Nilmandra
· 24 September 2004
· Chapter 39: Getting Physical
I think Celebrian and Galadriel will draw a huge crowd! and - no one will mess with them after that :D
Author's reply
Would anyone dare mess with Galadriel BEFORE that?
It would be interesting to see the reactions of the different groups - immigrants from Arda might respond with less shock than those who have spend ages perfecting their accomplishments in Valinor. Who would be more shocked - males or females? Would the elves of Lothlorien back them up as heroines, while those of Imladris would tut at them? I'll bet a lot of people would find the behaviour tolerable in them because they are the daughter and granddaughter of the High King and the Ladies of Lothlorien and Imladris - in the same way that behaviour that is criminally shocking in common folk is delightful eccentricity in the wealthy and powerful.
elliska
· 24 September 2004
· Chapter 39: Getting Physical
Bodkin, I could not resist a reply to your reply: If you write a chapter with Thranduil and Galadriel sparing, I will pay you to read it! I love the way you write those two and that is too funny to contemplate. I'm not sure what would be funnier: the lead up to the sparring match (how would that challenge come about) or the aftermath when one of them lost to the other. That would be so hard to write but soooo funny. :)
Author's reply
That sounds like a challenge!
I'll have to let it ferment for a bit and see if it could work. But you're right - it is too funny to contemplate.
Maybe. I'll say no more than that!!
Ellie
· 23 September 2004
· Chapter 39: Getting Physical
I loved the concept of the son watching his ada and being proud of him and inspired by him. I also like the idea of Celebrian and Galadriel getting involved in teaching the girls.
Keep the little story bits coming!
Author's reply
They should get involved, shouldn't they. It's not that I think all female elves could fight - but Galadriel could, and I can't imagine her bringing Celebrian up to be all girly.
It's good to involve the families and have the wives and offspring looking on - but I have set myself up with the convention of no-one other than the central three speaking, so it's not always easy to have any of them present in body.
(I rather like the next one, too - or is it the one after? There is no prospect of them stopping yet!)
SharonB
· 23 September 2004
· Chapter 39: Getting Physical
Ah, I've finally got some time to return to the Blessed Realm myself. It was good reading. Yes, I think that Celebrian and Galadriel should show off for the young ellyth. They should be shown what all the ladies can do!
When are we going to see the little ones taking a trip out to the "far horizons"? Sometime soon I hope. At least Legolas and Elerrina shsould take the little ones out to meet their daernaneth.
Author's reply
They are sort of in the new lands in some of these snippets - definitely in the next one, I think, although they don't actually mention it.
The families going out to the new realms will have to be another story, because of the no-one else speaking convention. I cannot see the wives and kids remaining silent for long, if they are brought centre-stage. It will come, but I'm struggling to deal with the fate of Minastan at the moment. Actually a ladies only story would be quite fun . . . And definitely a family reunion.
If only I could do this all the time!
daw the minstrel
· 23 September 2004
· Chapter 39: Getting Physical
Now that's a nice image to finish with. :-)
Your Celebrian and Galadriel must be like Nilmandra's. I had never thought about Celebrian as being good with a weapon until I read History Lessons II, but it makes sense, given the times in which they lived.
Author's reply
Glad you liked it!
Galadriel was a bit of a fighter, I think - is that part of the true history, or have I just read too many stories? And she has a better understanding of the vulnerability of elves than many who had not seen the things she had experienced. I can't see that she would want Celebrian to be defenceless, especially as she could see the world descending towards war. On the other hand, I agree with your principle that female elves were unlikely to be warriors, except under exceptional, being-descended-from-Galadriel circumstances - but I think that most ellyth would have learned defensive skills. Archery, maybe, and some knife work - including how to avoid being taken alive, although it may have been less necessary in the protected realms. I don't think they would have been C21st Lara Crofts - not the right sort of society. Sorry. Wittering.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 23 September 2004
· Chapter 39: Getting Physical
Thank you, Bodkin for a great chapter. There are two things in particular I like (apart from the mental images conjured by Elladan and Legolas sparring!!) - Elrohir's horror at the thought of his daughters seeing Celebrian and Galadriel both skilled with sharp weapons (Nimloth with a sword in her hand - my God!) and Elladan's comment: Mind your head on the rocks, my brother,’ Elladan said dulcetly. ‘I would not want to have to fish you out again. Remember water can be dangerous.’ ;-) Poor Elrohir. I loved that tale of yours, and it was a lovely reminder.
Author's reply
I liked the mental pictures here, too. Hot elves sparring before going for a swim . .
