Bodkin
· 9 November 2004
· Chapter 4: Animals in the Forest
This popped up at just the right moment to stop my brain imploding.
The poor twins - this is really the first time that I've thought that they would be better off without each other (not in a something nasty happening, just not so exclusive). They are so self-absorbed in their misery, that they are not thinking of anyone else. Poor Elrond. Abandoned again.
They can't bear to stay near Rivendell - and yet there Thranduil and Ithilden are - working and living in the very environment that is redolent of Lorellin. Eilian, of course, pops off south most of the time - but, having confronted the memories of home is, I should say definitely better for them.
I wonder if Eilian will see how far he has come since his naneth died and how grief changes over time. He's still very much an orc-slayer, but he's not a beserker - and I don't think he has been since he realised that he had to come home for little Legolas. I also hope he has enough sense of self-preservation not to head off with or after the twins without express permission.
Twenty five warriors in the Eastern patrol - that's not many, even if they are elves, to keep on top of the orc explosion and make up for the reduced number of men available. I wonder if the Men have a bit of an inflated idea of the powers of elves - doubtless encouraged by Thranduil.
Galelas definitely improved with time. Probably once he was no longer living at home with his idiot parents worshipping his ghastly brother, his better qualities were able to emerge. And super-captain Eilian helped tremendously. I love Annael. He is just such an all-round gorgeous child. And Turgon hasn't created havoc yet - he's slipping - but there's still time. Sondil - definitely brave.
Can't wait to see what happens next.
Author's reply
The twins are interesting to consider. They do support one another, but if they are both feeling the same thing, and that thing is negative, then what does that support mean? They understand one another, yes. But how do they get out of it? I think time is part of the healing process and their mother has just sailed. They haven't been home since she left. I really think the question is how do they survive until they begin to regain their balance.
And who would ever have thought that having orcs in your own backyard would be better than having to leave home to hunt them? And yet, that's what seems to be the case. I am reminded of children evacuated from London during the blitz. Studies suggest that those who stayed with their parents felt more secure even though the situation was more dangerous. Thranduil's sons have been in a situation like that.
Annael is such a sweetie! Of the three friends, he has the most ideal parents, I think. They're both there; they're both wise; and they're both attentive. And he's just humming with happiness on this trip!
Susanlu
· 9 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
Hello everyone, hereby we present the fighting between Thranduil and Elrond's sons! (Cheers and applauds) Come on, which side you will chip in? What? You ask me? I will of course wager all my money that Eilian can beat the half-elves black and white all over, as long as he fights just one of them, not both at one time -_-b
I'm always interested in the relationship between Thranduil and Elrond, as well as their sons. It's mysterious that Elrond sent Legolas as the representative of Elves to attend the fellewship of the ring, not his own sons. Has he ever considered that someone (like Thranduil) would accused him as a selfish father? Or is Legolas really stronger so much than the twins? When Legolas talked about the twins in ROTK, it sound like he respects them but not very familiar with them. As for "who is the strongest", I've noticed the lines in canon: "(in Haunted Mountain)The company halted, and there was not a heart among them that did not quail, unless it were the heart of Legolas of the Elves, for whom the ghosts of Men have no terror. "Elladan and Elrohir were also in that company then, did they scare? Can we say Legolas is a better warrior than the twins by that? If Legolas can win the twins, there is no reason that Eilian will fail.^+++^
Gandalf seems likes a trader in human beings^o^, or a kidnaper, has especially interests in cute elflings in noble birth. And poor Legolas finally fall into his trap ^o^. I bet after the war of the ring, Gandalf sail west without meeting Thranduil again.
Author's reply
It turned out Eilian lost. He's 90 and the twins are 2500 years old, so I didn't think he stood a chance!
Why Legolas was chosen to be in the Fellowship is really a good question, I think, and it's one that there's not a good answer to. The real reason is probably that Tolkien was trying to link the trilogy to "The Hobbit," so he wanted the son of the Elvenking and the son of one of the Dwarves.
I loved your ovservation about how Legolas was unafraid. But I think that what Tolkien is saying is that *elves* in general are not afraid of Men's ghosts. I think that's why he uses the present tense verb "have," which implies an ongoing state for all Elves. If he had meant just Legolas, he would have said "had," which would limit the claim to just the situation he was describing.
If Gandalf were interested in my kid, I'd hide him away!
Jay of Lasgalen
· 9 November 2004
· Chapter 4: Animals in the Forest
What a pity that orcs attacked just now, so that Elladan and Elrohir learned of it. It was obvious that they would go after them - and I wouldn't be surprised if Eilian doesn't join them. His reaction when he learned about Celebrían shows how raw the grief still is for him as well. E3 hunting orcs together - at least one of them wil get hurt, I fear.
I can understand why the twins keep up with their quest - they don't want to go home; there are too many memories there. Elladan's words were very sad: “There are memories and vacant places at home that I fear will be very hard to face.”
On a lighter note, the tracking and woodcraft lesson was most interesting! I see Galelas hasn't changed at all, either.
Author's reply
Are you sure you haven't been looking at my notes for this story, Jay? LOL. I guess you know these characters pretty well. I really feel for the twins. They haven't been home yet since their mother left. The first time back will be terrible. And yet, they need their family and don't need too much of one another, I think.
I had a ton of fun looking up tracking and woodcraft stuff. It seemed very elfy to me.
elliska
· 9 November 2004
· Chapter 4: Animals in the Forest
Oh those twins are going to get themselves in trouble and really rile Thranduil in the process! Maybe Eilian will learn something, seeing something of himself in them. Poor Mithrandir. I would not want to be him at this moment.
I loved the woodcraft lesson. I honestly think Annael is my favorite OC of yours. He is so very likable and such a good friend for Legolas. I love how he is such a good woodcraft student. I would have liked to have seen Turgon punch Galelas but I guess that would have ended the lesson.
