not quite captured yet, although that will come.
Love all too often, as Elrond noted, painful and yet the more precious because that is so.
Author's reply
Aragorn is too young yet, I think, to capture Arwen's heart. But he is in her mind, which in the end might be even more powerful.
And poor Elrond has a pretty good idea of what will be demanded of him, I think. He knows, if anyone does, that sacrifice and self-denial are important elements of love. Thank you.
Larner
· 7 October 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
Yes, the losing of ones heart to the one intended to be the mate.
Beautiful!
Author's reply
Aragorn is in precisely the right mental condition to fall in love - and he has fallen. Arwen - has seen a beautiful besotted young man by moonlight. I think she is too mature to fall for him at the moment, but she has a good idea of her destiny - and the heir of Isildur is now in her mind's eye.
lindahoyland
· 6 October 2005
· Chapter 6: Devotion
What a lovely poignant scene for Gilraen and Aragorn.I will see it in my mind's eye when I read the book in future.As always Elrond's words about "binding no woman in troth" mystify me as matching him with one of the Ranger women would have ensured Arwen sailed with her father. Maybe Elrond knew what was to be ?
I am enjoying this story.
Author's reply
Such a hard time for them both. Gilraen knows that she will never have her son to herself again - and Aragorn must be on the edge. The confusion of the revelations about his ancestry, combined with Elrond's words about duty - and his long term marriage prospects! - must have stirred him up into exactly the right frame of mind to lay his heart at Arwen's feet. Even though she is not yet sure she knows what to do with it.
Elrond must have been tempted to marry Aragorn off, while his youthful hormones were surging. But he is too honorable, I think, to mess with foresight and destiny. The third age is winding to an end and this will be the last chance of getting rid of Sauron. I think Elrond knew pretty well what was coming. There's a symmetry to it that makes it almost inevitable.
Thank you.
lindahoyland
· 6 October 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
I have always felt that Gilraen might have felt like a poor relation to Elrond and you bring this ot well. I loved Arwen's scene with her. Your description of the hard lives of the rangers was good too.
Author's reply
All Men stuck in Imladris would have felt like poor relations, I think. And what was there for Gilraen to do once her son no longer needed full-time care?
Glad you liked it!
perelleth
· 6 October 2005
· Chapter 6: Devotion
I loved the twins here above all. I suppose it must have been kind of shock for them, and the remark about his scruffiness and growing whiskers.. well, I gave myself away at the office, LOL!!
Great job Bodkin, it is so interesting to read this insider's look at events only hinted at...
Author's reply
Making people give themselves away at the office. My mission is successful!!
Poor twins. One moment Estel is their little foster brother - and the next he is that object of great suspicion to all big brothers - the drooling male hovering over their little sister. I don't know how they coped!
Thank you. This chapter came easily (so many of the situations were already set up), but the next is barely begun!
Larner
· 6 October 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
And that commitment was recognized by the Valar themselves, to the point they allowed them to stay past their father's sailing and yet retain the choice.
Author's reply
If Arwen was the sacrificial lamb - repeating, in a way, Earendil's sacrifice . . . and maybe Tuor's - than it seems quite reasonable of the Valar to grant her the presence of some of her kin over the years remaining to her. I don't know if Elrond could have borne to sail had he not known that Elladan, Elrohir and Celeborn would remain.
Larner
· 6 October 2005
· Chapter 3: Innocence
Yes, for a time she will allow herself to be cosseted and protected; but the crysalis must break open sometime.
Author's reply
Old enough to be willing to allow her kin to look after her. And knowing that it will give them comfort one day? Maybe. Arwen is not a trophy - nor one to be manipulated by her kin - she is, I think, older and more mature than they are willing to accept. The problem with being the youngest in the family!
Larner
· 6 October 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
Ah, Arwen the capable and the twins the ones willing to trip lightly through their father's works. And the image of a sulky Aragorn who is surprised at the change in roles they take now that they are in charge is a wonderful one!
Author's reply
It's bad enough for a teenager growing up surrounded by other teenagers - but the closest that Aragorn has to companions are about 2800 years older than him. And quite capable, when the occasion demands it, of behaving that way!
Dot
· 5 October 2005
· Chapter 6: Devotion
You’re really showing me this in a new light. I think I’d always thought of this part of the story in terms of Aragorn’s acceptance of the burden of destiny, of Elrond’s ‘ultimatum’, for want of a better word, and all that. In other words, I probably only saw the bigger picture. I’d certainly never imagined Aragorn as an infatuated young man and the whole of Imladris as witness to this. You’re doing a great job with it. Reading it actually makes me feel slightly uncomfortable!! If Aragorn were younger, this would actually be rather sweet, and even now it could be something that will be laughed off later. After all, he’s hardly the first one to fall for her. But it’s the very fact that the family are trying to convince themselves, as well as Arwen’s silence actually speaking volumes, that makes it so painful.
