Oh goody. Haven't seen this one in a while. I think I like you having a bunch of stories going at once. It increases the surprise. :)
I love the idea of Arwen managing Lothlorien while C & G are at the White Council. Of course people would try to take advantage and I bet they are sorely disappointed! That was a great scene, as was the discussion of Arwen and 'love at first sight.' It was all funny, but this: ‘Your daernaneth would see that you were dusted regularly.’ still made me snort even when I just went back to copy/paste it.
And I loved Elrond. This line: Was his wife’s naneth incapable of making a remark that had only one simple meaning? just slayed me! And the idead of Elrohir and Elladan not doing one single thing but rather building a sequence of events that led to 'chaos' was great. Too easy to picture.
I loved the discussion of Isildur's choice and Elrond's involvement in it. And the conversation about driving Sauron out. You know that kind of stuff is right up my alley.
And I chuckled all the way through the description of Estel's joke. Imagine caring for a child being a challenge! :) And the 'flounce' was hilarious. And so was this exchange: ‘The difference is that we are not inclined to try for perfection,’ he teased. I woke the household up laughing at that. I fear I identify a bit too much with that when it comes to things I'd rather not be doing.
And of course I loved Elrond and Arwen's reunion. Very sweet.
I'm glad you continued this (not that I doubted you would). I really like the topic. Wonderful way to start my morning!
Author's reply
There are certain advantages to playing in several gardens at once - if one gets tricky, there's always something lighter to do. On the other hand, it can get a bit confusing.
Arwen would be trained to rule - and who better to leave in charge? But she is over 2500 and Elrond and Celebrian's daughter as well as G and C's granddaughter. I think she would be able to make mincemeat of most troublemakers - so charmingly that they wouldn't even realise. (Is it bad to say that that line amused me each time I reread it too?)
Elrond is not totally happy with Galadriel - he's not entirely sure if her interference is to help avoid Arwen's fate or promote it. And much as he cares for Estel, he doesn't want to encourage anything untoward. E2 were much younger when they managed to throw Imladris into chaos - it wouldn't happen now . . . . would it?
I clearly KNOW MORE now. I would never have indulged in casual reference to the Silmarillion this time last year. But I LIKE IT.
Poor Estel. He is used to his brothers giving him attention. And if they won't, then he'll just make them.
Elrond is delighted to see Arwen - but I doubt he'll let her go home.
Thank you - I think it will go further, although probably not as far as 3019.
daw the minstrel
· 30 April 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
I was having fun reading this chapter and watching Elrond's children be in charge, and then you threw that last ominous line at me!
I did enjoy seeing the twins and Arwen running realms though. Surely they were old enough at around 3000.
Author's reply
Well, I would think 3000 was old enough to make your own decisions - but then I'm not 6000. Or 8000. (I just feel it.) I sometimes wonder how Aragorn dealt with the age / experience gap - it really was quite large. Arwen must have had to be very careful not to rub it in - and decide on and stick to her role.
Ahh - too much fate attached to poor Elrond's family. They're like flies caught in a web - and the world depends on them doing it right.
Thank you for commenting.
utfrog98
· 30 April 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
Loved this from the first chapter. Keep it up if you can. A very interesting glance into a part of the story not seen.
Author's reply
Thank you - it's fun to look at things from Arwen's point of view - and wonder if she knew what was going on. She's rather too old to have been nothing but a pawn of fate. It will certainly go further, (not that I've started the next chapter), but I don't think it will go too far. I'm glad you are enjoying it.
grumpy
· 4 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
Very good story. Love the part where the twins where coming up with the idea of faking the taking of Arwin, just to keep their grandparents on their toes.
Also love how they are trying to keep Aragorn and Arwin apart, never knowing if by doing so they are actuall putting them together. If Arwin knew Aragorn as a boy, would she feel different toward him later, or is it just fate.
great story.
Author's reply
The twins just insist on adding their own wicked humour to serious situations. I think their grandparents might have played along too - they would be very pleased to see their grandsons being a bit more light-hearted, as they were in the good old days before Celebrian was wounded.