The news about the orcs was bad all around. The direction this is going is getting scary. Great chapter and such a treat. Should be working. Oh well.
Author's reply
It's hard to know what to do about the twins. They are 2500 year old elven warriors, the fully adult children of the lord of Imladris. So one can advise and show concern as one would for a friend, and as ruler of the Woodland Realm, Thranduil could forbid some things and order others, I suppose. But they aren't his subjects or his sons and can just leave if they want to.
I have had so much fun looking stuff up for this story. I had TONS of stuff on tracking. I love Annael. He's just humming along, he's so happy doing this.
I have 5 pages of the next chapter written, all camping trip stuff, that I originally thought would be in this chapter, but decided needed to come later. We'll see.
I have to go teach in 10 minutes, but it's just upstairs. :-)
White Wolf
· 8 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
I'm really looking forward to the 'battle' between Eilian and the twins. I bet there are some things they can teach each other.
I'm also looking forward to Legolas's outing. Will he be getting into trouble or behaving himself? Does it depend on what Turgon comes up with for them to get into?
I wish Ithilden could loosen up a bit. I love the character, but he is often too buttoned up, even knowing the aw-some responsibility he has as troop commander.
Author's reply
I couldn't face writing more sparring scenes, so I'm afraid I'm not going to show the actual sword practice. But I wouldn't be surprised if they all need their swords at some point in this story.
I had been hoping to get the whole camping trip story in the next chapter, but I think it's going to spill over into the following one. I have Chapter 4 mostly drafted, but I have to work today, so it won't be up until tonight probably.
Ithilden is awfully buttoned up, but that's him. Alfirin does him some good eventually, but he hasn't been able to stop stuttering around her yet in this story. :-)
Duchess
· 8 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
A very good, if disturbing part. The twins really DO need to go home and be with their family. They haven't grieved properly yet. *shaking my head* Putting them together with Eilian is a scarey prospect! Will he be influenced by them or will he be good FOR them instead? *curious*
Oh I do NOT want anything bad to happen to the Elflings! You do realize that most of the outings Legolas is involved in end up in disaster somehow, don't you? I really hope the rest of them don't start looking at him as some sort of jinx!
Loved Gandalf's last line to Thranduil! *still giggling*
An EXCELLENT part! Thank you for sharing it with us. :)
Author's reply
Glad you liked it, Duchess. The twins "failed" to find their mother in time to prevent harm to her and then watched her suffer for a year. I can't imagine what that would have been like, poor things. I'm not quite sure yet how they and Eilian will react to one another. I'm still asking myself what Eilian would do.
You made me laugh about Legolas being a jinx. It does seem as if all of his trips go awry!
thechevin
· 8 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
This chapter was so good you really made me feel for the sons of Elrond and also gave me an insight into how Thranduil and Ithilden had coped or not with their own loss. Loss of a parent is hard on children of any age but loss through such violence must make it doubly hard.
Thranduil's strength held his family firm and they were fortunate
I am on edge now that the woodcraft group have gone into the forest especially given the fact that the man who shot at the raft has not been apprehended while the majority of the elflings opps shouldn't call them that should I? might do as they are told they are taking Turgon with them!
And as for Legolas' comment on his Adar and the strange effect he has on other people this was priceless as was his reaction to the kiss.
Loved every word
Author's reply
As I was writing this chapter, I was moaning to my beta that nothing happened and everyone would be bored. I cared about all this emotional stuff for my characters but I wasn't sure anyone else would. So I'm very glad you did!
Thranduil did indeed hold his family together. Other things were different for them than for Elrond too, of course. There was a very young child in Thranduil's family and they all could clearly see his needs, which made them think of someone other then themselves. There were orcs almost on their doorstep, so no-one was going to go wandering ME to find them. And they hadn't just watched Lorellin suffer for a whole year before she gave in and sailed. That must have been hard.
I spent all of yesterday writing about the camping trip and then decided most of what I had written goes in chapter 5 rather than 4. But the trip will appear in 4. I just have to start over writing it!
Legolas just wants to be one of the guys right now, poor little thing. His father's the king even if he doesn't come to the training fields.
Dot
· 7 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
Oh, great chapter. Of course, anything with lots of Ithilden would make me happy… I’ve just realised too that what I like most about the appearance of Elladan and Elrohir is the fact that it allows a deeper glimpse at Thranduil’s family and their own actions after Lorellin’s death, especially as they begin to notice things about their own behaviour that they might not have thought about at the time as they observe the sons of Elrond. And while I’m rambling on I might as well say that I think those two should be split up quick smart – Ithilden should take one off somewhere and Eilian should take the other and then maybe they might be able to open up a bit without fear of what the other will think. And if someone doesn’t give them a big hug soon I’m jolly well going to go and do it myself :-( So there!
I loved the bit with the Men in Ithilden’s office. His glare makes most Elves uneasy so I can only imagine how it affects Men! ‘Invitation’, eh? LOL, I could have told him that was a mistake! It’s nice to see Beam crop up again. I’m so used to reading about Elves now that I get confused about the ages of Men. I had to laugh at him talking to the “less desirable element.” I imagine the Elves would tend to see most Men as ‘less desirable’. I thought you wrote Caridd very well – Ithilden is right, he does come across as an advisor. Caridd’s actually doing quite well too considering who’s sitting in front of him. After all, they probably don’t have any spare soldiers. But I really enjoyed Ithilden tormenting him a little. Poor Beam would probably be less than thrilled if he did make an appearance in Esgaroth. Tiran is quiet so far. It must be rather overwhelming to be in the midst of Elves for the first time. And if all the Elves did decide to suddenly attack Caridd, there wouldn’t be much he could do to stop them. Not that that would happen, but he doesn’t know that. I was surprised that Thranduil asked them to attend the feast but it was a friendly enough gesture and a good opportunity to see how much more at ease Elladan and Elrohir are among Men than Thranduil & co. would be.