He froze suddenly in recognition of one lay, sung now in a voice that was no longer a joyful boyish treble *cringe* I don’t blame Elladan for wanting to beat some sense into him. It seems that Aragorn is in his own world now and doesn’t realise how inappropriate he’s being – and not just by choosing this particular ditty.
‘You have much greater difficulty organising females – whatever their race or species. Naneth and Arwen had you wrapped round their little fingers – Arwen still has!’ LOL! He’s got Glorfindel pegged! I love Elladan hastily adding the fact that he and his brother both respect him enormously.
I do love Gilraen. Although, I would have actually enjoyed seeing her chase her son through the halls of Imladris! I really like how honest she is and how straightforward. She pushes him in the direction he needs to go. He, on the other hand, is a tad dramatic. As all young men can be. But what really comes through here is her love for her son, her respect for who he is, and her faith that he will achieve what is meant for him, all the while knowing that pain will play a part but accepting it as she has accepted everything else. Her strength, I think, is what I admire most about her.
I thought the conversation between Arwen and her brothers was wonderful. So well done. There’s love and teasing, but underneath the twins are starting to realise that it’s more than just Aragorn’s love for her. They’re older than her, but she seems to possess a calmness, an acceptance and a quiet faith that gives her more wisdom in a way (although obviously there are depths to the Elrondionnath that they hide). She knows that her fate is unfolding and she will wait, while everyone else around her talks and thinks and plots. I laughed at the ‘horse’ references and I particularly loved the line about her daeradar. Aragorn may have meant it as a compliment to her beauty but it was a very meaningful reminder of her heritage, of what blood runs in her veins. ‘No matter what, no matter when. Now and for ever. As long as you need us. You can rely on us.’ I love that, even if it did put a lump in my throat!
Of course, poor Aragorn must be a complete mixture of emotions. Elrond certainly came to the point. Another thing I hadn’t really considered was that Elrond more or less told him that he couldn’t have any wife. He didn’t just mean his own daughter, although obviously Aragorn does know what he has to accomplish to win her. Interesting. I wonder how soon Elrond thought things would come to a head. It’s a fascinating discussion. I had tears in my eyes as Elrond explains his choice and that of his children, and I love the idea of Aragorn being told tales as a child that would make him feel more at home and important, even though I had that exact same thought, that it almost drives home even more the idea that he’s somehow less than they are. But it’s a breathtaking moment when he suddenly sees clearly that the passing of the Elves is no longer in the distant future. The whole conversation is such a poignant mixture of love and pain, of pride and bitterness. I’m glad they at least part well, though Aragorn is in no doubt as to the burden he bears.
It’s a very touching thought that Elrond and Gilraen are somehow connected by pain. I found myself very moved too by the fact that Gilraen can see what all this means for Elrond and is moved to pity him, to see his fate as worse than her own. Arwen’s regret for Aragorn’s destiny seems to echo some of her father’s sorrow and I thought it was interesting that the one person who won’t allow herself to wallow in pain or feel bitterness is Aragorn’s naneth. She and her son are of the Dúnedain. She has survived and succeeded in her part and so will he. It’s what they do. You’ve an interesting take on Gilraen’s departure from Imladris, and her role in Arwen returning to Lothlórien. It’s amazing to think of all the strands that come together to form the future that we know. Gilraen seems to see things more clearly, and I think in a way it’s because she thinks in the present, and knows what her people have been working towards. She doesn’t have the weight of years and history that affects the elves in Aragorn’s life.
Glorfindel offers the twins good advice. They can still be around for Aragorn, whether he knows it or not. ‘In time, we must sail,’ Elladan declared, ‘if only so that we can seek out those to whom this piece of perfection will always be an infuriating elfling. I would give a great deal to see him humbled by one who knows precisely the stories that will make him squirm like a fish on a hook.’ LOL! I love how you tie your stories together :-) A shadow passed swiftly over Glorfindel’s bright face Ack. It seems to be sinking in what may have to happen before Elladan and Elrohir leave these shores…
Darker colours that fitted his mood, scented with the fragrance of endings. Oh, Bodkin. What a beautiful, heartbreaking sentence. A tormented and hurting Elrond is so hard to watch. Still, it made me smile to see him and Arwen tease one another, even as it hides so much. ‘I will always miss her.’ But I think he may underestimate his daughter a little. The ‘knowledge’ is not just his.
