Firnsarnien
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Ah! A new story from you! :) I didn't see an author alert over at Fanfic.net so I'm really glad I found this here! And it's turning out so beautifully! It has a young Leggy and a pre-Celuwen (not sure if I spelled that one right) Eilian and even a pre-Alfirin Ithilden! LOL Yay! I like it best when they were single 'cause it seems Leggy got more attention from them before they became hitched! LOL Ooooh, and Elrond and Elrohir are even in this story. Gosh, can things get any better? Especially with Thranduil worrying that the twins grief might remind Eilian and Leggy of their own when their naneth was killed! And holy moly, Turgon's back again! Yay!
I felt so sorry for him though. He had no one to help him with his arrows! What a loser his father is! He almost reminds me of an alcoholic in some ways. Especially when he slammed through the door to tell them to be quiet! And Amdir, my goodness, he sure must have been a brat. It seems Leggy has had a calming influence on him when he's older despite his family's say in things. And that's definitely a good thing!
I can't wait to see what happens when Eilian and Leggy finally do meet up with the twins (if they do). And what on earth do you have planned for this camping trip? Hmmmm? Elrohir, Elladan, Leggy on camping trip, Mithrandir's presence, men attacking Elves, hmmmmmmm, yup, definitely gonna be a lot of excitement coming up, me thinks! ;) Can't wait for it! :) Hurry, will ya? LOL
Author's reply
Thank you, Firnsarnien. I like seeing the brothers together too. And you're right: Legolas does get more attention from them when they're single. Of course, as he grows older, he needs less attention from them too, but still, I really like the way they nurtured him after his mother died. He was lucky in a lot of way, compared to Turgon, say, or even to the twins, who have a loving family but have distanced themselves a bit at the moment.
I feel bad for Turgon too. That comparison of his father to an alcoholic is interesting. He's not one, but he does let himself get absorbed in his own concerns. He helped his son paint the arrows and let Turgon know it was fine to have a different aesthetic if he wanted to, but then inspiration struck and he wandered off to leave the poor kid struggling.
You list all the things I have going so far! Good. I just hope I can keep them all straight long enough to work them out. :-)
Alice
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Ooh, plot twist! My intrest in this this story has just really shot up. Elladan and Elrohir visiting present endless possibilities. Will Thranduil offer unwanted advice? Will they upset Legolas (because we all so know that Thranduil's thoughts of keeping Legolas away from them being entirely possible are famous last words)? And what's mithrandir's role in this tale? Oh the possibilities. And it's going to be fun to see Ithilden relate to people as a friend instead of brother/commander/flustered suitor/upstanding citizen. I can't wait for the next chapter.
I also wanted to comment on the nice comparisons you've got going. Ithilden is son of a ruler just like the Peredhil boys yet they all react differently to a similar tragedy. Also, nice touch with showing the inadequacy of Turgon's parents by having his Dad leave him on his own to make arrows and having Thranduil make sure that someone would be able to help Legolas. An adult needs to adopt Turgon. He's clearly not being adequately parented. I have friends with parents similar to Turgon's. The fall out isn't pretty. I think a capable adult definitely needs to "adopt" Turgon. Or someone needs to give his parents a talking to.
I'm really looking forward to the next chapter. Please update soon.
Author's reply
Yes, plot twist. :-)
I was excited when I realized that I might be able to incorporate the twins into this story. I do think I'll have to keep Legolas more or less away from them because in "Question of Duty" I have him meet them for the first time. Believe me, I cursed that out when I realized it! But there are no limits on them meeting the rest of the family.
Thank you for the compliment about the comparisons. Yes, you're supposed to see all these sets of parent/child relationships. You're a very perceptive reader, Alice. Poor Turgon. I feel so sorry for him.
Dot
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Yeah, I *was* actually getting a bit tired of these stories… LOL. You nutter.
What a great surprise there was in this chapter! And I just loved Thranduil in it too.
Galivion always makes me smile. I can’t imagine having to deal with both Ithilden and Thranduil when they’re both feeling particularly determined about something. I like the thought of Ithilden having to march off to Esgaroth himself. I can just picture the locals fleeing in terror before him…
I really was surprised to see Mithrandir, Elladan and Elrohir arrive. What a striking image they make too. I always feel a little bemused at how enthusiastically Thranduil greets Mithrandir. Maybe he just enjoys seeing how nervous his presence makes his advisors! Well done to Thranduil for correctly identifying each of the twins! How mortifying if he hadn’t.
That entire scene in Thranduil’s office was just so painful. The moment Thranduil realised that the twins’ manner reminded him of someone, I figured it had to be Eilian. Their grief is obvious but more than that they seem to be very tightly strung beneath any outward calm, clearly wanting to be doing anything other than sitting still and feigning politeness. Actually, they kind of remind me too of Elrond in ‘The Tide of Times’ (?) when Thranduil goes to Imladris for another White Council meeting and he’s utterly preoccupied by whatever his sons are up to as well as still coping with the departure of Celebrían. “They graciously agreed to accompany me […]” Hmm, yeah I’ll bet they did. I can just imagine the conversation. I must say, I do like how very sympathetic Mithrandir is. I suppose he’s taken it upon himself to try to pull the twins out of that relentless drive for revenge if they won’t agree to go home. I really feel for them. The fact that there are two of them makes it easier for them to leave home even if it does mean that they end up isolating themselves from the rest of their family. In some ways it’s a good thing that Thranduil’s eldest sons were needed in Mirkwood because it meant that there was no way they could gallivant off for personal reasons. And even when Ithilden and Eilian did have problems, they were surrounded by people who understood and wanted to help. By ‘people’, I guess I mostly mean Maltanaur!!
I hope we’ll see more of the sons of Elrond, actually. I thought you depicted them really well. You gave the impression that their natural warmth and openness has been lost amid grief and anger and the pleasure they take in killing Orcs is very understandable, as is their almost desperate need to do it. They haven’t said much so far but I thought they were still very real and not just two lunatics off on a killing spree, which is how they have appeared in some stories.
