Stories of Arda Home Page
About Us News Resources Login Become a member Help Search

All for Her   by SoundofHorns 26 Review(s)
CrimsonReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/28/2004
Dear fellow reviewers:

I just want to make it perfectly clear that Raksha and I are complete strangers. I repeat, we have never met; and therefore, her praise of my review was genuine, unsolicited, and completely uncoerced. (Thanks again, Raksha. The check is in the mail.)

But seriously…Raksha, I agree with your point about Faramir’s struggle with despair. The quote you cite from “The Two Towers” is perfect. That’s exactly the sort of thing I was looking for last night when I wrote, “I think that Faramir is in many ways an uncorrupted Denethor.” When Aragorn heals Faramir of the black breath, he describes Faramir as “a man of staunch will…[but] slowly the dark must have crept on him, even as he fought and strove to hold his outpost.”

I think the conflict of Hope vs. Cynical Realism is a central theme of LOTR. The struggle between doing the prudent thing versus doing the idealistic (read: foolish) thing plays itself out over and over in the story. Some examples:

1) Gandalf’s conversation with Saruman. Saruman very logically, very prudently, tells Gandalf that it would be wise for them to join the new “Power” – referring, of course, to Sauron. He gives some very good arguments. He explains that “the time of the Elves is over” but the time of Men is at hand, and Men as we all know are corrupt and weak. So of course, it only makes sense that the wise Saruman and Gandalf should have “power to order all things...for that good which only the Wise can see.” And it’s not like he’s “condoning” what the Dark Lord does because, as he further explains, “We can bide our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order; all things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends. There need not be, there would not be, any real change in our designs, only in our means.”

And there you have the perfect rational for fascism and totalitarianism. For a real life example of this sort of moral gymnastics, read the labored excuses Stalinists used to make to explain away all the murders and deportations that the “Revolution” made necessary. “Knowledge, Rule, Order.” Yep. The Bolsheviks didn’t march with banners reading, “Join us for gulags, bread lines, and forced starvation!” They marched under the banner of “Brotherhood, Bread and Unity.” Unfortunately, Peter Jackson reduced this complex study of “ends justifying the means” into a comic-bookish scene of dueling wizards flying around zapping each other with their walking sticks. Don’t get wrong, I loved the movies; I just love the books more.

2) Eomer’s counsel to Theoden during the Muster of Rohan. Before the point of no return in their journey to aid Gondor, Eomer whispers to Theoden, “if you take my counsel you would [stay in Edoras] until the war is over, lost or won.” Pretty cynical advice. Theoden basically tells him to “get thee behind me” and rides out to Gondor and into a glorious end. We also see the conflict between hope and despair in Eomer’s Battle Song:

Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day’s rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope’s end I rode and to heart’s breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!

The theme of the song is eventually resolved in Theoden’s Burial Song:

Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day’s rising
he rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
Hope he rekindled, and in hope ended;
over death, over dread, over doom lifted
out of loss, out of life, unto long glory.

3) My favorite example of hope versus cynicism is the Battle at the Black Gate and the terms the Mouth of Sauron offers. Here’s this ridiculously small army marching to the Enemy’s impenetrable stronghold, all the while calling out (a la Joshua at the walls of Jericho) “The Lords of Gondor have returned and all this land that is theirs they take back!” Yeah, that’ll scare ‘em. But as ridiculous as this tactic is, it’s also beautiful and insanely courageous. Then the Mouth of Sauron comes out and offers them what are surprisingly pretty fair terms of surrender. Seriously!

He tells them they must turn around, drop their weapons, and swear an oath never to attack Sauron again. Okay, that’s pretty standard. Then he says that they have to agree that “all lands east of the Anduin shall be Sauron’s forever.” Well, alright. No big deal. Those lands are pretty much his anyway – aside from Ithilien, but who the hell wants to live next door to Sauron? So let him have it. He goes on, “West of the Anduin as far as the Misty Mountains and the Gap of Rohan shall be tributary to Mordor, and men there shall bear no weapons, but shall have leave to govern their own affairs” – and one more thing, they have to help rebuild Isengard, which is only fair because they’re the ones who destroyed it in the first place. All in all, pretty reasonable terms. They get to maintain their self-rule and all they have to do is pay tribute or taxes and such to Sauron. They have to pay taxes anyway, who cares if it’s to the King or to Sauron? Sure they have to turn in their weapons, but why not – Sauron has promised peace and stability, so what need do they have for weapons?

The prudent thing to do would be to accept the terms and haul your pathetic little army back to Minas Tirith and live out your lives as best you can. Instead, Aragorn and his Captains saw the terms for what they were. The Dark Lord and his Messenger “would be their tyrant and they his slaves.” Not everyone would have seen it that way. Before they even got to the Black Gate, a sixth of their army was too frightened to go on. Aragorn took pity on them and “then some being shamed by his mercy overcame their fear and went on, and the others took *new hope* hearing of a manful deed [i.e. turning back to protect or retake the crossing at Cair Andros] within their measure that they could turn to, and they departed.” (emphasis mine). *New hope*. Always hope.

I think the other great motif in LOTR is Pride vs. Humility. The little lowly hobbits save everyone. The first time I read ROTK, I remember two very specific sections of the book that brought me to tears. The first was when Sam and Frodo, dressed only in their Mordor rags, walk before an assembly of Kings, Princes, Elves, and all the great Men of the West. “And as the hobbits approached swords were unsheathed, and spears were shaken, and horns and trumpets sang, and men cried with many voices and in many tongues: Long live the Halflings! Praise them with great praise!” These little humble nobodies are saluted by the mighty. (And I hate Peter Jackson for not having this scene in his movie!)

