I love that title. It made me chuckle. I liked the two pastors. Their sermons were to the point and even when they used different passages, the general message was the same in favor of the elves. I can understand Finrod's reaction to Reverend Josiah's sermon. He just came in to observe and is suddenly the center of the message. Quite an experience. I love the way you wrote Asa. I have seen this type of people in churches before. I just hope he and some of the others get the message.
Author's reply
Hi obsidianj. I like the title too. I'm glad you like the way I wrote Asa. There are people like that everywhere if you look hard enough. Hopefully, he and the others got the message. Thanks for reviewing. It's much appreciated.
Tari
· 12 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
The analogy with the candles was great and oh so true. The mortals certainly have a lot to digest.
Author's reply
I'm glad you liked the candles analogy, Tari. Both the Mortals and the Elves have a lot to digest. Thanks for reading and reviewing. I appreciate it very much.
What an eye-opening experience for Finrod. He just got a dose of a different kind of reality, didn't he? I'm fascinated by the spiritual leaders standing in support of the elves. awesome.
Author's reply
A very eye-opening experience, Ellie, and quite a different dose of reality. And it is awesome that some of the spriritual leaders of the Wiseman are supporting the Elves. Thanks for leaving a review. I really aprpeciate it.
Quite an eye-opening morning for Finrod, I'd say. Two very apropos sermons--and I'd say both preachers have probably had a certain Maia whispering in their ears, to have two separate sermons that landed so perfectly on what Finrod needed to hear (not to mention the congregations).
I really *like* this chapter, and having Finrod become more closely acquainted with an important mortal institution like religion is a eye-opener.
I also think his steps were probably guided as well: it might not have been good if he had drifted into a different church with a less-enlightened preacher, one who perhaps believed that "devil's spawn" nonsense.
Author's reply
Hi Dreamflower. Ooh... you have no idea how close to the truth you are, but you'll find out in the next chapter. LOL!
I'm so glad you enjoyed this chapter. It was loads of fun to write, especially the bit at Josiah's church and it was definitely quite an eye-opener for Finrod.
Thanks for taking the time to leave a review. It's very much appreciated.
I, too, can appreciate how he felt more comfortable and welcome at first in the Catholic service and questioned whether he should be in the other service, but good was done by him being there! Enjoy a holy Lent!
Author's reply
Very true, Larner. And we will see what good has been done soon enough. May you enjoy a holy Lent as well. Thanks for reading and reviewing. It's very much appreciated.
Love the Good Samaritan verses. I hope I can be that when anyone should need me. (Go without fear and help them as they need to be helped.) Also loved the other church, sounded like Baptist but I can easily be wrong on that one. My church is the First Christian Church and we are lucky in the fact that our minister reminds me of the good Reverend Josiah. And yes I know it was the good Father who told the verses, but I do like both of their churches. When I go to visit the elves I will have to stop in both churches. LOL! Glad that he did get a chance to see both churches. Maybe they will help him soothe his soul :)
Author's reply
Hi Laer. You're very perceptive. I did base Josiah's church somewhat on the Baptists. I'm glad you liked both churches. We'll see what effect (if any) visiting these two churches will have on Finrod in the future. Thanks for reviewing. I appreciate it very much.
Hmmm. Very interesting. One would almost suspect collusion amongst the spiritual leaders in the town. Or perhaps heavenly influence is the proper explanation.
Still working my way through the earlier stories -- it's something of a chore when using my phone to read. Much easier to bring up stories from the SoA front page, than to delve down through menus to find something older.
It's rather like picking up an interesting book at the library, that happens to be the latest in a series, and then going back to put the rest of the earlier books on hold to be able to read them -- and then because of the way the hold list works, you almost have to read them out of order if you're to read them at all, because you read them as they become available, and if you don't read one when you get it, you have to give it back before a book from earlier in the series comes up on the list. Whew, that was a long sentence! Don't know if it even makes sense.
At least with SoA I can read stories in order -- they're all there, in the archive, unless they're not for some reason -- I just have to work harder to access them.
(Still surprised, actually, to have computer access this morning. There ought to be a kid on this computer, doing math or research or writing a paper or something... I am going to have to investigate, even though it means going back to my phone for internet access...)
Author's reply
Hi Lindelea. I know what you mean about putting holds on series at the library. It can be haphazard as to which books and in which order you get them.