As I said, I absolutely love Thranduil here. I cringed when he realised that Orcs were responsible for Celebrían’s sailing. But you know, I really liked the fact that his first thought was for how Elrond must be feeling. God, as bad as it was for Thranduil’s family to lose Lorellin, can you even begin to imagine what it must have been like for Elrond’s to watch Celebrían suffer until she just could not take it anymore? “Then he shoved thoughts of Lorellin’s last moments into the dark corner of his mind.” Oh, ouch. I hadn’t really thought about that before but it’s something that must really plague him in his darker moments. To me, Thranduil appears the closest to panic that I’ve ever seen him when he thinks about how hard his sons found dealing with their own grief and then hurries into action to prevent old wounds being reopened. It’s just fascinating. It’s almost as though someone with a terrible illness landed on his doorstep and he’s trying to quarantine his family. I guess he’s trying to protect the walls he’s built up himself too, whether he realises it or not. Do Mithrandir and the twins know about Lorellin? Oh, and is there any chance we’ll get to see a conversation between Ithilden, Elladan and Elrohir? Pretty please??!
So Legolas & co. are off on a camping trip? That sounds like something that’ll go smoothly…
What can I say about the glimpse into Turgon’s home life? I really feel for him. Ah, so his father is a minstrel? Turgon himself seems quite artistic. I wonder why on earth Turgon decided to become a warrior. I loved the idea that the crest he used was so colourful. At first I thought maybe his father had chosen the design and Turgon had to go along with it so that his father would help him but as I recall, Turgon loved vivid colours even as a young child. Lord knows what Penntalion will think of them, though! There’s something very poignant about the way he seems to wait and see what Legolas thinks. And even though his father helped him with the crest, he’s been left to fend for himself with the more practical parts.
“Legolas could not imagine what it would be like to be drawn inexorably away from the woods.” *sob* This chapter is just full of sad little moments. Maybe I’ll just pretend that I don’t know what the future holds for Legolas…
LOL at Amdir. I get the impression that his presence usually signifies chaos. He’s so *cute*, though! I thought I’d feel annoyed at Turgon’s parents but I don’t, really. I mean, his father helped him a little and seems to have some concept of Turgon’s work being important, he just gets carried away when inspiration strikes. And his mother comes across as quite loving towards her children, just not quite on the same planet as everyone else. I wouldn’t say that they shouldn’t have children, they just need someone to show them that discipline is necessary. I can see why Thranduil and Ithilden always appear more frustrated than angry with them. The worst thing is that Turgon appears to have no interest in his ‘homework’ generally, but here it’s painfully obvious that he’s actually trying to do it but no one could get anything done in such bedlam.
“I am sure you will be pleased to hear that I am going to help you finish your arrows tonight, while everyone else goes to the boring old feast.” I’m feeling quite sorry for Elladan and Elrohir at having to sit through a feast in their honour. It seems like the last thing they’d want to do, especially if it involves the usual music and dancing. But who knows, maybe it’ll be good for them. And I think I see one of your potential problems. Legolas and the twins didn’t meet until he went to Imladris, right? Oh well, Thranduil might succeed at keeping them apart and if not we can just ignore things as you wish! Whatever about Legolas, it’d be great to see Eilian meet Elrond’s sons. He’s likely to get very suspicious if he realises that he’s being kept away from them. Plus Thranduil’s sons never end up doing what he intended them to do!
Who knew Eilian would be perfectly happy to stay in his own realm?! I think there’s a little bit of his father in him there, thinking that there’s nowhere better than Mirkwood - spiders, Orcs and all! And he *did* win the feathers in a bet ;-)
This story appears to have taken a different path than where it seemed to be headed. But I do like surprises! I’m intrigued now and am looking forward to more. :-)
Author's reply
All right. I won't worry about people getting tired. It just seemed to me I've written so much that folks might get bored! :-)
Any sane bad guy in Esgaroth would just tie himself up and present himself to Ithilden as a prisoner. It would save him a lot of pain and aggravation. And you're right about Galivion! Poor guy. Thranduil and Ithilden in combination would be just too much for anyone except possibly Galadriel. (Now that's something I'd like to see)
I thought that Mithrandir might be Thranduil's strongest ally from elsewhere in Middle-earth. Who else does he have really? But Mithrandir seems to treat the Elvenking as a friend in The Hobbit and he and Aragorn take Gollum to Thranduil. So I think there must have been a certain amount of trust there. I hae to admit I did enjoy producing the twins. :-) That note in HoMe was very welcome.
That's a good connection to Elrond in "The Tide of Times." That takes place in about 20 years. In this story, Celebrian has just left and they watched her suffer for a year. That must have been unbelievably disturbing. I figure Mithrandir found them (he was looking for them at Elrond's behest) and told them he needed them to protect him. Ha! I like your analysis of them relying on one another and being able to leave home. Actually, Thranduil's sons could go after Orcs in their own backyard. That doesn't normally seem like an advantage, but maybe it was in this case. Elladan and Elrohir will be around for a little while. I'm still treading carefully in showing them. It's tricky to remember that they're noble and yet at the same time show their rage.
I do think that Thranduil is a little panicked. He'll have to see how his sons do with the twins and then maybe confront some of his own feelings too. We'll see.
I'd say that Turgon's parents are VERY impractical. If he'd been raised in safer times, he might have been okay, but the danger needs to be dealt with practically.
Sigh. I was very disappointed that I had tied myself down in "Question of Duty." Sometimes I curse the fact that I have these stories set later. And shoot! I meant to give you credit for the wager idea! Thank you. It struck me as just right.
sofia
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Nice Chapter. The part with Mithrandir and Elrohir and Elladan-- it was a surprise. But a good one. i felt bad for Turgon when they all left and he was stuck making arrows all by himself. more soon please. With a cherry on top, too.
-sofia
Author's reply
I thought the visitors might be a surprise. :-) Especially the twins. I had Mithrandir show up in "Tide of Times," but I never thought I'd get the twins to Mirkwood until I read that bit in HoMe.