This is wonderful, Bodkin. It really is. So moving, so insightful and so thought-provoking.
Author's reply
Poor Aragorn - he's only 20, which is infatuated boy even to humans with a life span of 76 or so. As a man a tenth of the way through his life span, that would be equivalent to 7.5. And to elves of x thousand, he must barely seem like out of nappies. He'd probably be more careful - but he's feeling rather defiant and persecuted at the moment, poor lamb.
I really can't imagine Arwen falling desperately in love with him at this age. Yes, he might well be prettier than he will be at 40 - but she's used to elves. Aragorn is never going to win her heart because of his physical perfection. And Gilraen and Elrond are really much more understanding than they might have been!
Glorfindel is putty in female hands. But woe betide any son of Elrond who hopes to play on that weakness! Although he - and E2 will stand shoulder to shoulder to protect Arwen. It must be difficult for E2 - mentally they are still protecting Estel as their little 'brother' and here he is, making an ass of himself over their sister. But he wouldn't have been the first. Were it not for the ominous background music they might just be able to shrug this off!
I think Gilraen is quite happy with her humanity - seeing Secondborn as different but not inferior - and I don't think she would accept elven immortality as a gift. She must have worried terribly about Aragorn's division from men. He grew up in safety, yes, but must have had a terrible job adjusting to life among his people.
The Glorfindel's childhood bit came here first - then the Secret Language bit sprouted into Discretion and it ended up part of that.
I'm glad you like that sentence. Thank you. And poor Elrond. He loves Arwen and dreads losing her. But I think he knows that this is part of what he has to do.
This chapter just flowed. Of course, it was helped along rather by Tolkien himself who provided chunks of things that the characters just had to say!
elliska
· 5 October 2005
· Chapter 6: Devotion
Boy, I don't even know where to start with this one. I think this is the best chapter of this story yet.
I saw this And Estel, he was sure, would soon learn to relegate the elleth to some distant corner of his heart and accept the practicality of begetting heirs for his house on one of his own people. and I thought 'boy is Glorfindel wrong! Then I got to the next line and saw he recognized the problem with that thought too. And Gilrean cornering Aragorn was great, as was the conversation she had with him. She was frank. Poor Aragorn. That must have been a heck of a thing to learn what he just had and really absorb it.
And the twins' conversation with Arwen!
‘He is naturally scruffy,’ Elladan insisted. ‘And he is growing whiskers, my sister. Like a horse.’
‘He has beautiful eyes,’ she countered.
‘Like a horse,’ Elladan nodded. Great exchange! The poor twins are so worried about her, as well they should be but this was a great conversation between them, especially the end.
But my favorite parts were Elrond's conversation with Aragorn and then the last part where he's thinking about Celebrian and then talks with Arwen. Those were both powerful and captured so much.
I loved this chapter. Great job!
Author's reply
Thank you - and this chapter just flowed, too. Unlike the next one, which isn't getting anywhere! (Yet.)
You would think - had Elrond not known what the future must hold - he would hav encouraged Aragorn to marry young and beget lots of little heirs of Isildur. But he did. Like it or not, his foresight warned him and Galadriel's mirror hinted to her and - well, pretty well everyone knew, and avoided the subject.
I can't take a lot of credit for the Gilraen/Aragorn conversation - nor the Elrond/Aragorn one as Tolkien wrote a lot of the words they used there. But I accept responsibility for the horse references!
Poor Elrond. (I think I end up saying that a lot.) Yet he's not movie Elrond to twist Arwen's arm and push her on board ship. He knew and suffered and accepted - not just her choice, but her destiny.
I enjoyed writing this chapter - and I'm glad you liked it.
Amy
· 5 October 2005
· Chapter 6: Devotion
Oh, dear, I can't seem to stop rereading this chapter!
Let me see if I can name whose devotion is shown in this chapter:
Glorfindel to Elrond
Elladan and Elrohir to Arwen
Estel to Arwen
Gilraen to Aragorn and to the Dunedain
Elrond to Arwen
And I forgot to mention earlier how much I like Gilraen cunningly lecturing Aragorn in bed; Glorfindel, Elladan/Elrohir, and Elrond watching the play unfold; and this sentence, which I just went back to find:
But Elrond’s face was pale now and his eyes dark, as the shadow of a distant fate came between them.
I refuse to think of this as tragedy, despite the heartbreak.
Author's reply
Thank you. It's not a tragedy - not in the real definition - but it has a sad inevitability about it. For all they've attempted to keep Arwen away from Imladris over the last couple of decades, there she was, dancing like Luthien in the woods just at the very moment when an emotionally disturbed and disaffected Aragorn was there to see her.
