Tari
· 11 April 2008
· Chapter 999999: A word from the author
Beautiful said. I totally agree with you. I always get upset with people who come down hard on Denethor. It is the palantir they should be directing their anger at. I love the insertion of a cat into the story. Were he human, he would be a wonderful counselor for Denether. Still, he is doing a very good job for a mere feline.
Tari
Author's reply
Thanks, Tari - Denethor was not 'faultless' though. He was definitely a flawed being... which is one reason why I love him. He is real... he makes mistakes... unfortunately, his great love for Gondor and his great pride caused a lot of nasty repercussions. However, Mithrandir had a lot to do with this too. I wish he had been more supportive of Denethor back when Thorongil was in the service of Gondor. I think that began most of Denethor's problems. But he had the ability and the chance to change things... we all do... and he did not. Therein lies the sadness of the tale. A great man who should not have fallen, but did.
Tari
· 11 April 2008
· Chapter 11: Understanding
Wow. I didn't realize I was so far behind.
The interplay between Gandalf and Alqualondë is precious. I especially loved Gandalf calling him a "Little Swan". I'm sure a cat would love being called a swan. Not. How funny.
Tari
Author's reply
Ah! Forgive the lateness of this reply.
Gandalf called Alqualonde 'Little Swan' because Alqualonde is another name for Swan Haven for the Teleri in Aman....
shirebound
· 11 April 2008
· Chapter 13: Unveiling
Oh dear, I suspect this is going to get far sadder yet. What a difficult time for everyone.
Author's reply
Well, as we all know, it gets much sadder and much darker.. but there will be a light... but not for Denethor - I hope there is one for Alqualonde....
Thanks for your review!
Fiondil
· 11 April 2008
· Chapter 999999: A word from the author
It is a pity that you even have to resort to this, Agape. I suspect most people claiming this is AU are basing it solely on movie!Denethor and not on Tolkien's depiction of him. And you are correct that PJ's Denethor isn't Tolkien's. How many people, having never read the books or even glanced at the Tale of Years would guess, just from watching the movies, that Denethor, who is of Númenórëan descent same as Aragorn, though of a less noble degree, is only one year older than Aragorn?
I'm sure that Eiluj is correct that Denethor went searching for Frodo through the Palantír on his own once he learned of the Hobbit's existence, but the image of what he found coupled with what Sauron shows him later (the Black Fleet) on top of the news that Théoden might NOT be able to reach Minas Tirith was enough to drag him down into a spiral of despair that merely deepened when Faramir returned more dead than alive. The thought that he had lost both his sons on top of everything else, I suspect, was the proverbial straw. Denethor was not insane, merely driven into a state of despair so deep (and partly through his own arrogance, I fear) that he could not listen to reason and saw no hope.
Those who depict Denethor as abusive and violent are the one's writing AU. Maybe if they actually bothered to read the book....
Author's reply
Because others don't agree usually doesn't bother me. However, I have spent so much time researching Denethor... for this tale and others... that I really had to put my foot down and say - Listen, this is not an AU. When I write an AU, I proclaim it.
The odd thing about all this (sans the part about Denethor not loving Faramir which I think is hogwash) is that Denethor had the right to go to the House of the Stewards and lay down and say, 'this is it. I've chosen my time to die.' It's one of the gifts of the Valar to those of Numenor. So the argument that he is committing suicide isn't true. He would have lain on that table until his spirit left him... That he chose to not wait for the 'long slow death' was his choice also. I don't think anywhere it said how they could end their lives.
The problem with this was that he chose for Faramir - and he had no right to do that....
I wrote to eiluj about Frodo and the Palantir below... I definitely think that Denethor, knowing from Faramir's account which way the Hobbit was headed, would have tried to find him!!!
Thanks ever so much for your support! Now to continue the tale... and you will be happy to see that the next chapter is rather long - for this tale (tail). :-)
irene
· 11 April 2008
· Chapter 999999: A word from the author
You are absolutely right! And a good thing you stated all the facts here for those who think Peter Jackson to be the author of LOTR. His movie, sadly, is very much AU...