Nimloth with a sword is quite worrying - mind you, Galadriel with a sword must have terrified the whole of Valinor! They would start off with pretend swords though, wouldn't they?
Poor Elrohir indeed - never allowed to forget the incident. He really ought to retaliate with some of Elladan's mishaps. (I think I might have the young twins playing in the water again soon.)
Lianna
· 23 September 2004
· Chapter 39: Getting Physical
Jeez, Bodkin, I thought you said this was rated G!
Those images of Elladan and Legolas sparring and then removing various layers of clothing are quite something. *swoon*
Author's reply
In the eye of the beholder, Lianna!!
(But highly enjoyable for an imaginative beholder.) How much do you think they removed before they went in the water?
I must try to come up with some more active snippets!
elliska
· 23 September 2004
· Chapter 39: Getting Physical
Ahh, Galadriel sparing with anyone--now that would be an interesting sight. I have always thought she would be an absolutely formidable warrior. I like Legolas' maneuverings--if Galadriel is involved it is harder for Elerrina to object. Males can learn how to win a few rounds.
I must be tired today because the vision created in my head of Legolas and Elladan sparing and then the three of them swimming has my mind wandering in places Tolkien did not intend for these characters :) Oh well.
I love this story. Thanks for another fun chapter.
Author's reply
It would be interesting to watch Galadriel spar - she would only be able to work with a very limited number of people though, wouldn't she, because most elves would be far too terrified to do their best against her. I'd like to see her sparring with Celeborn - or (and this could be really interesting) Thranduil! But I imagine it would mainly be Celebrian - or Hithien, maybe.
I think Legolas is quite a competent manager of his wife - and I think he enjoys the challenge. Elerrina is quite strong-willed, but anyone who can manage Thranduil could deal with a wife who adores him.
I enjoyed the images this one threw up!
This is such fun to do.
Ellie
· 20 September 2004
· Chapter 38: Management
I love watching these three struggle with their kids! Hmmm, I wonder what the wives wil say about the kittens? Keep these little shapshots coming. They are such fun!
Author's reply
Kittens would be a lot better than the mice! I love doing these - and will keep doing them as long as they jump into my head.
(I quite like watching them struggle with wives, too!)
Nilmandra
· 20 September 2004
· Chapter 38: Management
I cast my vote for the cats.
But then, I live in a zoo. These adult elflings seem to have forgotten all they know about convincing adult adults about the need for furry pets. :-)
Author's reply
I'm sure the elflings will win - big eyes, wobbly lips, enormous hugs, skilled ego-boosts to Ada's power and authority. Their daughters have advantages they will not hesitate to use! And Legolas - grown up sisterless - will stand even less chance against them than the twins, whom Arwen trained to be more suspicious.
They will learn - in time to enjoy watching their grandchildren pull the same tricks.
elliska
· 20 September 2004
· Chapter 38: Management
'Legolas – he is an elfling. Remember what you were like. The most bizarre things make sense to you at that age.’
I started shrieking with this line and I never stopped. The plan with the tree over the pond sounds just like something children would do but the plan with the mice and voles etc was classic. Absolutely priceless. I would kill them. Don't be hasty, indeed. I don't see a good way out of this--the poor husbands will be in trouble with someone. Another great chapter. Too funny.
Author's reply
It is good for elflings to torment their adars. For both sides. I cannot help but feel sorry for their mothers, who get to come in and be the big bad wolf, with both sides staring at them pitifully. Although Aewlin might learn that being too cunning will just steel their resolve - I don't think their naneths will respond too well to deliberately introduced rodents!
And don't odd things make sense to kids - if men are from Mars and women from Venus, kids must be from Alpha Centauri.
daw the minstrel
· 20 September 2004
· Chapter 38: Management
LOL. These three seem caught in the middle between their ingenious and energetic children and their outraged wives. Sometimes they seem like big kids themselves. LACE says that elven children needed little teaching or something like that, but I wonder if that's because Elves assumed that decades and centuries of experience would lead most people to acquire wisdom after a while.
Author's reply
As are many fathers! I think they'd like to join the children most of the time, too - but feel their position demands more maturity!
Being able to take time must be one of the better things about immortality. And probably endows Elven parents with a good deal more tolerance. Given the age gaps of their offspring, too, Elven children might well have seemed easier to rear. I can't imagine the offspring of these three, however, being anything other than curious and adventurous and pushing at the boundaries for no other reason to see if they would give way. And, of course, doing quite a few things that nobody would ever think to tell them not to do.