And they all love each other - which makes it even harder. I refuse to believe that Elrond rejected Aragorn, or that Elladan and Elrohir chose their sister over their little foster-brother. And they have sixty - nearly seventy years to brood over it. And come to terms with it to the best of their ability - because they do know that this distant fate is one that none of them can avert.
Larner
· 5 October 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
I always loved Galadriel's warning to Sam, that the mirror is not a good guide in that often by trying to forestall an event we only make it more certain to occur.
And I love that Arwen already realizes she will never come to Aman.
So beautifully written. Will have to catch up over the coming days.
Author's reply
Thank you. The whole prophesying think is dangerous, really - and, on the whole, I think it's probably better not to be granted glimpses into the future. But the whole family is closely acquainted with the demands of Destiny - with a capital D - and I suspect Arwen must have asked herself a few times just what it was that kept her waiting east of the sea. And all that 'fair as Luthien' stuff must have made her wonder.
I felt impelled to start this because I was so sick of a) totally wet Arwen, and b) coming between Aragorn and take-your-choice-of-character Arwen.
And it is fun to make more of her point of view.
TithenFeredir
· 5 October 2005
· Chapter 6: Devotion
This was wonderfully written. You covered so many things and yet wove it all into the most natural interactions. The setting and all of the characters seem completely real and exactly as they should be. I still love the warmth and familiarity in the elves' conversations. Gilraen seems to have the wisdom of someone who has had a long time to ponder hers and her son's fate. My favorite sentence in this chapter is this:
"Darker colours that fitted his mood, scented with the fragrance of endings."
Wow.
~TF
Author's reply
Thank you. I found this chapter flowed quite easily on from the one before - and it had the advantage of some lovely set pieces that just had to go here.
Gilraen has spent eighteen years in Imladris - with Aragorn as the only other non-elf to be there all the time - and she has her own foresight. She has had a lot of time to think about the fate facing them all. And she's just seen some of it in action. No matter what they all tried, Arwen and Aragorn met spot on cue. Both she and Elrond must have felt their hearts sink.
I'm glad you liked it.
daw the minstrel
· 5 October 2005
· Chapter 6: Devotion
Glorfindel's observations at the start were touching -- Aragorn pulling away (which seems right for a young man that age) but being capable of dogged loyalty, Elrond in pain, Arwen turning things over in her head and being inscrutable. I assume the song was the Lay of Luthien. And I loved Gilraen, just loved her! She's so often erased from fanfic entirely, but here she's strong and wise, and Aragorn knows better than to cross her.
That she enjoyed using his real name is a nice touch. "Guess again." Ha! But she tells him the truth and sends him away even though both things pain her. She's known all along the burden he has to carry but he must still be reeling.
Elladan's confusion over grandfathers was good. He's a little arrogant to assume that she has only the elf one. Why do you think Elrond told Aragorn he couldn't marry anyone, not just Arwen? After all, the previous heirs were all married or we wouldn't have Aragorn as the direct descendant. Maybe Elrond knows the day of reckoning is at hand. Or is it this single minded thing you bring up?
Glorfindel is always good with the twins. He's very sexy in his automatic authority. :-)
Author's reply
Glorfindel, yes. Rather yummy. But helpless in this situation. I think too many people know what the outcomes are likely to be and they are all hurting - and all afraid to say too much. And Aragorn is grown-up in that very young way of young men - all the weight of the world on their shoulders; convinced they know what's going on; certain that all the older people are getting at them; desperate to be accepted - yet making that difficult every time they open their tactless little mouths.
Can you imagine Aragorn if he hadn't had Gilraen to keep his feet firmly on the ground and remind him of his humanity and show him that he was of a proud line of worthwhile people? I doubt he would have turned into the man he did. And she must have got such a kick out of having her son back as Aragorn, son of Arathorn.
I know - send Aragorn off and push him into the arms of a suitable Dunedain bride and the problem's over! Very few 20 year olds are so single minded that they couldn't be led astray some dark night. Especially if Elrond let certain people know that he wanted Aragorn to be married soon. After all - the leaders of the Dunedain would have been much happier to have Aragorn filling a nursery with little heirs of Isildur in between trips off indulging in derring-do. But maybe Elrond knew that the return of the king came with the price of an elven queen - and his daughter at that.
Amy
· 5 October 2005
· Chapter 6: Devotion
Warm and chilling at the same time. So many points of view handled well. Really marvelous.
Author's reply
Thank you. This chapter was, I found, really easy to write - the template was so beautifully laid out!
