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Tangled Web  by daw the minstrel 436 Review(s)
erunyauveReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
This marks a real turning point, the sort that would have to occur before Legolas could be allowed to go to Rivendell as his father's representative. I think people have tended to see that errand as a punishment or an indication of inferior status in Mirkwood, but it seems to me it would require a fair amount of tact - the Wood Elves are in a rather embarrassing position and although Legolas is not aware of the implications, I think Thranduil must be.

It also marks a new phase for Eilian - I was wondering when he'd get around to having kids. It will be interesting to see how Ithilden handles Sinnarn's near death, and how Sinnarn handles Nithron's death. I can understand how he would feel.

Incidentally, have you ever considered writing a story from Beliond's point of view? He's such a colorful character (okay, I'm his number one fan, I know).

Author Reply: I loved being able to show Legolas and Eilian taking charge in that last chapter. They weren't necessarily enjoying it, but they were doing what was needful and Thranduil and Ithilden saw it. And your comment about the nature of the messenger to Rivendell is interesting. I love it when someone questions the commonly portrayed reason for something.

And yes, Thranduil has apparently decided that he needs more grandchildren. ;-)

Actually, one of the story ideas I have in my list is to tell a tale completely from the POV of the wives and/or the keepers. It would be interesting to get into their heads and see what they are like.

CormakReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
I'm terribly sad that this tale is over. I've enjoyed reading it as I have enjoyed all of your stories. You impress me with how quickly you put out these chapters and how well they are written. I hope there will be more stories in the future. I love reading how your write Tolkien's characters as well as your own!

Author Reply: Thank you, Cormak. I expect there will be more stories. As I was wandering around the house yesterday with no story to write, I was thinking about an elfling Legolas story. I need to get a little work done for a few days and they I'll be back writing again, I think.

Thank you for letting me know you enjoyed the story.

EsamenReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
What a wondrous toy the hobbit had in his possession


And what a wondrous line that is . . . . light hearted, yet full of dark forboding. To think that Thranduil didn't guess what it was! Hmm. I am so glad that you decided to include those last few lines of Mithrandir's and Bilbo's parting conversation with Thranduil. Those are some of my favorite lines of the whole book.

So . . . it's a wondrous story with a wondrous end. I'm wiping a tear, saying goodbye to everyone as they ride off into the Elvish distance . . . please bring them all back soon . . . I'll be watching the cyberwaves for them again . . . .

Thanks, Daw.

Author Reply: Thank you, Esamen.

It's actually hard to write about the ring, given what we know about it. It seems as though it should just stick out and sort of scream "Look at me! The One Ring, right here!" But not even Gandalf knew what it was. He was suspicious, but not terribly so, given the years he let pass before he did anything. And they all seem to take magic for granted, so maybe it could be a toy.

maya_arReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
Very nice indeed - in this chapter you've drawn together the various threads you started earlier as well as hinted at developments in the future. You handled the interaction of the woodland elves, the dwarves, and the men of Dale so well: have you considered writing about the Battle of Dale during the War of the Ring? We know so frustratingly little about it, other than the heroic last stand of King Brand and Dain Ironfoot. I'd love to see your take on it.
cheers,
Maya

Author Reply: Thank you, Maya. What a good idea about the Battle of Dale! I'd never even thought of it, although I have thought about writing about what went on in Mirkwood while Legolas was on the quest, maybe cutting back and forth between him and home. The Battle of Dale could be worked in there somewhere maybe. Right now though, I think I'll do another elfling Legolas story. I miss the little guy and I need something cheerier.

Ms. WhatsitReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
And I have to add: poor Eilian! The nagging for grandchildren has begun!

Author Reply: Hey! As the mother of a grown son and NO GRANDCHILDREN, I'm with Thranduil on this one. It's time! Get to it.

Ms. WhatsitReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
So do we get a Sinnarn/Emmelin wedding fic next? Or Eilian and Celuwen with elflings? Or is it back to the days of Young Legolas?

I liked Legolas bossing Thranduil and Ithilden around and making them eat. Role reversal, indeed!

