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Long Memories  by Bodkin 12 Review(s)
LarnerReviewed Chapter: 1 on 9/1/2008
This must have been posted during one of my prolonged bouts of computer glitches! It is marvelous, Bodkin--so very delightful at last to learn how it was that two war-weary Elves had managed to irritate one another to the point of distraction and nearly to the point of blows, each taking out his own internal rage at what he'd been forced to see and experience on the other. I truly find myself feeling for Taryatur and Oropher both.

And the frustration that the long mutual hatred may be ended as his daughter and Oropher's grandson open to one another--it must be warring with the secret desire to see that undeclared war finished after years of distance-enforced non-combatance.

Ah, Taryatur has so much to learn now--and all the time in the world to learn how to actually live with this grandson to the self-declared wood elf.

How glad I am to have read this at last!

Agape4GondorReviewed Chapter: 1 on 5/10/2008
I thought I had reviewed this but discovered I had not. Thankfully, I kept my notes. Sorry for the delay. I had six 'oh my's and one oh dear with a bunch of happy and sad smiles. Here goes!

The level of disdain was horrid and brilliant at the same time. First oh my came at Taryatur's dogs and fleas comment. And the 'prattle' quote was seering along with the reference to the Kin-slaying. And when I found out it was Oropher - yikes! I am glad Erior was about - I loved the whole section about Oropher's wife and his need for her - along with his need to 'pound every Noldor' into mud. Interesting and very sad. This whole section was excellent!

I loved the 'suffocating heap of differences' - the phrase not the actions and words of the Elves. They do not present themselves well, do they?

I ROTFL when I read about Maltheniel's thinking regarding the Noldo. (general wonderfulness *giggles*)

Another 'oh my' with the 'unclean' comment! So telling with one word... And Celebrimbor's angst at the thoughts of his family. How very sad indeed. Another 'sad face' with the 'I am sorry' line. The whole thought of all those families sundered and the pain and grief, anger and frustration. Almost too much to bear, for this mortal woman reading!

The ending was great with Legolas, though my heart broke at the thought of the final passing of Gimli... I loved the last paragraph!

Bless you - this was great! May I nominate it for the MEFA's???

Author Reply: I'm so glad you enjoyed it - feel free to nominate it if you want to! I think one of the real downsides to immortality must be the probability of acquiring so much pain that you can hardly make sense of how you feel about people. Maltheniel is so young and optimistic that she can see people as they are - and the best and worst of them all. Taryatur, on the other hand - and Oropher ... they have grudges that it will take ages to erode. But I suppose the plus side to immortality is that they have those ages - and, hopefully, by the end of days, they will have grown past pettiness.

Thank you, Agape. I am being so totally appalling about replying to reviews these last months - but I will get to them. When I've finished that next chapter of Finrod and Amarie. Probably!!

EllieReviewed Chapter: 1 on 10/15/2006
"His hands were not altogether steady, Taryatur noted, and the wine shivered in his glass like the sea blown by a strong wind. And it was not as if he had an answer. How could he tell his wife of over two ages that the sight of the ellon brought back the stench of burning carcasses and the screams of Morgoth’s abominations in the sky? How could he tell her of the terror of the wild sea and the drowning land? The endless days camped out in spirit-sapping mud with far too many bewildered refugees. Experiences that could never be shared with any who had not been there – and that remained unspoken among fellow veterans. Resentments and petty irritations that had ended up focused in a dislike of a single elf, an elf with the same gleaming hair as this ellon.

He would fight it, he determined. He would fight it as long as he could in the hope that this twist of fate could be averted. Yet, as he watched the brightness of his daughter’s face, he felt a web of spider silk tightening round his resisting form and a sinking feeling of helplessness come over him. Events over which he had no control might be conspiring to settle an enmity millennia old by binding together his house with that of the Greenwood’s long-departed King. Whether he liked it or not."

These two paragraphs summed up things very well for Taryatur.
Absolutely incredible story.
So much tension and turmoil and such a great social comemntary on the Moriquendi and Calaquendi.


WEll done! Well done.

Author Reply: Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed this. Poor Taryatur started as a bit of a joke - but he has developed into a very real person for me. One who has suffered for a very long time and needs to have his wounds healed. I think that Legolas's friendship will be very good for him - and a veteran bond with Oropher might be the best thing of all. But we'll have to see about that!

(And don't you just think that the Moriquendi and the Exiles might just have resented those blessed elves who sailed to their rescue? Even if they were needed.)

KittyReviewed Chapter: 1 on 3/2/2006
Sorry, I only now got around to read this and am terribly behind with reviewing your stories, but I will try to catch up a bit.

Good idea to write this story! Now I can understand so much better why Taryatur was so furious that his daughter married Oropher’s grandson! The both of them behaved quite childish back then in the First Age. And I thought Thranduil and Galadriel were bad! *shakes head* They are all full of prejudices, aren’t they?