The next, on the other hand . . .
lindahoyland
· 12 September 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
This is very interesting,I like your interpretation of why Arwen was kept at Lothlorien.I always find Elrond's actions mysterious,if Arwen had grown up with Arwen, she would have no doubt seen him a brother.Then Elrond forbids Aragorn to marry any woman rather than just trying to get him to choose another!Poor arwen unable to please herself even at such a vast age !
Author's reply
Thank you. You can't help but get the feeling that, little as he liked it, Elrond was only too aware of the finger of fate prodding them all on in one direction. And I suppose he was genetically adapted into being an emissary of destiny.
I am sure that if Arwen had been around to drag a grubby little boy around by the ear and force him to bathe and wash his neck - and then make him complete his study tasks - he would have looked on this vision of beauty as a truly irritating older sister and pulled a revolted face at the idea of ever wanting to do anything yucky like kissing her.
But - the fate of Middle Earth demands that she is his lady fair - to whom he can devote himself with such dedication that he can withstand the dangers of some 70 years. (Dangers including pretty Dunedain maidens as well as orcs, despair, loneliness, battles and so on.)
But Arwen isn't just Galatea (is that the statue that Pygmalion adored as the perfect woman?) or the doll in Coppelia - she is a very real and very strong elleth, who is aware at some level of the likely outcome.
Angel
· 8 September 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
Yay! You updated! Oh my goodness! So much going on! Kisses all round for Estel, Aragorn (wink wink), Elrond, Elladan and Elrohir, sniff! Yeah it's an orgy lol
You could have included Gilraen's perception of Arwen at first sight. A hint at her beauty that later enraptures Aragorn, though your take on her character is formidable.
A few years ago I think I outgrew Gilraen lol, so finding her between such pages, surprises me greatly, where she comes alive, and I learn to like and love her as Arathorn's widow again.
Love Elrond and though I absolutely love his father/teacher/protector dilemma he could do with more spine :)
Celeborn and Galadriel - thank you for making Celeborn real rather than the fumbling backdrop on Jackson's LOTR take ;)... I like their interactions, always gentle with an underlying sense of power, and fright.
Already I get the feeling the elves time on Middle Earth is drawing to an end, I thus wish the contest had been more detailed. Oh and a swimming contest included lol
Author's reply
Thank you. An orgy, huh?
Gilraen doesn't get a huge amount of screen time, but she's a pretty amazing character really - in the kind of self-sacrificing way that isn't really very fashionable. When you think how young she was (in Dunedain terms) she suppressed the personal satisfaction thing to devote herself to raising a king-in-waiting.
Elrond has spine! But what he also has is the knowledge and self-control that enables him to accept that sometimes you just have to stand back. He really doesn't want to - especially over Arwen - but it's not his choice and he has to let his sons / Aragorn / Arwen grow into independence. And it is excruciatingly painful for him. But then it seems to me that a lot of Elrond's role in the whole history of Middle Earth is to lose what is most important to him and to carry of fighting for the good of all anyway.
C&G are among my favourites - love the pair of them. And how / why would Galadriel have hung around for three ages with a total wimp? Celeborn might have been happy with a less obvious power - but his power equalled hers in his own way. And they both knew it.
And half-naked elves indulging in swimming contests are much better left to the imagination! Although the more vivid the imagination the better!
meckinock
· 28 August 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
I really liked Estel's comment that his mother says farewell every time she looks at him. The passage with Estel and the twins in the wild was warm and humorous. I liked the interaction between Estel and his big brothers. This chapter brought out not only the tremendous burden dropped on Aragorn's shoulders, but also the one his mother bore for so many years. I felt so bad for Gilraen when she was wondering if she would be shuttled off to the shadows when Elrond's daughter came home. It was nice to see her getting acquainted with Arwen. Aragorn's disorientation and anger at being told the truth about himself were very realistic, I thought. Even though there were excellent reasons for withholding that information, he's 20 and likely wouldn't see them right away.
Author's reply
Poor Gilraen. She knows she is about to lose her son - and what does she have left? It's all part of the sacrifice she has made to rear him to become what he might be. Not to mention giving hope but retaining none. Every time she sees him now she must be trying to pile up every possible memory to eke out over the next 50 odd years, while he is off sleeping under trees and striving to save the world and she is left with - nothing much.
The Aragorn in the Appendix seems to have taken his new name and role very calmly - but I have sons that age. They wouldn't appreciate the burden at all. They might enjoy the odd moment of fantasy - when the world bows down before them and they get the girl - but the 70 years of mud and ignominy - no thanks. And not telling them before would be wrong. And they would feel they had been pushed out of their family even more than having been returned their birth family. I'm sure Elrond would really have been left ripping out his braids. And the twins wouldn't understand why their loving little brother was suddenly surly.