What a very impressive sight they all must have made at the high table. Lovely image! That part about one of the servants brushing down Mithrandir’s robes was hilarious. Thranduil has such funny thoughts sometimes. I don’t know how many times I end up in hysterics at some of the things that go through his head. I loved the idea that Thranduil was able to talk to Mithrandir a little about his own loss during his last visit. And the fact that Mithrandir obviously does know about Lorellin leads me to believe that there must be some reason that he brought Elrond’s sons to visit Mirkwood, and that maybe those aren’t the only two Elves who might learn something.
So Mithrandir wants to see Legolas? I don’t blame Thranduil for being a bit apprehensive when a wily old wizard decides to take an interest in his youngest child. I like the sense almost of Mithrandir knowing he should get to know something of Legolas but maybe not entirely certain why himself yet.
“But Ithilden had been determined to carry out his role as Thranduil’s heir and the commander of his troops and had therefore gone with grim determination to every ceremony where he might be expected.” Oh, lord. I had to take a moment there and go for a walk around. What a heartbreaking picture that is. And the poor thing never realised that maybe it would be better if he just stayed away. I thought you captured the idea of raw grief very well with the part about Elladan and Elrohir distancing themselves, almost unable to take in the fact that others could feel joy, and with Thranduil thinking about how he and Ithilden would have registered very little in the early days of their own grief. It’s spot on, really and also drives home just how recent Celebrían’s departure is. I like too how much Thranduil has seems to see now that he’s had these years to recover a little. I mean, at the time of “When Shadow Touches Home” he was still oblivious to a lot of his sons’ reactions or the reasons behind some of their actions but here it’s almost as though he’s been able to step back and has a much clearer idea now of what was happening at that time. I haven’t expressed that very well… But anyway, the twins are clearly in the very early days of grief when we all become quite introverted and self-absorbed in a way.
“Thranduil noted with interest that he was easier even than Ithilden, who tended to be impatient with Men’s short-term thinking.” Oh right, *Ithilden* is impatient with Men, eh Thranduil??! I do like, though, how clear the difference is and shows just how much contact Elladan and Elrohir have with Men, as well as how high their regard for them must be.
“Thranduil, have I told ever told you that you are sometimes a comfort to me?” I should think he is! The guy has no Ring of Power and has very likely been kept in the dark about a lot of goings-on but all he wants to do is get rid of Sauron and any other dark creatures that might be about, preferably without any need to sit around discussing it first. So Mithrandir’s job of inciting people to rise against Sauron is very easy when it comes to Thranduil.
I was so happy when Ithilden took the twins off for a chat! It must have been quite difficult for him to sit and watch them have to put on a brave face. I thought it was interesting that Elrohir assures him that they’re doing their best to wipe out the Orcs. It’s almost as though he seems to think that Ithilden feels the same need for vengeance, whereas Thranduil’s sons have no choice in fighting Orcs. They have to try to protect their home and have no need to go and seek them out. I think he’s absolutely right about the two of them not being entirely good for one another at this stage in their grief. It’s fascinating that they both seem to feel the exact same. I wonder if it’s one more than the other and if it’s really then more a matter of loyalty on the part of the other. It is a frightening thought what would have happened if Eilian did have someone like himself to rely on. Well, he did have a little brother who was just as angry but at least Legolas was young enough for Eilian just to empathise with and try to protect. Ithilden speaks from experience, of course, about needing the support of family but I guess they’ve heard this from many people now and mere words aren’t going to make any difference at this stage.
“And Adar, I do not want to hurt your feelings, but everyone gets all peculiar when you come.” LOL! Poor Legolas. Even funnier was the fact that Ithilden was also trying to accompany him and got all annoyed when he couldn’t. Surely there are other places Alfirin hangs out?! It was quite sweet to see that Eilian is so popular with the youngsters. Yep, he’d definitely make a great father…;-) “We are staying close to the stronghold, and surely I can manage a half-dozen of them.” *groan* Well, that trip is well and truly jinxed now. Silly Sondil.
It must be quite something to watch the twins spar. Of course, with a bunch of warriors watching them, the differences in styles were bound to be noted. I would have presumed they’d have been taught differently but I hadn’t thought about the reason for that. I don’t know whether it’s scarier that the Elves of Imladris are being taught to fight a more “intelligent opponent” – which must be Men, Dwarves or even other Elves – or that the Mirkwood Elves have to learn to attack Orcs and finish each of them off as quickly as possible. As usual, though, Eilian is quick to praise where it’s due. He doesn’t know about their mother yet, does he? Well, he won’t be long realising something’s up if they are determined to learn how to dispose of Orcs quickly and efficiently. “Then perhaps we have things to teach one another.” Hmmn. I can’t wait to see where this is going. There are lessons to be learned but I wonder who’ll do the most learning? Those twins definitely need a little help to come out of themselves and see past the anger. I know they continue to hunt Orcs but that doesn’t mean that it has to be in such a mindless and desperate manner. Oh, and I can’t forget that elflings and Men might both be in for an exciting time too! Right, this seems to be taking me all day so I’ll buzz off now and leave you alone. Top-notch as always and I’ll be quietly chewing on my nails here ‘til the next chapter! :-)
Author's reply
You're so funny about Ithilden, Dot! Maybe I'll have to let him get shirtless and sweaty again, just for you! :-)
As I was writing this chapter, I too realized that my focus has to be on Thranduil's family. I want to try to make the twins as alive as I can, but they're not my central characters. So I think I'm going stay out of their heads and show mostly the reactions of the brothers Thranduilion. But I think that both sets of brothers have things to learn. Your sense of the twins matches mine in that I see nothing necessarily ominous in their continued hunting of Orcs. After all, Thranduil's sons do that too. But they need to climb out of the black despair that their recent loss has caused.