Author's reply
As most movies do not follow the books they are taken from - we have to just grin and bear it. The movies were spectacular and mostly great... mostly...
Unfortunately, PJ did much damage, IMHO, to the characters... Denethor being only one destroyed by this movie for those who have never read the books.
Thanks for your comments! Most appreciated!
eiluj
· 11 April 2008
· Chapter 999999: A word from the author
I've been known to play canon police (though generally not at this site), and I have to say *I* never considered this fic AU -- even the talking cat! (And not merely because I'm a cat person: I think a cat such as Alqualondë has to be considered as falling within the realm of canon, inasmuch as his ancestors are mentioned in LotR.)
'"The fool's hope has failed. The Enemy has found it, and now his power waxes; he sees our very thoughts, and all we do is ruinous.”
'This is what pushes Denethor over the edge – he has seen that Frodo is naked in Cirith Ungol – which means that Sauron (in his mind’s eye) has the Ring; he has seen that the Black Ships are coming up the Anduin… and then Ingold tells him that the road from Rohan has been blocked by a new enemy and Théoden will NOT be able to get through to Minas Tirith. All is lost… and the Palantír verifies and corroborates that.' --
I’ve always been under the impression that it was Sauron who showed the Black Ships to Denethor to drive him to despair. But if Denethor saw Frodo in the palantír, that must have been on his own, and *not* through Sauron. Sauron didn't know at that point that the orcs had captured Frodo (there hadn't been time for Shagrat to reach Barad-dûr with Frodo’s clothing) -- and certainly Sauron never suspected the Ring was within Mordor). So if Denethor had seen Frodo in Cirith Ungol, it would have to have been because he was looking for Frodo on his own initiative.
So I’m wondering if there’s anything in Tolkien’s letters (or anywhere else I either haven’t read or don’t remember!) on this subject, or if it’s just your interpretation.
‘By the way, Peter Jackson’s Denethor is NOT Tolkien’s’ --
I love the films. But you are absolutely correct. [And PJ’s Faramir ... and PJ’s Aragorn ... and PJ’s Elrond ... and PJ’s Arwen ... and PJ’s Théoden....]
Write on!
Author's reply
Hello eiluj....
I've read and re-read and discussed and then re-read another twenty times these chapters.... I have come to the conclusion - perhaps wrong - that Denethor's curiosity - no, need - to know everything he could - caused his dabbling (obsession) with the Palantir....
So - with that in mind, it would seem to me that he would have searched Ithilien for the creatures that Faramir let go against Denethor's law/wishes. Therefore, I think he would have eventually 'found' Frodo. And made the 'wrong' conclusion!
I don't think that Sauron controlled all of Denethor's movements with the Palantir. Yes, Sauron showed him the Black Ships, but I think Denethor saw other things that Sauron didn't show him. The stone did NOT control Denethor. Nor did Sauron. I know, from the book, that at the beginning his use went unnoticed by Sauron... The books says Denethor was never 'taken' by Sauron the way Saruman was...
I also - though this has nothing to do with the Cat - think that he would have researched the scrolls that Mithrandir 'used' in 3017-3018. This is pure conjecture - but if the man would risk so much by using the Palantir to acquire knowledge - wouldn't he just take a stroll down to the archives and open the scrolls Gandalf did? Seems quite sane to me.
Oh well - enough of that - I think 'canon' police are necessary for those who care about their stories being canon. I do. I apprecite anyone who brings something to my attention that might not be canon... however, as I've said in a previous post... interpretation is ambiguous. What I interpret from what I've read might be entirely different from what you interpret... but if it's in black and white that Denethor hated Faramir and wished him dead - then I'd not write otherwise... HOWEVER - no where does it say this. From my reading, I sense a great love for Faramir (from the hand-holding in the high chamber as Faramir lies near death)... estrangement was definitely there - but not to the point that neither spoke to each other. Also, when Faramir almost collapses during his interview with Denethor/Gandalf... Denethor shows true concern. This, IMHO, is only one of many instances that show Denethor was a loving, albeit stern, harsh father. Oh, I could talk about this for days.... Forgive me. Thanks for the comments! Most appreciated!
Pearl Took
· 10 April 2008
· Chapter 13: Unveiling
Well written as always Agape!