The other part of the book that made me cry was the funeral procession of Theoden. In the grand scope of things, the Rohirrim are small potatoes. Their country is what – a couple of hundred years old? In comparison to the Elves and the Men of the West, the Rohirrim are illiterate babies. The Golden Hall is a wood hut compared to the splendor of the White City and the beauty of Rivendell. And yet, the White City wouldn’t be standing if it weren’t for the faithful sacrifice of Theoden and his Eorlingas. And so all the Elves – Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond (we’re talking about people who are tens of thousands of years old!) – and all princes of Gondor and the King of Gondor himself accompany the body of Theoden home to his rest. Again, the mighty are humbled by the lowly. It puts me in mind of a famous quotation that Tolkien referenced in one of his letters: “He has scattered the proud, brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted the humble.” ($20 to the first person who can name the source of that quote. Seriously, I’m good for it.)

Reply to Sound of Horns’ reply:

*Your description of Gaer as Bart Simpson ("Well, this place sure sucks.") made me choke on the coffee I was drinking – that’s how hard I was laughing. I love it. You gotta do it.

*I loved your idea of having Eowyn meet her Gondorian cousins. Write it! Let’s see it.

*As for who might have a less skewed perspective of Denethor, why not Imrahil? Most fanfic writers assume that Imrahil, as Finduilas’ brother, must have hated Denethor. But he doesn’t have to hate him. Maybe they were friends once as young men. And maybe Imrahil witnessed the sad progression of his friend’s despair and maybe it grieved him as well. Just a thought.

*Yes, I took can imagine Faramir wandering around asking, “Where’s my wife?” LOL! Within three months, Eowyn will probably be running the City. BTW, in my review I forgot to mention how delightfully funny I thought it was that Faramir’s son (in his dream) woke him up to tell him, “Mum says it’s time for you to get up and help her.” LOL! I’m sure husbands are woken by those very words on Saturday mornings in homes across the globe.


Author Reply: My reply to your reply: (not all that above it cause I don't have time to read that yet! Please! It's early and I have classes to fail! ;) )

Hee! Gaer is my fav Rohirrim. Oddly I found a site of Rohirric names long after I created him and you know what? Gaer is on there--and I totally made it up. Go me. I must have picked it up somewhere.

As for Eowyn meeting her Gondorian cousins.....well, let's just say I could barely sleep last night I was so excited. All for Her just took a rather sharp turn in its plot. I mean, wow, WOW, this is something that no one, including myself prior to 8:30 last night would have guessed. Lots of angst will result, but much good in the process.

To the plus, more Gandalf/Eowyn scenes! Awesome! I cannot wait to begin...though I will have to rewrite half the chapter, sigh.

Chibi-kazReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/28/2004
Is there not really another chapter up? You tease...;)

I'd really like to see Faramir prove to all these boasting Rohirrim just what being the Captain of the Rangers of Ithilien for 20 years really means! Faramir can really kick butt, we know this (not just from his beating the jerk here), and is an experienced and able commander -- with more experience than Eomer, thank you very much!

I was very pleased to see Eowyn and Faramir laughing together. They don't have enough fun -- all the best relationships have a healthy dose of shared humor. "No laughing, no pointing..." I laughed a ton, sorry Faramir! (remembering bits from film 'Better Than Sex' and sniggering).

Och, I check every day for updates to this story. I hope you post more soon!
Cheers,
Chibi-Kaz

Author Reply: Faramir is totally going to wow them. Just you wait. :D

Faramir and Eowyn really don't laugh enough together--I think that would solve a lot right there. 'Better Than Sex' hee!! I've got that music running through my head, you know, when he's wandering around her place in nothing but itty bitty tighty blackies. Too bad they don't have those in Middle Earth, Faramir goes commando. Ah, lucky Eowyn.

lady of the woodReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/28/2004
Just a quick note to let you know that it's showing that chapter 61 is up but there is no link for it on the site. All we can get is 60.

Hope you are having a good day.
LOTW

Author Reply: Damn. Chapter 61 is just saved to make sure I don't lose it all on a disk. Sorry to get your hopes up! I'll do something with it.

Raksha The DemonReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/28/2004
Crimson said: "Denethor epitomizes the Man of the West without hope. A man of despair. And despair is the ultimate sin in LOTR. The essence of the book is *hope*. JRRT called it "hope without guarantees" -- in other words "a fool's hope." The title of the last book is "The Return of the King," and that king's childhood name meant "hope." The title of the book is "The Return of Hope"! But Denethor is a man without hope. He is the realist who in the end is overcome by the weight of "the Shadow of the East." "

Good point, and in another paragraph, good point about Faramir being drawn to Eowyn because of her resemblance to Denethor in terms of Pride and Despair. But Faramir himself also admitted to living without hope. "What hope have we?...It is long since we have any hope." (in his conversation with Frodo, THE TWO TOWERS) The difference between Faramir and Denethor is that even when Faramir believes there is no hope, he will fight to hold onto whatever can be saved - even if it is only his honor that might be left. In that quality, Faramir is similar to Eomer.

Crimson asked her fellow reviewers what our advice to Faramir would be on whether he should have stayed in Rohan trying to gain the trust of Eowyn and Eomer or given up on a near-impossible and exhausting task and returned to Gondor. I would emphatically advise Faramir to tough it out, at least for awhile longer. Things, or love, worth having, are rarely easy to obtain. And Faramir has been too often set up for failure in his life; he needs to win. There is also the matter of honor; he promised to marry Eowyn and agreed to do so by fulfilling Eomer's conditions. Faramir owes it to himself and Gondor to try as hard as he can to gain his nervous bride. Faramir also needs to cut back on the pressure on Eowyn to go further in the love-making process. She needs to know that she is utterly safe with him, and can be happy in Gondor if she allows herself to be and can stand making some compromises.

Crimson, great review! I also liked your analysis of Eomer's reluctance to allow Eowyn to grow up; this is at the heart of Eomer and Eowyn's relationship as well as Eomer's dislike of Faramir. Especially since Faramir seems to understand Eowyn better and think of her as a young woman rather than a baby sister.

CrimsonReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/28/2004
Great work! I actually held back from reviewing the last two chapters because I wanted to see what you were going with them. You didn't disappoint. You knocked it out of the ballpark. First let me list all the things I loved, and then I'll proceed to some long comments/suggestions.