I too get confused about the age of Men and have to keep checking my previous stories to see when people appear. But Beam was in "One Year," which takes place 10 years down the road, so I thought he'd be around now too. And I'm very interested in how the twins react to Men. I think that Mithrandir probably wants some cooperation among the races here. Their squabbling among themselves must drive him wild. And bless your for remembering Mithrandir's job with the Ring of Fire! And you also caught the allusion to Ithilden wanted to "accidentally" meet Alfirin. What a satisfying reader you are!
Thranduil is so irreverant that he does think funny thoughts. He has no patience with pretense or pomposity. Actually, you can see where Eilian gets some of his lack of reverence too. It's just that Thranduil is more circumspect about where he voices it.
I thought you expressed yourself well about how perceptive Thranduil is in retrospect about his sons. He's learned a lot, and he now sees things in the twins that he had trouble seeing in his own sons. No wonder they scare him. And you're right about poor Ithilden. He clung to duty and routine and just marched through the motions with grief rolling off him.
I've been thinking about the similarity between Legolas and Eilian after their mother died because French Pony mentioned that too. I think that Eilian saw himself in Legolas, but Legolas was little, so Eilian could also get some distance on his anger. Elladan and Elrohir look sensible to one another in a way that Legolas never looked to Eilian.
One of the things I like about Eilian is that he's very generous about the strengths of others. He always has been that way. And I've decided that you're right: he doesn't know about the twins' mother yet. Geez. How am I going to deal with that little revelation? Oh well. For now I just have to picture the camping trip and I have a page of notes about it and a bunch of internet research on tracking and foraging for food so I'm good to go! The internet also gave me the stuff about different fighting styles. How did Tolkien ever function without it?
Nilmandra
· 7 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
As I mentioned yesterday, I liked this chapter in that we gained some new insight into the characters. The chapter may not have had as much action, but because action didn't get in the way, you let us see into how people thought and perceived others. I am looking forward also to how Elladan, Elrohir and Eilian get along.
Author's reply
I was actually surprised by how the characters came alive in these interactions. I just didn't know if anyone would care about that as much as I did. I'm still feeling my way about E3 (as Jay calls them). I think there has to be some two-way effect.
Brazgirl
· 7 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
Nice chapter, as always! But two little things called my attention: first one was Thranduil's worries about Gandalf's interest in his younger child. The wizard is trouble for him, is he not? Then, was Legolas saying how weird he feels when the king walks with him close to his friends. That was funny. I don't know why but I am starting to be more fond of Ithilden because of this fic. He is so open to me right now... Too bad the chapter ended soon - I was too concentrated reading to see the end of it. Thanks for the update!!!!
Author's reply
Gandalf is indeed potential trouble, at least from one point of view. He is the holder of the ring of fire, and his job is to travel around stirring up the hearts of people so they will resist Sauron. Thranduil doesn't know that, of course, but he's pretty sharp. On some level, I'll bet he realizes that no good can come from letting his baby hang around the wizard.
Poor Thranduil, though. Being king does make it harder for him to be just Legolas's father. And even if he were just Legolas's father, the kid is at an age where he might not want his parent around his friends.
I'm getting fonder of Ithilden too. I don't show him much sometimes, but as I do show him more, I can see his interesting qualities. He's like his father, but more insecure, despite his arrogance.
elliska
· 7 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
Yes, now that I've had a little sleep and I am able to read the last scene without having a fangirl moment--please tell us that Eilian is going to have a rare moment of conservativism and be a good influence on E & E. Of course we know the twins do go about the rest of their lives hunting orcs but not Eilian. Not when he's already injured. ... Thranduil would kill him for that and Ithilden would bust him back so far in the ranks he'd be polishing floors or peeling potatoes. You really did writing an opening that gives you all kinds of potential here, didn't you. Clever author.
Author's reply
Thranduil would absolutely have a fit if Eilian took off on his own, and even harebrained Eilian knows it. But for the twins, there is a question. We know they hunted orcs after this, but then, so do Thranduil's sons. The real issue is what happens in their hearts and minds while they do it. Because if they don't get that straight, they'll destroy themselves.
Bodkin
· 7 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
PS: Did the twins bring their formal robes and circlets with them? Or does Thranduil have a supply for incorrectly attired guests? Although I quite see why he would not attempt to persuade Mithrandir to avail himself of it.
Author's reply
I think Thranduil could manage the robes, if not the circlets, but I thought that the twins might have some stuff with them. They've just come back from accompanying their mother to the Havens and then their grandparents to Lothlorien. So they didn't set out from Imladris intending to go on an extensive hunt.
When I wrote about Mithrandir, I did picture how cool he looked at Gandalf the White, but I think as Gandalf the Grey he would not have been easy to spruce up.
Bodkin
· 7 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
What a very satisfactory chapter. I just love the thought of Thranduil being a comfort to Mithrandir. I suppose his resilience and obstinacy as well as his kindness and intelligence would be factors - Mithrandir would just know that, no matter what, Thranduil will still be there, battling the Dark. Not to mention having produced three rather delightful sons who have his own high principles and self-discipline. (Well, sort of. Eilian has his off moments, but nothing would stop him doing whatever he can for the forest.)
Words just aren't going to get through to the Elrondionnath though. They've heard them all - Elrond, Celeborn, Galadriel, Glorfindel, Arwen - they must all have been telling them that what they are doing is not going to help. Perhaps what they need is a big dose of kinaesthetic learning - and Eilian is probably the best person to provide that. I could empathise with Ithilden's chill at the thought of two Eilians each feeding from the other's fury. Bad idea, very bad idea.
Ithilden enjoyed playing with the Men, though. He seemed to have more sympathy with the keeper than the diplomat - he prefers straightforward really, doesn't he? And he wasn't pleased to miss the chance of seeing a certain healer's daughter - he'll feel better about that if he discovers that she wasn't there bidding her little brother farewell.
