Oh, such a wonderful look at Elros before he left Ennor, a youth new-come to his choice....
Wonderful, to think of finding that hope that sustains and is, all to often, all that sustains yet is enough.
Lovely, Bodkin.
Author's reply
Elros had to have hope, I think, to do what he did. It was almost a choice in reflection of his father's, really - to sail away at the behest of the Valar and begin again, apart from everyone he knew and loved.
And something similar, maybe, pushed Oropher towards the east, where he could take up his own battle.
Thank you, Larner.
Denise
· 7 March 2007
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
This is beautiful, Bodkin! The parallels between the two chapters (ancestors/descendants, mists/wights, the massive impending changes) are very well done, and you wove in the bits of foreshadowing masterfully. Scanning some of the previous reviews, I must add that I also think a Legolas/Aragorn Ch.3 would be supremely fitting, and tie all three ages together marvelously... :)
The only slightly confusing part for me (not having read the story when Ch. 2 was the only chapter) was that I started out Ch. 1 expecting it to be at night due to the title. However, the images of the blood-red ocean after Beleriand's destruction, and then of Elros washed by the light of Earendil's Silmaril, were both just perfect.
I loved Oropher seeing aspects of all of Elros' different ancestors in the young mortal at various points in their conversation; and Elros' comparison of the Valar to eagles raising squirrel kits (snort!). Elros' request of Oropher to look after Elrond ties nicely to Oropher's participation in the Last Alliance, when Thranduil's opinion might very well have reflected that of most of the Wood-elves.
I (happily) read the second chapter twice in order to catch all of the references, before we see who the two characters really are. Very moving and humorous exchanges! I particularly liked the bit about intemperate Wood-elves, and Isildur's reflections on how elves always expected men to stand watch while the elves undertook any action.
No matter how bleak or challenging the future looks in either age, your quiet but firm underlying message is one of hope and friendship, and I love that most of all. Thank you for sharing this.
Author's reply
Thank you, Denise! I should have pointed out in the summary that the first chapter was the new one - and then it might have shown that the title was actually attached to the second! The third chapter won't have the same problems! (Because, yes, there is going to be one. It's more or less done!)
Oropher / Elros - in some ways it was the most difficult meeting, because they were probably least likely to spend time in each other's company. Although - random thought occurrence here - maybe that fits, too. Elros/Oropher - big age difference (in the barely adult to before-Anor-rose kind of way), not very well acquainted, probably not much in common; Isildur/Thranduil - both mature, been allies for seven years, even if they didn't know each other before, come to friendship; Aragorn/Legolas - friends to the point where Legolas remains in Ithilien and Middle-earth beside the king restored.
The whole Hope thing makes a great tool - from Gil-Estel down to the child raised in Imladris. I'm glad you enjoyed this.
Raksha The Demon
· 7 March 2007
· Chapter 1: A Star of Hope
Ooh, what a lovely vignette. I don't think I've ever seen a conversation between these two before; and it's written beautifully. Though young, Elros shows the insight that will help make him founder and first king of Numenor; as well as a certain vulnerability. The bit about Elros and Elrond only being able to connect to their family through the sight of their long-gone father's star is wonderful and sad.
There really should be a third chapter, with Legolas and Aragorn the night before the battle of the Black Gate or something.
Author's reply
Thank you. Elros is young, but he is still the product of a lot of powerful lines coming together - and the progenitor of kings. His experience must, I think, have given him extra resilience in some areas, but also left him vulnerable - especially where relationships are concerned. It is a shame that Elros and Elrond were separated - and it must have been harder on Elrond who was left behind - since about the only family they had left was represented by Earendil's star.
The third chapter is pretty much done. It just needs to rest awhile.
daw the minstrel
· 6 March 2007
· Chapter 1: A Star of Hope
I know I'm supposed to see the Valar's curse as justified, and the Sons of Feanor did some terrible things, but when you see how other suffered for it, I have trouble seeing the justice. It seems right that Oropher mourns for the land as well as the people.
Elros's youth is interesting to me here. I don't usually think of him as that way when he went to Numenor, but it's obviously entirely possible.