So Linevende was a cousin of Feanor? Interesting! That means Legolas’ wife is a distant relation to the twins, in addition to Celeborn being a cousin of Thranduil :-)

And I was touched that Celebrimbor gave Taryatur the little package for his family, thinking he would never see them again. I hope Taryatur held his promise and delivered it. Now you’ve me wondering if Celebrimbor will be reborn, too. Although I still not have read the Silmarillion, as far as I know from the fanfictions he was not evil, but was deceived by Sauron, and so he should be allowed to be reborn sometimes, I suppose, if he wants it. Poor guy - he made mistakes, but as grandson of Feanor he was in a difficult situation, no matter what he did.

But you know, this calls for another sequel. Now I wonder what will happen when the reborn Oropher meets Taryatur! Hopefully Valinor (and poor Legolas!) will survive it *grin*

Author Reply: Thank you for reviewing at all! It's lovely to hear from you.

Linevende wasn't actually related to Feanor but to his wife - although I did toy with the thought of connecting her family to Feanor's mother. I haven't totally decided on the closeness of the relationship - but I think that she is the granddaughter of Nerdanel's completely non-canon younger sister. Which means that there is no blood relationship with either Elrond's family or Galadriel's, but they are merely cousins of cousins, with the connection being the sons of Feanor. Not, really, relations you would want to claim after Alqualonde.

Poor Taryatur and Oropher were both in rather a state of - I suppose it's sort of post-traumatic shock. Taryatur has come over from the Blessed Realm to be immersed in war and killing: Oropher is more familiar with battle, but has just lost his home to the waves - and they are now left semi-idle while the lords debate what comes next. And they have settled on each other as the focus of their frustrations. Childish - but they have no reason to believe they will ever be forced to deal with each other again. (Little do they know!)

I've also settled in my head that although Taryatur went home and married Linevende, it was a very long time before he felt ready to have children - Camentur and Elerrina weren't born until the Third Age - and they were much loved and treasured. (Elerrina is older than Legolas - in case you're interested - by about 1000-1500 years. Although he has a much wider experience of the dark side of life. Miriwen is a couple of thousand years younger than Elladan and quite close to Legolas in age - they were elflings together - and I haven't decided about Siriwen. I think she's younger than Elrohir, but I'm not sure. Her parents might have sailed at the end of the Second Age - and she might have been born about the same time as Arwen.)

Celebrimbor jumped out here and made himself much more of a character than I initially intended. And I do feel sorry for him - he had very little choice other than to follow his grandfather, and he did make a stand against the downward spiral Feanor's sons seemed to get themselves into. His joy was creating things - and I can see how Annatar's apparent love and approval would be very comforting for one in Celebrimbor's position. He deserves to return - and be happy.

There is something digging at me at the moment - more when Legolas met Elerrina and how Taryatur reacted - but I'm sure that Oropher and Taryatur will meet again. I just hope it's been raining hard, so the forest doesn't spontaneously catch fire!

Kathy_SFFReviewed Chapter: 1 on 2/20/2006
I always wondered why Legolas had such problems with his father-in-law. Thanks, I loved it.

Author Reply: Taryatur has had two ages plus for his prejudices to set in stone - it's going to take him a while for the concrete to crack so that he can see the elf under the shadow of his family tree! They will get there eventually - time being one thing they have in plenty!

Thank you - I'm glad you liked it.

NilmandraReviewed Chapter: 1 on 2/20/2006
Oh my, proof that grown elves can act as terrible as junior high aged humans. I am surprised their kings did not assign them to permanent latrine duty.

I did like Celebrimbor... the sadness and obvious longing for those he missed was poignant. I hope that he of all of the Feanorians was allowed to be reembodied and rejoin his kin.

Poor Legolas... related in two ways now.

Author Reply: I think both Taryatur and Oropher were quite careful to keep their private war to themselves (and their friends). Taryatur wouldn't have wanted his king to see this - and Oropher knew better than to let his wife know just how badly he was behaving! But they were both far from home and emotionally less than they would normally have been ... and you know how it is once these things start. Neither of them was prepared to be seen to be the one to back down.

Poor Celebrimbor. Damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Whatever he chose was going to end in him letting someone down. I can see how Annatar would have had an attraction to someone who had lost his whole family and could not help but feel betrayed by those around him. Annatar would only have had to offer him apparently unconditional approval and admiration and it would be like basking in his the love of his family again - and I'm sure Annatar knew it straight away. I think he would have been re-embodied in time - he was mistaken but not of evil intent and he died in defence of others. Might have taken a while though - his death must have been terribly traumatic.

