Nilmandra
· 23 December 2006
· Chapter 2: They led their lives free of care
You always write such great conflict, and there is plenty of it here. Oropher's guards are a hoot, and the general reaction to Glorfindel as well. So much tension, so many things assumed and probably incorrectly at that. I am as curious for the event and to learn what bedlinens have to do with it as anyone.
And Glorfindel shining... well, yeah, I am way enjoying that. :D
Author's reply
THank-you Nilmandra!
so many things assumed and probably incorrectly at that You are right. We all have to make assumptions daily, but then we must be ready to confront those with facts...and change our mind when we are proven wrong. Everybody here ispurusing the same goal, but individual interstes are at time conflicting with the general one because of certain lack of communication.
Nilmandra
· 23 December 2006
· Chapter 1: Sent by the Valar?
I'm finally starting your story, and I'm glad I waited until I could enjoy it fully. I recall the free-for-all on the shores of Beleriand and how well Oropher isolated himself with his constant criticisms and antics! Your Gil-galad has aged well, as has Elrond. And Elrond and Erestor appear to work well together in more than maps, LOL.
I am intrigued by your Glorfindel as well, and the underlying conflict he has with Gil-galad.
Ooh, and Ereinion has an elleth he is courting?
Author's reply
Thank-you, NIlmandra, I can picture you reading in your comfortable surroundings! ;-) Hope you enjoyed.
Oropher intrigued me after reading several fics in which he is either a totally misundesrtood hero or a total villain...I chose an Elf self-assured enough not to care much about what others think of him. ANd also one who is still working through the rage and impotence of Doriath being ravaged by Dwarfs first and Fenanorians later. Time and distance suited him well, I hope.
While Glorfindel's arrival must have taken some time for everybody involved ( himself included) to adjust, precisely in a moment where things were getting darker.
daw the minstrel
· 23 December 2006
· Chapter 3: A shadow arises that hates us
Sobering news for Oropher, but I like the fact that he's willing to leave the forest and come to do politics, which he doesn't like, because it's necessary for his people and all of ME. Still, this presages what happens in Mirkwood in the Third Age too, where they deal with evil for years before it preys on the other elven kingdoms.
Author's reply
Thank-you, Daw. I like the paralell that you draw with the Third Age. With the Rings at work, The Havens, as well as Lorien and Imladris are dozing in their perfect surroundings, while the Silvan in Greenwood will have to bear the return of the shadow from the very first moment. But Oropher will not be there to see the irony... ;-(
French Pony
· 20 December 2006
· Chapter 2: They led their lives free of care
You have a very delicate hand with high comedy and farce. This chapter is wonderfully witty, but still crackles with the tension that Oropher brings with him wherever he goes.
All caught up now!
Author's reply
Oh, that's a huge compliment! That is exactly what I am trying to show... thank-you very much! ;-)
All caught up now! Hope it was not too painful...;-)
French Pony
· 20 December 2006
· Chapter 1: Sent by the Valar?
I love the way you write Oropher. He is such a character. He is, of course, a wise and shrewd leader, and he does put himself out for his allies. But he's so woefully lacking in people skills that his other qualities tend to get overlooked. And old Glorfindel there isn't helping, either.
Author's reply
Thank-you, FP! I am glad if it entertained you a bit!.
This Oropher has grown in me. Gil-galad's court is still trying to adjust to the unexpected arrival of Glorfindel, and the return of Oropher, with two guards who had never before got out of their forest, can be a bit too much for all involved...
Bodkin
· 19 December 2006
· Chapter 2: They led their lives free of care
I'm not sure that the inhabitants of Lindon wouldn't wave Glorfindel off happily on a protracted visit to Oropher's realm. They don't seem entirely sure what to do with him. And I'm not sure he's entirely sure what to do with himself, either. (Although the female inhabitants seem to have some ideas ...)
And I have the teensiest suspicion that Oropher is charging down entirely the wrong path.
I love his ferociously attentive guard - who is really feeling rather out of his depth and looking to his lord for protection from the dangers of a stone building with extensive - and unexplored - corridors.