Heh. Yes, Thranduil, do talk mysteriously about "Elvish enchantment" and leave the Men and Dwarves guessing as to what exactly you mean. I've always seen Wood-elves and Thranduil in particular as having a wicked, slightly cruel sense of humor, and this seems typical of him.

And good for Thranduil for realizing that Eilian and Legolas are (oh!) ADULT, (no!) CAPABLE, and (gasp!) TRUSTWORTHY. How long did it take him to figure that out, again? I guess Elves are no better than human parents in that regard.

Bilbo's gift was cute, and he was wise to decline Thranduil's invitation. Legolas and Sinnarn would have played soccer with Bilbo as the ball if he'd stayed, I bet.

Galelas's death was the saddest, I think, especially for Eilian. I actually felt bad for Tinar, too. I liked the discussion about Bard--and Legolas being reminded that having a flawed ally is ok. That will help him when dealing with a certain Man and Dwarf in the future.

Author Reply: I think young Legolas will be next. I've just been thinking about it today, but I have to do a little work first. My editorial assistant has been out of town and when she gets back Monday, I have to do stuff or I'm going to have an entirely empty April 05 issue of the journal. I guess I can just stamp "use this page to take notes" on each blank page.

I enjoyed having Legolas take care of his father and Ithilden. He sounds just like his father, doesn't he? I guess he's following the role model he knows.

I think your characterization of Wood-elf humor is so right on. Thranduil would enjoy being mysterious and having people wonder if he could turn them into toads or something.

dr_seuss_is_coolReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
Hello.

I loathed the idea all day that I wouldn’t be able to read this chapter until the day after it might be posted. But now that I read it I’m happy to say that I loved the very nice ending to this very great story.

I anticipated a much happier chapter, and I got it. Thank you. I’m very glad to see that Sinnarn is all right. I liked that Legolas was examining how it felt to be taking care of Ithilden and Thranduil. I was very interested in the part with Bard, when Thorin was being placed in his tomb. It really made me think. I’m very sorry for Tinar, the scene with him struck me as very sad even if short, but it was one of my favorite scenes. (That makes me sound mean and horrible) I will miss Bilbo from this story, but I know that he needs to go. Thranduil is such a great elf. I really do see him as being such a great father and a good example for other dads. I’m very happy to see Thranduil wanting more grandchildren. My favorite scene in this chapter had to be when Legolas was telling Thranduil about men. I thought it very interesting. And it was a very nice touch to see Anneal well and Thranduil thinking optimistically. Well, thank you again for such a great chapter and story.

Thank you for writing.
Bye bye.


Author Reply: This was a much happier chapter and I was glad too. Legolas is making the last few steps before he is ready to set off on the quest. He's thinking about Men and what they are like and who would be one he would admire.

I don't think Tinar is going to really change, but you never know. Elves have a long time to learn from their experiences.

Thranduil is indeed a good father. He knows what's going on with his kids even when he's very busy. And he wants grandchildren!

Thank you, Dr. S.

nanethReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
Of course Beliond is grumpy. His charge is wandering around the former battle area, no one knows if all the orcs have been found yet, everyone knows Legolas is the king's son, and he is acting as one of the leaders of the elf army. He's a prime target and Beliond is stuck in bed!

I loved your scene with Legolas giving his father and brother "The" Thranduil look and insisting that they eat. They've certainly done the same to him often enough in the past.

Seeing your children as the adults they are is so difficult for parents. No matter how mature they are, those snapshots of them as infants, toddlers, and small children dance around in your head! I'm glad he gave his sons a "pass" on their bad behavior and that Thranduil demanded elflings from Eilian. The entire family needs elflings!

Great job-as always! You bring your characters to life in such a wonderful way. Thanks for sharing this story with us!



Author Reply: I should have had Beliond saying something by the rafts. A few last minute words of warning to Legolas. That would have been good.

It amused me to have Legolas acting just like Thranduil in caring for his elders. I guess we do follow the role models of our parents!

