French Pony
· 22 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
Somehow, I think that when Rodda is found out (and he will be found out), there will be somebody happy enough to see him that they won't string him up instantly. Although now I am more curious than ever to find out what he did that he thinks is a hanging offense.
Legolas is clearly starting to do some real thinking about ethics, both in his lessons about Thingol and in his daily life with Rodda. It's so hard to do the right thing sometimes. Especially when "the right thing" has so many different meanings.
Yeah, the twins are dangerous in the state they're in. Raise your hand if you're surprised. . . no hands. Fancy that. They may need to work this out for themselves, but they are endangering everyone around them.
I wonder if Legolas could use a set of Eilian's old formal robes. Yeah, they'd be hand-me-downs, but silk is tough and wears well, and Eilian probably didn't wear them very long, so they'd be in good shape still. No shame in wearing hand-me-downs, and it's been long enough since Eilian fit them that they'd look new again.
Author's reply
I feel bad for Rodda. He's even more miserable than the twins.
I think that as the son of a king, Legolas is particularly likely to have lessons in things like history and ethics. I think they'd make him think in somewhat larger terms than his friends do.
Unlike Eilian, who was very young when his mother died, the twins are adults with a great deal of experience under their belts. That doesn't mean they're behaving well, but it does mean that they may have some perspective that Eilian didn't have.
You know what? I bet elf children wore their clothes out more than human children do because they grew more slowly so the clothes would fit them for a longer time. However, if Legolas is like human boys of the equivalent age, he couldn't care less about what he wears, so this can probably all be worked out.
Dot
· 22 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
*g* Excellent chapter all round. Now that I’ve decided to just sit back and watch events unfold instead of trying to figure out what the heck is going on, I’m feeling all excited rather than tense. I’m really enjoying watching all the pieces come together.
That part with Nyndir was a nice little insight into the workings of the household. I never really thought about where they’d get their robes, clothes, etc. from. That Cudry is rather foolish to try to cheat the elves like that. Although, Thranduil is in a bit of a tough position if it means that his people will have to do without warm clothing in the winter. Whatever about himself and his sons making do, he can’t really ask it of anyone else. Nyndir clearly knows this. What’s he going to do? Pay for it with jewels? Or just ‘gently’ point out to Cudry that it’s mighty suspicious how he knew of the raft incident so quickly and got in touch so fast with exactly what they needed… I’m suspecting this guy took rather drastic measures to boost his earnings.
“Mortals will do almost anything for gold and jewels.” Hmm. He thinks this while looking at a picture of Menegroth?? He’s not wrong, of course, but either he never examined events with an impartial eye or he’s chosen to forget some things he’d rather not acknowledge.
These arrows keep cropping up. It seems they’ll probably have a role to play. It’s rather sweet to see how disappointed Legolas is that the archery class was cancelled. I know those arrow hunts! Wasn’t that what Eilian was doing the time he went swinging across a river or ravine or something on some precarious rope swing thingy he manufactured? It does sound fun!
Elu Thingol, eh? I was just thinking that Eilian studied him when he was a lot younger, but then Legolas mentioned he’d read about him before too. I couldn’t help smiling at Mithrandir’s rather less-than-discreet way of suggesting to Thranduil that men aren’t all bad and perhaps in some ways they and elves aren’t very different. I felt bad for Thranduil because these are obviously somewhat painful memories for him but it was good to see how objectively Legolas looks at history. It’s amazing to think of what Thranduil has lived through but in some ways living through history must cloud his judgement, while his sons have no emotional link to what they study and can view things more clearly as a result. I’d love to hear Thranduil talk about his past with his sons, but maybe the fact that he apparently doesn’t means that they haven’t grown up with innate prejudices from hearing his version of events – even though Legolas does seem to share his distrust of dwarves. I wouldn’t fancy being in Galeril’s shoes when it comes to studying Dagorlad, though. And I do like that at least by the end of the conversation Thranduil is beginning to admit that fault can also be found with some elves, even if it is just to himself so far.
Amdir’s so funny. If he’d leave out the bit about fighting Orcs people might be more likely to believe him. Or maybe not. If he’s anything like his brother he probably has a vivid imagination. That poor elf is probably thinking that sending him off to fight Orcs mightn’t be such a bad idea…
I really feel sorry for Turgon. Pretending he doesn’t care about his arrows and that he deliberately isn’t going to finish them probably seems better to him than admitting he needs help that the adults in his life just can’t seem to offer. The three of them should have met in Annael’s or Legolas’ home instead when they were making them.
So the elflings have a plan? A boy with three arrows wandering through a dangerous forest in the hopes of coming across some men who are friendly enough to take him in sounds like a marvellous idea and sure to work… Still, I’ve got to hand it to them – the elflings may be misguided but they’re doing their best for him. Nyndir seems to have a good idea of what clothes Thranduil’s family have – or at least whoever told him does - so I doubt Legolas could take many, but it’s good of him to be generous when he knows he has more than his friends. Is Nimloth still around or was that only when he was very young? Those palace cooks are going to start thinking there’s something wrong with him too if he keeps asking for food!
The battle scenes were very exciting! I wouldn’t have liked to be in Eilian’s position. He’s probably not used to wondering if his warriors will actually follow his orders or not. The battle itself had me gripped. I’ll never love reading about battles but you write them so well that they really come to life for me. Those men are so brave. And it seems in the end that they’re much easier to command than those twins (I must try not to call them elves so!).
I just knew Elladan and Elrohir would go for their swords sooner rather than later but I still groaned when they did. And I think I groaned even louder when the sight of them (fantastic image, btw!) resulted in a shiver of excitement in Eilian.