And poor Maentêw! Do we find out how his leg came to be so badly broken? He could do with having Oropher approach him a little more conciliatorily and actually spend some time in conversation! (He might well find that you discover more if you are not constantly challenging those in conversation with you.)
I look forward to finding what the dawn brings. And whether Oropher manages to find his bed.
I do love the intricacy of all this.
Author's reply
Thnk-you Bodkin.
Glorfindel is trying to find his pace there, as a newcomer, and the court is also trying to adapt to that strange presence. But they will fit, eventaully, I have no doubt.
And I had fun picturing Oropher's guards, Silvan and Nandor, at a stone house in a city. I think they are doing splendidly, for Elves who had not left their
forest before and were sent to cross middl-earth.. ;-)
And yes, we will get to know more about what happened to Maentêw.
Redheredh
· 18 December 2006
· Chapter 2: They led their lives free of care
After all we know that Celeborn knew them...but had forgotten them! Huh? Now, this is the second time I have heard you say that... Please don't let there be a third!
The elf remembered the ents. Boromir and Aragorn knew about them too from legends about Fangorn Forest. It was the hobbits (and therefore also the reader) that did not know exactly what was being alluding to. But, when Celeborn reminded them of the peril of that wood and Aragorn says nothing (thus avoiding sounding foolish), Boromir claimed to be a formidable adventurer (just because he made it to Rivendell) and considers those tales of little consequence. ['Then, I need say no more,' said Celeborn. 'But... ] you are an idiot for disregarding what the wise learned the hard way and never quite forgot. 'Course he said it more courteously than that. (Galadriel had already gotten on his case about how to treat their guests no matter how irritated he might feel) Although, Aragorn obviously listened to his advice. Nonetheless, Celeborn had to be miffed at Boromir to cut off the conversation like that.
Also, both Aragorn and Legolas knew what ents were when Gandalf used that word during their reunion. [I thought they were only a memory of ancient days...] [Yet even among us they are only a memory.] Still, they did not know just who Treebeard himself was. Treebeard calls Lothlorien queer and perilous too. When he parts with C&G at Orthanc, Celeborn calls him Eldest. Beside acknowledging Fangorn to the oldest Ent, that epithet is used specifically for Tom Bombadil and Telperion, which make it even more respectful. And I think someone had to have gotten the Tree Sheperds positioned to intercept the dwarves as they fled before Beren and Dior. Perhaps the Lord of Eriador who lived on the other side of Mount Dolmed?
So, I really do not think Celeborn forgot about Fangorn or the Ents. We just were not told about them outright for dramatic reasons.
Author's reply
Sorry! sorry! *ducks and hides.*
I fear I was following Barbol's opinion that the world has changed much and Celeborn was left behind his forest... You are right, and it was inconsiderate on my part! ;-) Thank-you again.
meckinock
· 18 December 2006
· Chapter 2: They led their lives free of care
This is all so densely layered with clever lines that I keep re-reading it to catch the bits that I missed the first time. Oropher continues to be spendidly kingly, and I especially enjoyed Glorfindel's over-zealous laundry maids and Erestor's accusations of inconsiderate blazing. Enormously enjoyable. Your command of language and humor is wonderful.
Author's reply
Thank-you, meckinock.
Dense is the word, I fear! :-) I keep trying to smooth it and making it easier, but I am not very good at editing and simplifying, it seems. Poor GLorfindel is trying to find his place in Middle-earth, which he no doubt finds disconcerting and fascinating, after all his previous experiences.
Redheredh
· 17 December 2006
· Chapter 2: They led their lives free of care
I laughed through this whole chapter! Oropher rolled his eyes. Exactly!
I remember reading that bit about the Numenoreans cutting down trees in Ennor, taking over the lands they worked. No doubt the lumber being used for ships, but also shipped back home as building material and fuel, I'm sure. This resource would be a valuable commodity for their island, similar to oil in this century perhaps. Unless they were also hunting whales... great nations always seem to have a hearty appetites...
