Rose Sared
· 26 November 2004
· Chapter 44: Parents and Children
I baack! And so are you, what a nice wee chapter. I felt all goey at the end, just what I needed on a friday night. Thank you. I do agree with you, much more depth under that blond head than he usually shows.
Thanks for the update
Rose
Author's reply
Hooray! You're back . . I was thinking about you! I've been playing with another story, but that's finished now, so I'm back with these. The twins and Legolas all have a lot more depth and power than often comes across, I think. Although adaptability must have been a useful quality for Thranduil's son!
Friday night? It's the crack of dawn here and daylight is still an hour away.
SharonB
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 43: By the Water
Ah, great to have a nice light hearted addition to the story. Poor fathers from time eternal have had problems of how to cope with those wonderful daughters they are blessed with. And I think most of then end up like Elrohir, abdicating to his wife when it comes to dicipline. But it does seems a little danagerous to ship them off to Galadriel. Elladan is right, it seems less safe to let them learn from her and come back. ;-)
Nice seeing an update.
Author's reply
Poor Elrohir. I think he's just taking a holiday from the problem really - I don't think he would dump all the stress on Sirithiel. And they will outgrow it - it will just feel a very long time before all that patient elven teaching sinks in, especially with Nimloth. I imagine Galadriel as having been a rather DIFFICULT elfling - more perhaps like Aewlin than Nimloth, but they have definitely taken after their great grandmother. (Galadriel had four older brothers - itself an explanation for her rather . . . determined nature.) And Galadriel's teaching didn't do Celebrian or Arwen any harm.
I felt in need of some light-hearted - but they have to be serious sometimes, just because - well, that's life!
elliska
· 2 November 2004
· Chapter 43: By the Water
I was so happy to see this. I need the light hearted humor right now. Poor daughters. But I'm sure they'll cause their own stir. The conversations about being a twin was very well done. But my favorite part was:
‘Noldor mud-huggers,’ Legolas called.
‘Silvan tree-scamperer,’ Elladan returned the insult.
Very funny. :)
Author's reply
I felt like a bit of frivolity - I have been wallowing rather lately in less light moods.
Poor daughters indeed - but boys of a certain age really don't like being expected to talk to girls. I think Elrin would have been polite - but Galenthil is desperate for an all-ellyn activity.
Being the second-born, second-named of twins must be hard. He's always 'and Elrohir' - and since to my mind he is less . . . impetuous than his brother, I think he must have had moments of feeling overlooked. But he has come through it - and wouldn't be without Elladan. He will probably be very understanding of Aewlin. If only she were likely to be as understanding of him!
I liked the insults too. Only very good friends can be rude to each other with impunity.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 43: By the Water
An update! I've missed this tale. I love the description of Legolas as an 'over-sized squirrel friend' and the ensuing insults. I also liked Elrohir's admission that there were some disadvantages to being a twin - and Elladan's disbelief! Elrohir is at least in a good position to help Aewlin when she struggles with being the younger twin.
Elrohir's 'cunning plan' in dealing with his daughters was great, as was Elladan pointing out that they would return after having learned from Galadriel herself!
Jay
Author's reply
I felt the need of some frivolity! E2L have to trust each other totally to throw insults at each other - I don't think they would accept it from many people.
Being a twin must be harder on the second born - the one who always has 'and' in front of his name. It would require some introspection, I should think. Elrohir is well-qualified to help Aewlin - if she lets him, that is.
It is a good 'cunning plan' - but I think, whereas a Galadriel makes a terrific and very reassuring grandmother, I don't know that I would be so keen on having two of her as my daughters. On the other hand, at least she is in control of herself, which is more than you can say for Nimloth.
daw the minstrel
· 1 November 2004
· Chapter 43: By the Water
I like the musings on what it means to have a sibling, especially one who is a twin. I always felt sorry for friends who had to take their little brother or sister along with them. Elrohir is right, I think, that while companionship and understanding are valuable, there's also value in standing on your own.
