Reviews (214)

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The danger here is that the events could start taking over from Arwen and how they affect her. There is too much of a temptation to go with Major Events! I have loved featuring Gilraen and thinking about how it was for her to live in Imladris over many years - and for her to wave off her only child into a world where she could never count on seeing him again, or hearing his voice on the end of the phone. I like asides - and attempts at humour - to lighten a story. And having the Tale of Years in front of me is very handy! Although the story is rapidly approaching a point of action overkill. I can imagine Arwen getting very frustrated as everyone wants to protect her and keep her from all harm. Waiting must be so hard for her - even with elven patience! Thank you. I'm glad you are enjoying this. It's great fun to write.

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Poor Aragorn - waiting in Minas Tirith while trying to learn - and impose on others - his own style of kingship must have been hard. But he knew he could trust her. (And Elrond, even if Aragorn must have been torn by the pain he was inflicting on his foster father.) Arwen could be patient and loving while Aragorn needed it - but her frustration just couldn't be contained when they were earnestly telling her that they needed her to be safe! And she knows just how easy it would be for Aragorn to die out there in the wild - on some insignificant task, from some unconsidered injury, so that all comes to nothing. Still. Poor Aragorn had only just roused - he didn't know why she was so cross!

Author's reply

Thank you. I am glad you are enjoying it. In some ways, it is getting simpler to put together as it goes on - and, in other ways, the fact the story is coming close to the Actual Trilogy is going to make it far more complicated!

Author's reply

It is fascinating how the same themes emerge - although I suppose that could be why we like each other's presentation of the world: if we were into fantasising about Elrond's previously-unknown daughter running off with Legolas - or other things - we would be looking for something completely different. Gilraen spent the better part of 60-70 years in Rivendell - she had plenty of time to work out what she found hard to cope with there. And I reckon - completely unscientifically - that it probably contributed to her premature death. For much of that time she felt completely irrelevant. Not just... human, but purposeless. Not special. Treated kindly, consulted - but irrelevant. Her purpose, over those last years was to come to know the elf who would, perhaps, if all went well, marry her son. That done - she wanted to be free. Even if free meant dead. And, in some ways, she could see how hard it will be for Arwen - to be taken out of some perpetual Fairyland and put down in the real world, because she had endured the ... dislocation of it. And at least arriving in Rivendell is like being wrapped in cotton candy. Becoming a mortal queen of men must be more like having protection torn away and being exposed to a cold wind. I don't know that Elrond is thinking of making everyone a warrior - although some of those old orchid-growers are probably employing well-used elven blades in their pruning - blades that have been sharpened on orc-bone. But he has seen sieges before and endured battle - and his people are not going to be defenceless. They need to be reminded that the outside world can be dangerous. And Arwen would be a good person to coax them into compliance! (And Glorfindel and Elrond's debate over Dain is one way to detail the time scale! Balin to Moria 2989.) Poor poorly Aragorn. Tucked in his bed, not realising just how badly he had frightened his beloved - and just how aware she was of the frailty of mortal life. While her brothers tell her how much peace of mind it gives them knowing that she is safe. Yeah, right, you two! Think how she feels!! I'm sure she got over it enough to indulge in a little consolation before Aragorn was well enough to go off and put himself in danger again. Gandalf is feeling a little frustrated here. And a bit stupid. (Not that anyone would dare tell him.) He wants Bilbo supervised - not to end up in unfriendly hands! And the Gollum search, indeed (3001) begins. Which is, most definitely, interminable. Poor Gilraen. I did want her to see her son this one last time. And, of course, she had her big line here. Her life was given up to raising this son and setting him free to take his chance in the world - and she could see that he was a good'un. I don't blame her for not wanting to know how the last years turned out. Better to die in hope than live and know he failed, I suppose. Though better still to live and see his success. Thank you. This chapter flowed. And the next one is coming on.

Author's reply

There were the best part of 50 years to cover between their betrothal and marriage - and including current affairs seemed a good way of showing the passage of time. And then - I can't imagine that Gandalf - once he had begun to suspect the ring - would have been too keen to let Bilbo go off and wander over his former footsteps, even in the care of dwarves. He would want to know where he was and that he was protected from any attack. Having the twins keep an eye on him until he found his way back to Rivendell would reassure him that no information would get back to Sauron. I reckon Arwen must have got rather fed up with being the protected sister/daughter/granddaughter/beloved/adopted niece of all and sundry. Even if she understood the reasons behind it.