Author's reply
Yes. It's such a sweeping thing - and includes so many who never did anything wrong. And so irrevocable, too. The destruction of Doriath and the drowning of Beleriand would, I'm sure, have made Oropher very angry and resentful (- it doesn't take much, I feel. He is ... mercurial.)
Elros is young. He's about 60, I think. Which in elven terms is nothing. Barely adult. And he lives another 400 years or so (dredging faint memory here). He has, of course, been through a lot - but he's had quite a fractured youth. I think he would be - old in the way of war, but young in other ways. Probably family-related. The choice he made, too, seems to me to have something of the optimism of youth. And he hasn't actually gone to Numenor yet - there's a fair period of preparation, as I recall. (Goodness, but I'm being incoherent! I'll stop now...)
ellie
· 6 March 2007
· Chapter 1: A Star of Hope
What wonderful chapter! Very insightful and full of hope in the face of despair. I wasn't expecting the change in Oropher and at first I kept thinking the boy was Elrond. I love your writing!
Author's reply
Thank you! It must have been a terrible time. The aftermath of war is - it seems to me - often more shattering than the war itself. I suppose it's the time when emotions have the chance to catch up with actions.
Elros makes a better link here - after all Isildur and Aragorn are his descendants. Oropher can be difficult - but I think he would not be able to avoid feeling sympathy for Elros and his brother. Or be able to forget that they were Elu's only living descendants.
Shann
· 6 March 2007
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Hey there,
I remember reading this the first time around. ; ) The added first chapter was quite good though, I'm glad you decided to write a 'prequel' of sorts...
~S
Author's reply
It came to me when reviewing that Elros / Oropher could have had a similar experience at the end of the First Age - while, of course, Aragorn / Legolas doubtless had their moment at the end of the Third. (Which will come in due time!) Two families with a very long history!
MithLuin
· 4 February 2007
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
I did not figure out who they were until we got the names, but I knew it didn't fit into LotR anywhere. Very well done, and great atmosphere! I see in your answers to the other reviews that you were considering doing an Aragorn/Legolas conversation and an Elros/Orophin one to bookend this - that would be very interesting! To see each Age end on the eve of battle, while similar (and yet different) elves and men debate. Elros was young, it is true, when the War of Wrath began, but he was nearly 60 by the end of it, so it's feasible.
Author's reply
They could have been Aragorn and Legolas - at least at first glimpse - but they just have different characters!
I do actually have most of an Elros/Oropher story written - although it turned out to be after the battles rather than before. If it only comes to a conclusion of some kind, it might get posted.
Thank you, MithLuin. Nothing like a bit of encouragement to get the imagination sparking.
Le Rouret
· 8 January 2007
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Wow, wow, wow.
My heart actually turned over when I realized it was Thranduil speaking to Isildur! What a great twist! And this fic was full of so many good lines:
‘You had not before experienced the delight of friendship with a real elf – only those of Noldor blood who take themselves far too seriously.’ That made me laugh, and I was positive it was Legolas speaking to Aragorn. And this: ‘We do not stand alone – we are the product of all that has gone into making us. Blood, training, experience – we balance on the shoulders of those who have brought us to this place and our people stand behind us. For good or ill, we are their delegates at this knife’s edge. We do what we can.’ I just muttered, "Wow," after I read it.
I had never considered exploring a possible friendship between these two much-maligned characters, but you've done a fabulous job with it. Bravo!
Author's reply
Thank you, Le Rouret. Although I didn't intend to cause medical emergencies! I think Thranduil was lighter in heart at this point - even though confronted by war, he had not yet experienced the loss of his father and so many of his warriors - or the resurgence of Dol Guldur. And Isildur wasn't a bad man - he has such a bad press, but, really, who can be surprised that he failed to destroy the Ring? He and Thranduil - it is an interesting possibility. It made me wonder about Oropher and Elros. Or maybe, since Elros is a bit young, maybe Oropher and Dior ...
I am delighted you enjoyed the story.