Eilian snapping at the twins was just brilliant. Sometimes I just love Eilian. Never as much as I do Ithilden, mind, but still… He was great here. Those two may not have really endangered their fellow warriors but by switching to their swords when they still had arrows left they deprived the others of any choices. It worked out well enough but the decision was Eilian’s to make, not theirs. “I have been where you are now, and, in the long run, it occurred to me that I was being a selfish ass.” Yes! You tell them, Eilian! Actually, I must admit that I have to keep reminding myself not to just automatically take the sides of Thranduil’s family against these two strangers – which is testament to your gift for creating characters I feel close to, I might add! The twins must have truly suffered in the year that Celebrían lingered but I really do think that Eilian is right when he reminds them that at least their mother will find healing and was able to make that choice. It must be frightening too for Eilian to see now so clearly how his own behaviour all those years ago must have affected his family. Perhaps he shouldn’t have yelled at them but it’s exactly what I’d have ended up doing and maybe his words will make a difference, even if it’s not anytime soon.
Ugh, I don’t even want to think about those bones. Ah, and there’s a missing boy! I’m still wondering what he did, because it’s beginning to look like all he did was run away. Which is perfectly understandable and probably the best thing to do, although he might feel ashamed for doing so. The poor thing could have seen his father killed. He must have used his arrows for something, though...
I’m dying now to see what happens with Rodda. And for Eilian and the gang to go home. And for Thranduil to confront the merchant. Oh, wait – I forgot again that I was going to relax and just let things happen and not get too tense…
I’ll be here serenely awaiting the next chapter whenever you’re ready…;-)
Author's reply
When I wrote this chapter, I hoped that at least the E3 and Rodda parts of the puzzle would snap together. I don't think there's a lot of this story left really because it's all supposed to sort itself out soon.
I think that Thranduil and most older elves would be kind of weighed down by the history they've seen. Thranduil is rethinking his relations with men here because his sons are doing it, and they don't have that burden.
I thought Amdir and the neighbor were a hoot, actually. How would you like to live next door to that family? I feel so bad for poor Turgon! I created his parents and now I want to strangle them or at least sic the Elf Child Welfare Society on them.
I'm thinking that Nimloth is still around some, but Legolas is in the hands of the weapon's masters in the mornings and his tutor in the afternoon, so she probably does running-the-household kinds of things. She was probably the one who told the steward that Legolas needed new clothes. And yes,I suspect that the adults know more than Legolas thinks they do about exactly what clothes he has.
My beta is Nilmandra, and she's written about the twins and has a quite different take on them than I do, which made negotiating this chapter interesting! I think that the twins are right about some of the things they tell Eilian: the men were having trouble; there were few enough orcs that they were not in much danger. But they also should have left the battle decisions to Eilian. He really upset most because of his own feelings, I think, what the twins made him feel. So he chews them out. And frankly, I don't think it hurt them and it might help. They're fun to write about in this kind of story because they feel very mysterious to me. :-)
Ithilden appreciates your support. He doesn't have enough fans!
Brazgirl
· 22 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
What a great battle scene! One of the firsts I could actually picture it vivid on my mind. I guess that human is not going to have a good meeting with Thranduil. And Turgon, Legolas' friends... as always you make them so real! He sounded just like my brother when he was at this age and had not done homework... Thranduil's reaction to that greedy talk was very funny.
Author's reply
I'm glad you liked it. Battle scenes are hard to write. You have to make them realistic and suprising somehow, but really it seems to me that the thing that matters most is the emotional reactions of the people in them.
Thranduil is kind of weighed down by his long history, while his sons are thinking about things without his experience but also without his baggage.
Karri
· 22 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
I can imagine that remembering Doriath would indeed be a painful thing for Thranduil. That was a nice touch. :-) Ai! Amdir, I see, was always the bane of Legolas's existence, and there I was thinking that didn't start until Sinnarn befriended him. ;-) Terrific chapter!
Author's reply
History must weigh heavily on older elves, who have learned from experience but then have to learn to forget some things too, I think. This stuff is still alive for them.
Amdir made me laugh, even while I was writing about him. He says he's going off orc hunting and the neighbor dodges a stick in the eye and says, "That will be nice." I'll bet! LOL
Nelsonia
· 22 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
Hi Daw
let me just say that you made my day! It was great te see an update first thing monday morning! RL is pretty hectic but I have been following your story very closely and I love it! You have won a place in the acknowledgements of my thesis since you helped make my Phd time such a good one! Hope you dont mind!
Great chapter, but "Legolas has grown enough that he needs new ones, but he could probably wait three months until the new supply of silk arrives." really got to me, i never thought that the steward was the one taking care of such details as Legolas's need for new clothes, it made me sad that in spite of all the love there is around him these little details that Naneth would have taken care of are now in someone else's hands... and not even Nimloth's..dont know if this makes sense...
Hope you all have a good week, I love reading everyone's reviews!
take care Nelsonia
Author's reply
I am so flattered to be in your acknowledgements that I can't stand it! :-) :-)
I thought of that about Legolas's clothes too. Poor baby. He needs a mother. I suspect it was Nimloth who told the steward about Legolas needing clothes, but still, while these people are fond of him, they don't love him and care for him as a mother would. It's sad.
This is a holiday week in the US. Thanksgiving is on Thursday, so I'm having company come to stay and I'm cooking a turkey and a bunch of other stuff. I'm not sure how much time I'll have to write, but I'll need some. It's so much fun.
Thanks again for the acknowledgement thing.
daw
Bodkin
· 22 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
Perhaps Eilian should introduce the twins to Tinar. He has a tendency to leap from trees too early, as I recall, because he is too arrogant to see why he should work with his patrol and thinks he knows best on all occasions.