I think that if Arwen had been involved in caring for the infant Aragorn she would have found it more difficult to look on him as a desirable adult male. And if he was used to her nagging him about the state of his clothes and forcing him into the bath - and scolding him for raiding the kitchens or not doing his lessons, he might well have found her to be just another beautiful elleth rather than the embodiment of his desires. But her grandparents meant well - whatever they thought the outcome might be.
Glad you enjoyed it.
bejai
· 4 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
Ah, Bodkin, have I told you lately how much I adore you? And have I mentioned how in-awe I am of your ability to turn out whole stories in the time I take writing one chapter? And how brilliantly you write these characters and situations? I'd love to go through line by line and tell you how much I enjoyed this! One of the things I like the best about this one is the idea that C&G don't know what actions will bring about what they've seen, and what will prevent it. Ultimately, by keeping Arwen from meeting Aragorn until he was older, I think they were sealing his fate. But how were they to know?
Wonderful story, as ever.
Author's reply
Thank you, Bejai - your chapters are so much more COMPLEX than any of mine - and so involved with established history. (Why do you think I started off only writing post-4th age stuff in the Blessed Realm?) And I've got far too many stories going at the moment - although the purely frivolous, like Reflections, is not too stressful.
If you know exactly how to bring the future about, it would be quite horrific, really - and why would you bring about the things you did not want to happen - like losing your child or your grandchild? But yes, I think keeping Arwen away from the grubby little boy, to whom she was an annoying adult, probably ensured that romance was possible. But what was the intention? Celeborn probably wanted to keep them apart - with well-placed arrows if necessary - but did Galadriel know that Aragorn's bond with Arwen was the only thing that made him willing to endure the trials of kingship? Would she have sacrificed her daughter's child? Don't know. Suspect Celeborn wasn't entirely sure either.
I'm glad you liked it.
The Karenator
· 3 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
This was wonderful, Bodkin. The characters are so rich and alive! The language flowed seamlessly.
I very much liked the characterization of Galadriel and Celeborn. I could tell that they knew more than they were saying and Arwen knew it too. And we knew that Arwen knows that's something's up, but not exactly what. The line about her not being welcome home with this Dunedain child in residence was just great. She knows there's something about this kid that's important to her, but what, she has no idea.
I also really liked the discussion between Celeborn and Galadriel about messing with fate. You really had no idea how to change it and you really couldn't. Celeborn speculated that by keeping Arwen there that they might be playing into the hands of the very fate they wished to avoid. I think he might be right. If Arwen had know Estel as a child, she might not have seen him in the same light as she did when she met him. That could have changed everything. Their relationship would have been established as an adult to a child. That would have been hard to overcome when he grew up. Yep, I'd say that Elrond and his in-laws made a boo-boo.
I enjoyed the glimpse of the twins. They did seem to be finding some balance...especially if they were planning devilment. I'm not sure they really meant to do it, as much as they only intended to distract Arwen and amuse her. But you never know.
The ending moment with Celeborn was just wonderful. I loved the scene, the conversation and what wasn't said. The strength of their love came through as what would see them through whatever was to come. Gosh, that was nice!
I'm very excited to read this first chapter. I hope there are many more to come!
Karen
Author's reply
I'm blushing. G and C seem to have taken up quite a position in my imagination these days. Arwen knows that they have reasons for everything they do - even if they won't let on what they are. But she's no dumb elleth - she's Celebrian and Elrond's daughter and C and G's granddaughter, and if only she had had long enough, she could have become just as powerful as they were - they weren't going to be able to pull the wool over her eyes entirely.
Galadriel's mirror seems to be a two-edged sword - well more than two-edge, actually. She doesn't know if what she is seeing will happen / might happen / won't happen at all - and consequently any action might make precisely what you don't want to happen, come true. Celeborn is determined to protect Arwen - but I think his action only made her fate more likely. If Aragorn had grown from infancy looking on Arwen as the annoying person who made him eat spinach, he would have been much less likely to realise how beautiful she was - and had she had to change his bedding after he had eaten too many green apples, she would never have been able to see him as a gorgeous hunk.