At anyrate, I'm glad you are at least making your way through the Elf Academy series and that you are enjoying it.
As for whether there is collusion among the religious leaders of Wiseman, that remains to be seen. We'll be hearing Josiah's story in the next chapter.
Thanks for leaving a review. I appreciate it very much.
Hm. Both the pastors we've seen so far in the Elf Academy fics have been friendly, open-minded types, who are doing their best to get the congregations to welcome the Elves. Though no doubt there are some less-friendly ones out there as well.
For some reason I am reminded of "the first law of the supernatural" (from Sheri S. Tepper's Gibbon's Decline and Fall): No God can be bigger than the gate that lets people into the presence. If the only way to that God is through a narrow little gate with picky little gatekeepers, then that God is no bigger than that gate nor wiser than the keepers. And I see Asa Danforth (and some others) busily trying to shrink the gate Josiah Makepeace is pointing his people at. Maybe when they get to meet Finrod after the service they will become friendlier towards the Elves.
Author's reply
Hi Sunny. We may see some of the less open-minded types later. I like the "firt law of the supernatural"; it makes a lot of sense. Of course, one has to realize that the gates are generally built by humans and manned by them. I doubt the Creator has any use for either. I think those who insist on gates and gatekeepers are going to be surprised when they find that there are none. *grin*
Anyway, we'll see how things go for Finrod in the next chapter when he and Josiah get together. Thanks for leaving a coment. It's always appreciated.
Hi, Atto. Long time no review, I know. Sorry. :( It's not because I'm not reading, as you know well. I'm still here, just too caught up in it all to find words. :)
(You know, that's an issue with me sometimes, finding words. And then other times I have too many words and could write something that rivalled the chapter in length if I let myself do it)
These two styles of church were very interesting. I'm non-denominational Christian myself, but I've been to other denominations' churches before (notably Catholic, and on one unforgettable occasion, Pentecostal), so I can feel for Finrod's out-of-place-ness here. The Catholic churchgoers were welcoming, but I felt that was because they knew my friend Andrea well already and were being polite (maybe I was just too nervous to see they really liked me, but having recently discovered I have high-functioning ASD I can see why I don't read emotions or intentions too well)
The Pentecostal church I visited downright frightened me. Even my friend Tina frightened me. I mean no disrespect to anyone who may be Pentecostal or know Pentecostals that reads your story, but I am ever so glad that Finrod didn't find a Pentecostal church. I don't know what he'd make of the "speaking in tongues" thing, though I have no doubt they'd do their best to make him feel welcome. I felt very earnestly welcomed at the Pentecostal church; they called me "Sister" at once and did their best to involve me. But when the churchgoers started *having seizures in front of me* and everyone was approving, and I asked the Sunday school teacher what would happen if I had one she said it'd be a gift from God. I felt sickened by the idea I wouldn't receive help and had to leave early, so...yeah, I think Finrod going in a Pentecostal church would have been all kinds of traumatic flashback-y for me. o.o
Sorry for the irrelevant rambling, but I am now kind of wondering what he would think of one, even though I don't really want to see it.
Back to the chapter then - the parable of the Good Samaritan is my favorite part of the chapter, and how they both recognized that the Elves are their neighbours, supposed "enemies" or not. I do hope they will grow to love and appreciate the Elves, both of Wiseman and of Valinor, and that the Elves will learn to present themselves as a united front.
Tye-melin tenn'Ambar-metta,
Kaylee
Author's reply
Hi Kaylee. I can understand why the Pentecostals might frighten you. I don't believe in speaking in tongues myself and don't see the point. At any rate, the parable of the Good Samaritan is still as relevant today as 2000 years ago. I'm sure the parishoners of St. Mary's will see it in a new light now. Thanks for leaving a reviewn. It's very much appreciated. Tye-melin.
Preach it, Reverend (and Father)!
Loved seeing Finrod's first experience with church services and different styles at that. Offending people with his presence? Oh honey, any church offended by anybody's presence is missing the point. Also, looks like the Elves have more friends and in different places than they may have thought. Wouldn't surprise me if there's some kind of pastoral alliance between churches and some decided a certain topic needed to be addressed.
Sometimes it seems like a preacher's talking just to you, but this takes it to a different level. *grin* Poor Finrod seemed like he was about to have a heart attack, but it sure was an effective way of getting the message across.