Elladan may not have been happy with Eilian's words, but he was right. Perhaps they need some home truths now - it might take that to penetrate their thick wall of misery. It hasn't done Eilian any harm to see himself in their battle lust, either. Might have helped him continue to move on from his own loss. (Good for Maltanaur. What an elf.)
Well, the identity of the boy is now known - and his reason for being on his own in the woods. And, short of him inviting the orcs to tea, I don't really see how he could be blamed for anything other than running - which, with orcs behind you, is probably excusable even to men of very little brain. I can see Legolas's idea has some merit - but 50 leagues of forest? On his own? With three arrows? I don't think so. And he will be found in Legolas's clothes . . I think suspicions might head the way of the three amigos.
Turgon seems to have lost interest in Rodda a bit. He is developing his avoidance techniques - deliberate failure is more attractive that trying to succeed and not getting there. Poor elfling. However well-meaning, his parents need kicking. (Couldn't he get the injured elf to help? After all he is currently sitting at home recuperating and turning a deaf ear to Amdir. The 'smile and nod' technique of listening to children.)
Legolas is right - Elu Thingol did commit hari kiri with that dratted Silmaril. I was thinking about them the other day and came to the conclusion that, while not evil in themselves, they led to nothing but disaster - 'for the love of Silmarils is the root of all evil' - to misquote a famous text. Not what you would see if you were there though, probably. History is so much clearer with lots of evidence and retrospect - yet that is what the more ancient elves can't develop. They were there - and the wounds remain fresh. So much easier to blame the dwarves than the holy jewel - yet everything those Silmarils touched turned to ashes. (Glad to see Thranduil admitting to himself that it takes all sorts among all sentient races. Though I'm not sure he includes dwarves there. Yet.)
That cloth merchant seems to be rather more than an opportunist. I have my suspicions that he has more to do with the attack on the raft than he would want Thranduil to know about. Suspicious that he should have on hand exactly what the elves need.
Author's reply
Eilian has learned some things from watching the twins. I don't know if they've learned anything at this second, but you never know the effect something might have, even if it's further down the road when people are finally ready to think about what you said. Actually, there's research showing this is true in the teaching of writing. At the end of first year composition, the students might not show they've learned much, but then they often recall those things and practice them over the next bit of time.
Poor Turgon. I'm ticked off at his parents and I made them up. As for the raft elf, I'm not sure I would want to live next door to Turgon and Amdir. I could just imagine Amdir waving that stick in the face of this still-ailing elf, and him thinking that Amdir going off on an Orc hunt would indeed be "nice."
When Thingol starts to lust after the Silmarils, that's when it becomes clear that it's not just the sons of Feanor who are demented here. The damned things are really cursed. Well, I guess literally they're cursed. Manwe did an excellent job of that.
You are so clever, Bodkin.
The Karenator
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
So what's up with Turgon and his arrows? He seems awfully peculiar about them.
The lunch discussion was interesting. Thranduil had a little moment of insight when he finally admitted that elves are not always perfect either. Of course, he has a right to think ill of the merchant. Nice that he realized that not all men should be judged by one.
So the boy is one of the missing men. There are two ways to look at this: They don't know the kid is alive so he can start over, and the other is that whatever he did was not bad enough for anyone to mention, so the men might just be glad that he's alive. I don't think traveling all the way to the western border alone is a particularly good idea. I see signs of this little escapade coming unraveled.
And the fight scene...excellent. The twins didn't go off like loose canons, but they did sort of tick Eilian off. I really like what he said to them. “You are presumptuous,” Elladan said coldly. I so wanted Eilian to say: "And you are reckless." That would be such a pot calling the kettle black moment. Of course, he had already more or less told them that they were not exactly playing on the team. He got his point across.
I'm looking forward to seeing how you straighten out this mess of elves and men. Very good chapter.
Karen
Author's reply
Turgon can't finish his arrows by himself and has decided to declare that he just doesn't care. I feel sorry for him and want to smack his parents, even though I created them.
Elves might like to think that they're very different from men, but in essential ways, I don't think they are. The Silmarillion makes that pretty clear. And Thranduil is struggling out from under the weight of history to learn that too.
I think that Legolas agrees with you about the foolishness of their plans for Rodda. He just hasn't decided what to do about it yet.
Eilian is in a bizarre position here: he is watching other people do what he usually does and finds he doesn't like it one bit. Thranduil and Ithilden would be so pleased!
Firnsarnien
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
Whew! What a chappy! I'm actually surprised Elladan and Elrohir didn't do anything foolish until the battle started. I thought they'd lose their heads although they kind of did during the battle. And I'm so glad Eilian told them a thing or two. Personally, I thought he should have told them more and I think he would have if he hadn't been interrupted. The twins certainly needed to hear it and Eilian was the perfect one to tell them. After all, he should know. His mother died while their mother only went to Valinor. It must still be hard for them but at least they will see her again. Poor Eilian and his family must wait until Mandos decides to release their mother, if he ever does. But, I guess they are still too grieved to think clearly right now. And seeing things through Eilian's eyes is the last thing they want to do right now.
I also think Eilian was pretty shook up that he enjoyed killing those orcs so much. It was almost as if he was back to being that reckless Elf he was right after his mother died. He had that blood lust running through his veins and I think it scared him. Especially because he knows how devastated Legolas would be if anything happened to him. At this point in his life, I don't think Legolas could handle losing anyone else that he loves. Especially Eilian, it would push him right over the edge. And losing control, even for an instant, really shook Eilian up.
I was pretty nervous that someone was going to get seriously wounded. I'm actually glad to see they all pulled out of it unscathed! ;)
Now Leggy, hmmmmm. I wonder just how much the cooks are buying his lame excuses of being so hungry lately. Surely, they know something is up.