Things I loved:

*I think Chapter 59 should be known as the "Taken to the Wood Shed" chapter. Eowyn, Eomer, and even Faramir get taken to the wood shed for a much needed whuppin'. Eowyn gets it from Gandalf (loved his not so subtle reference to the "decisive" Morwen Steelsheen. "Hey, Eowyn, your grandmother didn't have a problem making up her mind or uprooting her life to resettle in a strange land!" Good for him for calling her "girl" -- just as insulting as calling a man "boy".) And then Merry opens a big ol' can of whup-ass on Eomer (I love that hobbit!). And finally, the memory of Boromir suddenly inspires Faramir to grow a pair (And what are we to make of Faramir's fear of the knives within Eowyn's reach during their little argument in the kitchen? Hmm...) I love that Boromir inspired Faramir to make a "Trojan War" threat ("I'll just take her! Try to stop me, horse-boy!") And no matter what you might think of Denethor, his whispered "just leave" advice is the voice of rational self-preservation, which quite frankly is often cold and cynical. And even though we should not follow the path of cold self-preservation in all situations (only a Machiavelli or a narcissist would do that), we do need to listen to it from time to time otherwise we'd be trampled on. Call it a survival mechanism. If you had a friend like Faramir who was dealing with a woman like Eowyn who had a brother like Eomer, what advice would you give him? For the sake of argument, let's say that you don't know Eowyn or Eomer personally; so you are just going on your perceptions of them based on what they are putting your friend through. I don't know about you, but I'd probably tell him to "Run! Don't walk! Run! Get out of there now. These people are headcases! This woman has way too much emotional baggage. She'll either drive you to drink or kill you in your sleep.” I invite fellow reviewers to chime in on this? What would you tell him to do, folks?

*I loved Eowyn's reaction to Faramir's emotional shut down. I swear I was having flashbacks to group therapy sessions (hey, I'm a writer; therapy, drinking, and a propensity to spend whole days in your pajamas are all part of the job description.) I have seen that whole "he shuts down emotionally/she pulls away and is afraid" dynamic so many times. As always, your characterizations are very astute!

*I agree with Lady of the Woods, it's not unusual or unreasonable for Faramir to want to make love to Eowyn. Married men often (in fact almost always) equate emotional intimacy, love, and acceptance with sex. "If you love me, you'll have sex with me" coming from a teenage boy is just a con to get in your pants, but when it comes from a 36 year old married men, it's probably (at least 60% chance) a genuine plea for acceptance and emotional intimacy.

*"The King railed back; 'Ceaselessly do I say such pleasing things to you!'" That still makes me laugh. I know I've said this before -- your Aragorn doesn't resemble Tolkien's very much, but damn I love him! He's hilarious. I'm still trying to pinpoint why exactly I find him so funny. I haven't figured it out yet, but whatever it is, just keep doing it.

*Speaking of Aragorn, I really like your Arwen too. She's just as wacky as he is. They seem to fit together. Even so, I suspect that Arwen might be willing to trade men with Eowyn. Methinks the Evenstar might be developing a crush on our good Steward. After all, he's a much better poet.

*Loved Faramir's first test. I half expected him to shout, "F*** it! I'm riding home to Gondor!" And I love Thorn. It reminds me of the main character's horse in "A Man from Snowy River" (saw it on AMC last month). It's this weird looking ugly mountain horse that the other ranch hands make fun of -- that is until it does this insane vertical plunge down a mountain while all their sissy horses stand on the cliff and watch. I have a feeling Thorn is a diamond in the rough too. I could hear him telling Faramir, "Relax, buddy, I'm local. I know the way home." BTW, as I write this, I'm listening to Johnny Cash sing "The Tennessee Stud." I kid you not! "The Tennessee stud was long and lean, the color of the sun and his eyes were green. He had the nerve and he had the blood. There never was a horse like the Tennessee stud..." LOL!

*Your use of Frodo's note-taking as a plot devise to assemble everyone for an unofficial "group therapy" session is a stroke of genius. What a great idea! Very clever of you. You should be proud.

*Pippin as a "pack pony"! LOL!

Thoughts/Comments/Suggestions (take 'em or leave 'em):

*A good friend of mine once explained to me that the person you marry will in some way resemble one of your early primary relationships (mother, father, sibling, etc.) and what attracts you to that person is the challenge that perhaps this time you can make the relationship work -- perhaps you can change them or win their love or somehow rewrite the past. A gal with a reckless abandoning father (or mother) will often be drawn to reckless abandoning men. A man with an emotionally fragile or distant mother (or father) will often be drawn to emotionally fragile women. The woman thinks, "Maybe this time I can make him stay. Maybe this time he will settle down and not leave me." The man thinks, "Maybe this time I can cure her. Maybe this time I can be her savior and she'll love me and not withdraw from me." This leads me to ask, Why was Faramir attracted to Eowyn? It wasn't just the physical thing. Cute only goes so far. I think you nailed it when you described how Faramir was "still just as drawn by her fragile quality, her disheartenment." When Merry first saw Dernhelm's young face and clear grey eyes, JRRT writes that Merry "shivered, for it came suddenly to him that it was the face of one without *hope* who goes in search of death." (emphasis mine).

Hmmm...Proud, cold, full of despair? Who in Faramir's life does this remind you of? Might I suggest Father Dearest? Faramir pursued Eowyn in hopes of winning her love as he had hoped to win his father's. We usually make the obvious comparison of Eowyn with Finduilas; but I think Denethor is a better comparison -- especially considering your introduction of Eowyn's patricide/suicide plan. Let me explain:

Denethor epitomizes the Man of the West without hope. A man of despair. And despair is the ultimate sin in LOTR. The essence of the book is *hope*. JRRT called it "hope without guarantees" -- in other words "a fool's hope." The title of the last book is "The Return of the King," and that king's childhood name meant "hope." The title of the book is "The Return of Hope"! But Denethor is a man without hope. He is the realist who in the end is overcome by the weight of "the Shadow of the East."