Author's reply
I think it must be particularly difficult if you are the one who is always named second. You must wonder, at times, if you have any value as a person on your own. Elrohir probably had to put more thought into what it meant to be the second-born - and may actually be a more secure person because of it. It does make him uniquely qualified to parent Nimloth and Aewlin - if they ever let him, that is!
elliska
· 11 October 2004
· Chapter 42: Losses
Oh, so sad. This is likely something every reader can remember from their childhood. The loss of you first pet is so hard because you do invest so much emotionally and you don't realize it. It would be even harder for elves, I imagine. Well done.
Author's reply
Elflings don't even have any experience of age around them, do they? Even their great-grandparents look like particularly attractive twenty somethings with no signs of their many centuries.
Even if they know intellectually that animals age and die, it's not the same as it happening to a creature that you care about. And Fluffy wasn't old - she was killed by accident, which is something that can, presumably, also kill elves, even in the Blessed Realm.
I hope Aewlin will learn to love Patch and share her with Nimloth - but there is that little bit of sorrow inside her now that knows that nothing lasts unchanged for ever. I think her adar would have liked her to live a few more decades before she learned that.
TieAillin Alcarion
· 11 October 2004
· Chapter 42: Losses
I've been enjoying this story since you started writing it. Wonderful, and gives you a chance to explore a lot of things. How old are the elflings now?
(and for me this chapter is timely. We just lost our dog of 14 years after a short illness last week. She was what I like to think of as an Elvish breed that usually lives to be around 20, so 14 was really not quite middle aged. And my two children are having a rough time dealing with it. My thoughts on loss are that love is always worth the pain, and that I lose something precious when I guard my heart.)
Tracey
Walking with Elves (only on the Discovery Channel--we wish!)
Author's reply
This story started as one tiny little idea - and has just grown. It is pretty haphazard as the time scale moves forward though, although it is moving forward. I reckon the elflings are approximately in Human Equivalent years: Elrin - 12 ish, Eleniel and Galenthil - 10 ish, and Aewlin and Nimloth - 7 ish.
It is dreadful adapting to the loss of a much loved pet, and children find it especially difficult losing a family member who has been there for much of their lives. But you are right - love is worth the pain.
SharonB
· 11 October 2004
· Chapter 42: Losses
Yes, it's difficult enough for us mortals to lose that first pet let alone a little elfing learning that lesson. I'm glad that Adar Elrohir can comfort his little Aewlin.
And Legolas was really attached to a few humans so I can see he wants to fight his children learning about the pain of loss, especdially so early on in life. However, that is a part of life, even in the blessed realm. But never do we want the little ones to learn that lesson early in life.
Good chapter.
Author's reply
Yet elflings must be confronted by the loss of their pets, as they are children for longer. Possibly Fluffy's death is even more of a shock as it was an accident - Fluffy was still not much more than a kitten. I think Adar would have liked to protect his little one from any distress, but as he can't, he will settle for comforting her.
Any death reminds Legolas of those he loved - even if the century or so of their association was no more than an eyeblink in the life span of elves, they are still in his heart. (I read a story recently where Pippin and Merry asked Legolas to remember them for always - sorry whoever wrote it, I can't recall who it is - and I feel that is how he honours those he loved.) But he still doesn't want his children to know loss - but you are right, it is inevitable.
Ellie
· 11 October 2004
· Chapter 42: Losses
How sweet and how sad! The mortality of pets is a hard lesson to learn. Poor little elfling! I like your showing this side of the the twins and Legolas. It seems to be a side that doesn't come up so much in fic even with all of the angsty fics out there.
Can't wait for more!
Author's reply
I like seeing E2L as caring fathers wanting to protect their offspring from all evil, yet knowing that they cannot keep them free of the sadder aspects of life. Pet mortality - well, it's probably worst of all the first time, but elflings are young for so long that it must occur to them several times. Even their ponies are unlikely to live until the elflings are adult.
I hope Aewlin takes some consolation in Patch when she gets over her first sadness.
daw the minstrel
· 11 October 2004
· Chapter 42: Losses
It is awful to want to protect your children from life's sad truths and to realize that you can't. These three are very good fathers to try to work out the kind of balance to strike between protecting your children and misleading them.