Eilian was surprisingly gratified at the idea that Legolas's friends liked him - (I'm left thinking of the snowballing episode!) - but I don't know that it would surprise Thranduil - Eilian still is a big kid at heart and he relishes doing and getting away with things (feathers) that L, A and T would love to do.
It must be seriously difficult being the offspring of someone famous and watching all your friends change in his/her presence. And watching your parent become someone else, too. Being a sibling of someone famous could be pretty awful, too. Worse in some ways, perhaps.
Love Eilian's excitement at the idea of Glorfindel - don't know if he has quite thought through the intelligent opponent thing - because that involves elves fighting elves back in the depths of time. Although Men and Dwarves probably count as intelligent. To some.
Looking forward to the next instalment.
Author's reply
I thought that Mithrandir would value Thranduil partly because Mithrandir is the holder of the ring of fire, and his task is to go around inspiring people to resist evil. Thranduil is easy to inspire!
When I thought about the sons of Erond and Thranduil together, it seemed to me that Eilian is the one who is the most akin to the twins. I'm working on their interaction, trying to see how each is affected by it. I do think the twins need to look outside themselves a bit. They can keep on fighting orcs if they want; Thranduil's sons do that, after all. But their own hearts and spirits need to shift a little or they'll destroy themselves.
I'm glad someone caught the reason Ithilden was "vexed"! I thought that Tonduil was probably resisting having his sister show up at every turn just as Legolas was resisting his father. Eilian is only 90, however, and is, as you say, just a big kid himself sometimes.
And oh yeah on who Glorfindel's opponents have been. Scary thought, no?
Alice
· 6 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
Me again. I just reread this and having reread the last scene with Elladan saying " Than perhaps we have things to teach one another", I am now throughly concerned. They want Eilian to teach them about fighting orcs so they can go and have their revenge. That's not good. I love how your stories have enough depth that I can reread them and notice things I missed on the first go around.
Author's reply
Yes, that's exactly what they want. Eilian has spent the last 30 years in intensive fighting of Orcs. Moreover, he knows where they are and how they tend to prowl in the forest. The twins want his information as if he were a scout for them.
sofia
· 6 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
its hard to picture that Elladan, Elrohir and Eilian have never met before. To me it seems that they have. I do wonder if something will happen on Legolas' trip and if Sondil can control a group of elflings; though i do not doubt that he can.
-sofia
Author's reply
It's tricky to remember the history of all these elves. Elladan and Elrohir are among the few characters for whom Tolkien gives us an actual birth date: 130 TA. That means that they are about 2500 years old in my story, whereas Eilian is 90 and even Ithilden is only a little over 600. So the twins are much more experienced. And it's a long way from Rivendell to Mirkwood, with a mountain range and the largest forest in ME in between. So I thought the twins might not have met Eilian before.
Now the camping trip is another question. Sondil may be able to control the kids, but he can't control everything!
Alice
· 6 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
Being a perceptive reader is what happens when you take AP English at my school and get the only teacher in the district who assigns Moby Dick (not that I'm complaining since this particular teacher rocks my socks, but still). Oh and the fact that there's actually stuff to percieve in your work says a lot about how high quality it is. In the midst of the rubble that is fanfiction writing, your stories are jewels.
I really hope that Elladan and Elrohir don't put Eilian back into Belowen's care. That will not endear them to their host. I found your description of their style of fighting intresting. It hadn't occured to me before that the Rivendell elves would fight differently than the Mirkwood elves, though I picture them completely different. Rivendell is more refined while Mirkwood is more ferocious. Neither type of warrior is one you'd want to meet in battle.
I loved the scene with Mithrandir and Thranduil. I should really read the Hobbit because I'd like seeing more of their friendship. I'm with Mithrandir on Thranduil being very comforting. If he's going down he's taking Sauron with him. He's a very good person to have on your side. Thranduil's strong and smart (as shown by his concern over Mithrandir taking an interest in Legolas). I have to wonder how Thranduil felt about Mithrandir after learning he was planning on taking his precious baby into Mordor on essentially a suicide mission. I read these stories and I feel so sad for Legolas and for his family knowing what pain they'll go through because of the quest. Something tells me that it took a lot of work and a little bit of time to repair any damage done to Legolas's relationships. (sigh) My poor woodelf.
Ithilden is just such a kick-butt commander. I love how he intimidates the men. (snicker) Poor first encounter with elves advisor. Beam should have taken him aside and warned him not to mess with Ithilden. I love how Legolas tells Eilian he is allowed to come because he doesn't scare anyone. LOL! Every adolescent is embarrassed by their family in front of his friends but Legolas has a particular worry in that his family actually scares his friends. I thought it was kind of sad though that Thranduil didn't get to walk Legolas to the field because he makes people act peculiar. Being a King interferes with him being Ada a bit more than he likes. Poor Adar/King.
I look forward to the next chapter. I like Elladan and Elrohir and can't wait for a good fight scene with them in Eilian. God help the elf trying to clean up after what they do though because two elvisn warriors seriously grieving plus foolhard ( I love him, but let's be honest here) Eilian all heavily armed and enthusiastic is not a good thought. Update soon!
Author's reply
Thank you, Alice. And thanks to your AP teacher too!
It occurred to me that different cultures might have different styles of sword fighting depending on things like history, resources, enemies, etc. And bless the internet, it turns out there are sites that explain all this stuff. That's how I learned about arrow fletching too. How Tolkien ever got along without it, I'll never know. If you're interested and have time to waste when not reading Moby Dick, I got this particular stuff at www.reality.com/dmhist.htm.
I love your observation that if Thranduil is going down, he's taking Sauron with him. Mithrandir is the holder of the ring of fire, and his task is to inspire people to resist Sauron. Thranduil must be an interesting case for him because on one hand he and his father retreated several times before establishing the stronghold at the caverns, and on the other, he's stubborn as all get out. Mithrandir is happy to see the stubborn side win out,I think.