Denethor's realism defines him. It's his realism (in part) that makes him paranoid and angry at the thought of Aragorn usurping his power. After-all from Denethor's POV, Aragorn is some rag-tag wanderer from a fallen kingdom in the North. (Notice how many of the Northern Dunedain come to fight with Aragorn? Not many. Undoubtedly because there weren’t that many!) Aragorn's claiming the throne of Gondor was for Denethor like a guy from the mail room suddenly being promoted to CEO. But the ultimate example of Denethor's realism is his reaction to Gandalf's plan of sending the hobbits into Mordor to destroy the Ring. Gandalf's plan is akin to sending two midgets into Nazi-Germany with a suitcase-sized atom bomb which they need to destroy by carrying it all the way to Hitler's underground bunker in Berlin and hiding it under his pillow! What do you think Supreme Allied Commander Dwight David Eisenhower would say to the brilliant lieutenant who, when confronted with the two lost midgets, decided the best course of action was to give them tea and cookies and point them in the direction of Berlin? That's basically what Denethor was dealing with when he confronted Gandalf and Faramir. In light of this analogy, I think he showed remarkable restraint in his comments.

Denethor isn't just crazy or hateful – he's a realist. With the character of Denethor, JRRT is showing the limits of cold realism, which is ultimately without hope – because "only a fool's hope" saves the day. Denethor's disgust with Faramir has to do with Faramir's "hope." Boromir, on the other hand, was an uncomplicated realist like his father. But Faramir follows his own mind and is more solicitous of Gandalf's advice than his own father’s. Boromir obeys. (However, I think that Faramir is in many ways an uncorrupted Denethor.)

I caution against making Denethor two-dimensional. In Chapter 58, Faramir's interpretation of Denethor's motives is exactly what Faramir would think. You portray his thoughts well. But we must remember that it is his interpretation; and however warranted Faramir's anger is, it is still only a part of the picture. Denethor did love his son. It was, in fact, Faramir’s fatal injury that pushed Denethor over the edge into full blown despair. He felt genuine remorse for how he sent Faramir off, and he was convinced that all hope was lost because his sons were gone -- his line of Stewards was ended -- his ancestry of brave and loyal men who held a hopeless country together for centuries with nothing more than a promise of a semi-mythic king who would return someday. Denethor's mad scream, "The West has failed!" is terribly sad. But lest I paint too sympathetic a picture of Denethor, I should also point out the poisonous nature of his pride. The honest pride he deserved to feel as being one of a long line of faithful Stewards was transformed into a paranoid sense of entitlement, an overblown sense of his own power, and an iron-fisted blindness to the wisdom of others. The final and most dreadful expression of that pride is his suicide. Gandalf shouts at him, "Authority is not given you to order the hour of your death! Only the heathen kings, under the domination of the Dark Power, did thus, slaying themselves *in pride and despair*, murdering their kin to ease their own death." (emphasis mine). This is a very Tolkienesque admonishment -- he is unequivocally calling suicide not only cowardly, but also sinful. All of this finally leads me back to my point about Eowyn's correlation to Denethor and her plan to murder Theoden and then kill herself. I think this was a very astute addition you made to her character. It makes sense that she would plan something like this. But it is also grossly immoral in JRRT's world. Just like Denethor and the heathen kings, she would be guilty of "murdering [her] kin to ease [her] own death." Yep, she would tell herself that she was murdering Theoden to put him out of his suffering, but deep down isn't she doing it because she didn’t want Grima to be right in saying that "her pride in her land was foolish, because even the poorest sighted could see they were led by a dumb old man." What thoughts does Grima use to poison her? He attacks her pride by telling her, "What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among their dogs?" Even if she does think she should murder Theoden for his own good, her act would still be terribly wrong. It would be the ultimate sin in JRRT universe -- the sin of despair because hope tells us that anything is possible. And ultimately hope saved Theoden. Eowyn herself is driven to despair again, but finds hope and healing with Faramir.

All of this is to explore why Faramir is drawn to Eowyn. The obvious next question is, Why is Eowyn drawn to Faramir? I have a theory. When Faramir first touches Eowyn's mind, she sees that he is "steadfast, loyal and good." Who else in her life is "steadfast, loyal and good." Don’t laugh! Yes, I am saying that Faramir correlates to Eomer, who has always been loyal, good, true, trustworthy, and safe. Eowyn sees that aspect of Eomer in Faramir. But the change she hopes to inspire in her relationship with Faramir is her need to be allowed to "grow up." Eomer will never let her grow up. With him she is perpetually a little girl that he must protect. In many ways, she is just as afraid of growing up herself. I interpret her retreat back to Eomer's room in Chapter 59 as a retreat into the safety of childhood. Sleeping next to Eomer was safe and familiar, but not healthy (to use a modernism). It was not moving forward in life. She needs to turn more to Faramir. The hobbits in their simple hobbit wisdom realize this, which is why Merry and Pippin chose to have Faramir sit next to them when Eowyn herself couldn't decide. In her dreams, when Eowyn murmurs Faramir's name as Eomer comforted her, it is apparent that this change in her is slowly taking place. I think the definitive expression of "growing up" and moving forward is having children. Every time Eowyn warms more to the idea of children, I see her embracing her future. Children are the obvious universal symbol of hope. At the end of all wars, the warriors go home and have children and buy a home in the suburbs and plant a garden and join the Kiwanis club and live happy boring lives that they love for the very fact that they are boring because when you've survived a war, boredom is a reward. The baby boom and the 1950s are the ultimate example of this phenomenon. Ithilien is the perfect place for Eowyn and Faramir to plant a garden and live happily bored ever after. Ithilien is the Moonland -- the land between sun and shadow. The place of hope renewed. The Garden of Gondor.

One more quick thought on Denethor. Why did Denethor keep Finduilas in Minas Tirith? Why didn't he encourage her to travel to the sea and ease her homesickness? I think it's because he *needed* her. Perhaps he was needy -- just as Faramir is needy at times for Eowyn. Maybe he suffocated her. Just a thought. What do you think?