Ah ha! At last, we find out who Rodda is. Why doesn't he want to go back though, I wonder? The men looking for him seemed pretty disappointed they didn't find him. I smell a tale behind all this! :)
And yes, I guess I am an angst hound! LOL But really, can you blame me? After all, Eilian and Legolas make such wonderful targets...er, I mean, they are just such lovable Elves that you can't help but want to smother them with love and affection, Ithilden too. And what better way to do it than when they have a few owies...ok, ok, BIG owies! LOL *sigh-holds out hand so author can smack it* I guess I deserve that for wanting our beautiful Elves to get hurt, huh? LOLOLOL!
Can't wait for an update, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait! Hurry, hurry, hurry!
Author's reply
I've been trying to decide if it would be worse to have your mother be murdered suddenly (as happened to Lorellin) or to have her be tormented, suffer for a year, and then choose to leave you (as happened to Celebrian). Truly, I don't think this is easy for the twins, and their mother has only been gone a short time. But I do think you're right that hearing Eilian might help them in the long run. And he needed to say what he did, if only for his own sake. He needed to remind himself that he didn't want to be that way again. And you're right. Legolas is an anchor for him, a commitment he won't shirk, if you will.
Boys Legolas's age are often hungry because they're growing, but Legolas is probably pushing his luck about the food. He and his buddies can't do this for too much longer.
No big owies in this story, I think, Firnsarnien. At least not for Legolas or Eilian. But they're struggling with the hurts of others such as Rodda and the twins. You'll just have to be satisfied with that, I'm afraid.
Nilmandra
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
I like the change about Doriath - the insight that Thranduil had about the elves was a good touch. It is sad that deception and treachery happen in all races, though we would all like to think that people 'like us' would never do that.
Eilian's reaction to the twins was fascinating. He is very young, and seems to be projecting how he felt and reacted when his naneth died on to them. He can't know their normal style of fighting or the limitations of men, and he is too young to have the insight needed. Which of course makes Maltanaur all the more valuable. Yes, I love Maltanaur. What can I say. :-)
Author's reply
When I got into this, I decided that I would stay out of the twins' heads and see them only from outside. Mostly what I'm interested in here is their effect on Thranduil and his sons. So that's what you see, and Eilian is wrong in some of his judgments. The Men really were having trouble in the dark in this kind of fight, for instance. But also, Eilian was the captain of this little venture. The twins' decision might be the right one but, as another reviewer says, it's not theirs to make. So take that, you twin lover you!
esamen
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
Hello again! Goodness, these new updates are just flying out. You must really have the story on your heart.
**********************
“You are very sure of yourself,” Elladan observed, “but the Orcs were escaping, and the Men were having trouble seeing their targets. There were not so many of them left that engaging was foolish, and surely Elrohir and I were the only ones in any danger.”
“The Orcs were going nowhere that we could not find them,” Eilian cried, “and I am sure of myself for a reason. Moreover, let me tell you something else: I have been where you are now, and, in the long run, it occurred to me that I was being a selfish ass. Is your family ready for more loss? I assure you that mine was not! Your naneth has chosen to try to heal, to be happy again. You might consider doing the same.”
I really, really like what you are doing with the twins. They are developing personalities in a very intriguing way. I like it that they are not flat super-hero type characters. They are coming off the page as real people, full of emotion and bad judgement. Pretty good job, considering how few lines Tolkien gives us to work with! You are giving them room to make mistakes, learn and grow. I hope this means that we'll see them in another story as well. They can be humbled and it will be so intriguing.
****************
“Let them be, Eilian. They are old enough to work this out for themselves. And even if it takes them a while, that does not change the fact that you have chosen to go on with your life.”
Eilian nodded but said nothing. Perhaps the fury of the twins belonged to them and not to him, but he had felt its alluring embrace. Maltanaur was right. He needed to leave them alone.
Wow! the "toxic twins" ? Now you are REALLY giving them room to grow. So, not all Elves are noble all the time, huh? Living proof right here.
I like all the contrasts about them -- awesome warriors, grieving sons, friends of men, wrongheaded princes. (Did I remember to say glamorous? Or can that go as understood, by now?) I hope that Mithrandir or Eilian or Maltanaur or Thranduil or someone can make a chink in their armor. Elladan's armor, anyway. Too bad Bilbo isn't on the scene. He could hop right up there, all unaware and unintimidated, and make a hobbity speech full of common sense to save the day.
Seriously, though, this is a wonderful theme of grief and recovery that gives the story great beauty and depth. Signature daw! Fabulous! Thank you! on to the next chapter of adventure!
Actually, I'll be out of town 11/23 through 11/30, so I probably won't be around to read your next chapters until December 1. But don't let that slow you down. I'll be ready for a good long visit to Lasgalen when I get back.
Esamen
Author's reply
When I started on the previous chapter, I could see what had to happen for the rest of the story very clearly and have it outlined in detail, so it was quick writing, except for the battle. There's not much more of it, actually. Of course, this week I have company and have to cook a turkey, so I'm not sure how much time I'll have to write anyway.
In my opinion, the twins do eventually go on to regain their balance. They continue hunting orcs, but that's not so bad. It's not what they're doing that's hurting them; it's what's in their hearts when they do it. And I think there's 2500 years of loving family life underneath there, so I expect their hearts come right in the long run.
Have a good holiday! See you when you get back.
elliska
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
I would really like to see that conversation between the merchant and Thranduil. I would be willing to bet that he will be very cooperative and sympathetic and reasonable. Very suddenly. :) I loved it when Thranduil said he would not be robbed twice--too right!
I also liked Legolas' thoughts on Elu Thingol. That could be nothing but a difficult topic for Thranduil for more reasons than you could list but I think it's one his sons would naturally ask about. And it would be hard for them not to make comparisons between Elu Thingol (or any king they are learning about--but especially the High King of the Sindar) and Thranduil. And that could not be comfortable either.