And these are E2L's big kid moments. They spend a lot of time working hard and being grown-up, but when they get together, they revert.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 20 September 2004
· Chapter 38: Management
I'm with Elrohir on this one - tell the elflings they can have a kitten each! (Can you tell I'm a cat lover?) It shows them as loving adas, and circumvents Aewlin's cunning plan. The pond escapade sounds great - just wet, mucky, and risky enough to satisfy most children.
There is one wonderful comment here: ‘Legolas – he is an elfling. Remember what you were like. The most bizarre things make sense to you at that age. That sums up Elrohir's thought processes perfectly in my last chapter!!
Jay
Author's reply
I'm sure the elflings will win on the kitten front - after all, how will their naneths be able to resist the cute little balls of fluff? The pond - h'mm. Half the time kids seem to get into difficulties because, although they can see from A to B, they can't spot C, or factor in X and Y. Mind you, as a parent, by the time these things have happened, there is no point torturing yourself with what could have gone wrong - and I can so see E2 emerging, dripping, from the water at the same age.
Women from Venus, men from Mars, kids - even elflings - from somewhere much further away!
Shemyaza
· 17 September 2004
· Chapter 37: Keeping Vigil
I've followed your tales, although not always left reviews, because I find your stories interesting and very well written. I think yours is one of the more thoughtful premises about life on Valinor after the Elves have left ME. The three young men Elladan, Elrohir and Legolas interest me because they are a similar age, background and experiences. In spite of painting a relatively idyllic portrait of that life, every now and again you subtly hint at the fact that none of them really have a lot to motivate them, although in your parallel tale, now complete, you have them seeking new lands to develop. I think these subtle hints are excellent, because these three young men who have known excitement, danger and some wonderful people still on ME, would in fact find the idyllic life rather stagnant on occasion. Offspring and marriage would fill most of the 'holes' left in their lives, but I think your comment about the children not having much before them was for me a very telling one. You might not even have meant it like that, it may be just my perception, but I think that the three young fathers would occasionally find the lack of motivation and excitement very tedious indeed. None of them strike me as the kind to just settle in and enjoy stagnation, and in spite of the 'new lands' aspect, the virtual lack of any kind of real opposition or difficulties of any kind would be very irksome for them. They have totally different backgrounds to their wives and their parents are just happy to have set thousands of years of struggle and adversity behind them so they will be happy to settle. Elladan, Elrohir and Legolas still have a desire for adventure and excitement.
Just a few of my own thoughts on the subject! Of course you *were* instrumental in kicking them off!
Author's reply
I think that Elrohir, Elladan and Legolas were very much at a loose end to start with - they were quite lost, but as their lives have developed and they have acquired wives and children they have become much more content. I think people who have lived through war and dangerous times want their children to live in safety, but they then find it difficult to deal with the differences involved in growing up in a safe environment.
Developing new realms would be a challenge - and hard work - and would probably ease them through the transition from warrior to mature elf lords. After all - it's more or less what Elrond and Thranduil did after Dagorlad, until the return of Sauron altered the challenge a bit.
Elladan's wife is from Eryn Lasgalen - so she has a much clearer understanding of his life experience. Sirithiel's parents were from Lothlorien, so she knows some of it from hearsay, so Legolas's wife is the only one who has little connection to Middle Earth - although she is a redhead (well, chestnut) and ready for a little excitement herself.
Valinor could be an unstimulating environment if nothing changed there - and all they had to look forward to is millennia of the same. I don't think they will let that happen, though. There must be more for them to do and places for them to go.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Nilmandra
· 16 September 2004
· Chapter 37: Keeping Vigil
I am pleased that the twins can speak about Arwen and Aragorn with such fond memories and acceptance of the choice that Arwen made.
And I liked the description of Arwen - it is much as I see her too (and how she is behaving as an elfling this chapter :D)
Author's reply
How she is behaving in this chapter????? Does that mean more History Lessons are imminent??? You're getting me excited!
Affection, acceptance - yet still grief, I would think. Time doesn't blur sorrow so much for elves, to my mind. But the twins, even more than Elrond, know that Arwen was happy, because they were there - and they know she would have faded without him, so maybe that helps.
Look forward to learning more about elfling Arwen!
Ellie
· 16 September 2004
· Chapter 37: Keeping Vigil
I've had days where I wanted to lose certain members of my family in the forest... I loved this discussion and all of the comparisions to other relatives. Very insightful offerings!