Odd, in a way, that Alqualondë hadn't spoken to Faramir before.
Poor dear Faramir.
Author's reply
Alqua might have spoken with Faramir if he had been around when Faramir was a boy... as it is, Faramir was already 16ish when the Cat came to Denethor. By that time, the boy was already in Gondor's service, probably might have been a lieutenant by that time. No time for playing with cats.... Sad.
Thanks for reviewing. It is most appreciated.
Dreamflower
· 10 April 2008
· Chapter 13: Unveiling
Oh my. Poor Faramir--but it completely makes sense for Alqualonde to reveal himself to the Steward's Heir at this point in time.
You really bring forth the sense of despair and hopelessness that pervaded the city at that particular point in time. They all feel they are only playing a "waiting game", trying to push the inevitable back.
But I'm glad that Alqualonde assured Faramir of his father's love.
Only Gandalf and Pippin have any hope left right now--and that's the fool's hope they spoke of in previous chapters. *sigh* What a horrid time that was!
Author's reply
I hate to have to write this time of desperation - but there it is... I'm glad it comes through to my readers. It gets worse! But then it will get better. I hope the Cat is around to see it!
I'm glad you agree with the muse - that the Cat really had to 'speak' with Faramir...
Thanks for reviewing!
Larner
· 10 April 2008
· Chapter 13: Unveiling
At least for the moment he knows that the cat loves his father and will do his best to care for him. And he has plans....
Author's reply
I hope you are right - that that is one weight off of Faramir's shoulders as he goes to do the impossible... hold the garrison of Osgiliath for one more moment.
Thanks for reading!
Grey Wonderer
· 10 April 2008
· Chapter 13: Unveiling
Alqualondë is needed everywhere! The poor dear is trying so hard to comfort both father and son and they do need it. You can see Faramir's concern for Denethor in the way he relates to the cat. I had tears in my eyes during the part about finding Boromir and laying him to rest. Wonderful chapter.
Author's reply
Thanks GW - I'm sorry it brought you to tears - but perhaps in a happy/sad way?
Isnt' it wonderful that Faramir knew that the Cat and Denethor needed each other??? Love a happy Cat/Master relationship... or is the cat the master???
Blessings!
eiluj
· 9 April 2008
· Chapter 13: Unveiling
Ah, so sad!
And what a surprise that he spoke to Faramir. I look forward to seeing Alqualondë's interaction with Faramir after he returns to the city.
Author's reply
Up until now, Alqualonde has not shared his secret with any but the Steward. However, his deep love for the Steward's sons forced him... he could not let Faramir leave thinking his father did not love him, or that Denethor would not 'guard his back.' So he was forced to give up his secret... But what else could a cat of quality do???
Pearl Took
· 7 April 2008
· Chapter 12: Comfort
Yes, look beyond, Denethor. You've sat in your own city for too long. I'm glad Alqualondë is beginning to see the wisdom in the larger picture.
Well done, Agape! :-)
Author's reply
One cannot fault Denethor too badly, I think. He firmly believe that if Gondor falls all of Middl-earth must fall. So to prevent that - he must concentrate on Gondor. Because we can see the whole picture, makes it no less true for Denethor. Mithrandir sees it - but he is a Maia - what would one expect!
Denethor has watched his father battle the Enemy since he was a child. He took his father's place and did battle also. Then, he sends his sons and they battle. Denethor and his sons are too close to the problem... they are caught up in the fighting and the death and destruction. How can they possibly see beyond that? Especially with a palantir telling him that all is lost. *shivers*
Though the cat listens and believes Mithrandir, his love for Denethor will never fail and he will, for a time, make excuses for the Lord of the City.
shirebound
· 7 April 2008
· Chapter 12: Comfort
I hope our dear cat gets to meet Merry, Frodo, and Sam.
Author's reply
Well - the title has to do with Elessar as King - we can only hope!
The cat thanks you for the endearment.
Grey Wonderer
· 7 April 2008
· Chapter 12: Comfort
So now Pippin is beginning to learn how to talk to Alqualondë. It is very important to understand what cats are saying, all cats I think. They know things.