Thranduil and Mithrandir's exchange about men was interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing where Thranduil comes out on men by the end of this--holding them in better stead, worse or unchanged. I definitely agree with you that Thranduil could see them as nothing but unpredictable/unreliable and all too often none too scrupulous. He would have seen that often enough in a few thousand years.
Legolas and that boy--he'd better not give away too many of his clothes given the cloth situation. And that boy will never make it all the way west. That situation is obviously about to blow up. But fortunately it sounds like he will be a welcome find to the men who obviously don't think he deserted. But still he has nothing to go home to. So sad and the elves' reactions are perfect.
Eilian was in fine form. The twins might have thought they were making the best decision, but decisions weren't theirs to make. I loved Eilian's reaction both to the lack of obediance and to their recklessness and how he recognizes himself in it. And I think it's interesting that it disturbs him. He doesn't get over his own recklessness truly for some time after this fic but he definitely sees it. I like his comment about staying safe for Legolas.
Great chapter. 'Setting plans in motion' indeed. A lot happened in this one.
Author's reply
As it happens, I have plans for you to see that conversation between the king and the merchant, so that works out.
I've seen lots of folks talk about how different elves and men are, and in some ways that's right. But when you read the Silm, you see that they're not so different in some very unfortunate ways. And Thranduil would have seen it all. Because this story is about the relations between Thranduil and men, it's relevant here that he's thinking about these things, partly because his sons are thinking about them without the weight of history.
The kids are in deep and need help.
That's a good point that even if the twins' decision was a good one, they shouldn't have made it. I'm interested in the sons of Elrond, but really in this story, I've been trying to concentrate on the effect they have on the sons of Thranduil. I think Eilian clings to the idea of Legolas as someone who wants to see him come home. That's obvious and simple to him, in a way his more complicated relations with his father and Ithilden are not.
Glad you liked it. I'm so glad the battle scene is over!
meckinock
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
What? I meant to say Legolas learning from his tutors, not Eilian. Just because my mind was on Eilian at the time...
Author's reply
Eilian knows what's on your mind! ;-)
meckinock
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
I meant Legolas, of course.
Author's reply
The hell you did.
meckinock
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
Gandalf and Thranduil's exchange about Thingol was interesting. It's not greed to covet something to the point of obsesssion as long as you do it solely out of appreciation for its beauty. Some rationalization. Thank goodness Eilian has tutors teaching him history and not his dad. And Gandalf seems to put the king off-balance - guess he's not used to being around someone he doesn't outrank.
So Eilian thought his instructions were understood? Yup. Clear as day. Thanks for sharing, Eilian. For supposedly being more accustomed to fighting alongside Men than the Mirkwood Elves, the twins are remarkably unconcerned about how their actions affect others on the field of battle. Could have gotten someone killed, indeed. Hmmm. Makes you wonder....Nah. Surely not.
The whole thing was worth it just to see Eilian appalled. Didn't think the boy had it in him. Eilian is going to be all right. The twins? I can't wait to see.
Author's reply
Gandalf is good for Thranduil. He's not afraid of the king and Thranduil respects him and values him. Thranduil is learning. He's slow, but he learns, as Eilian once said about himself (and I can't remember in which story now). I think his honesty eventually comes through.
Now Eilian has just had his eyes opened. He loves the twins. They're his kind of warriors. But they just scared the wits out of him; or more acurately, they just made him scare the wits out of himself. I think the twins were actually pretty certain they could wipe out the remainins orcs. A bunch were dead by then. Always assuming that they weren't hit by friendly fire, of course.
Alice
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
Oooh. Good chapter. That battle scene was great! Very exciting. I loved the strategy bit of it too. They had those orcs penned like pigs.
I have to admit, I forgot about the coming battle when I was reading about the activities in the Mirkwood capitol. Mirkwoods seems like such a tiny kingdom when you think that really there's only one city (Thranduil's stronghold) and it's fairly small, and a bunch of settlements.
I loved the scene with Thranduil thinking about Thingol. He had a breakthrough! Yay! That's the elven king I love. The scene with him and his advisor was really funny. I suspect that the advisor has worked with Thranduil for a long time. I love how he was relunctant to give Thranduil the merchant's name. The advisor is suspicious of Thranduil's motives, and probably rightly so.
I do wish the boys would tell someone about Rodda. It really is too bad that Eilian isn't there at the moment, because they would tell him. Sometimes a situation calls for an adult presence. And while it would be scary to have to inform Thranduil or Ithilden that they're hiding a human boy in an abandoned cottage, Eilian is less intimidating. Though he probably would inform Thranduil of what's going on, but that's really what should happen anyway. And we now know more about Rodda. That poor kid. No wonder he got sick, he saw his own father murdered.
So, the battle scene with Eilian, masterful. Just general excellence. The action flowed nicely and the whole thing with Eilian being on edge because of E2 was done brilliantly. Turns out Thranduil was right about trying to keep E2 away from Eilian. I'm glad Eilian realized that they're not good for him. They needed to be told that they're being selfish asses. They need to go home. And they could have gotten someone killed by their little improvisation! They know better. Glorfindel would have a thing or two to say to them.
I look forward to the next chapter. Hopefully there will be one up by the time I come back from New Jersey. I get to go and see my cousins. Have a happy Thanksgiving!
Author's reply
The Elven kingdoms are all pretty small by the Third Age, I think. Consider Rivendell. It's tiny. And Lothlorien is not huge either. Thranduil probably has the most territory but he doesn't have control over it all.