I felt bad for Turgon too. There's such potential wasted there. I think Namo was kind to him in the Halls of Mandos and he and Legolas met again in Valinor. That thought makes me smile.
I might be a little slow on the next chapter. It's election day and I have to go to another meeting tonight too, so I won't get started for a while. And I have to work, darn it! What is my boss thinking? Where are his priorities?
White Wolf
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
It was very interesting getting a glimpse into Turgon's home. Having his type of daredevil personality combined with that kind of home life is a recipe for exactly what happened to him in the end.
It was also interesting to see the twins in less than a happy-go-lucky scenario, which is how most writers portray them (often even me!)
Author's reply
I knew I wanted to write about Turgon's home in this story, but I really had to think about it. What kind of parents would he have to produce him and yet be believable as elves? I thought this kind of abstracted absorption in their own lives might be possible. And it is a bad situation, as you say.
I'm having a hard time writing about the twins in this situation. It was part of their lives but in order to write about it, I have to forget almost everything in fanfiction. And Tolkien doesn't give us a whole lot else!
Lera
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Ithilden is someone I would want on my side definitely. I like seeing into Thranduil's thoughts on how proud he is of his capeable threatening looking son.
I'm excited to see Mithrandir and Elladan and Elrohir introduced here. Especially the twins. It will be so interesting to see them at this point in their lives. Most stories show them only as prankster loving clowns raising cane everywhere they go. Being twins they probably weren't a piece of cake to raise, but I don't get prankster loving clowns raising cane from Tolkien at all.
Turgon made me sad. His parents aren't necisarily bad elves, but they should never have been allowed to have children. Ever.
As always, very interesting chapter, can't wait for the camping trip. I love seeing anything to do with the training these guys go through. Had I been an elf, I would have wanted to be a boy, because it sounds so fun. Although, I can't forget what its ultimate purpose is...to become warriors. Scary.
I found it very funny that Eilien, the wild excitement craving one, is actually a hombody! Oh, Legolas, you have no idea where your travels will take you. It's sad he enjoys the trees now and can't imagine really wanting to leave them. I'm also imagining Thranduil and the rest of his family's reaction to the news of him joining the Fellowship. I would REALLY like to see the reaction, considering no matter how big he gets and no matter how competant a warrior he becomes, he'll always be the youngest, the one always to be protected if they can help it. Ciao.
Author's reply
Let me put it this way: I definitely *don't* want Ithilden as an enemy. He'd be scary. He's determined and capable and, I think, fairly ruthless in a controlled kind of way.
I was excited to be able to introduce the twins too. I'm still feeling my way along in writing them. I want them to come across as the 2500 year old elf lords they are -- brave, well-educated, intelligent, devoted, and, at the moment, suffering. But it's hard to convey the almost magical feel of them that one gets in Tolkien, where even Legolas seems half in awe of them.
I fell bad for Turgon too. He and the others will have some interesting times on the camping trip. :-) I like writing about the details of their training too. It makes it seem more real to me. They weren't born the outstanding warriors that they are as adults. They had to learn.
I'll have to see what I can do about showing Legolas's family while he's on the quest. Someday.
Ciao!
Bodkin
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Let me bore you with some more thoughts. (Ha, you cannot resist!)
Eilian was held together in his crisis, I think, by two things - one was the discipline of being part of a patrol (although he almost lost it) and the other was Legolas. His little brother needed the empathetic love that only Eilian could provide and because of that he couldn't let himself fly apart.
Ithilden used duty - and guilt. I feel very sorry for Ithilden in the pre-Alfirin days, because he does seem emotionally starved and very lonely.
I think the twins must have come to terms with what they did after the initial burst of their damaging quest for vengeance, because heartless killing machine twins would not have been able to be brothers to Estel - and the process of healing must have taken place over a long period of years or they would not have been emotionally able to present him with the security and love he needed.
Author's reply
Actually, I can't resist! :-)
I like your analysis of Eilian and Ithilden. They were both really supported by the love of their family and the routine of their duty, as you say. They could stay home (more or less) and still fight against Orcs. But the twins are in a slightly different situation. Orcs don't come into Imladris, thank Eru. I'm still trying to decide how obsessed with killing the twins are, actually. That line in home is kind of ambiguous. They were obsessed enough that they "never ceased" warring with Orcs. But that could be done in a more or less reasoned way. I think they're still working out their feelings on this. Their mother's departure is very recent and they spent a year watching her suffer.
Duchess
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Oh the poor twins! I didn't expect you to bring them and Gandalf into this. What a wonderful surprise to see them, even though the twins are grieving.
What will Eilian's reaction be when he finds out about their grief? Thranduil can't protect his sons like he would wish, I'm sure. He may be able to keep Legolas from finding out right now, but I can't imagine Eilian won't.
I'm feeling sorrier and sorrier for Turgon. His parents are a menace! *frowning with disapproval*
Author's reply
I thought that the twins might be a surprise. :-)
I've shown Gandalf visiting Thranduil before but it never even occurred to me to show the twins until I read that note in HoMe. Then I started trying to figure out how to get them to Thranduil.
If Thranduil thinks for only a minute, he'll know that there's no way he's going to be able to keep Eilian away for any length of time. But he may be able to whisk Legolas out of the way. We'll see how it goes.
Poor Turgon. I think his parents love him. They're just too absorbed in their own affairs to pay attention to him and the result is disaster.
thechevin
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
This was such a sad chapter for almost everyone involved
the raw pain of the twins bringing back painful memories for Thranduil who immediately goes into protective Adar mode, I do not think Eilian would like how he has been manipulated if he finds out of course even if he enjoys his time with Legolas
as for this brief glimpse into Turgon's home life well it made me feel as sorry for him as Anneal and Legolas no wonder he acts as he does his parents have a lot to answer for
It was nice to end with the scene with Eilian and Legolas so that was where the feathers came from I do not think Ada would approve but he may think betting preferable to the dredging up of painful memories for his second son
I smiled at Eilian and Thranduil when the king summoned his son, a guilty conscince perhaps?