Mind you, Estel was definitely good for the twins. A bit like having a puppy. He edged his way through the cracks in their armour and warmed them up again. I think they might have carried out their scheme, given any encouragement - and I think C and G might have let them get away with it. They will have been very pleased to see the spark of mischief relit in their grandsons.
I think Celeborn would have been a great father to Celebrian and grandfather to Arwen. He might have been one who was rather more demanding of boys. But a certain Dunedain had better watch it - the Lord of Lothlorien will not give an inch when it comes to his granddaughter.
There will be more - I'm not sure how much. I don't think I can face going through to Arwen's end, but you never know.
lwarren
· 3 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
I am just awe-struck with the way you have so many stories going all at once...and every one of them is wonderful (not to mention all the previously wonderful stories you've already done!).
The idea of this story is very well developed, even in this introductory chapter. And what an interesting subject! I confess at different times I wondered why Arwen stayed away from her father and brothers after the loss of her mother, when her presence might have done much to alleviate some of their grief. This is a plausible explanation, and you have done an excellent job in portraying Celeborn's and Galadriel's efforts to keep her in the dark about things. Celeborn, especially, is well-done here. Such a loving, protective grandfather and his fear for Arwen is barely contained. Their picnic in the tree at the end was one of those scenes that should contain a handkerchief warning. The visit by the twins and their plotting to play a trick on their grandparents was so in-character also, and I was relieved to see a little effort on E2's part at humor. But the interaction between Arwen and her grandparents - amazing. And Arwen's statement that she will never sail...insight? or perhaps just a very intelligent elleth putting 2 and 2 together and getting 4 (given the reports of the new residents under Elrond's care.) An amazing beginning, Bodkin; I look forward to the next chapter of this story (and Earendil's...and E2L...and...). :-)
linda
Author's reply
Too many stories going at once. (Although I don't really count Reflections, because that's just fun.) They insist on starting with half a page or so and then I'm caught. This one has been hanging round as no more than a wisp of thought for ages - until the twins arrived!
I'm really afraid that in his desperation to protect Arwen, Celeborn has actually facilitated the outcome he doesn't want to happen. If she had been in Imladris during Gilraen's early distress - changing Aragorn's smelly bottom and trying to get him to sleep at night, I'm pretty sure Arwen wouldn't have chosen to love him - and if she had been in charge of teaching him his manners and morals as a grubby little boy, I'm fairly sure he wouldn't have fallen for her. But then - what would have been the result? Would Aragorn have settled down to married life among the Dunedain and forgotten his high destiny? Would Sauron have succeeded?
I was glad to see the twins lightening up - I think Estel was good for them. His need re-awoke something in them that they had been suppressing for a long time.
And I think Celebrian had sufficient insight, especially when she was about to sail, to know Arwen's fate - and maybe said enough to get her daughter thinking. And Arwen is Galadriel's granddaughter - she has hidden talents and a well developed ability to read those around her.
(I'm pretty sure the next offering will be Elflings 5. And since Elflings 6 was written before 5, that will probably come after. Just need to re-read them a few more times.)
Hotaru9
· 3 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
This was lovely. I really like the relationships between Celeborn, Galadriel and Arwen. It's interesting because it's not a subject that is often wrote about. I really enjoyed the thoughts about Galadriel and her nature. Definitly ironic. It never really occured to me that Arwen knew her fate from that early but she definitly gets to that point later on. Congrats on another great piece of work!!
Author's reply
Arwen doesn't get much attention really, except as Mrs. Aragorn. I think there's a lot more to her than the elleth who lay around on sofas and moped. And more than a girl who stayed home with her embroidery while the world descended into war.