Fiondil, you did an awesome job of portraying their sermons. In my head I could just hear Pastor Makepeace going to town. Reminds me a lot of several pastors I know.
‘Good judgment, Arafinwë’ and ‘That’s telling them, Sire’ *cackle* Oh my gosh. I'd pay to see that. Or people doing that to Ingwë.
Really liked this chapter, answered some questions I was thinking about from the last chapter. Plus the title was hilarious as well as accurate.
Thanks for the wonderful update, hope you and everybody will have a fabulous week!
-Kevana
Author's reply
Hi Kevana. I had lots of fun with this chapter, especially with Josiah's sermon, as you can imagine. We'll learn just how he came to decide on that particular scriptural passage. With Charles, however, he would have followed the lectionary, though I fudged it a bit. Anyway, Finrod was probably wondering what nightmare he'd landed himself in. We'll see how he and Josiah get along.
Glad you liked the title. I thought it was pretty funny and I was laughing to myself when I came up with it. And Finrod imagining his dad's court being critiqued by the courtieres... well, that image is just too funny.
Anyway,thanks for reviewing. It's always appreciated. Have a good week yourself.
Beautiful! I wonder how these churches decided on the same passage. Interesting . . .
Author's reply
Not quite the same passages, UTfrog, though they definitely have similar messages. We'll learn a bit more about it in the next chapter. Thanks for reviewing. I very much appreciate it.
Wow, that must have been quite something for Finrod to assimilate, considering that he has never heard of these things before, even if he was on a first-name basis, so to speak, with the Valar and Maiar.
I wonder how he will process it all. And I hope that the Josiah Makepeace's congregation will take that sermon to heart and love their perceived enemy. It looks like at least one person there has a deepseated fear - or hatred - for the Elves.
Author's reply
Hi Celeth. Yes, it is indeed quite something for him to assimilate. As for Josiah's congregation, I suspect there's a whole spectrum of reactions toward the Elves, seeing as how Nicholas is a member of the congregation and he and Finrod work together. Josiah, obviously, has felt a need to address the issue.
Anyway, thanks for reviewing. It's much appreciated.
galathil
· 10 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
Hi Finrod looks like the talk with Manwe went better than excepted. Lets hope that the leadership issue has finally being resolved. Also the *First and Second Born has being resolved once and for all.Are well we can all live in hope. Wonder what Finder &co want as well. Just have to wait for the next chapter. LOL Galathil(Hope my ramblings make sense,let me know if they do.)
Author's reply
Hi Galathil. Hopefully things have been resolved and it's good that Manwë set straight the whole "Firstborn/Secondborn" issue, even they probably don't really believe it. We'll have to see how things work out from this point on. Thanks for reviewing. It's appreciated.
obsidianj
· 8 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
Manwe's little pep-talk certainly cleared the air a bit. But I'm not sure how long this will last. Nobody really was asked what they think of joint rule and with Manwe standing right next to them, nobody from the elves would say something anyway, hierarchical in their thinking as they are, especially the nay-sayers. Even if they know that Manwe could hear them anyway, it is different to complain when the Vala is in their midst as if he is not physically present.
I loved Manwe's little speech about his multi-tasking. That certainly put some things into perspective.
Caleb is just too cute for his own good.
Author's reply
Hi obsidianj. Yes, you're right about the Elves and their reactions. We'll see how things fall out once they've had time to think things through and process what Manwë said.
I thought Manwë's explanation of his powers certainly put a lot of things about the Valar into perspective.
And Caleb is too cute, but them most kids that age are.
Thanks for reviewing. It's always appreciated.
Laer
· 8 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
Tom Peterson does not sound like a very nice person. Running on fear and hate is never a good podium to stand on. :( Maybe Amroth or Daeron can run for Mayor? They both have lived in the area long enough. Granted Amroth has a bit more experience with ruling... ;) Glad they have had a chance to clear the air. I am sure there will need to use an "air purifier" a few more times before it becomes more of an even road. That and they will need to keep an eye open for changes no matter how subtle. yikes. I would not like to be them.
Author's reply
No, Peterson doesn't sound like a nice person but how many of our leaders have used fear and hate as part of their platform and got away with it, at least for a while. Look at Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin, not to mention ordinary folk running for an office and using some group or other as a scapegoat for all the ills of the community and so forth. It's all too common these days, unfortunately.