Author's reply

I'm sorry! It's just that there are so many tragic partings and losses - and when you come to look at them, they are quite key to the development of the characters. And poor Gilraen gets ignored enough - she wanted the chance to see her boy one last time and deliver her key line. They are getting closer to the quest and their eventual marriage, though. Although, given that that entails the separation-until-the-world-is-remade ofr Elrond and Arwen, that isn't totally happy either!

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Poor Aragorn. I don't know that he'd done anything particularly awful - except let a dirty-handed and incompetent healer have a go at fixing him - but incidents like this must really have rubbed in just how vulnerable he was. A dirty knife in the wrong place too far from help and the hope of the Dunedain is pushing up daisies in an unmarked grave somewhere. And everyone would rather their loved ones were safe at home - but Arwen (and Elrond) never get that - they sit at home and fix them when they're hurt and then send them off into danger again. Tolkien could have left Gilraen alive to see Aragorn's success. It wouldn't have been too much of a twist in the tale - but there aren't many happy parents around anywhere really. Especially not mothers. Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.

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Poor Gilraen had her son for so short a time - and then he went out into the world and their meetings must have been brief and unsatisfactory. And they both knew she was saying goodbye. Which upsets me - and goes to prove that I'm on the wrong side of this generation thing now. You wouldn't believe how much time I wasted trying to find out about the life cycle of beetles and whether they grew larger and shed the skins. I could just see this shiny iridescent stag-beetle armour being shucked and dropped to the floor. Balrog slayer / Moria. Yep. Glad he didn't have to go and do it again, though. Thanks for commenting!

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I'm sorry - but Gilraen features in the next chapter too. Gilraen's is such a typically female role - self-sacrifice for your children, watching and waiting, surviving on whatever crumbs fate offers. And not seeing the end. Not having the grandchildren to love. Not knowing if all comes out as they hope or ends in disaster. The twins have developed humour as a method of self-defence, I think. Against the bleakness of despair that affected them after their mother's wounding. It came naturally to them when they were young - but now it can be a bit forced. It relaxes again once they are in Valinor, although a trace of sadness is still there. I nearly chopped out the Shire - but it linked together what was going on. (I was quite surprised when I first realised the betrothal / Frodo's parents' death was the same year.) And it balanced the other E2 scene. I haven't yet decided when this will stop - I hope the wedding, but if they keep on talking . . . It is certainly not going to go into detail about Aragorn's adventures in Questland. Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.

Author's reply

There always seem to be slightly odd overtones to the death of Drogo and Primula - and having a failed elven rescue attempt could well be part of that! Then, the other idea that occurred was - a hobbit-like, fish-eating creature who might just have been searching for a Baggins round about this time could well have been creeping along the Brandywine. Gilraen lived nearly thirty years after the betrothal - but I think she had given up. Aragorn had grown and gone and he had a prospective bride. She is in the next chapter, though. Arwen's kin couldn't help but find this hard - even knowing that the chances of it happening were slim - but then Aragorn's not succeeding would have been even worse on a world-wide level. Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.

Author's reply

Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it. It must have been so difficult for Gilraen to live in Imladris - not so much for Aragorn because he grew up with it. And that, probably, put enough elf in the man for Arwen to love him. Goodness, it all twists together like barley sugar! The chance of all this blowing up in their faces - and a grieving Arwen sailing after Aragorn's death - must have been far greater than that of actually achieving the happy(ish) ending. And there were a lot of strong ellyth that didn't get mentioned. Idril's mother, for example. And Nimloth. I nearly chopped the Shire scene - but putting in some of the outside events is a real help in showing how time is passing - and in linking events, so it got to stay. This story is flowing rather well at the moment, so the next chapter is likely to arrive quite soon.

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Poor Gilraen and Elrond indeed. They have a lot in common really - those whose duty is to put things in motion, provide teaching - and then endure the consequences. Aragorn needed the strength of his bond with Arwen to help him endure the coming years. It's all very well aiming for the stars, but he needed something that was rather more attainable. Out of reach, yes, but close enough to stretch for it. I just wish both Gilraen and Elrond could be there to enjoy the fruits of Aragorn's success.