The whole mirror business is very difficult - and tied in with causality, too, I suppose. And the ripple in a pond business. It would take very little to change what you have foreseen - but should you? I think Celeborn's answer would definitely be 'yes', if it came to saving his granddaughter - but then Aragorn might never have been in the right place to do what he did. I don't know - it makes me glad I'm not Galadriel.
Arwen is Galadriel's granddaughter though - and her mother's child - and I'm sure she had inklings very early on of some involvement in the outcome of the war against Sauron - although it might not have been until she was so carefully kept away from Imladris that she began to realise what it might be.
Thank you! There will be some more - but I'm not sure how much.
daw the minstrel
· 3 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
I was struck as always by how beautifully you write, Bodkin. But I was also very interested in the plausibility of way you explain why news of Arwen was kept from Estel and why she stayed in Lothlorien for so long.
And then I got to the last part, where she says she will never sail, and was really taken aback. That's a brilliant idea. She's already decided to do what they're trying to keep her from, only she doesn't really know what it is.
Author's reply
I think maybe Galadriel is more prepared to accept that she can't change what must be, but Celeborn will fight tooth and nail to protect his granddaughter - without realising, perhaps, that he is actually facilitating romance by keeping her from acting as Estel's substitute carer and firm parent-figure.
But Arwen is no cipher - she knows more, I think, than her elders are prepared to accept. Maybe, if her mother talked to her before she was forced to sail - and told Arwen that she couldn't go with her to Aman, she might well have realised long ago that she would be facing Luthien's choice. (Dunno. Haven't entirely decided what I think yet.)
TithenFeredir
· 3 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
Mmmmm, there is so much to like about this story. I love the way you describe Lothlorien, especially the way you weave the description in with the dialogue rather than spending separate paragraphs to do it. One gets a feel for the setting in the midst of the action. Also, your description somehow really created an impression of the timelessness and tranquility of the place. The intereaction between Arwen and her relatives has a very intimate feel to it. She and the twins come across as ancient and yet young, while Celeborn and Galadriel seem much more grave and weighted with their long experience. Even though I know in general what's going to happen, I look forward to seeing how you present it. Very nice. ~TF
Author's reply
Thank you! And I didn't even realise I was doing it! (You need to be careful - I might even start thinking that I'm good at this.) I have set one or two pieces in Lothlorien now - and I think it is taking on a life of its own.
Arwen doesn't get much screen time, but she is a powerful elf and the daughter (and granddaughter) of some very strong elves - and she is more than just an ornament on Aragorn's arm. It must have taken some conviction to do what she did.
She and her brothers have been together for the best part of 3000 years and they know each other very well - and yet they still seem young to Elrond and their grandparents who have seen so much more.
I'm not sure how far this will go - I don't think I want to take it full circle back to Lothlorien in the Fourth Age - but there will be more.
Redheredh
· 3 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
Another great story. How do you keep them coming? I am thrilled that you gave credit to Arwen's wisdom as well as her perception. Whether you intended it or not, you have reinforced my opinion that timing is everything in free will - and fate.
When Arwen met Estel the first time, she did not fall in love with the youth, but later with the mature man, respectfully garbed by Galadriel herself. So perhaps there was another reason Arwen was sent to spend Estel's childhood in Lothlorien.
Elrond, if not Gilrean, might have been relieved that, if they had not dodged the arrow completly, had only been nicked when Arwen laughed at the boy's inevitable infatuation. Something that would not have happened if Arwen had not decided to return and face her fate. How ironic on both accounts!
Aragorn almost does not have to hear Elrond's words that he has no time for love, his destiny being so demanding. No Findulas or Eowyn would ever capture his heart's yearning like Arwen. By the time he came to Lothlorien, he was better able to understand his attraction to Arwen. Maybe Galadriel thought the possiblity of their doom had passed instead of knowing it had finally reached reality. No, she probably just wanted the moment to be a shining memory.
And Arwen, perhaps thinking her earlier sonjour had turned out to be needless caution, taken by surprise as Estel once was. No son of Thranduil or Amdir had ever captured her spirit's yearning like Aragorn. I like to think everyone in the know was sure it would be a quick realization when it did happen. Elu's heirs tending to be like that.