Thranduil is learning about men too, just like Eilian and Legolas are. He's a clever elf and his advisor is right to think that Thranduil has something on his mind.
Rodda must have had a very tough time, and if the boys don't tell someone about him soon, he'll have an even rougher one. Poor kid.
I'm glad you liked the battle scene. I find them hard to write and this one was tricky because I wanted the emotional stuff with Eilian in particular. I'm interested in the twins but mostly as they affect Thranduil's sons. Glorfindel would not have put up with that move for a second!
Have a good Thanksgiving too. Enjoy yourself!
sofia
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
I'm so used to seeing Eilian as the joking big brother that I forgot just how he can act in battle and in anger.
-sofia
Author's reply
Eilian is capable of being a real warrior when he chooses to be, and he's also a captain, which means he usually can intimidate troops. But the twins are not to be intimidated at all. They're much more experienced than he is and not at all impressed when he does his Ithilden impression.
perelleth
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
Go you! Two chapters in a day (for me!!!)I've been unexpectedly rewarded it seems. Since I'm up waiting for an e-mail from overseas, I can as well thank such a prolific and kind author!
So!Rodda is the other missing body.. but then, these men do not seem overworried about him, and the poor boy is about to set out for a fifty-league trip on his own!!! Gods! somebody has to stop him! (Maybe little Amdir with his big mouth will give a hand?) Communication (lack of) seems to be always the issue with young kids.. he is afraid of having done sth. terrible, and the other boys are hiding him for they think it is the best thing for him. Sigh! Hope he finds a nice place where he fits in...
"...they are kind when they can afford to be" I very much like this sentence, it so clearly describes a certain type of life in difficult conditions... when being kind is truly a luxury, not always a choice. Very precise.
Mithrandir, as everybody else, seems to be tiptoeing around Thranduil, I like the way everything seems to revolve around him, his opinions and his moods. He must be fuming today about men. and ..Doriath is not the most appropiate subject to bring along at lunch!!! No wonder he kept his people to themselves for so long in that forest... that was among the deeds of the Age I consider!
Thanks again and good week! :)
Author's reply
The men still think that Rodda is dead. Poor kid. He and the Terrible Trio are all in way over their heads and need help. They just don't know enough to ask for it.
I thought that thing about being kind when you could afford to was sadly true.
I think that Mithrandir is capable of telling Thranduil the truth, but Ithilden and Legolas are both tiptoeing a little, Ithilden because he just quarreled with Thranduil about having the Men as allies and sending Eilian off with the twins, and Legolas because he has a secret. But Thranduil needs to think about Doriath and the mixed record of elves too. Then he might be a little more relaxed about men.
Have a good holiday.
rikwen
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
I am so glad that you updated before the holidays. That way I can wait on the next chapter and not worry on what is happening.
It is amazing sometimes what small ones will prattle on about in all innocence and no one will realize that they are repeating what they have heard or seen. But let Eilian or Maltanaur hear Amdir and the reaction could turn out to be quite different than what the raft elf did. I feel sorry for Rodda. Fifty leagues to travel to a strange village - alone and with very little in provisions and weapons. A knife and three arrows will not go far in protecting him from orcs. I think Legolas is very aware of the danger and is at the point of asking for help from someone. Hopefully, Eilian will be home soon.
Your battle between the elves, men and orcs was very telling. Eilian sounded very mature when he realized he liked the battle rage he was feeling but he didn't want to disappoint Legolas by getting hurt or killed. Most of the time he acts like an adrenalin junkie, but here he was aware of the danger he was in and he definitely had no desire to visit the Halls of Mandos! I felt the twins almost caused a major faux pas. They pulled off that early attack by using their skill with the swords but I think it could have gone either way if the men had not been able to hold their own. It was very very lucky that only one man was injured. Hopefully, one day Elledan and Elrohir will be able to put their rage behind them and see that living is worth more than trying to wipe orcs off the face of Arda.
Author's reply
I actually thought the raft elf probably meant what he said when he responded "That will be nice" to Amdir's claim that he was going orc hunting. LOL. I don't know that I'd want to live next door to Turgon and Amdir.
I think Eilian's love for Legolas does anchor him a bit. He knows his family would be devastated by losing him, and sees that most clearly in Legolas. He probably enjoys the thrill of battle most of the time, but this time he was just a little over the edge.
The twins can go on killing orcs if they want to. They just have to be able to go home and feel some pleasure in their life too (pleasure other than killing orcs).
Duchess
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
I really enjoyed this one. You made me sooooo glad to see Eilian is mature enough to recognize the fault in himself now and I found myself wanting to back him up in regards to the twins and their attitudes. That was very thoughtless of them!
Oh dear, that boy alone in the forest? Not a good thing, I don't care if the Elflings manage to get him more arrows or not. Baaaaaad idea!
And I'm SO glad that Elf paid no attention to Amdir's ramblings. LOL
More please?
Author's reply
Eilian is keeping hold of himself, even if it's just barely. I think the twins probably could have handled the remaining Orcs reasonably, but they did surprise Eilian and that's not good in a battle.
The elflings need help! They're just digging themselves deeper and deeper.
Thank you, Duchess.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 8: Setting Plans in Motion
I take it that the missing child is Rodda? Perhaps he feels he deserted if he ran away from the orcs. But the men with Eilian and the twins seem to care about him, so perhaps he can return to Esgaroth with them. I suspect that sooner or later someone will hear what Amdir is prattling about, and then he'll be discovered.
I liked the battle scene, but it was over too quickly. I'm not that surprised that the twins broke cover too soon for Eilian's liking, but they fought well enough to satisfy him. I liked the description of them fighting together.
And well done Eilian! I loved him telling the twins off for wallowing in their grief - he's right, Celebrían has the chance of happiness, so they can take it too.