*I have some thoughts on Eomer and his "arc" in this story. I have a theory about Eomer. If you agree, wonderful! If you don't, please ignore it. My theory is that deep down Eomer feels a sense of guilt and failure in his relationship with Eowyn. His one great duty was to protect his sister. That was the order his parents gave him. Well, if that was his duty, he did a pretty crappy job. On Eomer's watch, Eowyn was stalked and nearly raped by a disgusting man, and then she decided to ride out & kill herself. On Faramir's watch, Eowyn decided to live and now loves and is actually thinking about her future (including children). For all of his worry about Faramir not being able to protect Eowyn, Eomer was remarkably ineffective as a guardian himself. Eventually he has to own up to the fact that Faramir protected Eowyn and brought her healing in a way that he couldn't.

**The following are really random thoughts/questions/comments that I couldn't finesse into anything more cohesive:

*Question: What do other people see when Eowyn & Faramir are mind-talking in the midst of a group of people? I'm thinking in particular about the scene in Aragorn's room when Faramir and Eowyn are recounting their love story. Did everyone else in the room just think they were mooning at each other -- all kissy-kissy? Does anyone notice that they don't seem to talk to each other much? Arwen mentioned that she hardly heard Faramir speak at all. Is that because he's always mind-talking with Eowyn?

*Question: What did Eomer think of the marks Eowyn made on Faramir? What does he think of his little sister's sexual awakening? Is he shocked? Sickened? Bewildered? We know how Eomer feels about Faramir's marks on her, but what about her obvious advances on Faramir? You show us a little of his feelings about this when he hears Eowyn saying Faramir's name in her sleep. Any other thoughts?

*Great job in portraying Faramir’s relationship to Boromir and his reaction to Boromir's temptation. Other fanfic writers tend to portray Faramir as hero-worshiping his brother in an unreflective and frankly immature way. I didn't get that from the books at all. Faramir didn't even seem all that surprised when Sam and Frodo explained to him how Boromir fell into temptation. It was as if he was shaking his head and saying, "I love my brother, but sometimes he's a real idiot." (I've heard so many of my male friends say that about their brothers. Hell, I've heard my own brothers say that about each other!) Basically, you've portrayed Faramir's regard for Boromir as honest and mature affection. Bravo!

*Your Gandalf rocks! I know I've commented on how some of your characters are not very much like Tolkien's (even though I still like them!); but I must say that your Ganfalf is just like JRRT’s!

*Weird random thought: It might do Eowyn good to keep in mind that she has Gondorian blood in her. In fact, in physical stature, she takes after her Gondorian grandmother. From the Appendix, "Eomer was like his fathers before him; but Eowyn was slender and tall, with a grace and pride that came her out of the South from Morwen of Lossarnach, whom the Rohirrim had called Steelsheen." Again we see that word "pride." She's not all Rohirric in her make-up.

*Another thing I thought funny: You have Eowyn as the Betty Grable pin-up girl of the Rohirrim! The soldiers ogle her dresses! LOL! Like the World War II pin-up girls, Eowyn is beautiful but inaccessible to them. Very creative of you.

*Random thought/suggestion (take it or leave it): Faramir might want to tell his new Rohirrim buddies about the significance of the White Tree -- and tell Eowyn as well. It does have real significance! If they think fighting Sauron was tough, try fighting Sauron's big bad older brother!

*Shameless story suggestion: Wouldn't Gaer make a great addition to Ithilien's White Company? I bet he and Beregond would get along famously. Hint, hint...

*I loved how Faramir was preening like a male peacock for Eowyn's benefit, showing off his biceps. Too funny!

*Ridiculous literary aside: Eomer's relationship to Eowyn is beginning to remind me of Quentin & Caddie Compson in Faulkner's "The Sound and the Fury." Please don't let Eomer drown himself in the Anduin. (If he does, then I’ll know the similarities were intentional.)

*Comment as rebuttal to another reviewer: Don't you dare start putting Old English translations in parenthesis after someone speaks in Rohirric. That is so stupid and amateurish. That's like translating the French or Latin phrases interspersed in a New Yorker article. It's insulting the reader by suggesting they're too stupid or unsophisticated to know French or Latin (or in your case, to scroll down the bloody page to read the freakin' translation). Sorry to whoever made that suggestion, but I politely (alright, not so politely) disagree. If scrolling is too taxing -- if "All For Her" is giving you carpal tunnel syndrome -- here's a cure. Copy the translations listed at the bottom of the page. Open Microsoft Word. Paste the translations into a document. Print it out. Now you too can read along with the translations in your hand as you scroll slowly through the story. Sorry for being a smart-a**; but come on, people, let's not get goofy with the suggestions. I mean, what next, is somebody going to ask the author to create a book-on-tape of the story?

*Final Comment: Great work! Keep it coming. I'm so glad you are getting paid to write this story (so to speak). It puts me in mind of my misspent college work-study days as an English tutor. I spent most of my down time playing backgammon for book money. You're much more industrious.

...BTW, I'm writing this very late at night, so please forgive any typos or ramblings...


Author Reply: Hee! I'm glad you reviewed! Almost makes up for miscalculating and waking up WAY too early. Sigh.

Well, as to Eowyn being attracted to Faramir because he reminds her of Eomer--uh, Faramir, circumstancially at least, IS Eomer. At least that's how I've always seen it. The man lost his father (Theoden, Eomund, make your comparison, but Theoden was at relatively the same time as Denethor) AND his brother (Theodred and or Eowyn's almost death). AND he rose to high power from a third place position, something he never expected to do. I think it's eerie. Tolkien created them awfully close in that way. (BTW, if I don't get some Eomer giving Faramir the stink-eye in ROTK, I will not be responsible for my actions! Damn you PJ!)