Gilraen might cope better for knowing Arwen. Or not. She might secretly prefer to know that Aragorn had met a nice Dunedain girl and started the process of making her a grandmother. But she is an intelligent and strong woman and she has her share of Dunedain foresight.
Thank you for liking Estel and the twins in the wild! You do the wild so brilliantly. (Mine is mainly imagination.) And if ever a story needed a bit of humour!
TithenFeredir
· 25 August 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
There was an excellent contrast between the scenes with Gilraen and Elrond with their loving concern for Estel, and the harshness of his feelings of betrayal. It is so like a child to have no clue about the love that surrounds him.
The meeting of Estel and Arwen was every bit as momentous and magical as it should have been. Beautiful! ~TF
Author's reply
In Appendix A, Aragorn seems to take it all very calmly - but I have a 20 year old! Betrayal, doubt about his ability to be the man everyone expected, insecurity, temper, hurt - revelations such as, by-the-way-you-are-the-heir-of-Isildur come with all of them. And storming out. And moping.
It is not that anyone could have done anything else - but that won't make him feel any better. It will, however, I think, leave him emotionally vulnerable and precisely in the state needed to fall totally and completely in love. And if his passion just shows all those who have been deceiving him, so much the better. But, on the other hand, I am sure that Aragorn's pure devotion to Arwen enabled him to endure the next thirty years, so it's not all bad.
He needed that momentous, magical vision of perfection.
I'm glad it worked for you.
TithenFeredir
· 25 August 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
Another lovely chapter. I love the exchanges between Arwen and Curaniel, sizing up the boys. Estel is a properly obnoxious, frustrated adolescent. It is a nice touch of realism for Gilraen to be wiser than Elrond in the matter of her son's development and very sad to see Elrond trying in vain to fend off the inevitable. ~TF
Author's reply
Thank you. Well, you would be interested, wouldn't you? Even if you weren't really looking in that way!
And poor Estel - I wonder how long it was since the elves of Imladris had had to deal with the growing pains of an adolescent. Gilraen is far closer to it herself, as well as knowing more about men. Elrond is such a courageous and generous elf - but this must have been one of the hardest sacrifices asked of him.
elliska
· 25 August 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
Wow! The moment. I liked how everyone in this knew for whatever reason that a momentous event was upon them. Poor Celeborn--I felt sorry for him and for Galadriel and their fears for the future. I liked Arwen's arrival from the POV of Gilraen. And seeing Arwen and Glorfindel together. Poor Elrond too--I think this is one of those instances where the 'gift' of foresight stinks. :-) You included a lot of interesting details in the conversations between Estel/the twins and Arwen/Gilraen. And I cannot imagine that Estel took that conversation with Elrond completely calmly. It must have been quite a shock. He might have suspected something from things he heard or saw growing up, but I doubt he had guessed everything. I loved the end--the moment. Great chapter!
Author's reply
Thank you. Poor Estel. One brickbat leaves him reeling only to smash face-first into the next. Followed by leaving home for a mere thirty years or so of facing an unfriendly providence. It's a good thing that Elrond and Gilraen and the inhabitants of Imladris have managed to give him a secure childhood and a range of good living-wild skills.
But everything is crowding together and all those possibilities are binding together to end all that G&C and Elrond and Glorfindel and all have been striving to achieve over the ages. Foresight really does stink.
But at least Arwen's 'fortuitous' arrival at this key moment has ensured that the star-struck heir of Isildur will not weaken. Which is probably why fate ensured it happened. And blow the pain it caused.
Appendix A has ensured that a good deal of the next chapter is done too! It just needs some lighter moments.
TithenFeredir
· 25 August 2005
· Chapter 3: Innocence
The deeper I go into this story, the more I like it. So much of it is more of what I have mentioned before: the wonderful interactions betwween the characters, the "oldness" of the elder elves while the younger ones manage to be young and yet still wise and accomplished as you would expect after thousands of years of living, and the sort of ethereal atmosphere in Lorien. But also Arwen is becoming a more fleshed-out character with each chapter. It's a pleasure getting to know her. I really admire your writing style as well. It is very effective at evoking mood and yet it is also very clear and it reads effortlessly. ~TF
Author's reply
Thank you! Arwen must be such a strong character - it can't be easy to surrender your immortality for someone who is nearly three thousand years younger than you. She must have had a very clear understanding of herself - and him - and their place in the world.
I'm glad you find the writing clear - I'm feeling good now! I'll go and write some more . . .
Redheredh
· 24 August 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
Oh boy, what an enjoyable chapter! Maybe it started on a strained note, but such a substantial one. She went home!