A real treat to read thank you
Judy
Author's reply
Now that you mention it, you're right. There is sadness all the way around here. Thranduil at least tries to protect his children, while I think that Turgon's family is much more neglectful. I felt bad for him.
Legolas has lost his mother, but he has strong support from his family. The twins could have that too and could be providing it for Arwen and their father. Poor things.
Brazgirl
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
It is very hard to grow tired of this! Your story is so well written so close to reality... Take for example that conversation bewteen Eilian and Legolas. It was so real like something I could talk to my brother! And how about the little brother coming into the room? Hahahah that took me some laughing reading it.
Thranduil was very wise. Wise indeed. First I thought he was being harsh with Eilian but then he really made a wise decision. Poor king he suffered to imagine how Elrond is suffering because it was like he did some years ago. Fab chapter!!!
Author's reply
You are making me feel very good, Brazgirl. If these people seem real to you, then I'm happy!
In this chapter, I was interested in the different families -- Thranduil's, Turgon's, the twins with one another. You can see them supporting one another or not and you can also see how much they need one another. At least, I hope you can. Thranduil is a very concerned father, I think.
elliska
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Daw, we'll never get tired of these stories! This will have to be short but--I was so suprised to see Mithrandir and the twins. I am very much looking forward to seeing how they will complicate things. And Thranduil and Ithilden's reaction to how to deal with the men was great. Poor Men. They don't stand a chance. But Legolas and his friends and this camping trip...I smell trouble. I'm very glad you have a new story going. I need the distraction right now. May it be very long. :)
Author's reply
I thought the visitors might surprise readers a little. *I* was surprised to see the twins mentioned in HoMe at this point in time and then I immediately started thinking about how to get them to Thranduil and what would happen if they did turn up at the king's stronghold. Actually, I find the Tale of Years very generative for plot ideas.
I liked the image of Ithilden marching off to Esgaroth to clear matters up. A bad guy with any sense would surrender immediately just to save himself the trouble.
Ah yes. The camping trip. Coming soon to a chapter near you. :-)
Jay of Lasgalen
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
The twins are here!! (*cough*. Sorry about that - I got carried away.) And kudos to Thranduil for getting them right! I couldn't remeber the date of this story, but guessed that the strain Thranduil could see was because of Celebrían - and of course it will bring back many memories for all of them. I somehow think he won't have much success in keeping Eilian away from E2 (E3 - can you imagine it?!)
Turgon's home life was rather sad - a spoilt little brother, ineffectual mother, snappy father. It explains a lot about him.
I hope the camping trip goes well, and that the mysterious sniper doesn't cause trouble!
Jay
Author's reply
I thought of you when I was writing this, Jay. :-) I was very excited when I found the reference to the twins in HoMe in the time period I was looking at for this story. All I had to do then was get them to Thranduil, and I decided Mithrandir would take care of that. He promised Elrond to keep an eye out for them and he was on his way to Thranduil anyway. I think that once Legolas is out of the palace, Eilian is going to be looking for some company!
In planning this story, I decided it would be interesting to see inside Turgon's cottage. What made him the way he was? But writing about it made me sad too. His parents are just so busy with their own thoughts and interests that they don't even see him sometimes. His father will paint arrows with him and approve of Turgon's individualistic aesthetic, and that's good. But then he gets an idea for a poem and that's the end of the arrow making.
The camping trip. Check. It's on my list. The sniper. Check. Also on my list. Together? Hm. We'll see!
Bodkin
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
I don't think you have to worry about people not wanting to read what you write - I think the chances of that are non-existant. You catch the whole Mirkwood / family / outside dangers so wonderfully - and there isn't a hint of cardboard anywhere.
Poor Sons of Elrond. Ithilden and Eilian barely coped with their mother's death in the middle of all the love and support of their family and friends - and Elladan and Elrohir have deliberately cut themselves off from that. I think that's why they didn't ever really recover - they always seem to have been a little cut off from others after that. Partly because they were twins, probably, so that they used each other for support - but that also meant that they didn't have anyone to draw them out from the spiral of grief into which they sank and wallowed. They also failed to provide support for Elrond - he could not help them through their sufferinng, so consequently he found it difficult to move on - he lost all his children here, too, because Arwen seemed to spend most of her time with Galadriel (understandably, but that was no help to poor Elrond). Thranduil should look at the twins and feel thankful that he and his sons have survived and are learning to move on from the trauma with each other's support. The different level of healing is probably what makes it possible for both Ithilden and Eilian to marry and have their own families, while Elladan and Elrohir remain frozen in their vengeful mindset, dependent on each other. (Not counting Legolas here, because as a small child, his responses and needs had to be dealt with differently. At least he could cry and demand attention.)
(On pranks - the twins probably did get in more trouble as elflings - purely because there were two of them - and twice the children is four times the trouble, but they wouldn't have been the Coco the Clowns of Middle Earth as adults.)
I love Mithrandir's concern for them - I hope he brought them along for a dose of Thranduil-parenting to talk to others who have endured the same kind of loss. Although it would be hard on Eilian, I think he might be the one who would be of most help to them now. (And damn pre-written stories for getting in the way of things it would be good to do now!)
Turgon, Turgon, Turgon. The poor elfling - how could he possibly develop into a reasonable and responsible Wood Elf warrior with butterflies like his parents. They are not ill-natured - they are just insensitive and incompetent. Although I'll bet that his adar would be appalled to be thought of as insensitive - he's just such an artist, he needs his space. Poor Turgon scratches by with the help offered by those around him, but nobody really takes responsibility for him. His adar might have helped him with the artistic part of arrow-making - but even Mr Please-I-must-have-total-quiet is a Wood Elf - he must have learned how to make arrows for the hunt in the days before he aspired to be the Daeron-of-the-Woods. He could have done more to help had he wanted to. (And Amdir changed little over the years!)