I feel sorry for Thranduil too. Letting his baby go is hard for him. As long as he can keep seeing Legolas as a child, I think he feels more in contact with Lorellin.
Sad to say, I'm not going to show the sparring match between Elladan and Eilian. There will be enthusiastic sword play later though. In the meantime, use your imagination!
The Karenator
· 6 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
What a wonderful chapter. Everything that happened was so understated and well, just perfect for a good read.
The men are an interesting pair. I can't help my suspicious mind. I've got my eye on the shifty, gimpy guy. I don't trust him. He's...well...shifty. Wounded or not, I'd watch him if I were Ithilden. Actually, I'd like to see Ithilden get a hold of him. I think we might learn something...even if it's just his mother's pound cake recipe.
Mithrandir is a sly old warg, isn't he? He's set up the perfect medicine for the grieving twins. Ithilden is a peer that they can feel comfortable with--as much as they can feel anyone right now--and he understands their grief. I thought it was quite perceptive of him to note that the twins were feeding one another's grief. As I've said before, not healthy. That was a very nicely done scene. Very subtle.
And I can't say I blame Thranduil for being wary of Mithrandir's interest in Legolas. Seemingly, the wizard is just being polite, but as anyone who knows Gandalf knows, he is rarely doing or saying anything without purpose. Thranduil is no fool.
My suspicious mind is also waiting to find out what sort of trouble poor Sondil is going to find with a half dozen youngsters out in the woods. That guy doing the Chester imitation isn't going to cause problems, is he?
AND just like all the other squeeing fangirls...I can't wait for the sparring match between Eilian and Elladan. I think Eilian is being modest and I can't wait to see it! Wait just a minute, I need a moment to get my folding chair set up and my glass of tea. Okay, I'm ready. Carry on.... By the way, does it seem awfully warm in here to you?
Karen
Author's reply
You are suspicious, Karen! The poor Men. Not only do they have Ithilden leaning on them, they have you scrutinizing them with narrowed eyes.
Mithrandir is indeed sly. I think he was probably on his way to see Thranduil anyway, on his regular rounds of newsgathering and trying to prod people into action. He holds the ring of fire, after all. That's part of his job. But then he saw a good opportunity to try to draw the twins a little bit out of the depth of their rage and guilt. I think they'll need time to regain a little balance, but, as you say, they're not going to get too balanced while egging one anothero on.
I'm planning to start writing about the camping trip this afternoon. And I'm sorry to say I'm not going to show the sparring match between Eilian and Elladan. I promise to compensate you later, ok? Go cool off now.
French Pony
· 6 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
Ooooh, Ithilden in Bad-Ass mode! There's something you don't see nearly enough of. Dude, he's got every little eyebrow quirk, finger steeple and Thranduil-Glare (tm) down pat, and these poor Men are just eating out of the palm of his hand! If he wasn't so rigid and conservative, he could be a great King. But, alas, he does seem to lack that certain special inspiration of Thranduil's that keeps people constantly on their toes. But Ithilden is a certified Bad-Ass, no doubt about that.
And then for the poor intimidated Men to find themselves at a feast with Thranduil, Ithilden, Mithrandir and the sons of Elrond. . . they must be just melting with intimidation right now.
Roast pheasant sounds good. I think I'd like to try Elf-hunted pheasant sometime. The bird is fairly gamy and needs a strong sauce unless you like that gamy taste, which some people do. I had pheasant once, and my main impression of it was picking the lead shot out of my dinner, which made it difficult to eat, which is why I'd like to try pheasant hunted by bow and arrow sometime. You just can't pair any wine with lead shot flavoring. Actually, speaking of wine, do you know why it is that people swirl wine? I have a couple of friends who like to do that, and it puzzles me, because they've never met, and it seems like an odd habit to share.
Thranduil is quite the wise and perceptive Elf to be wary of Mithrandir's interest in his baby. I can just imagine Mithrandir's post-War of the Rings reception in Mirkwood, after Thranduil has just gotten over a year of worrying about Legolas. Those must have been fireworks to see!
The therapy of Elladan and Elrohir is an interesting one to watch. Clearly, they aren't very receptive to "adult" efforts to talk to them. It seems as though Mithrandir is just trying to get them in the same room with someone who has suffered a similar loss to their own and let things take their course, trying to give them an example of how to cope, I guess. It's probably a good thing for Elladan and Elrohir, but it seems to put quite a strain on Ithilden, being tossed in without much guidance or warning.
Ithilden felt a sudden chill. He was not at all sure that these two identical, grieving Elves were wise supporters for one another just now. He tried to picture Eilian relying on someone like himself and had to swallow hard.
Eilian did rely on someone like himself, just not the same age. It struck me that he and Legolas were as similar in their grieving styles as their age difference would allow. The real problem would have been if Ithilden had been a twin and had had to rely on someone like himself.
“Yes,” Sondil grinned. “We are staying close to the stronghold, and surely I can manage a half-dozen of them.”
Famous last words, Sondil.
Author's reply
I wonder if Thranduil was more like Ithilden when he was young. Maybe he learned that wiliness and ability to manipulate through hard experience. He and Ithilden share the same preference for directness, but Thranduil is far better at dealing with unexpected complications. Ithilden is actually rather young. 600 maybe. I'd have to look it up. I have all this written down somewhere. He was born about 100 years before the balrog reawoke in Moria.
People swirl wine for two reasons. One is to aerate it, let it breathe, as they say. The scent and flavor become more perceptible after contact with air. Also when you're first trying a wine, you swirl it to see the way it runs down the side of the glass (its "legs"). That tells you about its body, how thick or thin it is. I like wine, in case you can't tell. :-)
Ithilden really find the twins disturbing, I think. For that matter, so does Thranduil. But at least the twins are with reasonably sane, sympathetic people at the moment. Of course, they feel out of place there and can scarcely believe that people can do things such as enjoy wine. We'll have to see how they do with Eilian, who really does seem to be their closest match here.