I really like your Celeborn and Galadriel so very much. And he remains Celeborn - but does not diminish. ;)
Lovely Gilraen showing signs of her maternal foresight. Poor Elrond suffering the pangs of a mortal father. Supportive Glorfindel because that is who he is. The twins very much themselves. You gave an insightful moment into each.
I like how you use "Estel - Aragorn" to emphasize the break in his identity.
But, you saved the best for last. What incredible description you entwined around the actual dialog! Your slant on their Meeting is very exciting.
Like Arwen and everyone around her, I anticipate even though I know - but do not know - what is to come.
Author's reply
I think Aragorn will grow into enjoying reverting to Estel in the company of his adar and brothers. But first he needs to learn to be Aragorn. Without feeling that being Aragorn is a rejection. Goodness this is a tough thing to inflict on a 20 year old. I'm not surprised he was disturbed enough to lose his heart so totally.
Poor Celeborn must have felt so helpless - not a feeling I think he appreciates. Galadriel, of course, knew she was helpless and turned impotence into taking control.
Gilraen and Elrond seem to me to have grown into a totally non-physical bond over rearing Estel - and to share various emotions and fears, but she is more accepting of loss. But then loss is part of mortality, I suppose.
There are difficulties in using actual dialogue - and it sometimes doesn't sound quite right (in this context) - but, when it is actually there, it just feels as if they should say the words Tolkien put in their mouths.
More soon. Ish.
perelleth
· 24 August 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
Wonderful!As you say, some things are better left as they were written, and this chapter truly honors those glimpses we get in the tale of aragorn and Arwen. I love this Arwen, strong and yet compassionate, and so stubborn ! as it becomes a daughter of Elrond and Celebrían's.
I liked the conversation with Gilraen. It is a very interesting insight, considering what Arqen will choose, hearing Gilraen's perception is kind of foresight, and, at the same time, a reminder to elves of the importance of time, of which the have endless amount, and how mortals do appreciate each and every passing momnet of happiness. I liked that you confronted her before she met Estel
Estel's mixed emotions are only too understandable , as are Elrond's.
But I did love the conversation between Galadriel and Celeborn. ...When I could wish to tell the world to care for itself and leave me to guard what is mine.E Yay!!!! the burden of leadership, so seldom pointed out! Fantastic!
Author's reply
I came on the same thing with Earendil's Tale - and it just seems more appropriate to stick with actual text where possible, but it is difficult at times, when what is said doesn't seem to be exactly in character with the person as you see him/her. Aragorn in the Appendix just seems so overly mature for a 20 year old who has just learned some rather scary things about himself.
I reckon that, if Arwen wasn't as strong and compassionate and insightful as her parents and grandparents, she might well not have been there to meet Aragorn. She could so easily have sailed with her naneth and nobody would have been surprised. And just think what might have happened then!
Gilraen would have illustrated personal sacrifice, I think, in a very feminine way - and possibly the rewards of bowing to fate.
Estel is still so young! Arwen is not about to fall in his arms - but I think she is aware of the machinations of fate - and Elrond, of course, knows even as he doesn't want to know.
Celeborn and Galadriel - it must be tempting sometimes to abandon responsibility and be selfish. But they just can't - too much depends on their honesty and application to duty. Which, of course, they have all passed on to Aragorn and Arwen.
Dot
· 24 August 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
For some reason I was left feeling exceedingly sorry for Celeborn in the opening to this chapter. I think it’s because while Galadriel and Elrond are focused on protecting Arwen from some future that may or may not come to pass, Celeborn wants to keep his beloved granddaughter safe from harm and from the very real dangers outside the borders of Lothlorien. I like Arwen’s determination. There’s a wonderful sense of her having made up her mind a long time ago that she would leave when she felt it was necessary and now the time has come and not even Celeborn can stop her. I also love the moment between Galadriel and Celeborn. I just adore the way you write their relationship. I’m glad they can support each other. In some ways it’s their resignation that is most poignant.
Showing Arwen’s arrival from Gilraen’s point of view is very effective. And, of course, this is an important moment in her own life too. Glorfindel’s mixture of surprise, disapproval and affection was done very well and perfectly set against Arwen’s joy and disregard for any negativity.
One of my favourite parts of this chapter is actually Gilraen’s thoughts about how little she knew of Arwen despite never outright being misled, how she was so carefully kept from meeting certain people. It’s a great insight into her life in Imladris and she’s obviously a very clever person. Interesting that she knew of Arwen and yet her son did not. Something obviously told Gilraen that she should not mention her to him. I thought that moment of apprehension and the sense of some nameless doom was done really well too.