And Thranduil may have decided (for now) that Eilian and Legolas are adults, but he doesn't hesitate to demand grandchildren or tell Annael that his daughter is marrying Sinnarn. LOL. I love Thranduil.

BodkinReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
On Keepers: Sinnarn will need a new keeper, won't he - but a different sort, because he is no longer an only-just-grown-up warrior, full of arrogance in his skills and likely to fall into all kinds of trouble, but a proper, grown-up, experienced warrior. You could almost have him training his keeper. It would be an entirely different type of relationship.

(Legolas's birth would be quite an interesting event - and would include him in a very early role.) Sorry to review again.

Author Reply: Bodkin, you are a mind reader! That is exactly the story I was thinking of next. As I was doing laundry and paying bills this morning, I even thought of how I could work in another bit of story I've been wanting to do.

"Sorry to review again" -- Oh yeah. Because authors just hate that. *snerk*

DotReviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
Ai, its over. I still feel bad about missing so much of it. I know you got plenty of other reviews but still… Anyway, bravo for a perfect ending to an incredible story.

It was fascinating to watch the two youngest sons of Thranduil assume responsibility. Whatever about Legolas having to take over from Todith, it must have felt really odd to Eilian to have to act on behalf of both Thranduil and Ithilden. I imagine it’s not something he ever really thought he’d have to do as one of them at least is always around. I know it’s Ithilden’s job he’s doing but he doesn’t even have Thranduil overseeing his actions. Still, his father clearly trusts him enough to allow him to do this and it can’t be easy for Thranduil to relinquish even a little control. It really goes to show how vulnerable these elves are when it comes to their family.

My absolute favourite image in this chapter is of Ithilden and Thranduil asleep when Legolas steps into the tent. There’s something so…I don’t know….*fragile* about it. I mean, these are the two most powerful figures in Mirkwood but in their worry and grief they are just two exhausted fathers. I’m so proud of Thranduil for choosing just to play ‘Ada’ for now. It brought a lump to my throat to see that he tucked his own blankets around Ithilden and just wrapped himself in his cloak. We’ve often seen him being all fatherly towards Legolas and he’s the same when Eilian is injured but it is strange to see him like that with Ithilden. Even he must be frightened to see Ithilden so frantic. Of course, he knows exactly what it’s like to worry about a son. He must be so anxious himself about his grandson but I’m glad he concentrates on looking after Ithilden.

I admit I laughed when Legolas orders Thranduil to eat. I know Thranduil isn’t injured but he still needs looking-after and it’s funny to see his youngest son act exactly as Thranduil does whenever one of them is injured.

“I would say he is as determined as you are, my lord, but I think he is expending his strength on healing himself rather than on such wasteful actions as worrying.” Hmmn. I wonder which healer that was. He isn’t afraid to speak his mind anyway. Luckily Ithilden doesn’t seem to have taken much notice. The poor thing has a right to worry. How awful for him to have found Sinnarn and in the midst of battle be able to do very little about him. Plus, of course, Nithron was dear to Ithilden as well.

What a sad image of the dead lying by the river, waiting to be sent home by the rafts. I’d hate to be the ones receiving them at the other end and having to ensure they were claimed by family.

I liked your take on Thorin’s funeral. Thranduil seems to have developed a little more respect for Dwarves in general and like the good ruler he is, goes through the ceremonies knowing that it should help to maintain a strong and necessary alliance. “Let them all wonder, and let their wonder breed a little healthy caution.” LOL! I think Thranduil enjoys having his sons wonder about his power. And I love that he and Mithrandir share this little secret.

I bet Eilian is glad he didn’t make that wager with Legolas. I’d agree with Thranduil that Bard is only doing what is right for his people. He did ask only for what he was entitled to and, like Thranduil, wanted this treasure to help his people. It made me smile to see that Thranduil decides not to reprimand his sons. It seems this has really been a learning experience for the Elvenking.