Author's reply
It is very difficult to tread the right path - but being exposed to the less pleasant sides of life is an important part of maturing. One of the most unpleasant things you realise as a parent is that you cannot defend your children at all times - and seeing their disillusion when they are hurt.
They are good fathers - they were parented well themselves and it does have a knock-on effect.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 11 October 2004
· Chapter 42: Losses
Ah, Bodkin, what a sad chapter! Poor little Aewlin, and poor little Fluffy. I know exactly how she feels - over the years I have had three cats who met an untimely end on the road outside our house. Child psychology says that grieving for pets is actually good practice for dealing with other loss later in life - but for immortal elflings, that doesn't work.
I like the originality of the name, BTW - one of my cats (black) was called Sooty!
Nice image of Elrohir comforting his daughter, though.
Jay
(Sad little back story about the twins' dog, too)
Author's reply
It must be a problem with elflings and pets - 20 years for a cat would see out human childhood, but elflings would still be quite young and have almost no experience of loss. But I can't see that stopping them from wanting to care for pets.
Children are usually so 'original' when naming their pets - we've have a rabbit called Snuffles and guinea pigs called Nibbles and Scuttles. And other guinea pigs named for a range of chocolate bars - and, come to that, one called Sausage.
I liked seeing Elrohir cuddling Aewlin - it's difficult putting anyone else in these unless they are asleep, because they can't talk - and I liked having her centre stage.
Poor Tug. Things affect elflings so intensely.
SharonB
· 7 October 2004
· Chapter 41: Escort Duty
LOL, it certainly does sound like they got the children they deserved after all their antics we've heard about. ;-) But that is part of growing up, for the kids testing their limits and for the adults keeping them in line and not letting them know how amused they are by the antics. But Nimloth drew blood, oh dear, poor Uncle Elladan. The worst part is will he survive the kidding by his twin and Legolas later on. Or heaven forbid the kidding from his parents and grandparents.
Author's reply
Come to that, will Nimloth survive? Possibly the worst part of her punishment will be that she will never (and I mean never) be allowed to forget this. Centuries from now, when she is a beautiful and controlled elleth being courted by gorgeous elves, they will all be told about her tendency to bite - and when she has elflings, I expect it will be one of her uncle's favourite stories to tell about her.
The children are mischievous and heedless - but they always get their comeuppance. Their parents have reason to know what they are up to and are remarkably good at catching them. Experience shows! But it must be hard not to laugh sometimes. Legolas and Elrohir already think it is hilarious that brave, orc-slaying warrior Elladan has fallen victim to a little sweet-looking blonde elleth.
Ellie
· 7 October 2004
· Chapter 41: Escort Duty
This is great! What wonderful banter and their trying not to laugh while doling out discipline! That can be very difficult to do sometimes in real life. Well done. Hoping for more.
Author's reply
It takes children many years to realise how close their parents come to collapsing in hysterics. I hope, for the sake of discipline, that the elflings are too anxious to look behind them.
There will be more. Lots more. I can't help it. It's an addiction.
Thank you for reading.
elliska
· 6 October 2004
· Chapter 41: Escort Duty
I laughed all the way through this one. Elrohir wants to give them pointers to avoid getting caught, basically? Can you imagine his wife hearing that?! And Nimloth biting! Oh, I would have been 'taken in hand' for that alright. I would have got my father's hand on my backside a few times. I can't see elves doing that either but I can sure see them being tempted. They handle that very well.
This was a great phrase: [They] continued to pick their despondent way towards retribution. Too funny.
And this: 'I recall one occasion,’ Elrohir said, ‘when Adar took us both to Lasgalen. We were both adult by then – but you were not, and we arrived in the middle of a most impressive performance from Thranduil. It had my knees knocking and I had not even been in Lasgalen when you committed whatever sin he was addressing. I could not believe it when we saw your adar and ours later. They had clearly been at the Dorwinion and they were in hysterics as they compared your pranks with ours – and boasted about a range of offences from their own early years that made my mouth drop open.’
That is very amusing to contemplate. Love to see that dialogue.