And Legolas finds arrow-making even more important than badgering to go to the feast and meet Mithrandir and the SoE. He is such a responsible elfling! Mind you, had he not discovered that Eilian had also been excluded from the feast and that he hadn't met them either, he might not have been so willing. I like thinking of reckless adventurous Eilian as too much of a homeboy to want to leave the forest. He's just full of contradictions.
Why do I suspect that this innocent-elfling camp in the woods could have unexpected repercussions - involving Men? I cannot imagine.
Author's reply
Thank you, Bodkin. Your analysis of the twins is acute, I think. Their tie to one another does seem to make it possible for them to isolate themselves from others, so there is no one to help them. I'm feeling my way along in portraying them. I don't want them to be demented Orc killers, but I do want them to be adult warriors who never cease hunting the creatures. Perhaps it's possible for them to achieve a certain amount of balance within that. Still, as I was writing this I was thinking about how hard that year before she sailed must have been. They saw her suffering daily for a long time.
I also thought that same thing about Legolas when I was writing "Paths of Memory." His grief was so total because he had no perspective on loss -- his mother was gone; his world had ended. But he could cry and say what he felt, which made it easier for everyone to respond to him that they did to, say, Ithilden. Eilian seems to me to be the son of Thranduil who is most akin to the twins in his reaction. I think they need to spend some time together!
I felt so bad for Turgon as I was writing this. His parents aren't bad people but they sure are bad parents. I kept trying to imagine what they would be like and drew on the inadequate parents I've seen over the years, including me at my worst moments. But it made me sad.
It seemed to me that Eilian was someone who loves excitement but I wasn't sure that meant he was curious about other places. He's a wood elf through and through, his mother's child.
You think the elflings are going to be doing more than toasting marshmallows in the woods? Why Bodkin! I think you might be right!
Melissa
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
I could never grow tired of your stories. Ithilden and Eilian and your Thranduil are as real to me as Legolas, and I have a hard time reading other stories without them.
Author's reply
Thank you so much, Melissa. They've become real to me too. I notice how comfortable I am with them when I introduce new characters like the twins (new for me to write about that is). I have to figure out how to portray them more or less from scratch, whereas Legolas's family comes easily now.
Rose Sared
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
I just love all the detail you put into these tales - I swear I should be able to make and fletch an arrow just from your descriptions . LOL.
How nice to have the twins and Mithrander in house - even thought the circumstances are so sad.
Much enjoyed!
Rose
Author's reply
It's funny what we writers choose to describe in detail when you think about it. I don't do a lot of description usually. Rooms, clothes, landscape -- once is a while something strikes me as important enough to describe but I usually just don't care. But I do like to know what Legolas is actually doing with his time. This must have been important stuff to him. And besides, it was fun to look up!
I got all excited when I found that reference to the twins in the time frame I was interested in. And Mithrandir has always seemed to me to be the one among the Wise whom Thranduil would be most likely to trust. But what a terrible time for Elladan and Elrohir.
finafyr
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
This weekend I read every one of your stories in order..I found them a delight.. and I wanted to let you know that I think that you have such a delightful feel of the world of Middle Earth that Tolkien so delightfully as he said "rediscovered". I have had this wonderful Love affair going with Middle earth for over 30 years.. thank you for so filling in the blanks so. I think delightfully. the Professor I think would have enjoyed them also.. after all that was the whole reason that he started writing, as he said, and Though I do not make an exact quote I think it is close enough...(Smile)"If we cannot find the sort of stories that we like than we will write them for ourselves". I find that I crave reading more.. and the only stories I read are the ones that capture of flavor of my favorite place.. as your writing has done so well...
Thank you
Author's reply
Oh my. Thank you. The thought of reading all those stories at once makes me what to lie down! But I have to say that you have given me *delight* by telling me you did it.
You are so right about Tolkien, I think. This fandom is such a rich one to write in because he left us with this complicated world with all kinds of nooks and crannies to explore on our own. And I am immensely flattered to have pleased a true Tolkien fan.
The Karenator
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Okay, I just reread this chapter and I had another thought or two. Really, I'm sorry.
I forgot that Turgon's adar helped him with the designs on his arrows. I'm mildly less annoyed with him. The artistic portion was his gig, I guess. Still...
And I'm rethinking my stand on Thranduil shielding his sons from the twins. I really do understand where he is in all this, but Mithrandir rarely does anything that does not have a purpose. I wonder if it's his hope that the twins, seeing that Thranduil's sons have managed to balance their grief, will help to lessen the twins almost obsession with revenge. He did say that Elrond wanted them home. Obviously, they're not there. They are not working through this with family, but are working off each other in rage and vengeance. Not healthy. I think it's a parent's first reaction to try and shelter their children, but that's not always the best course of action. Experience is often the best teacher. And like I said in my other windy review, the five young elves all share a common bond of grief. Now that I think about it, I think the twins would benefit from getting to know the Thranduilions. And the king's sons would benefit from sharing their experience. Hm.m.m. I'm still thinking...
I'm done this time. Really...I am....
Author's reply
This is interesting stuff, Karen. I did think that Turgon's father would encourage him to express himself in the way best suited to him and would accept him as he was. And that's good. But Turgon needs attention and discipline too and so does his little brother.
Mithrandir brought the twins with him partly to keep them from hunting Orcs on their own. He asked them to protect him on his journey, which is almost laughable. We'll see how the sons get along and what they have to learn from one another.
And oh yeah apologize for reviewing again because authors just hate that. :-)
The Karenator
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
OH! How unexpected. The twins and Mithrandir have come to the Woodland Realm. I'm like Legolas and want to meet them and hear all about Glorfindel and balrogs and whatever they might like to talk about. Shoot! They don't even have to say anything. I'll just look.
You also took quite an emotional turn. My heart sank with Thranduil's when he had fleeting images of Lorellin's last moments. I can imagine that the grief is still so new to the twins that it is nearly contagious. No one can blame Thranduil from wanting to shield his sons from being reminded of the loss they suffered. That scene between Thranduil and Mithrandir was very well done. It's conveyed a lot of emotion and told us a lot about the fragile emotional state the Thranduilions are still in.