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Thank you. Gilraen is a strong and determined woman - who usually gets totally disregarded. To take yourself off to an alien environment - on your own - and live there to safeguard your child takes a lot of courage. There is something self-sacrifical about her - which should strike a chord in Elrond, who is also compelled to stand back and let those he loves make decisions that cause him pain. Frodo's parents - things are coming together, and the pace is picking up. There was something odd about their accident - could this have been it? Or was something creeping into the Shire seeking a Baggins? The Elrondionnath make dangerous enemies. Fortunately they are never forced to choose on this one! Estel treats their sister just as they - and their adar - would expect. It could, in fact, be Arwen who is forced in the end to be a little more demanding! Celeborn has been doing his best to avert this version of the future - and he has failed. He is angry with Aragorn - with fate - with Arwen herself - and he is furious with Galadriel. But he will come round - he's a practical elf. It will grieve him, but what's done is done. He has no intention of going anywhere while Arwen might need him, though. Arwen's decision. She has known what the future might hold for her since before her naneth sailed, but she did not realise the sweetness of love - or the pleasure of touch. But it will be a long time before she learns of other compensations for her choice!

Author's reply

Thank you. Celeborn is not best pleased. Arwen managed him as well as could be expected at the time, I think. And, when poring over lists of what happened when, I saw that poor Primula and Drogo drowned the same year that Aragorn and Arwen were betrothed - so it seemed a good idea to show it. It nearly got cut for irrelevance, but it shows how events are coming together, so I left it. Estel is safe with the twins as long as Arwen is happy - but Valar help him if he upsets her! The Elrondionnath make bad enemies - as generations of orcs can attest. I think Arwen long knew her fate was intertwined with Isildur's heirs - but was surprised and pleased to find that she loved Aragorn for himself.

Author's reply

I just hope you're feeling better. Rest. Take your time. Enjoy being looked after! Glorfindel is very tuned to Elrond, I think. And Elrond is not one to ask for help, so he has to be watched. Glorfindel probably had to learn to hear his pain when Celebrian was injured, so that he could be there as needed. Elrond has a really tough time - from birth onwards, really, although the first half of the Third Age was an interlude of peace. It is difficult to do justice to him really - so I'm pleased you liked that. My whole reason for starting this was an enormous frustration with the way Arwen is so often portrayed. She's 2700 years old (ish), Elrond's daughter, Galadriel and Celeborn's granddaughter, the heir of all sorts of powerful elves - she is not going to be some dreep of an elleth. Aragorn is going to count on her understanding of ruling - certainly at first - and she is going to be a major support to him as he adjusts to a role that he is going to find a complete departure from his earlier life. I'm glad you liked that part! I debated for a while whether to include the Brandywine part - but showing that time is passing and events are coming together seemed to make it relevant. The intrusion of the twins is, of course, speculative! But I get the feeling that something always seemed a bit odd about the accident that killed Drogo and Primula - and here's a suggestion. Another thought that entered my head was about what caused the boat to overturn - Baggins, Shire. I wondered whether the arrive of a certain pair of twins might have driven off another small creature with bad hair and a tendency to wear a square of carpet. Aragorn grew up being tormented by Elladan and Elrohir - and knows when they are dangerous. They are potentially dangerous as far as Arwen is concerned, but, like guard dogs, as long as Arwen is happy, they will not bite. Gilraen makes the next chapter too! I regret her not surviving to see Aragorn's success - and Elrond not remaining long enough to know Arwen's children and see that she is indeed happy with her choice. Thank you. I'm flattered. The chapters are flowing at the moment, so the next one probably won't be too long in coming.