I feel so sorry for Denethor in this chapter. It seems that he not only doubts Faramir's feelings for him but also thinks that Gandalf has replaced him in Faramir's heart. I know what's coming but I can't help but wish it were different.
Author's reply
Ah, GW! It is very important to understand a cat. They carry such comfort with them if one listens..... and they know things.
It is a slow progression of lost love and trust - without communication. One wonders how often they saw each other these last years. It would seem the sons would always be off on some campaign or the other. With Sauron showing Denethor only the bad things in the palantir, what else would he think? He must have felt that he had no one about him whom he could trust. *shivers*
Larner
· 6 April 2008
· Chapter 12: Comfort
Sauron's despair is heavily upon Denethor this day. And love the growing respect for the unmet Frodo. He would do well to nurture that respect.
Author's reply
Faramir definitely spoke kindly and with respect of Frodo. And the cat, though he does not alays agree with what Faramir does, loves and respects Faramir. Ergo - the cat will love and respect Frodo. That will be a fun meeting, I think!
Dreamflower
· 6 April 2008
· Chapter 12: Comfort
Poor Denethor! For one normally so discerning, how little he understands of both Faramir and Gandalf. Of course, the way the palantir has been at him, no wonder he judgement has become clouded. It was clear from so many little things that Gandalf said, that even in his disagreements with Denethor, he still respected him.
And Faramir never lost his love for his father, even though he could see and respect Mithrandir's wisdom, as his father could not. I wonder what lay back of Denethor's hostility to Gandalf...
Alqualonde is, as always, delightful. He's such a cat--*chuckle* I loved his thought about the milk, and angling to still get breakfast, LOL! Isn't that just like a cat?
Author's reply
I truly believed Denethor respected Gandalf. He was accepted in all the meetings. He also was given ALL the passwords for the seven gates. He was obviously allowed access to a LOT of Minas Tirith.
However, Denethor is still grief-struck over Boromir, not sleeping probably at all (which can be attested to that it is at night that those in MT have seen the light in the Tower and say that it is Denethor battling the Enemy), and that Faramir has disobeyed him entirely by letting Frodo go - rule #1 - obey your Steward. And if the Steward happens to be your father - maybe obey him even more.... As for Denethor's hostility towards Gandalf... it seems to me to stem from the time Mithrandir backed Thorongil with Ecthelion. An extremely difficult time for the son of the Steward. How far, he might have wondered, would Ecthelion and the wizard go (for Ecthelion valued Mithrandir) with Thorongil? Would they have made Thorongil Captain-General after the Battle of the Haradrim in 2980????
As for the cat, for the nonce, he still wants his food!
Grey Wonderer
· 5 April 2008
· Chapter 11: Understanding
Once again I have to admire Alqualondë's loyality. No matter what things seem to be, Alqualondë stays true to Denethor. The conversation between Alqualondë and Gandalf was very entertaining in that both of them are very strong-willed. I liked the fact that while neither of them agrees with the other, both were willing to listen. Lovely chapter.
Author's reply
There is nothing that could sever the cats friendship and loyalty to Denethor - nothing except death. I know the cat will listen to others, and I hoped that Mithrandir would listen to the cat. Neither of them is stupid. LOL
Linda Hoyland
· 5 April 2008
· Chapter 11: Understanding
Very well put that it is a cat and mouse game.Denethor's greatest folly is thinking only of Gondor.The cat is becoming wiser than his master because he listens.I'm loving this story.
Author's reply
Thanks, Linda. Very glad you're enjoying this. The cat appreciates your enthusiasm too, but he warns you that he will not allow foul talk about the Steward. One has to draw the line somewhere....
Szepilona10
· 4 April 2008
· Chapter 11: Understanding
I am enjoying your story! Write more soon please!
~Szepilona10~
Author's reply
Got a bunch of chapters ready to post... Very glad you're enjoying this!
Larner
· 4 April 2008
· Chapter 11: Understanding
Ah, that the fate of all should lie bound up in the fate of a small golden trinket born by a Hobbit armed with a sword he can barely bring himself to use, his wits and endurance, and the support of the most faithful of friends. And so great good came out of great evil....