And it is going to take Legolas a while to break down two ages worth of prejudice. But I have faith in him. He's been well-brought-up!

lwarrenReviewed Chapter: 1 on 2/20/2006
You know, it's one thing when a couple of grown men start acting like children - but when two fully adult, warrior (no less!) elves get their hackles all in an uproar and start slinging all those 'compliments' around, it really boggles the mind! :-) But what a wonderful backstory explaining the trouble Legolas has had with his in-laws, papa-in-law in particular! Poor elf, he didn't even do anything! And of course, you included so much more in this - Taryatur and Oropher both seem to be suffering from battle fatigue, at the very least! I'm sure that doesn't help. The interaction with Celebrimbor is also very touching - I've often felt moderately sad for him...he didn't seem to use much wisdom in his association with Annatar, but to come to such an end! Terrible and sad, too! Taryatur and Oropher - what a pair! Are they going to meet finally, in the Blessed Realm, now that Oropher has returned? I want a front row seat for the fireworks (that is, unless these two have done some major growing up over the Ages!) Great story, Bodkin, as always!


Author Reply: It's not a good time for them - they've had the trauma of war, the sinking of Beleriand - followed by peace, overcrowding, loss of purpose and an excess of political debate. While they had a common enemy, it was all right - but, once Morgoth was gone, they had no-one to carp at but each other. And once you introduce the descendants of Feanor into the equation, Taryatur and Oropher's dislike of each other was inevitable.

I was just thinking about Celebrimbor and Annatar - and came to the conclusion that Annatar was able to offer Celebrimbor exactly what he needed. Not just the knowledge, but the approval of an all-knowing power who could see him and approve of him in a way that no-one had since before the death of the Trees. And Annatar's betrayal would compound the damage done to him by his grandfather, father and uncles.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find that Taryatur and Oropher meet. Not just yet, though. I don't know about them, but I'm not ready for it yet!

Thank you. I'm glad you liked it!

AliceReviewed Chapter: 1 on 2/20/2006
Well this explains a lot. Poor Legolas, doing the time for his grandfather's crimes. I thought you did a good job of showing why normally good (if not easy to get along with) people could act like such jerks to each other. Honestly. Such big babies, the both of them. I really want to know how the first time they met as in-laws went. I'm going to go with not well. Oh, and can I say how much I enjoyed seeing young Thranduil? He's definitely more light-hearted and mischievious than he is in later years. I think we can all see where Legolas gets his love of trouble streak.

Author Reply: I'm sure the meeting between Oropher and Taryatur will come - but not just yet. I need to build up my strength!

They were behaving foolishly - but they were both under considerable strain at the time. They had just come out of fighting a war, seen Beleriand sink and were stuck in an uncomfortable environment with far too many other people and not enough to do. Petty disagreements can spin out of that only too easily!

Thranduil was young enough for it to be more of a game to him - no-one expected him to take responsibility for anything. I have him older than Elrond, but not by that much.

Thank you - this was fun to write. It's been waiting on the must-do pile for a while now!

elliskaReviewed Chapter: 1 on 2/19/2006
This is funny and sad at the same time. Funny for obvious reasons (poor Legolas) and sad because it is too close to reality--I can easily imagine something just like this happening between many individuals after the War of Wrath. But Oropher is the most likely candidate, isn't he? *Smirk*

Some lines I loved:

And she is as obdurate as granite She certainly was.

Most of the Noldor Exiles are only too ready to come back with their tails between their legs like whipped puppies – and the Moriquendi will flock behind them like the fleas on a dog. But he was wrong here - it wouldn't only be Oropher whose Sindar blood would boil hearing statements like that.

they seem to think I am speechless with admiration for their general wonderfulness. Hehehe. She is so unimpressed. I loved this.

The encounter with Celebrimbor was very sad to me--the idea of what he lost. He is another one I always felt sorry for. He did not follow his father's treason in Nargothrond. He did not make the rings knowing what would happen. And his end was horrible. I felt for him here.

And Thranduil's conversation about the sea was really fascinating: Think of it as a hunter – relentlessly swallowing it prey. It stole our home, I can so see Thranduil saying that.

But who is to know what counts?’ Eriol looked thoughtful. ‘It often turns out to be the last thing you expect. And that is certainly the final word. As I said, Poor Legolas. This was a great backstory, Bodkin!

Author Reply: Poor Oropher! That 'headstrong' tag does stick to him! And this must have been a hard time for them all. Beleriand's gone - so the removal of Morgoth has a bitter twist to it - and there is no longer a common enemy. I'm sure they all got on better when they had the same person to fight. Now they are just left remembering what it is that they don't like about each other.

I can't blame Finarfin for wanting to take his daughter home - or her for wanting to stay with Celeborn. And I'm sure her father lingered a little longer in the hope of getting her to change her mind.