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Elves might be more equal in their treatment of the genders - but they still seem to have quite a patriarchal society. Celeborn is angry. What he doesn't realise, is that he doesn't scare either his wife or his granddaughter. I imagine that, inside, Aragorn was cringing rather. Not least because he probably agreed with Celeborn. He is not the kind of man to want to offer less than perfection to the girl of his dreams - and he would probably put the same limitations on their betrothal as Elrond. From choice. But Arwen will let him get away with it, because I think her intention here was to stake her claim and offer him hope of success. At least, now the decision is made, Elrond can let it be. It will cause him grief, certainly, but he can put off thinking about that for now. And Elrond sailing while Arwen lives is one of those irritating things (sorry, Tolkien). An elf who has endured so much would surely strive to endure another couple of centuries - how long would that be to someone who has lived since the First Age? Same with Galadriel, really. Aragorn's reign would be no more than a blink of time to her. However much the failure of their Rings told on them, they could surely have lasted a little longer. But it had to be the End, didn't it. Elves gone / Men in charge. Transition. So they had to sail - without seeing that Arwen was happy, without seeing her children, without helping her endure her last days. The elven equivalent of killing off parents. But Elrond won't have seen it as a literary device! Next chapter is flowing quite well at the moment, too.

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This story has been creeping along since April! But, every now and then, it seems to burst into life - and just at the moment it is flowing nicely. Sometimes, Elrond's role in all this seems to be one of the very hardest - it's not easy to be the one who sends those he loves into situations where he knows that, whatever the outcome, it will cause them all suffering. These choices are not Elrond's to make - but he has to be willing to allow the situations in which they are made. He had to allow Isildur's bad decision - knowing that it would probably lead to another age of strife, and he couldn't knock Arwen on the head and send her with her mother - because denying her her part in this could have caused the end of all things. I don't know if Aragorn could have managed a snappy comeback to anyone after a bit longer in the Golden Wood - I think it might turn mortal brains to marshmallow. And I'm glad you mentioned Galadriel's test of Aragorn. She put on full entrancement mode - and she couldn't stop him seeing Arwen. And he did need a bath! This meeting would have been harder on Aragorn anywhere else, I think. I'm not sure he could have become betrothed to Arwen anywhere else. Aragorn has learned to be hard-headed and practical - and this is not what he would see as a sensible move. But here - Arwen can twist him round her little finger, and she knows that he needs this level of commitment - yes, she is his shining star, but she has to be within reach, even if only just. Haldir is not all that fond of mortals, I think. Perhaps he has some issues from the Last Alliance. And this - relationship - is not being all that warmly received by his lord. Even if his lady is smiling (sadly) on it. Arwen has had much longer to think about all this. She was probably aware of it centuries before Aragorn was born - and she would have made the first move. I'm glad you liked it.

Author's reply

Thank you. I am enjoying writing this and if I can make anyone feel they're there then I am delighted! I'm glad you like it. The next chapter is partly done, so more fairly soon!

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Too much pain, perhaps? I think Arwen came to terms with this outcome long since. Didn't know it would be Aragorn, perhaps. She probably had lots of experience of being adored by assorted heirs of the Dunedain. But when it came to it, she knew. Gilraen lives a good few years yet - but I think she might well have felt that handing her son to his betrothed removed the obligation on her to fight to the end. He no longer needs her in the same way to provide him with emotional stability. He has the Evenstar for that. Thank you.

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Gilraen will last a good few years yet - until 3007, I think. But I don't think she wanted to survive to the end. There's the 'I gave hope....' bit that seems to me to suggest that she felt useless after Aragorn grew up, even though she lived another fifty odd years after he went off into the wild - and possibly that she sank into depression. The banks of the Brandywine incident. Yes. Happened the same year as the Aragorn/Arwen betrothal - which is what put this section into my head. And so many things do seem to twine round each other. Glad it provoked thought!

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Thank you. As I began to think about this moment, I found it hard to imagine that Aragorn would - even with a bit of tacit support from Galadriel - take the step of pursuing Arwen at this time. He has nothing (to his mind) to offer her - he is a wanderer, in exile - and he would remember Elrond's words. Arwen, on the other hand, has had a lot of time to think about this - and she can see that Aragorn needs the hope provided by the betrothal - to anchor him and to offer him some light at the end of a long tunnel. Haldir - might have been interested in Arwen if she had shown any signs of interest in him. But she never did. And his anger here is more the resentment of family against an unsuitable boyfriend. Galadriel has accepted that she can't change the inevitable by fighting it head on - but Celeborn isn't there yet. Seeing Earendil in Aragorn - and realising that the age is ending and any hope of success is in his hands - will probably help him to defer judgment, at least. I'm glad you liked it. More soon.