Great scene between Arwen and Elrond. There’s just no persuading Arwen to do something she doesn’t feel right in doing and it seems that Elrond is trying to achieve the same acceptance that Galadriel is about the way events are unfolding.
I’m going to be mean and laugh at Estel’s misery in the rain. Oh well, he might as well get used to it. I think I’d rather grow old listening to Erestor lecture me on history. At least I’d be dry and warm. Nice moment between the twins when Estel talks about how his mother knowing that he must take on “adult responsibilities.”
I was delighted by the scene with Arwen and Gilraen. They have much in common, I think – strength, determination, courage. Gilraen’s selflessness is very evident too. She seems to have long accepted that she will have to let her son go, more completely than other mothers. I would love to see more between these two after Aragorn and Arwen meet… ;-)
“He had not expected to see Elros’s accusing eyes in his distant descendant’s face, or to hear Elendil’s voice emerging from those young lips. Or, come to that, to see in Aragorn the face of Isildur as he rejected Elrond’s advice and turned away from him.” Oh, wow. There’s something very powerful about that. I guess Elrond could never be fully prepared for this moment, no matter what wisdom he possessed. Not when he loves Estel so wholeheartedly. From what Elrond tells Glorfindel, it certainly sounds like Aragorn was rather less than understanding. Glorfindel is right, though, that he needs to be among men and find his own way. I still feel bad for Elrond, though :-/
Although, you did a truly great job getting into Aragorn’s head as well. I can’t say I’d have felt any less betrayed than he does. And on top of all that, he is feeling such self-doubt. Who can blame him when so very much is expected of him? Of course, he doesn’t know the half of it yet… And he’s worried about not being accepted as Chieftain…
I was as entranced as Aragorn when he came across Arwen. You gave such life and beauty to this part of their tale. Even if I didn’t know their story, their immediate connection is so evident. I like the sense that Aragorn has already fallen in love with her, yet for her it is more a recognition of something that she was waiting for without really knowing it. “For, despite the elven light in her eyes and the wisdom of her many days, he knew at once that his heart was lost to Arwen Undómiel.” Ah, so beautiful and so magical! *sigh* I love this.
Author's reply
Arwen is about 2700 years old. That might be young compared to C and G, but it's old enough to have your own mind and know when you are not prepared to be managed. She's happy to let her grandfather protect her most of the time - but when she knows it's time to be in Imladris, she can put her foot down.
C and G need to support each other - and they can(!) which is a consolation that Elrond can't have - but they are one step more detached when it comes to fighting the inevitable. Much as Elrond loves Estel, he is not going to surrender on this one without a fight - but maybe he needs to realise that he just has to settle for the time he can get.
Arwen is glad to be home. She has been in exile for a long time and isn't going to let little things like Glorfindel's doubt and her adar's concern stop her!
It's the old advice from the elves bit - they won't lie, but they will happily mislead and divert attention. I expect it worked on Gilraen to start with, but she's spent almost half her life among elves now and her vision has sharpened. As for knowing about Arwen - Gilraen has spent her time among ellyth. The gaps in the conversation were probably more noticeable. Estel's time has been spent in education and training and with the twins - girls probably didn't feature much in his thinking.
Poor Estel. He is going to be spending uncounted hours over the years muddy, malodorous, wet and alone in situations far worse than this. I'd go for the history lessons option myself - but that won't bring about the defeat of Sauron! It's just as well he can warm himself at night with the vision of elven perfection. (It's a bit of a double-edged sword really. Years of comfort with available female company might have diverted his attention - so the solitude and the mission kept him transfixed. Perhaps Elrond should send him straight off to Minas Tirith.)
Gilraen is a bit of an under-rated heroine really. (Like most of the mothers and wives.) But she is as responsible for making Estel what he is as Elrond. And then she sends him off to do his heroing, while she goes home and fades. Tolkien's women do, on the whole, fulfil this self-sacrificing role without complaint. Or, in many cases, even being given names. (But it's not a demanding, butt-kicking, Vampire-slaying modern kind of heroism.)
In the Book, Aragorn seems to have taken Elrond's information in his heroic mature stride - but I can't see a 20 year old, whose world has just been turned upside-down not throwing a bit of a hissy fit at how-everyone-knew-this-but-him, and it's-not-fair and how-can-he-do-this. Self-doubt is a very natural part of being young. As is the desire to blame everyone else.
And there was Arwen! In the right place, at the right time to become his motivation and his muse - and to keep him on the straight and narrow when temptation offered and he could not see his way through to the end.
(Although I doubt she felt quite the same way. Not being 20, in emotional chaos, or male.)
The next chapter is coming on apace. It really speeds things up when the bones are written in Appendix A with chunks of inevitable dialogue!