And Eomer did do a crappy job in protecting Eowyn. He knows it, and she knows it, too, deep down. And later he will deal with that in some bonding with Faramir. LOL, I just have to get to it! Faramir will eventually rebel against his peaceful nature and they will have an out and out. Fight? I don't know. More like a shouting match. They are overdue.

HA! Send Gaer to Gondor? Excellent idea! I planned on having him go to help deliver the horses, but to stay a while might be awesome. Beregond is in this story, he's been in the Ithilien parts for a long time as well as his son (whose name I shamefully can't remember). Their meeting might be scary, lol. I'm picturing Gaer with his hands on his hips, a la Bart Simpson, "Well, this place sure sucks."

Well, the mind-talking I'm not sure--they definitely turn to each other, maybe lock eyes, hehe, moony, yes. Arwen has mentioned Faramir doesn't talk much and when he and Eowyn are happy, he doesn't. The last chapters had less mental communication because their minds were too awhirl. They couldn't bond that way. Eomer noticed them looking at each other and Faramir looking relieved. He's actually the one who notices this the most because he's focused upon his sister. That's why I revealed Faramir's gift--I felt it would be worse if he just noticed and noticed and got more and more paranoid. Eomer's not dumb, just stubborn. Aragorn has told Faramir to lay off--exactly what Gandalf said a long time ago in the gardens. Both times Faramir has disregarded this because the mental comm. is his best bet with Eowyn.

LOL! Yes, the soldiers love Eowyn. Faramir's going to find out just how much when he gets bombarded with questions! Hee! "So, what's she look like under that dress...?"

Eowyn's Gondorian roots are going to slap her in the face (not literally, lol, though I would like for her to punch some of those women! Scandalous!) when she meets her cousins in Minas Tirith. Theoden had two other sisters, after all, and other members of that family lived in the City... They won't be like her, but I do think it would be important for her to meet them.

Eomer's thoughts on Eowyn's sexual awakening are, I think, most brothers--"Eww." He doesn't want details, that's for damn sure. I don't think he's terribly horrified, but I do think he would like it if Faramir laid off a bit. Mainly I think it startles him--he's not used to it, not used to thinking about it and Eowyn might be unconsciously knowing this, i.e, her high-collared gown.

I'm glad you liked Gandalf. You know what? He was damned hard to write. :D Bastardly old wizard. Frodo's whole bits were much easier.

Denethor, oh, Denethor...why couldn't you have LIVED? All I have to work with is Faramir's admittedly skewed perspective...or do I? Aragorn maybe? He was Thorongil, after all, in the City. I'll have to think on it.

Thorn is an adaptation of a two horses I know--my own horse and another gelding. They can be naughty, or pains in the ass, but in a pinch I would trust these horses with my life and have on several occasions when the ride got rough. To quote a well-known Natural Horseman--"A horse is four legs with an attitude." Most people tend to think a horse is like a 4 wheeler, point and go. Hee, I see a lot of beginners and they talk big until they are mounted up and it dawns on them that this is one big animal that is totally going to take advantage of them. "Dead broke" horses don't exist unless they are blind, deaf and lame. Thorn is going to help Faramir a lot--he knows stuff, he's been around, he's "a local". lol Unfortunately horses that know that much about humans tend to be the worst--they can outguess you a mile away...but they can save your ass. Thorn, I think, will do both quite nicely.

Okay, last things I've remembered--the White Tree might be part of Faramir's Story Time in Rohan, hee! The Rohirrim are going to be like puppies, all questioning and jumping and running around him. I think Denethor smothered Finduilas and Faramir's going to have to watch out for that, he's treading dangerous ground already at times. Eowyn's really going to get independent in Gondor with her building Ithilien (not that she knows about YET, sigh, Eomer, she's a grown woman) and Faramir's going to look around and go, "Where's my wife?" Ah, it will be good for her to get independent.


DrakeReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/25/2004
Wow! This, and the last chapter, were just terrific!

I'm really glad Faramir and Eowyn are getting closer and closer to each other. It was excrutiating, see Faramir trying so hard to win her complete trust and love only for Eowyn to falter. I'm not saying I'm blaming Eowyn either; I completely understand considering her past with Grima, as well as the fact that she has to deal with the fact that she is a grown woman and must grow to accept her maturity (If that makes sense at all).

It took me a second to figure out exactly what on earth that Rohir was saying to Faramir, but once I figured it out, I was like, "Good lord!" That *was* quite an insult to Faramir, and I'm surprised he didn't chose right then beat the guy senseless. At least he did do *something* in the end. I would have knocked the guy's teeth out, if he insulted someone I cared about in such an obscenely offensive manner.

I love your Frodo. Haven't seen him much until these last couple of chapters, but he seems just as thoughtful and wise as he should. What he said about Boromir was just beautiful.

I saved this for last. Mostly because I've been trying to think of what I want to say on it, but..... That whole bit with Faramir showing himself to Eowyn. I sympathize with him, I truly do. Though I admit the whole stomach roll thing seemed a bit odd to me, but the way you explain the reasoning behind it makes sense. Anyway, I feel sorry for him, because I understand the desire to feel just as appreciated by Eowyn as he appreciates her. Thinking back upon an earlier conversation of ours and expounding upon it, yes, I can understand how men aren't exactly built to be desirable. In fact, I understand that we may appear cumbersome or silly looking. But still, to know that a lover may think that you look funny can be terribly hurtful. I truly hope that as their relationship progresses she'll find him more desirable that funny. It would be a huge confidence boost for Faramir, that's for sure, and if anything he needs confidence in himself.

On a personal note, I have to say he's a very brave man nonetheless. I could never put myself of display like that. I'd feel like a damned fool, and since everyone who is a member of the SoA group knows what I look like, I'm sure everyone knows why I would.

Great story, and I hope to see more soon.

Author Reply: I get what you're trying to say about Eowyn. It makes perfect sense about her growing up and realizing her maturity. :D It's part of what I'm trying to do.