You know, I do feel bad for Galelas and it nearly broke my heart to see Tinar so bewildered at the loss of his younger brother who he might have treated with even a little more respect if he realised that he wouldn’t always be around, and poor Nithron was always so loyal and clearly loved Sinnarn and it’s difficult to see Ithilden and Sinnarn so grief-stricken - but I think I’m most upset about Todith. Galelas had a tough life but he was a good warrior and chances are he would never have found much happiness outside his patrol. I just think that if he and Nithron had to die, then it was fitting that they did so in battle, with Galelas showing his bravery and Nithron protecting his charge. I just always loved Todith! He’s always been around and made such a difference in the lives of young warriors like Legolas as well as being a really great captain. Can I just point out that the captaincy of the Home Guard is clearly cursed?!! I’ll cry if Annael gets the job after Legolas leaves to go on the Quest. *sigh* I’ll miss Todith as much as I miss Siondel.

Thranduil seems very forgiving of Bilbo. Actually, he really seems to appreciate his spirit and obvious generosity. For someone as innately suspicious as Thranduil, though, it’s a little odd that he takes the fact that the hobbit has a ring of invisibility in his possession so lightly. Ah well, we can’t argue with canon.

I’m glad Thranduil took a moment to sympathise with Eilian about Galelas. It seems that nothing passes him by and he’s noticed their relationship. And did he just practically order Eilian to have elflings?! Go Thranduil! He’s right that Eilian would make a good father. And Thranduil seems to be quite fond of his position as grandfather too. I’m starting to think he’s going a bit soft…;-)

He offers wise words to Legolas, and being Legolas he will no doubt take what his father says on board. It’s a pity, though, that his respect for Men will one day take Legolas so far from his father.

“Annael,” he called, “be sure to tell Emmelin that I look forward to dancing with my new granddaughter-by-marriage at her wedding.” Crikey, I really wouldn’t put anything past Thranduil. I’m so happy that Annael seems more than willing for the marriage to take place. Sinnarn deserves happiness. I’m so relieved that you spared him. For now, at least – although you’re almost as wily as Thranduil at times! I was only thinking the other day that Legolas is away for the next great battle in Mirkwood and how horrible it would be for him to lose people he loves but not find out until he finally comes home. Still, they can enjoy relative peace for a while now anyway. It's good that this can end on a note of hope. By the way, you’ve brought Legolas *such* a long way. His growth hasn’t been easy but always believable. He’s definitely more ready than ever to take his place as one of the Fellowship.

Seriously, this story is a masterpiece. You obviously put a tremendous amount of work into it and I loved every second! Congrats on a really great insight into this tale. Right, I’m technically supposed to be resting so I’m off to pretend that I was in bed all morning… As always I look forward to whatever you write next but for once I’m going to be patient and admit that you’re more than entitled to a little break! Just a little one, though…:-)







Author Reply: I hope you're feeling better soon, Dot, but you should take it easy. Surgery can take a long time to recover from.

You know, even writing about Legolas and Eilian as in charge and taking care of their elders was interesting. They felt quite different to me as I was doing it. I also liked the idea that, while Thranduil was worried about Sinnarn, it was Ithilden he was caring for. I liked the image of Thranduil sleeping with his arm thrown across his face; it did make him seem vulnerable.

The rows of Elven dead made me sad. It's an image that we don't usually see in the aftermath of a battle, especially a victory, but Tolkien tells us it's what the reality was here.

Thranduil is ever and always a clever ruler. If people wonder about what magic power he might have, so much the better from his point of view, including his sons. He'll use almost any advantage he can get.

I like your point about how fitting it was for Nithron and Galelas to die in battle. I've been surprised by how people divided on which character they feel worst about. Todith and Nithron were actually easier for me to part with than Galelas. I think Galelas aroused my maternal instincts.

One of the hardest things about writing this was making it plausible that people had no suspicions about the ring when to us, reading now, it's so clear that it was a problem. In FOTR, Tolkien says that Gandalf was concerned about the ring but even he did nothing about it for years. And they all seem to take the existence of magic for granted. In the end, I just have to fall back on canon, as you say.

Thranduil is the limit, isn't he? "Have elflings, Eilian." "Your daughter is marrying my grandson, Annael." LOL

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