But I cannot help but think about the mothers. As the twins and Legolas say, their children come by these traits honestly. I'm certain Legolas was in the forest at night without permission his fair share of times. The poor wives probably had no idea what they were getting themselves into.
Great chapter!
Author's reply
Well, you do want your children to avoid making the mistakes you made yourself, don't you! (Maybe he hasn't quite got the hang of this yet.)
Nimloth did bite - poor Elladan. Despite being elves she is probably quite lucky to have avoided a slap, which tends to be an instinctive reaction to assault. I think Aewlin has registered that a large gap between Nimloth and Elladan is advisable. I think she has probably some nice new sharp second teeth, which made drawing blood fairly easy. On the other hand - a brave warrior who has survived orcs, battles and general mayhem complaining about tooth marks from a seven-ish (HE), blonde, sweet-looking elleth is quite amusing.
I feel quite sorry for Elrin, who is, in my imagination, a relatively sensible elfling. He doesn't stand a chance, however, when up against his cousins. Yet, as the oldest, he is probably due to get in the most trouble.
The first time you realise your parents are human (or, of course, in this case, elven) and laugh, have a few glasses of wine, make mistakes etc. . . Quite a moment. And I can well imagine that Thranduil was, shall we say, not an easy elfling. (Elrond, I think, was probably easier - needed approval too much to be really wicked. Not secure in parental love.)
I think the elflings have inherited some of their mischief-making from their mothers as well - especially Elerrina, who was probably quite naughty. Sirithiel was a good little elleth and Miriwen in between. Miriwen knew what she was getting into - I think she secretly cared for Elladan before, when she was training as a healer in Imladris, but never thought anything would ever come of it. I was going on a bit here, so I've stopped.
I hope the loving adars manage to sober down overnight so they can do their own parents proud in the morning, when they have to squash some rather tired and nervous elflings.
daw the minstrel
· 6 October 2004
· Chapter 41: Escort Duty
She bit him?! Hard enough to draw blood?! How old is she? And whatever happened to well-behaved elf children????
I can remember being simultaneously amused and horrified at some of the things my kid did, so I suppose this is pretty common. And, as you say, these three are reaping what they sowed.
Author's reply
Hamsters and other small furry creatures can draw blood quite easily - she may have panicked at being grabbed and just nipped him. She didn't draw MUCH blood - that's why the other two found it so funny. Elladan the gallant orc fighter, frequently seen swathed in bandages, brought down by an elfling's baby teeth. (Maybe she's cut a few new sharp second teeth.) I'm afraid Nimloth is not a very well-behaved elf child, though it is not for want of effort from her parents.
Children can do some pretty thoughtless things - and it is a case of like adar, like offspring - although with Nimloth, it's more like sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
Author Reply: The aging of the elflings is a bit haphazard. Nimloth and Aewlin are seven-ish Eleniel and Galenthil ten-ish and Elrin twelve-ish - all (HE).
Jay of Lasgalen
· 6 October 2004
· Chapter 41: Escort Duty
Bodkin, this chapter needs a coffee warning! Nimloth bit her uncle Elladan? Poor Elladan - and his brother and Legolas were not much help, were they? I think Elrohir may see it differently soon, though, and will do the Very Stern Adar act.
What had the elflings been up to?
Jay
Author's reply
I think she got carried away. She's quite lucky that Uncle Elladan didn't. Mind you, when you've seen him bleeding from serious wounds, incapacitated by spider bites, with assorted broken limbs / concussion etc, a little nip on the hand probably seems quite amusing by comparison. I think Nimloth does need a bit of a stern Talking-To (not that it will do much good - I think only added years will bring her round). The adars (and naneths) will do their best in the morning after they've got over their giggles.
What had they been doing? Don't ask questions like that - it leads to random story-writing.
Rose Sared
· 6 October 2004
· Chapter 41: Escort Duty
The children you deserve huh? Thank goodness the valar spared me that. My problem is hiding my disreputable past from my far too good teenagers. Muuuum, they would cry in unison.
humpf
Rose
Author's reply
But would they know what to do with really good little elflings? And elflings take a long time to grow up - so they have so much more opportunity to get into mischief. Parents as adventurous as these would most likely have confident and adventurous children - mischief is only misplaced courage and enterprise.