Good observation about Eilian and Legolas and how badly off Ithilden would have been with someone as repressed and guilty as he is.
Famous last words indeed!
Manderly
· 6 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
What stood out for me in this chapter is the difference between Ithilden and Eilian in the way they interacted with the twins. Ithilden is forever the responsible and mature one and Eilian is, well, Eilian. You have given me greater insight into their differing personalities.
I liked the little scene between Thranduil and Mithrandir. Mithrandir interested in Legolas? Hmm, I wonder why. Thranduil is right to be feeling a little apprehensive. If he only knew what is ahead for Legolas, no doublt he would have his youngest attached to his side like a Siamese twin.
What Legolas said about how his friends see Eilian! And Eilian feeling pleased about it. Like I said, Eilian is Eilian and I love him for it!
Author's reply
I'm sitting here thinking about what you said about the different ways Ithilden and Eilian react to the twins. You're right of course. And I think they react differently partly because of how they first see them. Eilian sees two warriors sparring and is thrilled by their grace and elegance. He doesn't see their sorrow yet. He may not even know about it. Thranduil's first instinct was to keep him away from them, and Eilian wasn't at the feast. (You can see I'm thinking about this particular detail as I type. When does Eilian find out?)
Mithrandir is fascinating. Sometimes he seems to have a feeling for the future but he may not understand it himself. So I think he's just interested in Legolas without knowing clearly why himself. And Thranduil has known Mithrandir long enough to see the danger there.
Eilian is only 90 in this story and is a big kid himself!
esamen
· 6 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
Oh, great stuff. I have to note several lines that just gave me shivers of delight:
Ithilden raised an eyebrow. “I could always send someone to help Beam,” he said coolly, watching as they both flinched slightly. “Indeed,” he added, with secret glee, “I could go myself, if it proved necessary.”
Weeelllll, Ithilden!!?? Not above being strictly business, eh? Making them sweat like that? You are mean.
******
Thranduil raised an eyebrow. “Any particular reason?” he asked a bit apprehensively. He was not sure that he welcomed Mithrandir’s interest in his youngest son.
No kidding! I wouldn't either! Thranduil ought to lock Legolas in his room for the rest of Mithrandir's visit. I suspect that your plot will have quite the opposite happening (or, rather, I hope so . . . lots of action and dire straits, with all these gorgeous Elves around? What else is a good fanfic for?)
**********
Thranduil rather suspected that Ithilden’s presence had not always been welcome by those who wanted to forget sorrow for a while, and he knew that Ithilden had not always even registered what was happening around him, any more than Thranduil himself had.
This is great. Very deep. I am exploring the issues of grief and loss myself in my own story, and this is a wonderful insight. We all respond differently to trauma, and then others react to our response. This sentence gracefully registers all these levels of grief and recovery. Beautifully succinct; artfully done . . .
**********
Ithilden and the twins rose, bowed to Thranduil, and made their way from the Great Hall, drawing glances all the way to the door. As well they should, Thranduil thought, watching the three tall, strong figures disappear.
As I said . . . what else is a good fan fic for? Love those tall, beautifully muscled fellas striding out of the hall all together.
**********
Elladan smiled wolfishly. “Then perhaps we have things to teach one another.” He tossed the dipper back into the bucket with a small splash. “Come,” he said and led Eilian back out onto the training field.
Wow! This whole scene was AWESOME! Fabulous action, vivid description, and Eilian's bright, vulnerable words and actions just gave the whole thing an unbelievable zing upwards from the heights where it already dwelt. Wow, Wow! Oh, I can't wait to read the rest. Thank you, thank you! Keep those young lords living and real. I just love dawtheminstrel-land.
Have as much fun typing as one woman possibly can,
Esamen
Author's reply
I suspect that Ithilden can have a rather nasty sense of humor. And his arrival in Esgaroth would no doubt give Beam an enormous headache. LOL. I'm sorry. My sense of humor can be nasty too, I guess.
It's really hard to guess how much foresight Mithrandir has. He seems to have "feelings" about things and maybe Legolas is one of them. And also, his task as the bearer of the ring of fire is to stir up the hearts of people to fight Sauron. So he really is interested in the next generation, just as he says he is. He sees all these people as essential to the salvation of Middle-earth. But Thranduil should indeed be dismayed by the wizard's interest in his baby.
I have to thank you for that compliment on the sentence about Ithilden's grief. I've been worrying lately that my style is clunky sometimes, so I really like it when people seem to think that it's not.
As I was writing this chapter, I knew that not much was happening in it. And then I started writing the bit about Eilian and the twins and I decided I didn't care! Gorgeous elves indeed.
elliska
· 6 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
Oooo, everything is cooking along here nicely. Loved Ithilden's interview with the men. I bet men do respond well to his questioning--spill their guts just like they would to Thranduil. Scary. No doubt they don't want him in Esgaroth!
And I liked Ithilden's attempt to give some advice born of experience to the twins. They heard it, obviously. But they likely could not process it. The inability to understand how others can enjoy small things when one is in mourning was captured well in this scene.
So was Thranduil's nervousness over Gandalf's interest in Legolas. Little do they all know. Great!
Poor Thranduil--Legolas doesn't want him walking him to his big trip. That has to hurt a little even though Thranduil understands it. I like how pleased Eilian is to be accepted.
Any sparing match between Eilian and those twins would be a very hot thing to watch. Sorry, had a fangirl moment there. Think I'll go think about something less...yummy.
Great chapter.
Author's reply
Thinking about Ithilden stalking through the back streets of Esgaroth demanding information makes me giggle. I suppose the biggest danger is that the bad guys would faint dead away before they could spit out the words of confession.