Jay
Author's reply
Good guess, Jay. Amdir made me laugh, I have to admit. I liked the image of him waving the stick around and telling a truth no one would believe.
The battle was over too quickly? Geez. I had to lie down afterwards. I find battle scenes hard to write. I liked balancing the twins and Eilian off against one another. They are much more experienced than he is in most ways, but not in what counts right now.
perelleth
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 7: Seeking a Hiding Place
Woa!!! such a quick update! That's a pleasure I tell you!!!!
Mmm As I've said before, I'm not fully acquainted with your characters and settings (I've just decided that a cronological approach is the most sensible thing so I'm slowly catching up..) but there are some things I'm finding most... interesting in this story:
First, it seems the king is wary of men: nothing to be surprised at, since he is Thranduil Oropherion... he was at Dagorlad and we can assume he even was in Doriath.. so.. no one would expect him to be fond of men (nor dwarves, nor noldorin or half noldorin elves by the way) What it is a surprise (in the good sense) is that none of his sons seem to be prejudiced about them: Ithilden is outraged by the whole affair and wants to help the men while clearing the forest, Eilian seems to be eager to make alliances and Legolas is.... about adopting a human child!!! I'm looking forward to seeing how this father/king confronts that situation!!!!!Good Thranduil!!!
Second, I said before that I would not be in Maltanaur's shoes for anything but now I correct myself: it is Eilian I do pity... Everybody seems to be expecting chaos ensuing this mission.. I take it he's been a captain for a short time, and then putting him in command of these two unchained-unknown- mad-war machines is... well not an easy appointment. He seems to notice the twins are not going to follow his command if it doesn't suit their wills and that can be a deep blow for his pride and self esteem.. I hope he comes out of it with some feathers left. His own assessment of the situation shows him as more mature than what the rest credit him to be... so Go Eilian! I expect he'll learn a thing or two when this is over..
The kids! I'm mightily amusing myself with their part... so full of good intentions they're getting deeper and deeper into trouble without noticing, as it is common with kids... poor things, I cannot wait to see them, eyes open wide when everything comes out and the adults roar in panic at what could have happened...
So, we have the raft attacked, orcs behaving a bit strangely, two bodies missing and a human child in uniform... I cannot imagine how all this is connected, so I´ll sit comfortably and enjoy the way your are feeding us with so many trails... I just would like to see the Men coming up with something useful and showing the wood elves they are valuable neighbours...
Great job depicting the twins at this stage! there seems to be a cold breeze chilling everybody around them!!!!
Greedily waiting for more ;)
Author's reply
I'm an unnaturally fast updater. The next chapter is almost ready now. It's embarrassing, actually. Reading the stories in chronology by Legolas's age makes as much sense as anything, I guess, although I didn't write them in that order. Please forgive my earliest stories when you find them. I don't think you'll have any trouble at all recognizing them!
This story is supposed to be about the relations of Thranduil and his family with Men. By the time of The Hobbit, the men of Esgaroth say that the Elvenking is their friends. So my question is how he got to be that way. I'm trying to show him softening up over time. I think his sons are without the weight of history that he bears, and that's a limitation but also an advantage.
Eilian is doing quite well, given what he has on his hands. I'd have to go back and look up when he became a captain, but in Elven terms, it's not long, particularly given the experience of the twins. I think Thranduil in particular is quite prone to underestimating Eilian, which he finds painful.
And the elflings are in so far over their heads they can't see daylight and don't know it yet. LOL. Good intentions matched with very limited experience and judgement.
Thank you for your kind words. Experimenting with the twins is fun!
thechevin
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 7: Seeking a Hiding Place
A very powerful chapter that sort of crept up on me a bit like elves after orc.
I found the whole episode of Eilian and the twins very unsettling which I am sure was the point.
Maltanaur has his work cut out for him I think although Eilian is doing well as commander and can see how grief and a desire for vengeance in the twins has dulled their senses to the point where they could be a danger to themselves and others and he relates to that feeling very well
and the elflings are having no better time of it all that responsibilty and no one to tell about it
Excellent
Author's reply
I'm smiling, Judy, because "unsettling" is indeed what I was after. I knew I could narrate the events. It's the emotional tone that's hard to catch. In my opinion, Eilian is doing quite well. I think the twins have been made selfish in their grief. I've seen that when someone is just overwhelmed with their own problems. But there's good stuff underneath. They'll right themselves eventually.
The elflings are starting to notice that this boy is an even bigger problem than the mice were!
Brazgirl
· 21 November 2004
· Chapter 7: Seeking a Hiding Place
Elladan sounds like trouble for me... he will do something impulsive, will he not?
Eilian was doing so good so far! Until the twins felt the presence of the orcs. No,no, they should hear their commander! Very interesting the way you pointed out Eilian's thought, especially when he was surprised the twins did not hear the trees.
Author's reply
The twins are interesting to me. I think they have hundreds of years of experience as warriors under Glorfindel, so they're well-trained and disciplined. But they're not themselves right now. So I have to decide which aspect of them comes to the fore: the underlying history or the current emotional state. It's tricky to decide which is more realistic.
Bodkin
· 20 November 2004
· Chapter 7: Seeking a Hiding Place
Thanks Dot and daw. My question now is - what happened to Mrs Earilas?
Author's reply
Geez. I don't know. I think it's a surprise! Yes, that's it. We will all be surprised!
Dot
· 20 November 2004
· Chapter 7: Seeking a Hiding Place
Curiouser and curiouser. Everyone is behaving in a decidedly odd manner and making me feel far too tense!