It's funny when the behaviour patterns are the wrong way round - naughty adults and highly mature teenagers. Though mostly kids find whatever their parents do / did / will do / might do is pretty gross.
lwarren
· 30 September 2004
· Chapter 40: Schemes
GASP! They ARE in their new home!!!! How did I miss that??? WHERE did I miss it!?? *runs off yelling at RL and the injustice of it all*
linda
sorry, can't imagine what came over me! :-(
Author's reply
You didn't really miss any definitive statement - they've sort of been there since about 33 I think, but they could just as easily have been anywhere else. The setting is sort of peripheral to the conversation in these. It's all more or less an excuse to get them together so they can rib each other, remember the past and bemoan the difficulties inherent in being husbands and adars.
Life! I suppose it's better than the alternative, though. Most of the time.
lwarren
· 30 September 2004
· Chapter 40: Schemes
Finally, a minute to call my own and review...I hate it when RL grabs on and won't let go! And I must admit...a wet Legolas calls for a comment or two...or three! LOL This little snippet was so funny...trapped by the rain, sensing that something was "in the works", and only when Legolas surrendered did they figure it out! I loved the "only if you do not drip on the books" and the vision of Elrond's past vengeance on the son that did! There were just lots of little parts that made me smile or laugh...the idea of Legolas shaking the rain off like a dog and then "squelching" when he walked over to join his friends. Rain is NOT a respecter of persons, or princes *g*! Yes, it (Begetting Days and the parties that accompany them) only comes once a year, so enjoy the pampering and surprises, E2!
BTW, were they living in their new homes in the forest? It seemed as if they were checking on the construction of the building they were in...and they checked with "those who know" about such things as the weight of prolonged snowfall during the winter on rooftops, etc. Just wondering! Great addition, Bodkin! Thanks for an enjoyable way to spend my brief reprieve! :-)
linda
Author's reply
I can't imagine Elrond snapping over much - I visualised the twins sitting in the library doing work for their tutors and Elladan being so bored that he started ornamenting the illustrations in the book - the picture in my head has him adding moustaches and spectacles, but being an elf he probably wouldn't know what they were. Maybe he's drawing speech bubbles. Glorfindel now has a cartoon speech bubble that says, 'I will get you, you evil Balrogg. You cannot conker me.' Elrond took one look and reacted. I expect he felt guilty afterwards.
(Legolas gets even wetter in the last one of these!!) I think the twins were relieved when they realised that their sense of danger was both justified and unnecessary here. I love making the twins talking sensibly about stuff like drainage and sewers - there is more to them than practical jokers. Mostly that's the side they show, because these catch them on their time off, but they can cope with all the grown up stuff now!
Ellie
· 30 September 2004
· Chapter 40: Schemes
That was sweet! I think it's funny that they forgot their own begetting day! I"m glad they are finally settled in their new home. I like the way you so subtly and yet poignantly bring memories of the past into things wehn they are least expected.
Author's reply
Begetting days and birthdays - you know you are getting really grown up when they don't matter to you any more, and those around you, notably kids, are far more excited about the prospect than you are.
I think, with elven memory being what it is, the grief is always with them, and sharing it is important to them. They want to know that those whom they love are still in their hearts - and they must hope for an eventual reunion.
elliska
· 29 September 2004
· Chapter 40: Schemes
This one just made me smile. Happy birthday to the twins :) It was always fun to know that everyone is planning your 'surprise' party. And the line about Elrond spanking them for ruining books is too perfect. I can definitely see that as the thing that would push that particular elf over the edge. I love this story.
Author's reply
It is much better to know about the surprise party - most people hate surprises. Now they can sit back sipping on their wine and practise those surprised expressions when the elflings surprise them with jars decorated with pasta.
Everyone has their breaking point - I just see catching Elladan drawing moustaches on the elves illustrated in one of his books would be Elrond's. (I don't think Elrohir was spanked - he was almost as horrified as Elrond. He is definitely more his adar's son where the glories of literature are concerned)
Nilmandra
· 29 September 2004
· Chapter 40: Schemes
I would laugh at clueless males, but I forget my own birthday often enough.
