Reviews of The Counsels of Men

Aiwendiel · 16 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

Rich tale, and explains perfectly something that I never actually took notice of before in the original canon. True to each character and to the differing fates of the races. Nice end of battlefield description, too! (I've spun a different idea but in the exact same setting in my "Details, Details" posted on HASA.) Thanks for this!

Author's reply

Hey Aiwendiel, Ooo, I just wandered over and checked out your "Details, Details" story. I think you have a much more involved description of the battlefield, which sets the tone for your story very nicely. That's some amazing descriptive work! Apparently great minds think alike, though not with exactly the same "details." :) I like your addition of carrion fowl and black wings fluttering around the corpses. It sets up perfectly that Nazgul remains that Aragorn and Gandalf go to examine. I'm going to take notes for the next time I need to set a scene like that. Many thanks for the wonderful comparison!

docmon · 15 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

Well, I already knew this was an insightful, bittersweet, well-crafted story. But I have to say, Thundera, the "last-minute changes" you made really improved the story! I especially like what you did with the dialogue transition after Aragorn asks if Merry & Pippin need them. It's really a terrific addition. As you said in a review, it gets at what the hobbits give Legolas and Gimli. But I also like the following part: Gimli asks "'Have we an understanding?' They did not..." I just like how all that unfolded. Oh, and I have to second a vote in a review: "grinding march of days" is just lovely phrasing. The discussion here is more than an argument. It's a process where Legolas and Gimli present, in less and less gentle terms, a harsh fact: Our people fade - and yes, we are of those people - and so now begins your time. Now begins the Time of Men. It took several attempts before Aragorn would accept what Legolas and Gimli had to say. As he is not a man ruled by pride, he accepts what must be. It is time to don the crown.

Author's reply

Hey Docmon, Nice timing. I just sent an email off to you. Anyway, you should know that those "last-minute changes" were all inspired by you. The "have we an understanding" moment came about because you finally made me see that it was silly for Gimli to look for a conversation-ender in the middle of the story. No matter what I tried, it just didn't flow, and it certainly didn't make sense. As a result, it changed to understanding instead of concluding, and that really seems to have helped everything around it. So huge thanks, both for the review and the betas. ::cheers loudly::

Estelcontar · 14 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

A very sad, poignant and well crafted story indeed.

Author's reply

Thank you so much! I tried not to let it get too sad, so hopefully there was room for meaning apart from the angst. Thanks again!

Larner · 14 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

A sad thing, this realization of the fading of the other kindreds, and to be thus so forcibly reminded of it on such an occasion. Well done.

Author's reply

Thanks so much, Larner! I'm glad you felt the emotions in this piece, and I'm even more thrilled that the circumstances played into it, too. I really wanted to have a rather grim backdrop to this story. Thanks again!

BeeGee · 14 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

I re-read this for the fourth time today. First, because it is a well-crafted story, and the dialogue is very good between Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas. Secondly, I wanted to get my thoughts in order to formulate a review. I agree with other reviewers that the end of elves and dwarves and hobbits is sad, but it appears "they" have all come to terms with it. Aragorn, having been raised by immortal elves, has had less time to come to grips with his own mortality. He always seems a bit leary of his destiny (I don't blame him) and now, after this battle, he can't put it off any longer. Everyone who knows him, and especially Gimli and Legolas, know he has the skills to do the job, but he needs a little push. I agree with Legolas and Gimli on this, they have helped him as a friend, but it isn't their fight anymore. Aragorn needs to win his crown on his own. Afterwards, they can both return to Ithilien in friendship, which agrees with canon. Yes? This is what I got out of it. I enjoyed it!

Author's reply

Hey BeeGee, Thank you so much for the review, and I thoroughly enjoyed hearing your insights into Aragorn's character. And into the racial characteristics of elves and dwarves. It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this. My own opinion is that the movies made a bit too much out of Aragorn's destiny. I agree with you that he certainly approached it with a bit of caution, but to me, a lot of that seemed to be more timing than anything else. Aragorn knew what he was destined to do, and he didn't want to slip at the last second by claiming it too quickly or too slowly. But he was definitely a born leader, and he knew it, too. With one notable exception during the chase across Rohan, he never shied from making the hard decisions. But during this story, Legolas and Gimli might have felt the timing was right to step back, which would definitely equate to a push on their part. That's where your perspective fits in nicely. It's something I hadn't thought of myself, and I thank you for showing me another nuance to the interplay going on. Thank you again!

Aiwen · 12 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

I've always found the fate of the elves, ents and dwarves to be heartbreakingly sad. Nice to see Aragorn feeling the same way. So much that is beautiful is being lost, and it all feels so unnecessary! and yet inevitable at the same time. Thank you for writing this.

Author's reply

You're very welcome, and thank YOU for the review! I'm glad that the story resonated with something you were already feeling. I'd like to think that means I was on the right track. :) And thank you for your comment about an inevitable feel. That was something I had hoped to convey, but I wasn't quite sure how to do it. I'm so glad it came across clearly to you. Thank you again!

curiouswombat · 12 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

How poignant - a sad reason for them being missing - but one that rings true.

Author's reply

Thank you so much for the review! I'm glad there's a truthy ring to it. :) It made sense to me, but that doesn't mean it will make sense to anyone else. Thanks again!