Ah but, I now venture to guess the ceremony you are leading up is not one of such gaiety as a betrothal. Rather a departure, and the ellyn are just trying to make it easier on the one leaving by showing they can get along without her. Poor Gil-galad... *sigh* another embarrassment for poor Oropher too...
Again, I believe there are fewer open secrets in Ennor than you. The Onodrim being one of them. Though I really like references to the Old Forest as such and the effect the returning shadow is having on it. I would have reserved that until the progress of the Witchking of Angmar, though; when men are encroaching into those forests, elves would have left them alone. Am I right in saying that we both assume Bombadil did not take up residence until long after the invasion of Eriador in the coming War?
One last remark about one of the footnotes - whether or not a prince actually does the work himself, he will be credited with the construction. Especially if he is as philanthropic and as enthusiastic *about* architecture as Finrod. But then, Prince Albert did build the Crystal Palace, did he not. ;)
I liked this clever chapter quite alot.
Author's reply
Thank-you, Redheredh, and very alert reader that you are! ;-) Although I suspect that Oropher is very difficult to embarass. It is not his fault, after all, if they talked openly, he would not have to figure up things!
I do not think that there are many secrets in Ennor. Just things not widely spoken of. The ents would be known to the Elves of Ossiriand, and I had Oropher staying in Ossiriand after the fall of Doriath in another tale, so I suppose that he would have met them there. After all we know that Celeborn knew them...but had forgotten them!
Regarding the Old Forest, I am assuming that at tis time it stretched even wider than it was in the times of the Witch King of Angmar, and there were many scattered human communities around Nenuial and to the east which were "friendly" to the elves. THe evil things in the Old Forest were not linked to Sauron, if we trust Bombadil, and as Tolkien says in one of the letters, the ancient tings that lived in the Old forest reacted against misuse and abuse of the trees. Now, the numenoreans had been cutting trees unrestrictedly for seven hundred years now, so I figured that in a time of gathering darkness the "rotten" spirits living there could very well expresss their malcontent, without the need to await for the Withc King.. ;-)
I do not know about Bombadil...nor intend to deal with him! ;-) but I have no trouble seeing him living in the same area for long! After all, we can well assume that once these lands to the east were little inhabited and the forest lands stretched wide and dense!.
And regarding the footnote... I use "architect" in that sense: the one who plans, directs, oversees and even takes up tools to give some touches to the works. They built things, these guys, and after all, they had to pass the time somehow, didn't they? ;-)
Thank youv ery much for your time, Redheredh, and apologies for this long winded reply!! Re-checking details is always a pleasure, thanks!
daw the minstrel
· 16 December 2006
· Chapter 2: They led their lives free of care
I do like Oropher and his guards. Their suspicion of Gil-galad and his court and their refusal to admit they're lost are both amusing. So what is this ceremony?
Author's reply
Thak-you, Daw. This Oropher has grown in me. Suspicious and self-opinionated as he is, now he finds himself with an even more suspicious guard, so he has to keep the balance. I think he has grown up as well...
Bodkin
· 15 December 2006
· Chapter 1: Sent by the Valar?
I'll bet even the passage of a millennium and a half isn't enough to make Ereinion delighted to see Oropher again. And it seems as if he hasn't overcome his tendency to be contentious just for the sake of it.
However, some things do seem to have moved on rather over those years. The palace, for example. I liked Oropher getting lost therein - even if he called it reconnaissance - and ending up detached from his minders. And his uncertainty about Glorfindel was most amusing - long may it continue. Elrond has grown up and into his role - he's not a barely grown elf about to be deserted by his brother any more.
You do intrigue so well - the intricate manoeuvring of people all of whom have their own agenda and none of whom is willing to concede - or explain - or just simply sit down and talk through a problem without trying to gain an advantage over everyone else.
Love it.
Author's reply
Thank-you, Bodkin, I am glad that you are enjoying.