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Thank you. I'm glad you like the chapter. In some ways, there is a lot to be said for the chapters where some of the action (and language) is set. The tone - to my mind, Lothlorien is so different - a dream-world that is not entirely set in the present in Arda. Galadriel has (maybe) done neither herself nor the Wood a favour by making it so removed from life outside - but it must have been very disconcerting for those who came into the Wood. Things move more slowly - more poetically - with a greater detachment. I'm not sure that Aragorn would have - could have - become betrothed to Arwen anywhere else. He would have been too aware of the many complications and resisted more strongly. (I am sure she must have been the chief mover.) Glorfindel is a great support for Elrond. He would find it even harder to do what he must without Glorfindel at his shoulder. And Elrond is not the only elf to have to endure division - even if most of those who have suffered are members of his family! Galadriel is more practical, I think. The male elves are wrapped up in wanting to protect Arwen - but Galadrie acknowledges that her granddaughter's role is as important as - if not even more important than - anything else that's going on. Aragorn needs to be there - ready and strong and prepared to resist to his last breath - and he can't do that without Arwen's support. Celeborn wants to stand between his granddaughter and her fate and is finding it hard to realise that he can't. But at least he will be able to stand by her until the end.

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Thank you. Thirty years have passed quite quickly - and 20 - 50 is quite a significant time, even in a man who can expect another hundred years or more of life. Arwen has grown up to run kingdoms (just as well, really) and managing logistics is a bit part of that. Her grandparents are happy to delegate such matters to her - knowing that she needs to be able to do it. Yes, the cloth is intended for Fellowship cloaks! I can't see Aragorn taking the step of asking Arwen to commit to him at this time - even in the dream-like atmosphere of Lothlorien. He knows in too great a depth how far he is from achieving the goal of defeating Sauron and reuniting the kingdom. He has nowhere to take a bride - except perhaps a village in the Angle. He would not consider taking Arwen from the protection of her family - it would be dishonourable. But Arwen could see that he desperately needed something to reinforce his hope of success / drive / ambition - and she could push him into making a commitment. Not passive. Not weak. A worthy partner.

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Aragorn pretty much had to turn up here. There's only so much that can be done on the in-between sections - unless the chapter count is going to go up into the hundreds. (And I reckon 12 is a pretty good number if you can manage it.) And I'm glad you got excited enough to think about skimming ahead! Outside difficulties - require switching the focus from Arwen. Her male relatives are all determined to protect her from nastiness. But the nastiness is there. Elrond is right to be proud of his daughter - she will do what is right. And the poor elf must have been tormented by doubts throughout the last half-millennium or so of the Third Age. Along the lines of 'does the end justify the means' and lots of 'could have' versus 'should have'. I love the thought of 'Push him Elrond' - that made me laugh just in imagination. It wouldn't take much brain for someone to realise that E2 were likely to turn up when needed - and that their peregrinations could lead to something or someone interesting. (Some of these thoughts just arrive.) Poor Aragorn. I can't imagine the Galadhrim would think too highly of him. Especially those who met him before he bathed! And the whole atmosphere of the Golden Wood - its dreamlike perfection - is just the kind of thing that would make a grounded Dunadan do something he didn't mean to. Especially when pushed by an elleth of decision. I'm glad you liked it.

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You have had more important things to think about than reviewing. (Sleep, eat, get well!) I'm glad you loved Celeborn - he is so desperate to protect Arwen, and is finding it so hard to acknowledge her as an adult, able to make her own decisions. He needed to hear what Mithrandir had to say - Galadriel has been saying similar things, but she's his wife, so he doesn't need to listen! Hopefully, Mithrandir has made a chink in his armour - and Celeborn will be able to accept Arwen's choice. Because she will need him - and Galadriel and Elrond will need to know that they have left her safe with her daeradar to watch over her. Saruman must have been stretching his arm for decades while everyone was too blind to notice - and he was arrogant! He will have refused to acknowledge Celeborn and the twins as being any danger to him. Inferior, unimportant elves - like Thranduil. Not Eldar. I'm glad you enjoyed the twins' perspective on the - er - rather shaggy Aragorn. I'm sure they find the bathing and grooming of men their least appetising characteristic - and are disappointed to find that Estel has sunk to the level of those around him. Glad you liked it!