Le Rouret · 12 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

Oh, how lovely and heartbreaking! You constructed Legolas and Gimli's arguments, and Aragorn's rebuttals, so precisely! My congratulations to you; this was a pleasure (if a bittersweet one) to read. My favorite line: "And so our end approaches. It will either come to us through Rhûn and Dol Guldur, or it will come through the grinding march of days. But it will come, regardless. We made that choice long ago." Just the phrase, "the grinding march of days," sent a thrill through me. It's so evocative. Thank you for writing and posting this. Kudos to your plot bunny-generator!

Author's reply

Hey Le Rouret, The phrase "grinding march of days" was actually a last-minute addition. I can't remember what it had been before and I'm too lazy to go look at the drafts, but I do remember that it implied a much faster fading than I felt was appropriate. The rest of the line was around from the first draft, but that particular phrase barely made it in before the story was posted. And I'm glad you liked the bittersweet nature of this story. This was probably my most deliberate attempt to catch both high and low notes in a dialogue-driven piece, and I wasn't sure if the mood was going to come across correctly. Thank you again for the review!

Linda Hoyland · 12 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

What a powerful story! I admit I never wondered why Legolas and Gimli weren't at the Council, thinking it only for the captains, but I like your reasoning very much. A beautifully written story.

Author's reply

Hey Linda Hoyland, Thanks so much for the review. Your explanation sounds much more straight forward than mine (and probably more plausible, as a result), but the Gimli and Legolas fan in me can't help but think that they really should have been at that debate. There's nothing quite like hero worship when it comes to gap-fillers. :) That said, I'm thrilled you felt that the reasoning was sound. It made sense in my head when the story was first conceived, but that doesn't always mean it will make sense to anyone else. Many thanks again for the review!

eliza61 · 12 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

Oh how sad. Great story but I have to agree with Aragorn, it does feel like a stab in the back.

Author's reply

Many thanks for the review! I'm glad you could enjoy it despite the sadder themes.

Raksha The Demon · 12 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

A thoughtful interpretation of canon. Legolas and Gimli are well-characterized, and Aragorn shines in particular. It's interesting that Legolas, despite his decision to leave the fate of Gondor to its Men, will choose to live in the realm and help heal Ithilien.

Author's reply

Hey Raksha, It's interesting that Legolas, despite his decision to leave the fate of Gondor to its Men, will choose to live in the realm and help heal Ithilien. Alright, point well taken. :) I have to admit that I was a little unsatisfied as to that issue, too, but my more immediate cues for this story were taken from the conversation Legolas and Gimli had while walking to the Houses of Healing. But I did wrestle with how to portray a Legolas and Gimli that understood that their people weren't going to be a big part of future events yet also somehow get across that they were eager to be a part of whatever time they had left. I think the latter part got lost somewhere in the shuffle. Ah well. For what it's worth, that was the intent. Anyway, I'm glad you liked the characterizations, and I'm especially glad you liked Aragorn. I was nervous in writing him because he refused to commit himself to any one emotion. Which I think is appropriate given the circumstances, but I wasn't sure how it would work in story form. Many thanks for the review!

Dreamflower · 11 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

Oh my! What a painful and difficult discussion for all of them, and what a sad realization for Aragorn! And yet it does indeed make perfect sense, and the more I think on it, the more I'm convinced this would have been JRRT's own explanation had he been asked to give one. And yet their friendship remains true and sturdy. And Merry and Pippin will be very glad to see their friends as well. You know, there's also a parallel, story-external, that I would not have thought of without reading this story. After the unexpected victory at Helm's Deep, the Three Hunters are reunited with Merry and Pippin in their picnic among the ruins, and they all find comfort among one another-- and Aragorn attends with them because Rohan is not his land, and Theoden is King. After the unexpected victory on the Pelennor, Legolas and Gimli are reunited with Merry and Pippin in the Houses of Healing. But this time, Aragorn must attend the council, for Gondor *is* his land and he its King! A wonderful and insightful conversation! Thank you for sharing it with us!

Author's reply

I have to admit that the canon example you cite didn't even cross my mind. But it makes perfect sense. I may have to take a closer look at this. The closest I came was borrowing some phrasing. I believe Tolkien has the group sitting on the "edge of ruin" when they gather at Isengard, so I figured I could sneak in the phrase "field of ruin" and get a Tolkien-feel. I should have taken a closer look at the situation from which I was borrowing the phrase. Wow. Now you really do have my head spinning. Thank you for your insight!

shirebound · 11 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

What an interesting debate. Gimli and Legolas had so little to do and say in the films, but these are the perceptive representatives of their races that shine in the Professor's tale. And you *know* I loved this: "Do Merry and Pippin need you?" Aragorn challenged. Gimli shrugged. "Perhaps. Perhaps not. But we need them. Hobbits see a hope in the future that both the dwarves and the elves now lack. I would remind myself of that hope, even if I cannot quite believe it." I'm so glad you're still bringing us these thoughtful and interesting stories.

Author's reply

Oddly enough, that line you enjoyed was a last minute addition that had me kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier. It would have made for much easier writing. I kept trying to put into words what it was about the hobbits that drew Legolas and Gimli away from the war council, and at the very end, it finally occurred to me that the hobbits offered the opposite of what Aragorn could offer. Which certainly wasn't Aragorn's fault, but it's just how it all worked out. Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed! Thank you for the review!

utfrog · 11 March 2010 · Chapter 1: The Counsels of Men

So very well written and so very sad. Good job.

Author's reply

Thank you so much for the review! I'm glad you enjoyed the story!

Reviews (14)