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Oak and Willow  by Marnie 7 Review(s)
Aislynn CrowdaughterReviewed Chapter: 14 on 10/16/2004
Hi, Marnie!

I came about this story late and only after I had finished to read "Seeds of Old Trees", because at first I was not so deeply interested in reading a Silmarillion-centered fic; but after "Seeds" I hae developed a liking to both celeborn and your delightful view of his and galadriels relationship. Now I am sorry I did not start reading it sooner!

What a delightful, insightful view of the troublesome reaquaintance of the Noldor and the Sindar you write here! I love the slow development of galadriels and Celeborns love for each other, and now, just as they are about to plight their throth openly, this! Adn what a great picture you paint of Thingol, declaring his judgement!

"He breathed again, deliberately, preparing to give judgement. Authority settled on him as he stood. Tall and beautiful and terrible as a Lord of the Maia in wrath he seemed to Celeborn, but with a heart hot with love for his folk. He had not forgotten, nor would ever forget, that the Teleri of Aman were once his people too. "Hearken to my words," he said. "In all my realm I forbid the open use of Quenya. Never again will my people speak, or answer to, the tongue of those who slew our kin in Alqualondë. All who use it shall be held slayers of kin, and betrayers of kin, unrepentant. Let the Golodhrim learn to speak and think - aye, even to dream - in the language of the Lindar. Let them remember those they murdered every time they open their mouths. Now, go!""

WOW! What a great description of this moment, of Thingols majesty while declaring his sentence, and the part about the oldhrim having to remember their deeds each time they open their mouth to speak gives it more depth; I had not thought about the sense of the edict like that, but of course it gies the whole judgement even deeper meaning. Beutifully written! Thank you for this great story!


Author Reply: Many thanks for the reviews, Aislynn! I'm very happy to have got you involved with the Silmarillion elves (who are a bunch of fun compared with the LotR ones, IMO) especially if it lead you to Oak and Willow :)

Thingol is something of a favourite of mine, who - like Celeborn - is unfairly dissed by the rest of the fandom as far as I can see. I wanted to get across something of the feeling that this is the sort of elf with whom a demi-goddess might fall in love. He must have had something pretty special about him after all for Melian to fall for him like that ;)

I'd also been in too many on-list arguments about how mean he was in imposing the language ban, and thought '*mean*? Since when was getting someone to change their language a mean punishment for murder?' So I wanted to get something of that across too.

I'm delighted to have entertained you with my revisionist Noldor-bashing version of the Silm :) Thank you again for the review.

elliskaReviewed Chapter: 14 on 10/10/2004
What timing for that little piece of news. I should have seen it coming but I did not. Poor Celeborn and Galadriel. That was very tense.

layangabiReviewed Chapter: 14 on 4/5/2004
How are you going to get them back together *indeed.* I've been waiting for this moment, and it was beautiful, and crushing. And amid my heartbreak for Thingol, Luthien, Melian, Celeborn and Galadriel, is some grim satisfaction that the Noldor *finally* have their arrogance thrown back at them and get knocked off their gilded pedestel in one kingly sweep. (Go Thingol! *waves Sindar flag*)It's a disturbing thought, but the sense I got from their snobbery, *Angrod's*, in particular, is to assuage their own guilt in the slaying of their kin in Aman. They knew they couldn't hide their guilt from them forever, but the Sindar who welcome them and Teleri they killed are inferior to the Noldor anyway, so doesn't that make their guilt less? (can you tell I'm particularly annoyed with Angrod?)

OT: There's one thing I *strongly* disagree with, and that's Celeborn's judgement that Angrod annoys him because he's far too much like him. I...I...I... I have a hard time seeing how that arrogant, strutting, ridiculous little peacock is anything *remotely* like Celeborn!

Sorry, somewhere this review turned into a rant. But what can I say other than what everyone else said, that this was powerful, made my heart break?