And while the air has been cleared somewhat, you are correct that it will take more than one clearing for the Elves to get it together.
Thanks for taking the time to leave a review. I appreciate it.
Larner
· 8 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
I consider the joint rule a good decision. Now to see what kind of campaign the neo-Nazi Elf haters run!
Author's reply
Joint rule really is the only way to go, here. As for the neo-Nazi Elf haters, we'll see what they get up to later on. Thanks for reviewing, Larner. It's appreciated.
obsidianj
· 7 March 2014
· Chapter 19: The Housewarming Party
That's some kind of housewarming party. I don't think Vorondur and Amroth had this in mind ;-).
What was Gil thinking? Was he thinking at all? That was ill done. I just hope Manwe can calm the situation and get them to work this out. At the moment it seems to get worse from moment to moment.
obsidianj
· 7 March 2014
· Chapter 18: Setting the Bait
Interesting lunch. The three amigos were very subtle in asking for help. And what do they expect Alex and Derek to do? It is a volatile situation. The elves who don't see the mortals as "worthy" will not be convinced otherwise if Ales and Derek say so. They have their opinions and it will be hard to convince them otherwise. The elves have to sort this out themselves. Interference by the mortals will make the situation worse. Otoh, it is good that Alex and Derek are aware that there is this situation and they can keep their eyes and ears open to maybe diffuse and understand an event that would otherwise get ugly.
Author's reply
Hi obsidianj. Yes, they were pretty subtle, probably more than they needed to be but at least Alex and Derek were able to pick up on it. Hopefully they will be able to act on this knowledge for the benefit of all. Thanks for reviewing. It's much appreciated.
Sunny
· 7 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
Tee-hee-hee. If Ingwë is whining about some new - like merely a yen or two - fashion craze among the Ladies, I wonder what he would say about Mortal fashions. Perhaps some enterprising and mischievous Maia might take it upon herself to bring some new inspiration to the Amanian fashion designers, maybe a book about fashion and costume design through the ages?
Author's reply
He would probably be shocked and appalled and would demand all the ellith return to Valinor lest they be corrupted. LOL!
Sunny
· 7 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
Well, you know that a person has become blasé about the Valar and Maiar popping out of thin air when one of them just asks "Vala or Maia?" when someone he doesn't know does one of those patented appearing acts. ;-) As you may guess, I liked Dave's cool-as-a-cucumber attitude. I'm sure the Elves were scandalized, though.
Young Caleb is just too precious for words! I loved the interaction between him and Manwë.
So there's a lid on the rift among the Elves - for now at least. But it would take more than an appearance from Manwë to really quash the attitudes that some of the Amanian Elves obviously have.
Hi, Kevana, you have a lot of fun ahead of you! The Parasol Protectorate books are a hoot! If you want more suggestions, I'm sure Fiondil can send you my e-mail address! ;-)
Author's reply
Hi Sunny. Yeah, Dave is pretty cool, isn't he? Being chief of police, he probably has learned to be very blasé at least on the outside but he was probably quaking in his boots on the inside.
Caleb is cute, but most six-year-olds are.
We'll see how things progress between the Elves from here, but you're right that it will take more than an appearance from Manwë to set things straight among some of the Elves.
I'll let Kevana know. Thanks and thanks for reviewing. It's always appreciated.
Dreamflower
· 7 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
Well, now one thing is more or less settled. Hopefully Manwe's appearance will leave enough of an impression that the naysayers will now toe the line. Joint rule between Finrod and Glorfindel makes the most sense.
I don't like the sound of the (so far) only candidate for mayor. But I can't really see any of the Elves running (would any of them be eligible? How long would they have to have been residents to run for office or even vote? I'm assuming that the paper trail created for them does make them American citizens, but various states and communities have differing residency requirements to register, so far as I know.) Anyway, I'd think it would need to be a mortal, at least this time around...
BTW, I loved Manwe's interaction with little Caleb.
Author's reply
Hi Dreamflower. More or less settled and probably less settled than most would hope as we will eventually see.
All the Wiseman Elves are American citizens. Glorfindel explains this to Finrod back in "Christmas in Edhellond" when they are discussing the possibility of an Elf running for mayor. Even so, I doubt any of them really want to get involved that way. We will be seeing how it goes as the story progresses.