Lol. It was a horrible, horrible insult. I was cringing while writing it but I felt it would take such an obscene one to really bring out his full aggression.
It's odd, everyone seems to like my Frodo and he's a nice character. Odd, I say, because I don't like Frodo. He's just not my favorite but I am glad I can *apparently* write him in a respectful manner. Personally I was sad there was no parting remarks between Faramir and Sam but Sam does come to Gondor in the future.

All right, I fully agree with you that Faramir really had to have guts to show himself like that AND do something as silly and immature and OOC as the stomach roll--which shows his desperation (later he'll do something equally dumb and Eowyn will call him out, resulting in a nice talk that clears up yet more noncommuncative issues).
And yes, I totally agree--Faramir was feeling a little hurt since all she was doing was giggling at him. And, well, a *naked* man is silly. It's the, uh, groin area that provokes the amusement. Shirtless, underwear, etc, isn't so funny.
That's a just relatively small problem, though. Don't worry, he'll get confidence in other areas and then Eowyn will give him that reassurance that she does find him very attractive. Faramir's time amongst the Rohirrim will build confidence--he's got Gaer to shore him up at every moment and his experiences will really show him he's a man who *can* handle everything and learn to laugh it off like his new friends. Yay, I can't wait to write it all. :D
...the only problem is what is Faramir and Eowyn's relationship going to be like when they meet again as slightly different people than when they parted? Because while he's out with the boys she's stuck with Arwen and learning about Gondor women...



RAKSHA_THE_DEMONReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/23/2004
"What? The man can't be playful and silly? Hey, maybe he GOT that from Boromir. BTW, picturing Eomer or the hobbits doing that is cracking me up. lol
Oh, well. Trust me, there will be plenty of mystery, and what exactly is so bad about a few minutes of nakedness? Cause that's basically all it was. Neither got to explore or anything or even touch. Course Faramir's done more touching, but still. Lots left! (and much, much won't be until after the marriage since Faramir won't be around and other things)"

I probably should have clarified that I couldn't see Faramir do the stomach-roll now, at this point in his relationship with Eowyn. I could see him doing it a few months or a year after their marriage, when they were more physically and sexually comfortable with each other. I don't think Faramir has a "silly" bone in his body; but I do think he could be self-deprecating and playful. But at the time you wrote the moment, it just did not ring true to me.

Umm, Faramir and Eowyn have done a lot more, sexually, then just play 'You show me yours and I'll show you mine'. They've gone way beyond just a few minutes of nakedness in prior chapters.

Anyway, I hope Eomer does get around to checking out Faramir's progress with the Rohirrim. I have visions of Eomer thinking Faramir will have alienated everyone and be sitting bruised and alone in a corner; only to find the Riders and Faramir sitting around a campfire toasting marshmallows and Faramir teaching them some improper Gondorian drinking songs.

Can't wait 'til the next chapter.


Author Reply: All right, well, this is going to be addressed later but Faramir's "silliness" was a rather desperate bid in his ongoing attempts to get Eowyn comfortable. To him she can't be afraid if she's laughing, so...he essentially goes out on a limb and makes a fool out of himself. Hey, it worked.

Yes, they have gone further but what I really meant and maybe didn't say (it was rather early and before coffee, sorry!) was that there is so much more to go. Naturally the wedding night isn't going to reveal every single little experience. All the heavy petting and so forth of before certainly wasn't trivial and I haven't forgotten it, sorry if what I wrote came out like that. However much of that, in fact, is at an end--there's going to be precious little time or privacy in the near future. What they will do is running more on the lines of fluff. :) About time for some fluff.

lol on the visions of Faramir and improper Gondorian songs. I'm not sure exactly what Eomer has in mind BUT it's not going to be what he finds. Too bad they don't have marshmallows in Middle Earth. :D

Raksha The DemonReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/22/2004
I wanted to mention a couple of things:

I really liked the paragraph at the beginning, where Faramir saw the natural beauty of his surroundings and we saw his poetic side emerge.

I seem to be the only one who didn't much care for Faramir's stomach roll shenanigans. Not that it wasn't humorous, or would have been if one of the hobbits, or Eomer, or Boromir (when he lived) had done it. It just did not seem like something the Faramir I remember from the books would do. I can maybe see him doing the muscle-flexing thing.

The only thing I don't like about all these sensual moments with Faramir and Eowyn is that there will really be no, or little mystery left for their wedding night.

I still feel bad for Faramir; with Gandalf going, he's pretty much on his own and doesn't really have any allies who have known him for longer than a couple of months. (where did Imrahil go anyway?) I'm glad that he's got a couple of friends among the Rohirrim. Looking forward to seeing him out riding with them, away from depressing interludes with Eomer and Eowyn.

A major plus, if I'm reading the story right, is that Eowyn seems to have finally opened up in a major way to Faramir and revealed her fears (natural in a young and motherless woman) of becoming the Princess of Ithilien and a mother. If she backslides again, it will be disappointing. And I'm also pleased that Faramir realizes he's been pushing Eowyn too hard. While it is natural that a man in love would want to make love to his lady, especially a man as emotionally bereft as Faramir; they don't live in the 21st century and people in the exalted positions of Prince-Steward of the greatest realm in Middle-earth and Princess-heir of the King of Rohan would feel like they had to wait until marriage to satisfy their passion. Or at least not go quite as far as these two have gone already...

Hope that you update soon!




Author Reply: What? The man can't be playful and silly? Hey, maybe he GOT that from Boromir. BTW, picturing Eomer or the hobbits doing that is cracking me up. lol
Oh, well. Trust me, there will be plenty of mystery, and what exactly is so bad about a few minutes of nakedness? Cause that's basically all it was. Neither got to explore or anything or even touch. Course Faramir's done more touching, but still. Lots left! (and much, much won't be until after the marriage since Faramir won't be around and other things)

Eowyn did open up and I havent got any plans of her backsliding. Now's the time, that when they meet again, to cultivate some real, deep roots of trust and their love.

Well, as far as the lovemaking, it was a request and one he really felt halfway on as to a positive answer. In fact, I'll just go out and say that Faramir probably wouldn't have done it even if he'd gotten a yes. Course, when he was thinking that all we had was Eowyn freaking out a bit.