I think that Oropher feels he has many reasons to be contentious...apart from just enjoying it, but we must admit that he behaved pretty well this time... More than a thousand years have passed for all of them and some have most certainly grown up.
The shadow is getting stronger again, and since they are all well-intentioned and responsible leaders, they will have to find out their common interests despite their doubts and their misgivings regarding all of the rest...
Redheredh
· 11 December 2006
· Chapter 1: Sent by the Valar?
Ah! You never fail to find the irony in politics or procedure. :D I can see that your councils are as orderly as they used to be... LOL! Go on...You are my guest, enjoy yourself... ROFLOL!
This was indeed a very enjoyable beginning, I must say! I cannot wait to hear whatever actually happened to Maentew! I kinda like the Druedain showing up as an interested party. But where are the other mortal representatives? As you point out, there are men living all around the elven kingdoms and definitely at Nenuial (which I think is spelt with one n and not two) at this time in history. The whole business about who is a King and the King had me snickering in a most unlady-like fashion. But, I have my doubts that anyone other than those very very close to Cirdan and Gil-galad knew who Glorfindel really was until the incident with the Witchking.
Love having Erestor back and grinning at Elrond as a 'fair-haired boy'!
Glorfindel not being absolutely sure about a situation was refreshing too.
I think I am going to like Oropher's guards. :)
Now, I could be nit-picky about a few minute details... however, I will choose only one for the moment. East Lorien does not exist until the War of the Ring. But, I can see the convenience of using that placename in this story.
Most of all, Gil-galad having a lady love made me very happy. imho Much much closer to what would be the Professor's take on him - Thanks for taking that path.
OK then, ready for more!
For this sort of thing, I *make* time.
Author's reply
Thank you, Redheredh.
Your nitpicking was fair and accurate and much appreciated, as always. Oropher was playing with the general ignorance of the lands beyond the mountains so as not to give away more than he intended, but it backfired and he soon found himslef considered a vassal of Amdir's or even of Gil-galad's! (I thought you would appreciate that discussion!;-)
So I went back and tweaked a line or two so it was not a plain lie, or against canon but just Elrond's not so accurate data...
THe whole tale came about as I read about the deforestatioin caused by the Numenoreans east and WEst of Tharbad, and suddenly I found it impossible to resist a look at Gil-galad through Oropher's eyes in this serious moment, qwhen the evil is awakening again. And an overly perfect, recently landed Glorfindel would be another distorting look upon this court of Lindon. I seriusly hope that it turns out entertaining, but thank you for finding the time! ;-)
meckinock
· 11 December 2006
· Chapter 1: Sent by the Valar?
Wow. The meeting of all these strong-willed people with political agendas reminds me of work! Oropher is a hoot. I love him swaggering in like he owns the place, and it's been a long time (ever?) since I've seen anyone view Elrond as an upstart. I liked how Oropher doesn't know who Glorfindel is - it shows that people in ME don't all know one another or exchange emails. Loved the discusssion of Annatar, especially Glorfindel's statement that he is not in deep counsel with Manwe LOL.
Author's reply
Thank-you meckinock, I'm glad that you embarked in this one!
It reminds me of work as well... ;-) It is plain that we work for sister giant squids...
Oropher grew on me as I wrote New Beginnings, set at the beginning of the Second Age, so Elrond was quite young then, and in that tale they have some tense interactions. So it was a temptation to have a look at them as the shadow grows again and Glorfindel lands in lindon from the Blessed realm and all those feathers are ruffled in the name of the general well being.
daw the minstrel
· 10 December 2006
· Chapter 1: Sent by the Valar?
I liked Oropher groping in his mind for Glorfindel's identity. I also liked his getting lost. LOL. The palace sounds very nice, with its buildings on several levels and garders.
You know, when Gil-galad said he had pressing business, for some odd reason I thought of a woman and wondered if we knew whether he was married.
Author's reply
Thank-you, Daw. I enjoyed being in Oropher's mind and seeing an unidentified reborn just sitting before him...
and wondered if we knew whether he was married You wondered. Oropher just jumped on to the assumption. ;-)