Nice to have that little bit remembering Arwen :(
Now I am picturing Elrond turning Elladan over his knee for a library offense. I have Glorfindel manhandling the little bratling once, but he managed to get Adar riled....hmm....
Author's reply
When you realise that your birthday is of far more significance to someone else than it is to you, you notice that you are growing old(er). Mind you, it hit me when I was about fourteen, and my little sister was really excited.
Arwen must be in their thoughts a lot - especially as they watch the female offspring grow.
A library offence - made me laugh - I imagined him late getting back a book that was on restricted loan! I think he was drawing in it - nothing more likely to incense a bibliophile. Or - kids in maths, using their compasses to poke holes through all the o's in the textbook. I think Elrond could deal with most things calmly, but everyone has his breaking point!
Glorfindel manhandling him? Must reread - don't remember that.
Author Reply: I was thinking about breaking points as I drove and wondering what would make others snap. I pictured Celeborn if his daughter carved her name on a tree - yep, I think that would do it! ('But, Ada,' Celebrian said earnestly, 'the tree had no objection.')
I haven't decided what would tip Thranduil over the edge, though.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 29 September 2004
· Chapter 40: Schemes
Happy begetting day, Elladan and Elrohir! Can I come to the party? I like the way the wives got the children safely out of the way - can you imagine Elrohir's girls helping?
We know now what really upsets calm, controlled, Elrond - someone spoiling his books. And he smacked Elladan? I think even elves would resort to the odd slap in extreme moments.
BTW, I think when Legolas shakes himself it would be more like a dog - I've watched both my dog and my cat when they come in from the rain. The dog shakes herself vigorously from head to tail, the cat just shakes each paw daintily and looks miserable.
Jay
Author's reply
The elflings are busy making cards with straw and macaroni and whatever the elven equivalent of glitter glue is.
Can't you just see the gift giving - with the children's excited eyes watching to see how the twins respond and their wives and parents watching them with that malicious delight that says 'just how are you going to look thrilled to receive a very escapable ant farm or a bottle of rose water made by letting petals rot in water.'
I can just see Elrond dealing calmly with almost any crisis created by his sons, but I felt that cartoons in the corner of his most precious books would make him snap. And although elves didn't beat their young, they did live in quite a violent militaristic culture with lots of weapons training and warfare.
You are right - dogs are more likely to shake themselves. Elves just strike me generally as being more cat-like.
daw the minstrel
· 29 September 2004
· Chapter 40: Schemes
Nice picture of their life in the new forest home. I like rain. Sitting inside and listening to it and watching it is nice, but I even like being out in it. How sad that they have missing ones, but their trust that they will see them again eventually is nice.
Author's reply
Being inside in pouring rain is lovely. Also snow - though that is very special here, because it's not even one day a year. Being out in rain is great once you get wet enough that it no longer matters.
Almost all elves must have missing ones, I suppose, because they live so very long, but they can't hope for Mandos to return Arwen and Aragorn. Or, come to that, Elros. So they must have hope that eventually they will be reunited. I think, anyway. With elven memory, it would be too painful otherwise.
SharonB
· 29 September 2004
· Chapter 40: Schemes
Ah, you mean they are getting the party ready for the twins and don't want the kids meddling and messing things up! But interesting they are occupying the boys and girls with separate tasks. ;-)
So nice, it does seem like they are in the new lands in this chapter. And the one missing is Arwen, well and Aragorn too since he has a special place in everyone's heart who is there.
Author's reply
Well, I have the kids off making the sorts of lovely presents with which children tend to gift their beloved adars and uncles . . . and cards with pasta stuck on the front . . . and baking cakes with green colouring and decorated with candied violets. I don't know that any of the elflings are exactly where they are said to be - they are supposed to be deceiving the twins.
They are sort of in the new lands - definitely here and sort of elsewhere, but it doesn't necessarily show, because the setting tends to be secondary to the conversation.
I suspect the pain of missing Arwen (and Estel) is always there - but you have to live with it, and you can't stop the children having fun because there are gaps where beloved people should be.
Thanks for reading.