There will be few depressing interludes with the Rohirrim, I can tell you that much. It's happy time.

MysteriousWaysReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/22/2004

I read most of this story in three days, reading near non-stop. Caught up in the spell of it, I was only marginally aware of things that did not sit quite right for me.

For starters some of the conflicts are being strung out way too far. For example the disagreement between Aragorn and Arwen, I lost patience with that because I was not getting in solid clues as to why she was ticked. She was starting to come off as a spoiled child of 16 not a woman far older than that.

The sensuality between Faramir and Eowyn. For the most part it is brilliantly done. But there are some points at which they get arouse where I feel it demeans the emotional growth that they are having at the moment. In this chapter, I think it would have been far more meaningful if Eowyn’s moment of confiding in Faramir had either stopped the sexual play entirely, or had been kept separate from it.

The Faramir stripping scene had two emotional growth moments. Faramir having the epiphany that Eowyn may be able to better accept their shared sensual feelings if he allows her to have her way with him, was a brilliant bit, but nearly lost when it is sharing physical set up with Eowyn revealing what worm tongue had done. These two lovely emotional growth moments had to share a spotlight and they took attention from one another.

I can’t quit decide if you should have had Faramir showing more balls before now. He was looking really wimpy before and I was about to lose interest, but then when you have him come out swinging in this chapter, it added weight to the description of his being cold. I am intrigued, and that scene alone renews my waning interest in this story.

Over all I think you are doing very well. You might consider breaking some of the chapters into two. I would love you forever if you would put the translations in the main body of the story. Say in parenthesis at the end of the relevant paragraph?

Still, all good. I do like this story. If it were not intelligent I would likely not bother reading it. And I have to hand it to you, your sensual scenes are imaginative and provocative, without being crass and crude. THAT is not easily done.

MysteriousWays- I bet you wish I had kept quiet.


Author Reply: Well, I can't say much to defend myself and I'm not even sure I should. lol, initally I was "Wait, wait! But you liked it!" Now, all I know is that, well, if you think the story has its bad points, then fine. I've had complaints about the Aragorn/Arwen situation and also people who seem to like it because they are conflicting and aren't shown in constant perfect bliss. The lack of clues was fairly intentional--what reason did Arwen have to open herself to Eowyn, a woman she barely knows albiet through friends and deed? Why should Aragorn know exactly how to deal with her through every single situation? I wish you'd been able to wait a bit longer, I'm actually resolving that conflict very soon.
All for Her is not a race, I'm trying to avoid driving my characters like horses straight up and over each problem.
As for the Faramir stripping scene--well, the stripping itself was not meant to be sexual until he got down to his shirt and breeches and changed his line of questioning entirely. I see what you mean about Faramir's revelation and Eowyn's confiding and they were were related to me. He is realizing this slowly (he thinks about her backsliding after she's led him away from Gaer) and it is basically confirmed for him. So Faramir decides to lighten the mood with a little fun, though we do not have his POV, only Eowyn's and she is surprised. God, don't tell me you didn't find it funny!
Lots of readers have wanted a ballsier Faramir and well, what I wrote, I wrote. He's being cautious, careful, feeling his way out in a strange culture. He could have knocked the teeth out of those men on the way to Rohan but he didn't. Somehow I think that would have been more in line with Boromir. Now, with this fight, he's broken the barrier thats held him back so far and Faramir's on his way...to what? Hell, I don't even know, but it's definitely put a giant dent in his gentleman's armor.
If Faramir's description of being cold during the fight is the only thing holding you then I'm afraid I have to say goodbye because he's going straight back to normal, only THIS time he's got Gaer AND respect.
Thank you about the sensual scenes--they take a lot of effort. About the length of the chapters, well, they wouldn't come any faster. The main reason they are so long is that the Chapter List only covers up to 150 and I'm rather concerned at 60, lol. So, it is mainly to conserve space.
I know looking down for the translations must be annoying and I really have to weigh the annoyance of scrolling down with the breakage in the story. I don't know. I'll think on it.
All in all, I like my story and I'm glad you didn't keep quiet--you've brought up points for whenever I get around to editing this monster.


Lady of The WoodReviewed Chapter: 60 on 9/22/2004
Wow I got Faramir/Eowyn goodness in a chapter titled "Faramir on His Own". Excellent! Thank you, thank you for Faramir kicking some butt and he did it in his own way. I agree with you I can't see Faramir taking pleasure in a fight especially when the insult was to his mother. Nicely done. I love the bit at the end of the fight when you describe Eowyn looking at Faramir's mane of hair. It conjured up a nice visual.

Gandalf...I love him and that scene with Faramir was just perfect.

As I said above I liked the scene with Eowyn and Faramir. Very funny and nice to see the two of them laughing together. The stomache roll was priceless. I'm glad that Eowyn opened up. Good for her!

I'm eargerly awaiting Faramir's time with the Rohirrim.

Keep up the good work.
LOTW

Author Reply: I dreaded writing the fight until I did it and now I like it. I had to really wait for inspiration but I do think it was the perfect approach, very Faramir in that he didn't enjoy it. The insult made me cringe.

Hee! The stomach thing was great! I recently watched Duece Bigalo, Male Gigolo (and laughed my ass off, surprisingly) so I was primed for some Faramir jumping around. Too bad Eowyn doesn't have anything resembling a pole in her room....I swear, I would do it. Faramir was too cute in that scene--he's gonna do more like that as soon as he figures out Eowyn really likes it, as any girl would! It's funny, it's cute and there's no pressure on her. The "playthings" was fun, as well. It's true, Faramir's being awfully selfish and not sharing, lol.

Next chapter is going to be split with Faramir w/Rohirrim and Eomer and Eowyn in Edoras and the fellowship and everyone leaving. Sad. Hopefully Eomer will soon get out there and see how Faramir's doing--I think he will be very surprised. :D

First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page

Return to Chapter List