Author's reply
Thank you. There are times when it would be rather pleasant to lose oneself in the forest, too. People often mention Legolas's pain from losing the mortals who became his close friends, but Estel was a brother to the twins - and Arwen a sister who should have shared their immortality. And I don't know that the passage of time would do much to heal the wounds for elves - although I hope it would.
lwarren
· 16 September 2004
· Chapter 37: Keeping Vigil
Awww, Bodkin, can I have a nest of elflings? Then again, maybe not, if it involves tree climbing, etc. This was very effective...three adars watching over their little ones asleep in the forest...and deciding NOT to lose them *vbg*. I have often had the same thought in the mall with my three!
I teared up, tho', at the comparisons to Estel and Arwen. I miss those two...we need a dimensional door or something to reunite them with everyone else! *g...then sniff* That was a sad reminder of ME, when least expected. It must be comforting to see Estel and Arwen in their offspring, but haunting, also.
I keep wondering how you keep the kidlings straight...I'm going to make family trees for E2 and L! I finally got the ladies matched up right...now for the babelets! Great addition...and just what I needed this morning before I got involved with my own version of "slavery"! (Keep repeating, Bodkin, I am not alone...I am not alone...)! :-):-):-)
linda
Author's reply
Certainly you can have a nest of elflings! All you have to do is find an elf or two and set up a breeding programme. (I think the tree climbing might be more useful in getting away from a nest of elflings.) Children are exceptionally adorable when bathed and asleep.
Missing Estel and, particularly for the twins, Arwen must be awful. They knew that Estel was a Man, but their sister they would have expected to have with them always. It must catch up with them every now and then.
I'm failing in the kidling area! I forgot that I had made Nimloth and Aewlin blondes! (After all, it's only fair for Celebrian, Galadriel and Celeborn to have some blonde grandchildren.)
elliska
· 16 September 2004
· Chapter 37: Keeping Vigil
So many gems. There is just so much humorous potential in Legolas, Elrohir and Elladan as fathers. Some of my favorites:
They look so innocent while they sleep,’ he said wonderingly. ‘Even though we know better,’ his brother concluded.
Wel at least they have learned something. Now if only they can keep it in their heads at the next party :)
‘Elerrina’s brother was telling us tales of things she did as an elfling,’ Legolas said idly. ‘It destroys her theory that all their bad behaviour is down to my influence. Adar was moved to say that he was thankful that he had not had the rearing of her.’
Can you imagine Thranduil saying that?! Too funny!
and along the same lines:
Thranduil says the same thing,’ Legolas agreed ruefully. ‘He said he is looking forward to my having to deal with the trials of adolescence – and he has warned me that he will do nothing to aid me in my suffering. I think he looks on the prospect as a reward for all the trouble I gave him as I was growing up.’
I have said many times that parents have the right to take pleasure in the suffering of their children when they have their own parents. I laughed so hard when I read these lines.
I love this story but I think the chapters I like the best are ones like this one when these three are 'reflecting' on such things. Great chapter!
Author's reply
Thank you! Even if they've learnt that elflings are not safe, there is still that moment when you think, 'shall I turn a blind eye and just hope'. I can see them doing that a lot. And hoping no-one finds out until naneth gets home!
I would like to see Thranduil with a daughter - now why didn't Tolkien provide him with one! I like it when they are sitting around chatting about nothing in particular - but they are elves of action! They can't be idling all the time.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 16 September 2004
· Chapter 37: Keeping Vigil
I like this moment with adas and elflings camping out in the woods - even if E2L can't relax and have to keep guard.
I'm puzzled - you say here that Nimloth's hair is dark, yet I'm sure I read in a previous chapter that Elrohir had golden-haired elflings. Which of us is wrong?
Jay
Author's reply
You're quite right, you know. Nimloth and Aewlin are supposed to be blondes. (I've changed it!) It just seemed fair to give blondes a chance - and Sirithiel and Celebrian and Galadriel and Celeborn are all fair, so it seemed to be logically possible.
I think adas in the woods with elflings would, if sensible keep careful watch, even if they weren't accustomed to woods with orcs and spiders - but I don't see E2L becoming careless even after centuries in perfect safety.
daw the minstrel
· 16 September 2004
· Chapter 37: Keeping Vigil
What these three say about being parents was my own experience too. I couldn't imagine how I ever managed not to notice the giant hole in my experience before my son came along. But then there were days when I also couldn't imagine how I would last until he went to bed.
I like the observations on how the children resemble various people. The mentions of Arwen, Estel, and Eldarion were touching. I actually had to stop and think for a minute when I realized you were referring to Eldarion in the past tense.
Author's reply
Children perform an instant life-change on you - and you think it will last for ever - and then you suddenly realise that they are adults and they don't need you to get up in the night, or run them to swimming club, or help them with their maths - or pick them up from night clubs.