Poor Turgon. I can't help but feel for the little scamp. The odds were against him from the beginning. He's really on his own. Legolas and Annael are the only constant support he seems to get and unfortunately, it's often misguided. His adar strikes me as a rather self-absorbed sort. The artsy-fartsy type. Nothing comes between him and his art. Kind of makes me want to slap him upside his head. Not even War and Peace was so important as to not notice your child. I realize he's no warrior and fletching arrows would probably be like asking him to sew a bridal gown, but he could have tried or found someone to help his son who did know what he was doing. Show an interest, you, Elf, you. Geez, I'm on a rant. Sorry.
Eilian helping Legolas was nice. And they never even knew their adar's manipulation of the whole thing. It seems a reasonable way to deal with the whole thing. The arrows had to be done. Thranduil didn't want Legolas or Eilian alone or near the twins in their current state of grief. At least Thranduil knows he can't keep Ithilden and Eilian away from the Elrondions, but he can try to protect the vulnerable as best he can.
I really like where this seems to be going. You know how I like to poke around in characters' heads and this is such a good start into looking at the common bond shared by the sons of Elrond and Thranduil. And we even get to see the places in Thranduil's heart that he never reveals to anyone...but us.
I look forward to more. Great chapter, daw.
Oh! And the men.... Inquiring minds want to know about them too. I believe Ithilden could find them with one hand tied behind his back too.
Karen
Author's reply
I was all excited when I found that bit in HoMe about the twins being in the battle against the Balchoth. They're challenging to write about though because there's so much fanfic about them. I have no intention of writing a prank fest and these guys just lost their mother in a horrible way that involved watching her suffer for a year. In some ways, a quick death would have been easier. I see the twins as sort of magical -- the Sons of Elrond. But how do I convey that? And would they look magical to another elf like Thranduil? So I'm still figuring them out.
If I were Thranduil or his sons, the idea of Lorellin's terror and pain would send me into a frenzy. I can barely stand to write even the sentence I just wrote.
I've spent some time in the last week or so trying to figure out Turgon's parents, and I'm afraid I decided that they were like me in my worst moments of selfishly desiring to be able to concentrate on my own interests. Only they're like that all the time. Once I concluded that, it was easier to see what was going wrong. Poor Turgon.
If the men of Esgaroth saw Ithilden coming, I assume they'd surrender just to save themselves a lot of pain. :-)
French Pony
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Uh-huh. Yeah, maybe I'll get tired of these stories. And maybe the sun and the moon will rise in the north hills, and I'll quit ethnomusicology and take up accounting.
So Turgon's father is a minstrel. Hmm. Interesting. He reminds me a little of Robert Schumann, I think, or what Robert would have been like if he hadn't been married to Clara or friends with Brahms. That need to work in absolute silence and such utter self-absorbedness, that's so Schumann. And look what happened to him. He ended his days in an insane asylum. Of course, Turgon's mother is such a mousy little thing that she's no help at all in that family. Nothing like Clara Schumann, and more's the pity. I wonder what Penntalion thinks about all this. He can't have not noticed that something is up with Turgon. Right now, it seems like the only ones who notice are Legolas and Annael, who are neither one of them old enough or sophisticated enough to know what to do about it.
And here come the Sons of Elrond, broadcasting fresh grief for all the world to see. Mithrandir has brought them to Mirkwood for a purpose, but it's hard to tell if it's a Bad Idea or if Thranduil is just thwarting that purpose for purposes of his own. There is a theory that companions help grief, especially companions who have suffered a similar loss -- it leads to support groups. Clearly, Thranduil does not subscribe to this theory. I have to wonder just who he is protecting here. He seems to be the one most upset by Celebrian's misfortune (which he hasn't heard of before -- communication on the eastern side of the mountains is not very good, I guess), and I wonder if he isn't projecting just a little when he thinks of Eilian and Legolas. Sometimes, kids who have lost parents just blossom when they meet other kids who have lost parents. And sometimes not. It's a tough call, and I guess Thranduil is the one who knows his boys best.
There goes Turgon with his riot of colors again! He hasn't changed a bit from that little kid with the crayons. He shouldn't have been a warrior. He would have been the Jackson Pollack of Middle Earth. No one has any idea what it is, but it is beautiful!
Legolas could not imagine what it would be like to be drawn inexorably away from the woods.
Hint, hint. Hint, hint.
He was curious about the far-away places of Middle-earth that he had read about with his tutor, and he hoped to see them someday, but he would never want to live where there were no trees.
You just keep telling yourself that, Legolas. . .
I snickered at the idea of punishing Eilian by making him draw up a chart of Elrond's family ties. They're really frightening if you look at them long enough and realize that he is related to every single character in the Silmarillion. Galadriel isn't just his mother-in-law; she's his first cousin thrice removed. As I keep telling my sister, the running gag of the Silmarillion is that everyone is related to everyone else in the end.
Author's reply
Thank you, French Pony. And don't give up ethnomusicology! Someone has to do that because ... well, just because!
When I planned this story, I thought I would take little closer look at Turgon's family and then I had to figure them out a little. Like what did his father do? What were his parents like to make him the way he was? And I decided they were like me on my worst days when I just wanted to think about my own stuff and wanted my kid to go away for a while. Only they would be like that all the time. They're not bad exactly, and his father can do stuff like paint a creative arrow (I thought of the drawing too--Turgon's aesthetic is different from that of most elves, I think), but they're sure not good for their kids who need discipline and attention. And Legolas and Annael are just not equipped to do anything about this. But most people would hesitate to interfere, I think.
I thought that word of events would travel slowly. They have to travel with travelers after all, unless maybe birds are used as messengers as they are in The Hobbit. And Celebrian would have just recently sailed. We'll see how the sons get on together. I had a problem because in "Question of Duty" (and curses that I ever wrote that story), I have Legolas meeting the twins for the first time.