Elrohir and Elladan just contemplating pulling pranks again was comforting. Nice to attribute some of their recovery to Estel's presence. Arwen's own maturity is sometimes forgotten. Her saying it was not enough. But, you helped the reader see this very clearly through Celeborn's eyes.
Such a good story. Thanks for sharing it.
Author's reply
I do feel that, if Arwen had been in Imladris when Aragorn and Gilraen arrived, and she had bathed him and changed him and taught him his letters, she would have had great difficulty in falling in love with him. The cradle-snatching would have seemed even worse than it did when she thought about being two and a half thousand years older than him. And he (whilst finding her beautiful) would have had difficulty feeling romantic about someone who had been a mother-substitute and who had doubtless been rather scathing about some of his youthful escapades. Keeping them apart might have been intended to prevent any romance - but it also made romance more likely.
Elrohir and Elladan had spent a lot of years fighting at the side of the Dunedain - but there is something about being the protectors of a small and unhappy child. Estel slipped into their hearts - and his presence was healing for them. But I think they might have been more able to resist him if they had realised what fate intended for him and their sister.
elliska
· 3 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
Gosh Bodkin! How do you do all these stories at once. It would be one thing if you didn't regularly update them, but you do! I just don't see how you do it!
This one loos great to. This is a great topic with a lot of potential. You have already hit on a lot of it here. Watching Arwen spar with Celeborn and Galadriel is just great. She does a great job of managing them while not being led herself. Of course, being who she is, she would be able to. But you portray it so well.
And the twins' plan to tease their grandparents was just evil. It would have been fun to see that done but Arwen's response is more realistic/what one would expect of her (but it still would have been fun). And I like the way you describe the twins as set on scouring Arda of all evil but then softened by the appearance of Estel. I have always thought of it that way too.
Love your insights/analysis into/of canon, such as: It would be ironic,’ she allowed, ‘if, in the end, it turns out to be the results of my love for your daeradar that change the world, rather than my use of power
and
If we learned anything from Lúthien’s fate,’ she added softly, ‘surely it is that there are times when any action can only make things worse.
And I loved the idea of Arwen and Celeborn having 'their tree.' And that conversation she had with him in it! She is lucky he didn't fall out of the tree. Poor Celeborn. He really goes through a lot. Such a good daeradar!
Looking forward to the updates on this one.
Author's reply
I admit - too many stories at once. But they just insist on starting - this one has been developing for a while, but hasn't yet moved beyond this chapter.
Arwen often seems a bit wishy-washy - but she was much more than an elleth lying around on a sofa moping about her love. She was Galadriel's granddaughter after all - and the descendant of tough cookies like Celebrian, Elwing, Luthien and Idril. Not to mention her male kin. And she's spent quite a large proportion of the last five hundred years taking training from Galadriel. (Aragorn might have chickened out of the relationship if he had only considered it for a while.)
I'm not entirely sure that the twins didn't attempt to carry through with their plot - but it would take more than that to fool C and G. (They might have gone along with the game, though, just for the pleasure of seeing the twins having fun.) The twins were better than they had been, but Estel speeded up the process. He managed to get under their guard, in the way that helpless little creatures can. I can't think of any other reason why this one heir of Isildur would come to mean so much to them.
And I do think it was Galadriel's love for Celeborn that made the difference in the end - and stopped her meeting the fate of all the other Noldor princes.
Poor Celeborn, indeed. He lost so many of those he loved - which is why he must have gone to join Galadriel - and Celebrian - in the end.
Dot
· 3 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
This looks great, Bodkin! I love your depiction of Arwen. She has the wisdom of her age and her bloodline, a love and devotion to her family that is very touching, and an acceptance of fate that should be an example to us all.