Yes - Taryatur's comment there is enough to infuriate pretty well all of the Sindar. Tact is not his middle name. (Although of course lots of Sindar did sail!) I think Taryatur shows rather too much antipathy towards the Exiles. Makes me wonder why - perhaps he felt guilty for not following Feanor. And yet, having seen the devastation left behind and all the broken families, perhaps he resents them for having caused so much trouble in Aman. Maybe he and Oropher should share their feelings about the Exiles - they might find they have something in common.

Maltheniel and Thranduil graciously agreed to turn up and add a bit of humour to the story - and made me wonder if any of the Host decided to stay east of the sea for the love of an elleth. Or whether any war brides would have sailed west. Maltheniel wouldn't have been among them, though!

I too feel sorry for Celebrimbor. How could he have refused to follow his father and grandfather? And in eventually breaking away from his father, he became an outsider to everyone. I can see how Annatar's arrival and apparent admiration would be a balm to him. I hope he is eventually returned to live in Aman, even if the rest of Feanor's family doesn't make it back before the end of days.

Thranduil wouldn't want to be losing any more to the sea! And it doesn't impress him.

Famous last words! Poor Legolas, having to try to chip away prejudices that have been set in concrete for over two ages. But I expect he'll manage. Or, maybe, that Eleniel and Galenthil will open the first crack. And freeze-thaw weathering will do the rest.

Thank you - glad you liked it.

RedheredhReviewed Chapter: 1 on 2/19/2006
Oh dear, I am grinning so hard my cheeks are beginning to hurt!

What a marvelous backstory! This explains everything! Poor Legolas, condemned through no fault of his own! :D This was a delightful read, as well. I love your use of words to convey thoughts and feelings; the usual beautiful descriptions of the people and landscapes. This story is a great lesson on what seperates the Amanyar and Umanyar peoples.

Oropher's and Taryatur's first encounter says it all, does it not? They each needed a focus and easily found it. But, the joke was on them. Hmmm, maybe joke is not quite right. True irony is not always funny.

You really brought across the underling sentiments of each and the whole idea that the differences needlessly obscured their similarities. Their individual friends were simply wonderful foils and keepers. Each one nicely drawn out. Interesting peek at how Thranduil has been taught to be more tolerant. Oropher's dad might have been even worse than he.

Here's a cheer for poor Celebrimbor, too. All good men, as they say. All three are suffering from the guilt that they are not living up to their ideals. But, each, Taryatur especially, just cannot get over his own self-righteousness. None of them actually lacks compassion.

The whole thing about the dwarf had me falling out of my chair with laughter! Taryatur being bashful about his understanding with Linevende and her possible disappointment with him made him adorable. Not that he would admit it was bashfulness. And Oropher's tendency to pick up enemies like burrs - well, let us be clear - was not among his own people. Just the Golodhrim. ;)

So, the father-in-laws have not yet met in Aman, but this first encounter was certainly full of entertaining fireworks. Now, that Oropher is there - and they are both a little more... mature? - perhaps they can bury the hatchet without it being in each others skull. For the children's sake, you know.

Love they both, *grumpy* as they are! Like Legolas and Gimli, they could be even better friends then enemies precisely because of their differences. Why are you laughing? Sure, they could!

Author Reply: Not a good moment for Taryatur and Oropher to meet! They could - perhaps - have become friendly if they had met over the bodies of a few orcs. But Morgoth is chained, the orcs are on the run, Beleriand is below the waves - and the Host of the Valar and the elves of Ennor are stuck with little to do, overcrowded and uncomfortable while their leaders decide what to do next. It's only surprising that there weren't more ... well, not kin-slayings, perhaps, but kin-snarkings. Kin-thumpings.

And any strong elleth married to Oropher in his awkward moments would do her best to teach her son to be rather more tolerant. And, actually, observation might to the same job!

Poor Celebrimbor - what chance did he have to follow another path! And when he did refuse to follow, he became estranged from such family as he had. It's no wonder that Annatar's cunning little plan of offering admiration and support would win him. Emotionally vulnerable, that elf.

Taryatur and his post-traumatic-stress war-weariness just developed - fighting must have been an incredible shock to those who were born in the Blessed Realm and had knock-on effects for centuries. In face, Taryatur and Linevende had no children for more than an age, largely becaue of that. He just couldn't accept the responsibility of creating new life while he felt so befouled by causing death. Oropher. Well, let's just say he is not tactful. Which can get people's backs up. But when he is your friend, he is your friend through thick and thin.

I am sure Oropher and Taryatur will meet eventually, but I don't think Oropher is quite up to it yet. He has acknowledged that maybe, just maybe, he has been pushing himself too hard and needs to take his readjustment a little more slowly. Hatchet-burying seems on the cards. In time. And yes - when they do meet, they will be bound to see that they share a common past that no-one else has really experienced. Won't they?

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