In this version the twins didn't sail for some hundreds of years, which puts their departure after Eldarion's death - possibly even after his son's. They must miss them - Arwen and Estel particularly. Every now and then it must just get up and kick them in the teeth.
Nilmandra
· 12 September 2004
· Chapter 36: After the Ball was Over
LOL at the fathers being in trouble...especially Elladan merely by association, although I suppose they consider child raising a household affair.
The funny thing is, I actualy cannot imagine Elrond being in trouble with Celebrian like this. I can imagine Celeborn being in trouble with Galadriel for aiding and abetting his daughter when she was young though :D
Author's reply
You are very clever, Nilmandra. I can't imagine Elrond in this situation either now you mention it. But I can see Glorfindel, as adopted uncle, falling into these situations all the time.
And I can picture Galadriel looking daggers at Celeborn - and him sharing the trouble rather than automatically getting the blame.
Maybe it's because Elladan, Elrohir, Legolas and Glorfindel seem so much more light-hearted - and are so famed for their own mischief.
I imagine the twins went for shared responsibility in their early youth - I can't see either wanting the other to be blamed for something on his own, and it certainly would have been one way of attempting to make them think before they threw themselves into adventure.
I quite like the idea of extended family and all living together in an enormous house and raising children with all their kin around them. (As long as I'm excluded, of course.) It's probably very good for the children.
Ellie
· 12 September 2004
· Chapter 36: After the Ball was Over
Oh boy. Too funny! Yuck! but funny.
I think that Elrohir and Legolas will make most formidable fathers of their pretty daughters. They should deter the suitors for a little while at least.
Author's reply
Poor elflings.
There's a saying that poachers make the best gamekeepers. I suspect that Elrohir and Legolas will do their very best to protect their daughters from the dangers of boys. They won't stand a chance, of course. They might scare the boys, but their daughters will run rings round them.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 12 September 2004
· Chapter 36: After the Ball was Over
Poor elflings - getting drunk on stolen punch! I knew they had wine down there! And sure enough, their fathers are to blame. I must say I'd be surprised if Elladan and Elrohir didn't have a very similar experience at some feast in Imladris when they were young - oh, is that a plot bunny I see?
Jay
Author's reply
Elrohir and Elladan getting into something they weren't supposed to? Is that likely?
Fathers are always to blame. It's a good rule to establish when the children are very small. Fortunately the elflings were - unwell - although I suspect one of the things that their wives found so annoying was that they were unwell in the middle of the dance floor, instead of having been whipped smartly outside.
But they will learn. Well, the elflings will. Not so sure about the fathers.
daw the minstrel
· 12 September 2004
· Chapter 36: After the Ball was Over
Oh dear. That must have been a mess!
Actually, little kids and alcohol don't mix at all. One of my friend's kids drank mouthwash when he was toddler and the doctor had her give him stuff so that he'd throw it up again. Apparently alcohol poisoning is a real risk. So these elves should be all happy about how lucky they are! :-)
Author's reply
Alcohol is a good thing to keep away from kids. Drinking mouthwash - yuk. Another thing they are sometimes known to do is go round finishing what is in everyone's glass. Still, maybe elves are genetically less susceptible to wine - they seem to drink enough of it.
They've got (very quickly I know) slightly beyond the toddler stage - they are learning archery now, so must be sixish (HE), at least, for Elrohir's and a bit older for the others. (How time flies!) This is really, really episodic and odd moments.
elliska
· 12 September 2004
· Chapter 36: After the Ball was Over
I knew it had to be wine or something like that--pretty fruity looking punch is even better. This was hilarious. Can't you just see three husbands swaeting over how much trouble they'll be in after their kids get in trouble? That is how it always works (at least it certainly did in my household) and it is so funny to see in Legolas and the twins. Sounds like the children had a memorable experience. My favorite part though was: 'Oh well - I can think of one good outcome to this,’ Elladan said, stretching and yawning as he spoke.
‘Which is?’ ‘I do not believe we will be trusted to look after elflings at a ball for a good few years.’ If only it were that simple. :) It is wonderful that this one really can continue for a long time. Legolas (and probably worse still, the twins) with daughters old enough to be courted--oh trouble!
Author's reply
It's always adar's fault. That's a rule worth establishing from the start! If they had spoiled the elflings fun when they weren't doing anything, they would be in hot water - but you can guarantee that turning a blind eye means they will have been doing something terrible. E2L will survive - they've dealt with worse things than cross wives.
They will not be trusted to look after the elflings for a while - and be reminded of their shortcomings for a while longer - but no exhausted mother will refrain from handing the kids over to dad for too long!
Can't you just see their faces when their little girls start taking an interest in boys!