Her grandparents clearly weren’t counting on her perception. It must have been so difficult for Galadriel, to know something of what was to come, yet to never be sure and to choose this sheltering and protection of Arwen as the way to show her love. I think I felt worse for Celeborn, though. He comes across as such a grandfather in this, a grandfather who would protect Arwen from anything that was within his power to do so. How helpless he must feel sometimes in the face of visions and feelings, things that must be interpreted without the promise of a definite outcome.
I’m so glad that Elladan and Elrohir seem to be emerging from the “diamond-hard shell of ice”. You’ve painted such a heart-breaking picture of Celebrían’s family after her suffering and departure. They all seemed to find a way to come through it, be it with the strength of friends or the nurturing and protection of an adult grandchild and it seems that young Aragorn now is working some magic with Elladan and Elrohir. The twins must be somewhat torn too, between wanting their sister back and trusting that their grandparents and father know best. I’m still laughing at the little plan they were concocting – that would have been fun!
My favourite part of this chapter was the scene between Celeborn and Arwen. The closeness between them is lovely to see, but there’s a sense of sadness too because the great love between them means that Arwen’s future will bring such sorrow to her grandfather. ‘I will never sail,’ she shrugged. ‘I have long known it – and so did Naneth. She told me before she left that what she regretted most was that she would never see my children.’ I actually really like that idea. The acceptance and strength of Arwen and her mother is humbling to see and it also explains why the knowledge that she would never again see her mother didn’t keep her from making her choice to give herself to Aragorn.
Anyway, I’d be here all night if I picked out every detail of this that I loved. It would have been perfect even if you had left it here but I’m so glad there’s going to be more. :-)
Author's reply
Like most grandparents, C and G still think of Arwen as a kid - after all she's only around 2700. They don't want her making irrevocable decisions - that's their job.
Celeborn sees a lot of Luthien in Arwen, I think - and the thought of losing her to the same fate tears him apart. He lost Luthien to death and Celebrian to torment and the Undying Lands - he knows that he is likely to lose Galadriel, and he doesn't want to abandon the fight to save Arwen and just let events take their course. Galadriel is, I think, a little more fatalistic and knows enough about her visions to realise that deliberate action cannot change things.
The twins have been recovering slowly - they are no longer as driven to exterminate orcs as they were, but they have been - well, guarded. Aragorn has slipped beneath their defences and given them a three-dimensional person to protect and guide. I'm not sure they didn't go a bit further with their plan - but C and G are not easy to fool, (although they might have let them have some fun here - they could do with it).
Foresight is a gift (curse?) of both sides of Arwen's family - and I think that, close to death as she was, Celebrian would have had a clear sight of things hidden to others. And maybe she was granted the chance to bid Arwen a proper goodbye.
It was going to be a single chapter - until I noticed the date. I don't think it will go as far as the time of the quest, but there should be more.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 3 April 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
This has the hallmarks of a great story. I love Arwen's perception - she knows perfectly well that she is being kept away, and has made an astute guess at the reason. Her relationships with the males in her life are wonderful - with the brothers, and her grandfather. I always find Galdriel a little intimidating, though.
The twins' plot to pretend to abduct their sister was great - I would have loved to have seen that! They are finally coming out of their 'diamond-hard shell of ice'. What an evocative, sad, image of them.
Jay
Author's reply
All her male relations want to protect her and keep her safe - and ironically, it is the one thing they cannot do. They can keep her away from orcs and battles - but she is, in a way, the elves' final sacrifice and there's not a thing they can do about it.
It must be difficult for Galadriel - she lives in two worlds, really - the present and the possible. I don't know how she would have coped without Celeborn to hold her solidly in the real world. But Arwen is her granddaughter - and she has elements of Galadriel in her. I think she would be one person among the few whom Galadriel did not - could not intimidate.
I rather liked the twins' plot. I'm not entirely sure they didn't play it out to a degree - although I don't think they would have fooled G and C for a moment (which would have been a dreadful disappointment to them). But I wouldn't have wanted to be Arwen, living with their grandparents after a scheme like that, so I reckon she put her foot down.