I'm still thinking about the twins. I don't think they were mindless vengeance seekers for the next 500 years, although they ceaselessly did battle orcs. All of Thranduil's sons battle orcs pretty ceaselessly in that time and they're not mindless. So the question for the twins is really one of mental and emotional balance. That's what needs to start happening, although I imagine it would take a while to achieve. And I think they need to be able to see someone other than one another for that to happen.
I remember when my son started wanting me to let him out of the car a block away from school. My very existence was an embarrassment, and if I talked, that was completely mortifying. It is funny to think of Thranduil in those terms though. And of course, everyone would get "peculiar" when the king arrives.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 6 November 2004
· Chapter 3: Learning from One Another
I was on my way to bed (it's past midnight here) when I checked my e-mail one last time. An update!
I liked Ithilden 'inviting' the men to see him, and can quite imagine him going to Esgaroth himself to investigate - maybe Beam would be better! I found Thranduil's comment on the twins sad: the sons of Elrond were holding themselves apart from those around them, almost as if they were puzzled by the way others could laugh and enjoy the small pleasures of music and good food, when they themselves were so devastated but so very true.
Ithilden thinking of Eilian turning to another like himself was interesting - I hadn't thought about the twins re-inforcing each other's vengeance before. Maybe they are too self contained with one another.
I do hope Legolas's trip will go smoothly - oh, wait, this is a Daw story. It won't, then.
Finally, can I be all fangirly and drool over the twins sparring? And them wearing formal robes and circlets? I'm looking forward to E3 sparring too!
Jay
Author's reply
I have to admit that I've been startled by the number of reviewers who want to see E3 (good one, Jay) sparring. In a small voice, I confess that I don't intend to write about it now. :-) How about if I promise you'll get a chance to see them doing something similar later? In the meantime, use your imagination!
It seems to me that one of the most bizarre things about mourning is that the rest of the world goes on as if nothing had happened. And I keep reminding myself that Celebrian had sailed very recently, so the sorrow must be really raw for them. And frankly, I don't think they're very good for one another right now. Support is one thing, but feeding one another's rage is another.
I thought I'd get to the camping trip in this chapter but it went on for too long, despite the fact that not much happened in it. So the next one.
Caro
· 3 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
I read and RE-read all of your stories, DAW...."When Shadow Touches Home" being one of my all-time favorites.
Here is how I count how good a day has been.....first of all, back home in one piece...secondly, if I've received cheques in the mail, and finally if DAW has updated one of her stories. I actually savour the stories....making myself wait to 'treat' myself to reading new chapters.
The richness and depth with which you write the characters is the finest example of fanfiction. I hesitate to even call your stories fanfic, since they are so far above so much of the dreck out there, they are in a class all their own.
I have a PalmPilot (Zire 72) and I convert your stories to a format which works on my Palm and have them available to read when I am out and about. The number of hours I've spent reading your stories, I can't tell you.
This latest story, "Good Neighbours" is already testing my ability to be patient waiting for updates. Please know that your work touches me deeply. I am pleased to see a writer who enhances canon in such a manner. Thank you.
Author's reply
Oh my goodness, Caro. This is exceedingly generous of you, and I thank you for taking the time to tell me. I had never written fiction at all before I started writing these Legolas stories, and it took me a while to get up the courage to post, so I still find it hard to believe that people enjoy them.
Anyway,I started chapter 3 of "Good Neighbors" last night. I only wrote a page because this has been a busy week at work and the election took a lot out of everyone, I think. But it was fun to get swept up trying to figure out how Ithilden would react to the men from Esgaroth.
If what I do enhances canon for you, then I am deeply flattered.
Antje
· 3 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
How can one grow tired of your stories. Not possible!! I´m in awe about your talent and can hardly wait for updates. It´s usually the first thing in the morning to check if you´ve updated your stories. Your charactes are so real, you can feel their emotions, worries and it´s great to be able to join them on their struggle through life.
Please keep up your great work! Your fan from Iceland. Antje
Author's reply
Thank you, Antje. I got all excited about getting a review from Iceland and went and told the guy in the office next door to mine (although then I had to pretend I intended to work!).
If my characters feel real to you, then I am delighted beyond belief, especially if you feel their emotions. I had never written fiction at all before I started writing these Legolas stories and didn't know if I could to it. So I've been learning the craft slowly. You've made me feel very good by telling me that I seem to be succeeding.
Scarlett
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 2: Visitors and Families
Hi DAW!
OMG!! I just want to reach out and hug Turgon, and never let him go - the poor little elfling!!
Especially given what we know to be his destiny. **sigh**
Something about the thought of Turgon needing help with his arrows, but not getting the guidance that he needs from
his parents struck such a chord with me that it actually made me cry - it seems like a metaphor for his life.
(Of course, I'm sure that was what you were trying to convey, and I think I should get a gold star for picking up on it! *g*)
I'm just glad I decided to wait until I was at home to read this, as I would be hard-pressed to explain the tears rolling
down my face at the office! (Hee!) Mind you, this is not the first time I've had such a viceral reaction to one of your stories
- something about the way you depict your characters in their everyday struggles is so true-to-life (even though they're immortal beings!)
that I find myself reacting to them on a very emotional basis.
Poor Turgon is trying so hard in this chapter and not having very much success - I'm glad he has friends like Legolas and Annael,
maybe Legolas can get Eilian to help Turgon too!
Although, it does make a great deal of sense to me that Turgon would be very artistically gifted, but not practically so
- it's seems a very "Turgon-ish" way to be!! *g*
Author's reply
You and I think alike. I feel really bad for Turgon. He's trying so hard here, but he need help, for pity's sake! And Legolas and Annael aren't old enough to give it. His parents aren't unloving, but they don't seem to see what he needs. In contrast, the busy king makes sure someone will help Legolas when he can't. Sigh. I think Turgon is very creative. If his world had been a safer place, he'd have done all right, but of course, his world isn't safe at all.
In a sick kind of way, I'm glad I made you cry. :-)