Author's reply
If Alqualonde is using Peregrin as a gauge for Hobbits, then he can't have had much confidence in Frodo. At least not yet. Peregrin will show his honor in the final hour.
Oh - Except for the respect that Faramir shows the Hobbit. Because of that the cat can hope.
Fiondil
· 4 April 2008
· Chapter 11: Understanding
A most disturbing conversation between Alqualondë and Mithrandir, but the Wizard is wiser than either Cat or Steward in this and of course we know (now) that Denethor's beloved Boromir would have sided with Mithrandir and Faramir against his father in this. Very sad, but very true. We see this happening even today. Good chapter. Very mind-provoking. The image of Alqualondë curled up beside Pippin is very sweet and brings to mind many happy memories of my own cats (when I had them) curling up next to me, offering me comfort even as I offered them my own.
Author's reply
I think the cat was looking for a little comfort himself... though he definitely is not shy about sharing comfort. :)
As for their little chat - it was difficult for them both. But I think they both have respect for each other and will give thought to what the other says. At least, that is my hope.
Pearl Took
· 3 April 2008
· Chapter 11: Understanding
‘yet he disobeyed his Steward! How does one overlook such a thing?'
Alqualondë will soon learn a very hard lesson on the subject of obedience.
Playing cat and mouse - well said indeed!
A wonderful chapter, Agape!
Author's reply
I cannot begin to even think of how difficult a soldier's life can be. What decisions must be made, now and again, when the course of action takes a turn different than what one would expect. And then have to 'go against' everything you have been taught. I do not envy soldiers, nor their commanders. We have seen it too often in the RW...
The line seems very thin, to the cat, in this instance. Did Faramir choose rightly? Was Denethor right in trying to 'save' Gondor in any way possible? Did the cat think Denethor had the strength to endure and refuse the call of It? He loves the Steward. He believes in the Steward's strength. In his mind, Denethor would not fail. Denethor could hold It and not succumb. At least, until his little talk with Mithrandir. Who knew the thing could be so very evil?
Thanks for reviewing!
shirebound
· 3 April 2008
· Chapter 11: Understanding
This is a fascinating 'conversation' between wizard and our "little Swan". And the thought of the cat sleeping on Pippin's bed is lovely.
Author's reply
The cat is still shaken, though he wisely pretends he sleeps with Pippin for the Hobbit's sake... Please, tell no one of this weakness of his!
Dreamflower
· 3 April 2008
· Chapter 11: Understanding
There I watched, upon my sill, as hope flared in Mithrandir’s eyes. He did not chastise Pippin for his question about hope – it exuded from him. I watched in amaze as he paced the little room, flinging his arms about him, and speaking of chances, of mistakes turned to right, of hope. My own hope flared.
What a perfect description of Gandalf the White's role at that point in the story!
Alqualonde is a very wise and discerning cat, yet his loyalty to Denethor has a blind spot. It's one a very great many creatures, many of them roaming about on two legs today, make: thinking that to be loyal means the object of one's loyalty must always be right. Learning that sometimes Denethor can be wrong may not be easy, yet he'd serve his lord better with his eyes open than shut.
And trust a cat to understand perfectly the role Gandalf proposes. He knows very well the ways of predator and prey.
Author's reply
Denethor has always been the prey... and that is why the cat gives him his respect and love. He sees Denethor's courage as he slips and slides all of Gondor through the hands of the Enemy, ever knowing that, in the end, he most likely will be eaten. *shivers*
Alqualonde thanks you for recognizing his 'quality' but reminds you that one should not judge too harshly if one has not padded in the pawprints of another.
The scribe aplogizes for the cat's lack of tact.
Linda Hoyland
· 3 April 2008
· Chapter 10: Daggers
The confrontation was especially scary through the cat's eyes.I wonder what he thought Faramir did so wrong in the past?Pippin is blessed to have a feline friend.
Author's reply
For all of Alqualonde's wisdom, he cannot see that Faramir might have done the right thing when he let Frodo go, which was expressely against Denethor's orders... The very same orders were used in Rohan and eventually ended with Eomer's imprisonment in Meduseld.