Oh, before I forget… In quiet moments at work this morning I decided to flick through some of your old reviews – something I hardly ever do but which is actually quite fun! – and at some point Bodkin asked the name of Siondel’s adar. Maybe she found out afterwards ‘cos I didn’t get very far in reading through them, but it’s Eärilas anyway. In “One Year in Mirkwood” he and Eilian go to Esgaroth and Eilian introduces him as “Siondel Eärilasion”.
Anyway, back to the matter at hand… Amdir knows Rodda is there?! Turgon seems very relaxed about it but I don’t know. Their mother seems very indulgent of her children so she could well accompany him there. Then again, she might just feel inclined to feed him if she discovered him… At least Legolas seems to be realising that what might have seemed logical at first may not actually be the best solution after all. And Annael doesn’t seem too thrilled with the situation either, even though he does seem happy enough to have someone to take care of. He should have had a younger sibling. I wonder what Thranduil would think if he knew Legolas thought he wouldn’t care how the men would react if he sent the boy back. I don’t think Thranduil is that dismissive of men, although I can see why Legolas would think so. I would have thought that while Rodda’s presence would certainly pose problems for Thranduil and Ithilden (and they’d be fairly displeased with Legolas), they’d be more likely to be appalled that he was being kept in that house and not cared for properly while in their realm. Granted, he’d then be sent back quick smart but not into trouble if they could help it.
“I’ve done something bad. They would hang me.” Yikes! They’d hang him?? What on earth has he done? Hopefully something not as awful as he thinks. It’s rather a harsh lesson in the ways of the world for the elflings to hear too.
The entire piece with Eilian and co. was just fascinating. It’s so interesting to watch Eilian figure out what to do. He seemed very aware, though, that there was only so far he could command Elladan and Elrohir before they decided to do things their own way. It’s amazing too all the little differences that emerge. I mean, Eilian is unsure of men in general and is still trying to suss out Elladan and Elrohir, the men are probably just uneasy around elves but unaware of the two very different races of elves standing in front of them, while the twins are likely gauging what the wood-elves would do and thought that they were used to men but have just realised that this lot are much different than the Rangers they know. And poor Maltanaur must be wondering what he ever did to Thranduil to end up with this job. Although, I bet he feels a teensy bit of satisfaction that Eilian has found himself in charge of not one but two headstrong and angry elves who are feeling a little bit reckless.
I like that at least the twins know more about the customs of men and help Eilian realise how important it is to them to retrieve the bodies if at all possible. Legolas isn’t the only one learning about the ways of men.
“Those two strike me as a very bad mix of you and Ithilden at your worst.” Blunt but right, as ever. It shows how far Eilian has come from his own period of grief that he can see it too. He really has a tough job here, leading all these different people. And it must be an absolute pain not being able to read the twins as easily as he’d need to. Plus he knows he can’t push them because he’s felt what they’re feeling now. Though it must be hard for Elladan and Elrohir too to try and work with a captain who’s used to leading warriors who fight from the trees.
Yes, Ithilden is clever! Eilian should tell him that!
I was wondering how good the twins would be in the trees. I suppose all elves would be comfortable in them to some degree but I do like that they aren’t as at home in them as wood-elves and can’t really hear their voices either. It’s a bit worrying that they come racing back when they think Eilian has found something. If they don’t hear the sounds of fighting I imagine there’s no need to rush recklessly through the trees, which makes me think that at least some of their training has been forgotten in their eagerness to dispose of the Orcs. Scary. Especially for their poor captain.
It must have been so hard for Eilian not to attack the Orcs when they’re right there in front of him. Of all the elves in Arda to have to play this waiting game, these three are not the ones I’d have chosen. And the thing is, they’re all completely justified in wanting to kill the Orcs so I couldn’t really blame them if anyone snapped. But for now their training and common sense seems to be winning. The biggest problem could be if one of them breaks under the pressure. What would the others do then?
The Orcs really are behaving strangely. Did Orcs work with the Balchoth at all? It’s just all a little odd. There’s such a sense of tension here. It’s like the Orcs and the men are checking each other out, waiting to see who’ll make the first move. But if these are scouts, why did they attack the patrol of men? I’m just hoping that it wasn’t Rodda’s fault somehow… This is all so exciting! I have to know what’s going on. And while I’m not normally very fond of battle scenes, I can’t wait to see this one!
Ah, and Elladan has reached the end of what he can endure of humouring Eilian. I suppose what he says does make sense, though. And surely the twins have enough restraint to wait until the Orcs emerge from the cave… I guess I’ll just have to wait and see. But not too long, right…?! :-)
Author's reply
Holy cow, Dot. I'd forgotten I'd ever named Siondel's father. I'll have to tell Bodkin.
I think that Thranduil is fairly indifferent to what anyone thinks of him except as it affects the safety and well-being of his people. So I think he'd deal with Rodda as he sees best and say to Mordor with anyone who disagreed. But that caveat -- the well-being of his people -- could come into play here, I suppose. We'll see. :-)
Your summary of things in the Eilian/twins/men alliance is a good one. They're all figuring one another out (and so am I!). This story is supposed to be about Thranduil's relations with Men, and all of Thranduil's sons are learning. Let's see if the Elvenking himself does. He needs to be friends with the Men by the time of The Hobbit.
I'm still trying to figure out if the twins count as elves! Tolkien never calls them that. I'm really feeling my way along here. I just decided that whatever else they are, they're not wood-elves.
And you're so right that these three are not cut out to watch Orcs all day and not attack. But they did it, which is a credit to their training, their sympathy with the Men, and their absolute confidence that the Orcs will be toast whenever they do decide to attack.
Somewhere in the reading I did for this story, it says that the Orcs cooperated with the Balchoth, so I was thinking of that here. I thought they might have attacked the patrol just become one or more of them lost their heads and saw easy pickings. Sort of like what the twins are tempted to do!