Nilmandra
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
This look at Turgon's family was very telling - instead of feeling sorry for Legolas for having such a friend, I definitely felt for Turgon for having a dysfunctional family. He really needs some appropriate attention.
I am still distrubed by Thranduil, but I'm going to withhold judgment and wait and see how this turns out.
Author's reply
I felt bad for Turgon too. His parents have occasional good moments -- his father paints the arrows with him and makes it clear that if Turgon wants wild colors, that's okay too. But they're too absorbed in their own concerns to be good parents.
Thranduil is disturbed by the twins. Their new and rather raw emotion upsets his balance and he fears it will upset the balance of his sons. One of the themes of this story is Thranduil's relations with others, especially men, so we'll see how all this works out.
Manderly
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
What a contrast you have painted of Legolas' family and Turgon's family. Thranduil, intimidating as he may be, is a wonderful adar and goes to great lengths to protect his children. His little scheme of having Eilian help Legolas with the arrows to draw them away from the twins (and their contagious grief and anguish) is very touching and heart-warming. It is unfortunate that Eilian doesn't know what Thranduil has done - it may lessen his apprehension of his father and warm their relationship a little more.
As much as Turgon is a child from Mordor at times, I really do feel for him here. His father is too self-absorbed to be a good father and his mother is, as you have put it, vague. What a perfect word to describe her. I suspect Turgon gets into the trouble that he does as a way to get his parents' attention, but unfortunately his parents are often on another planet. And doubly unfortunate, parents like that are rampant today. Turgon really is a tragic figure when one thinks about it.
This chapter for some reason really touched me. I will remember to say something loving to my daughters before I go to bed tonight.
Author's reply
You know, you're right. Eilian so frequently misreads his father's intentions, and I think that Thranduil is one of those people who has no intention of explaining himself. I felt for Turgon as I was writing this too. I don't see his parents as bad people, but I do see them as bad parents. They are absorbed in their own concerns and their sons suffer for it. Thranduil is tempted to be that way because he's so busy, but he struggles to make time for Legolas in particular. Of course, his task is made easier by the presence of the older brothers who can stand in for him and whose company Legolas enjoys.
Give your daughters a kiss for me. If my son were here, I'd be bugging him by talking to him!
esamen
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
“Mithrandir, and Elladan and Elrohir, the sons of Master Elrond of Imladris,” he announced. And to Thranduil’s surprise, Mithrandir advanced into the room, flanked on either side by the tall, raven-haired twin sons of the lord of Imladris.
Oh, I was so happy to see these names! Just thrilled! You do Gandalf so well. I have missed him. I also very much like how you are weaving the tale of the battle and the twins into your story line. This is great, fresh material woven into the story of the quest. Fantastic choice.
I can't wait for your next chapter. You are an absolute marvel. I love this collection of stories and I treasure every one. Thanks again . . .
Author's reply
I surprised myself by writing about the twins! I find them hard to characterize as I see them in my head. These are not merry pranksters. They are 2500 year old elven warriors who are gallant and brave and suffering. And yet, they're also the well-bred, well-educated sons of Elrond, who stand out in a crowd in ROTK. It's hard to catch that, given all the fanfic about them. I was excited to see their names in the account of that battle!
meckinock
· 31 October 2004
· Chapter 1: Arrows Fly
A couple of things about your stories never cease to amaze me, Daw. The first is how accurately you can get inside the head of a 12-year-old boy. I know, you had one yourself once, but that was quite a while ago (sometime you'll have to let us know how much of him is in your Legolas)! The scenes from Legolas's point of view just crack me up - the stuff that runs through his head is so dead-on and yet subtle; little things like him eagerly but surreptitiously listening to Ithilden's report of the attack because he knows as soon as the grown-ups remember he's there he'll be kicked out. His relentless gleaning of information and analyzing it to figure out what's really going is evidence of a keen mind, and yet in typical adolescent fashion he's mainly interested in how everything affects him personally!
The second thing that strikes me is how you manage to impart such a physical sense of your characters without really going into that much detail in the way of physical description. Stephen King talks about this in his book, "On Writing." He says if he wants to read descriptions of clothes, he'll go look at the J. Crew catalogue. If I tell you that Carrie White is a high school outcast with a bad complexion and a fashion-victim wardrobe, I think you can do the rest, can't you? I don't need to give you a pimple-by-pimple, skirt-by-skirt rundown.
Well, Daw, you don't even give us that much description of Ithilden but I don't need it. All I need is two words: Ithilden strode. This guy displaces a LOT of air when he walks into a room. I'm having trouble imagining Ithilden walking on top of snow. I'm having trouble imagining him walking silently (or Thranduil, either). Dang, that is one substantial elf. Makes it all the more fun when he gets discombobulated over Alfirin.
It's interesting to watch Legolas learning about Men, knowing that the lessons he learns now will be important to him later in life. It must seem very strange to a young elf to learn that a Man his age would have lived nearly half his life!
I'm sorry I'll have to wait a few weeks to get caught up on this story- it'll probably be done by then!
Author's reply
I do borrow moments from my son's childhood, have Legolas do things that he did. But here's a scary thought, Meckinock. The thing I most consciously and consistently borrow is Turgon. My son had two best friends and Legolas's are very much like them. I heaved a huge sigh of relief when the "Turgon" friend was not admitted to the same university my son was because they had been planning to room together.
I love writing from Legolas's point of view. The most ridiculous things can seem perfectly acceptable when he thinks them. At the moment, Ithilden is annoying him and he's trying to stay out of trouble but look for moments to let his brother know what a jerk he's being from Legolas's pov.
You make me feel better about not describing much. I've been reading a P. D. James mystery. I think she is a wonderful writer and I was noticing how much more description she does than I do.
And I love your reaction to Ithilden. Yes! He does "displace a lot of air." That's perfect!
Have fun in Boston. I like the town.