I think the Manwë's interaction with Caleb is the highlight of the chapter myself.
Thanks for leaving a comment. It's very much appreciated.
Lindelea
· 7 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
LOL! "Chat" is such a... mild word for a conversation with a powerful spiritual being.
I don't quite get the reference to an owl? Perhaps it is from one of the earlier stories. I have just begun to read "Elf Academy" (the original), so maybe I'll get filled in on the background referenced in this chapter, eventually.
Author's reply
Hi Lindelea. You're reading this story backwards. The reference to an owl is found in the first Elf Academy story and it would certainly help to read EA2 and Christmas at Edhellond to understand more fully the dynamics that we see here in EA3.
And I think "chat" is a perfectly good word for a conversation with a powerful spiritual being. Even Námo thinks so. LOL!
Thanks for reading and reviewing. I appreciate it.
Kevana
· 7 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
Whoops, I forgot to include this. It's penguins in sweaters, and people knitting sweaters for penguins, just in case anyone was lacking a smile today. Or if any knitters want to contribute. Unfortunately I only crochet (poorly) but maybe I can make an attempt.
-Kevana
Author's reply
LOL! Too cute. I don't knit either though I can crochet and not too badly, but not anything like that. I'll save it for the experts. Thanks for sharing.
Kevana
· 7 March 2014
· Chapter 20: Chatting with Manwë
It's Friday. *collapses*
Good things all around. Apparently Manwë is a good multitasker.
I loved how Dave pointed out he's even more rude when he talks to God and Manwë's not getting special treatment. It does make me wonder how the Elves feel about that because it's certainly a difference. They've tended to offer prayers to the Valar, and living on an archangel's doorstep will probably do that to you, but now you've got all these uppity Mortals cutting out the middle man and I can't help wondering just how scandalized that must make the Elves. It certainly scandalized enough people 2,000 years ago. But I suppose I just like scandalized Elves in particular. They're so wonderfully tetchy.
I was almost a little upset over the intelligent life on another planet...like, what's going to happen to them at the Dagor Dagorath?!
I keep getting shades of Aragorn and his upbringing in Rivendell from little Caleb. It's so sweet to see the kid, and siblings and mom, get some love after what happened with their dad and husband. Aww, Tim is a gift! Isn't that just about the highest compliment you can get, knowing that you were sent into someone's life that way?
The candle scene was so beautiful!
"That's not what my wife says." *undignified cackling*
Something occurred to me, I can't remember, does Finrod know about the thing in the tarn?
Wonderful chapter, loved seeing "Manny" out and about in the, er, neighborhood. And really glad at how it eased the tension, though I'm sure that won't last. Mwahaha.
Thanks so much, Fiondil! You take care and have a great weekend.
-Kevana
Special shout-out to Sunny - I was browsing the library the other day, stumbled on a book with a premise that sounded familiar. I realized it was the Parasol Protectorate series you mentioned in a review! They had the whole series and they're all sitting on my desk at home now. Just a little into the first book and it's great. I'm so glad you mentioned them, thanks for sharing the recommendation all that time ago!
Author's reply
Hi Kevana. When you're a spiritual being, I guess being a multitasker is not a problem. *grin*
I think your insight about how Mortals relate to God and how the Elves relate to the Valar, not actually praying to them but certainly interacting with them on several levels, is very true and I hadn't really thought about it in those terms. Scandalized Elves are fun to watch (and write).
Yes, Finrod knows about the tarn. Glorfindel took all the Valinórean Elves there once. Finrod even made the comment that Alex was lured into the tarn.
And you're right that in spite of Manwë's attempts to ease tensions, it won't last (or there's no story) *grin*
Thanks for reviewing. I appreciate it very much.
Author Reply: Oh, and about your concern for extraterrestrial life with regards to the Dagor Dagorath:
Tolkien states in one of his essays that the Elves certainly knew about the existence of other planets and the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, having been tutored by the Valar, but they would say that the central drama of the universe was here in Arda. And the end of the world doesn't necessarily mean the end of the universe, but I think (within Tolkien's mythology and not in our real world) that the Dagor Dagorath will be centered here on this planet and not necessarily spill over to the rest of the universe, but the outcome will certainly affect the rest of the universe on some level. That is only my personal opinion and others might have a different and equally legitimate theological understanding of this matter.
Anyway, just figured I would give you my thoughts on the subject.