Author Reply: Thanks for the review, Layangabi! This whole story was started because of the endless amount of 'awesome Noldor go and impress the natives' fics out there, and I felt it was about time someone told the story from the Sindar POV. Here are all these invaders coming over here, taking over their land, talking funny, and looking down on them. I'm amazed at how forbearing they were!

I'm sure you're right that part of the reason for the Noldor's unshakeable sense that they're better than the Sindar is guilt. That's certainly why the children of Finarfin are less than comfortable in Doriath.

As for Angrod, what Celeborn is recognising in him is his tendancy to blurt out unpalatable truths at the worst of times. A kind of rudeness and lack of tact that arises (in both of them) from their innate honesty, combined with a certain lack of empathy for other people. (It's the kind of thing that makes Celeborn - later in his career - go 'why did the old fool go to Moria in the first place? What kind of a stupid decision was that?' in front of a bunch of people who are visibly grieving for Gandalf.)

More Sindar flag waving next chapter, and the one after. Chapter 16 should also, I hope, reach some kind of a resolution on the C+G romance front!

Thanks again!

KarriReviewed Chapter: 14 on 3/26/2004
*sniffle* Oh, the tangled web of love and war. A beautiful chapter, Marnie!

Author Reply: Thanks, Karri! Now... how do I get them back together again after that? I have *no idea* :) Glad you're enjoying it!

PortiaReviewed Chapter: 14 on 3/26/2004
Oh, what a wonderful story! I'm rather a fan of the Sindarin Elves in general, and I like Celeborn/Galadriel a lot, and I love the way you're handling them. In this chapter it was nice to see Tough!Luthien (and I like Daeron a lot, poor guy). And the ending was fabulous--Thingol was really quite merciful, all things considered. What a horrible sense of betrayal for Celeborn to have, especially when Galadriel and Finrod said that *he* was tainted with darkness! Celeborn imagining blood in Galadriel's hair was a nicely dark touch. This is not a normal marriage at all.

Author Reply: Thanks, Portia! Yay - the more Sindar fans there are, the better, and if that includes being a fan of Celeborn then wow! Brilliant! (He doesn't have many, poor lad!)

Thingol *was* surprisingly merciful, wasn't he? I think he was basically a good bloke with a bit of a temper, particularly when dealing with people of other species. He might have been inclined to mouth off, perhaps, but usually he acted more kindly than he talked.

And no, nothing about Celeborn and Galadriel's relationship seems to be particularly easy :)

Thanks again!

SphinxReviewed Chapter: 14 on 3/26/2004
Oh, my.

I certainly didnt expect this particular situation to arise. Not so soon, anyway. :) And especially not after the pleasantness of the last chapter.

But what a chapter this was. Marnie, I'm certainly not complaining.

More, more, more.

The pacing really worked here. From the antagonism of the Macho Guys, to Galadriel's very in-your-face repsonse, which is so, so typical of her. I dont know why on earth you say you dont like her, because you write her so very well. ;)

The little debate with Finrod was one of my favourite parts. Here, I felt, were two people who had the measure of each other, and knew the subtleties involved in winning an argument. I've always liked Finrod - he's been a semi Muse - and it is his character-sketch that you adhere to canon the most.

And I felt for Celeborn so much in the end. The anger, the betrayal, the helplessness he feels when she looks at him - wow.

I will not stop prodding. Especially not when the results are so great. :)

CorielReviewed Chapter: 14 on 3/25/2004
Again, simply amazing.

Your characterizations are unbelievably real and natural, and I especially liked Luthien's powerful appearance. The dirty laundry had to come out sometime, and I love the way you've fleshed out the scene from Silmarillion.

I really feel for these two. At this rate, they're going to have a rough life together!

Author Reply: Thanks, Coriel! Luthien needs the occasional spark of godliness, I think, to remind people this is the same girl who takes on Morgoth and wins :) And it was amazing to try and stick to the Silmarillion dialogue (paraphrased though it was). It really brought it home to me how downright devious and unworthy Finrod's words were to Thingol. No wonder the Sindar were less than impressed!

As for Celeborn and Galadriel, it's a wonder they *ever* got together!

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