Dot
· 31 October 2004
· Chapter 1: Arrows Fly
Hey there. I knew I’d miss something! I’m just back from a wonderful – but tiring! - week in London and this has done wonders to combat the depression at having to come home…:-)
I just loved the image of Thranduil and Legolas making arrows together. I particularly liked the fact that Thranduil seemed to be involved in it, rather than just observing. And Legolas is so serious about it! I had to laugh at him thinking of it as a “pleasant and absorbing” task. That kind of thing would drive me nuts.
Eilian has been injured again? Oh well, at least it’s always a good way to have him home for a while ;-) I don’t know *why* Thranduil would think Eilian would have discarded the crutches without being told he could… I kind of felt bad for Legolas there for a moment when he nearly had to choose between his brother and father. It probably didn’t even dawn on Eilian that he could be interrupting quality time. Luckily Thranduil seems to have spotted Legolas’ dilemma and is willing to share his time with both sons. Where’d Eilian get peacock feathers anyway? Won them in a wager, I’d say …!
LOL at Legolas trying not to look too interested in what Ithilden was saying – OF COURSE Thranduil copped on to what he was doing!! Ithilden must be very frustrated if it didn’t occur to him not to just stride into the sitting room and rant about what had happened. I’m intrigued by this single Man who would actually shoot at a raft full of Elves with no apparent intention of robbing them. I can understand Esgaroth’s warriors being needed elsewhere other than patrolling the river, although as of yet I don’t see any reason at all why Ithilden should have to send aid to them. Perhaps he should just send extra warriors whenever a trip for supplies needs to be made. But then, life is never that simple. At least not in your world!
Legolas is right, Thranduil never does speak about Dagorlad! I suppose they learned enough about that particular battle and everything involved in it in their lessons but I wonder if he ever talks to his sons about their grandparents? Legolas seems to be quite good at looking at history very objectively – although I doubt he shared his little revelation with his father! Btw, Legolas’ reaction when he thought the attackers were Orcs just so *sad*. Obviously the fear of them that he felt as a child when they killed his mother has never really left him. In some ways they’ll probably only leave his nightmares when he does eventually get to confront them and fight them for real.
Ah, Turgon makes an appearance again. How annoying for Legolas that Turgon already knows about the raft when he had managed not to let slip anything about it! You know, I think Turgon might have a bit more respect for a warrior’s life and all it entails if any of his family actually were warriors themselves. I know it’s terrible, but at least Legolas has learned not to be excited by the thought of wounded warriors. Tell me that Turgon isn’t going to inform any of the masters that experience would be better training for them that what they’re doing! Because I wouldn’t put it past him…
Well, that lesson with Penntalion was very, uh, informative! I can tell you did a lot of research! I’m afraid I probably shared Turgon’s assertion that “An arrow is an arrow”. But now I know better! Oh, and Thranduil might actually be quite pleased to be asked what he thinks.
You made me laugh with Ithilden and Alfirin! It seems Legolas has begun to realise the reason behind his brother’s sudden fondness for walking him home. It was just too funny the way they are all so painfully polite and then stand looking at each other in awkward silence. And when they finally head for home Ithilden’s mind is clearly far from his little brother! You just HAVE to show Alfirin and Ithilden getting over their awkwardness sometime! The idea that children of Men are part of their army seems to be playing on Legolas’ mind a little. That fact together with the realisation that there were arrows that could even pierce armour must be a rather scary thought.
I get the impression that while Thranduil isn’t particularly against Men, he’d rather just not to have anything to do with them if at all possible. It’ll be interesting to see how their relationship develops. In later stories he still seems fairly dismissive of them and I seem to recall him saying something about Men being fools on at least one occasion. But on the plus side, at least they’re not Dwarves! So another trip to Esgaroth is in order? Interesting. And unlikely to be uneventful, methinks. At least we know that Legolas doesn’t end up there if that trip for his birthday is his first time there. Unless I’m getting confused – which is very possible! But there’s always Eilian… And Turgon is SO going to land them all in trouble at some stage!!
Great start! :-)
Author's reply
Was the London trip a vacation, Dot? I've been to London twice and enjoyed it both times. For an English lit major, it's a great place.
I couldn't be attentive enough to detail to enjoy making arrows either. But it seemed to me to be exactly the kind of thing Legolas would like, especially if he did it with Thranduil. He's making his arrows beautiful too, which seemed Elven to me. I got carried away with the research on arrows, I think, but I told myself that including all that stuff would increase verisimilitude!
Oh! I love your idea of Eilian winning the feathers. I think I have to use it. :-) Another reviewer suggested that when Thranduil asked him whether he was allowed to walk without his crutches, he may have answered politely enough, but what he was thinking was, "No, Adar, and I am flaunting my disobedience in front of you." LOL
When I wrote that bit about Legolas's tension over the possible presence of Orcs, I was thinking about how they keep him away from any talk of such things. I wanted to show that that's not entirely silly on their part. He does react to it and I'm sure that Thranduil can tell.
I'm thinking about visiting Turgon's house in the next chapter, but I'd have to work out his parents a little more in my head. Still, it would be fun to see his home.
I'd like to show Ithilden and Alfirin getting more comfortable together and I will probably try to do so one of these days. The problem is I have a very narrow window in which to do it. In "See the Stars," he still thinks she might like Penntalion and Eilian advises him to court her. In "Prodigal Sons," which is set only a few months later, they're betrothed. So I'd have to put it in between there. I had intended to do it with this story but then I decided I wanted it set in 2510 so I could take advantage of the Balchoth stuff. Sometimes I feel terribly limited by my own stories, the visit to Esgaroth stuff being one example. In this story, I'm going to have to violate one thing I already established and pretend it didn't happen. It's just too hard to work around.
Hope your return to work isn't too much of shock, Dot. Thanks for the review.
Duchess
· 31 October 2004
· Chapter 1: Arrows Fly
A wonderful start to what is obviously going to be another very good story. I can't wait to see where you're going with this one. *vbg*
Author's reply
Glad you liked it, Duchess. It always takes me a while to get into gear with a new story, but I hope to have the various threads of this one unraveling very soon!