Maid of Ithilien
· 26 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Allow me to add to the chorus of praise for this story -- and very well-deserved it is too. The atmosphere was just right for the night before such a momentous battle. The wights were a wonderful addition. And of course, the main characters -- it seemed just a little off for Aragorn and Legolas, but I couldn't think who else it could be. The story is constructed so well as it leads us wondering down its path. Thanks for writing and sharing -- and thanks to Karenator for having a birthday to inspire it. :)
Author's reply
Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I wanted the characters to seem Aragorn / Legolas -like at first sight, but then ... not - so I'm glad it worked. The wights - well, the Dead Marshes are a very spooky environment, and I shouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that there was something there before the battle ...
The period before a battle - it must be a terrible time. Even without knowing the outcome, those waiting are aware that the world is about to change. Quite horrific.
And birthdays are good! An excuse to produce stories - what could be better?
harrowcat
· 23 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Brilliant Bodkin - and well deserving of so many reviews.
Author's reply
Thank you, harrowcat. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm surprised how much response this tale has had - but delighted by it.
Nilmandra
· 22 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
I was glad to see this in the second age.. and to see this battle of words between Thranduil and Isildur. That Isildur would think into the future to think that Thranduil would be there to see the end, however far off in the future it may be.
The wights are well done too - tantalizing, teasing, trying to lead them astray. Thranduil is indeed far more than he seems.. and I like him lighthearted here - and we all know that some words do indeed became reality. Poor Isildur. Would any of us have done better?
Author's reply
Thranduil is more light-hearted here - he has yet to experience the military disaster that it just round the corner. One that soured him on war and alliances, I suspect. But he is dangerous - and possessing a power that I think Isildur would find disconcerting. And possibly resent. Isildur is more accustomed to being powerful, I think, than Aragorn was (at least until the Fourth Age!) And less accustomed to the peculiarities of the Firstborn.
And this will become the Dead Marshes - possibly there were these elements of an earlier power there before the shadows of slain warriors joined them in the water.
I think Isildur took the decision he thought right. And it's easy to second guess him because we know what happened later - but it seemed a sensible decision at the time. And it's a shame that his whole reputation is shadowed by this mistake - because he did a lot of other things as well. But that's history for you! Written by those who survived it - and won.
elliska
· 22 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Wow, Bodkin! This is amazing! I loved trying to guess who the speakers were. Obviously, we were supposed to have to figure it out since you avoided naming them. And of course Aragorn and Legolas are the first guesses--and its fun to see th similarities between the true characters and Aragorn/Legolas. One can certainly see how A/L came to their personalities. That was great!
But there was so much more to this story than that. So much meaning to their conversation. I especially love this: And will end in hope.
Great story!
Author's reply
I hoped the automatic assumption would be that it was Aragorn and Legolas - and then maybe just not seem quite like them! And there are definite resemblances between them - but the differences just begin to show as you think about them. Thranduil is - to my mind - considerably older and more experienced in the ways of the world than his son. And more dangerous, too, in many ways. Isildur is accustomed to ruling - and to taking command. Less familiar with elves, too, and probably less willing to take instruction from them. He would see keeping the Ring as his decision - while Aragorn would know from his education and his foster-son role with Elrond that the elves had a much better understanding of the long view of history. Mostly because they had been there throughout it all.
The 'hope' line - it just wrote itself. And was so clearly right for their conversation! Thank you, elliska. I'm glad you liked it.
Selene
· 21 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Well you sure had me fooled. I love seeing Isildur in a different light for once. You don't read to many stories with him in it. It's incredible how you portraited to two of them, it's not hard to see the traits that we have come to know in Aragorn and Legolas. They are just enough to let you believe that this story was about them at first, but some thing were defenatly off so I knew it wasn't them. Great job well done Bodkin!
Author's reply
I'm glad it fooled you! I hoped it would. Isildur doesn't make it into many stories - well - not much of the Second Age does, really. And it's sad for him - (except he's a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't really care!) - that he is only remembered for not destroying the Ring when he had the chance, because he had achieved a lot before that.
There are similarities between I/T and their situation and that of A/L - but there are differences, too. Isildur was more used to bearing authority, I think. Less familiar with elves and less willing to take advice. Aragorn had spent most of his life suppressing his wishes to serve Middle-earth - and had grown up in Imladris, learning the wisdom of the elves. Isildur grew up in Numenor in its last days, with Sauron whispering in Ar-Pharazon's ear. While Legolas can be dangerous - but not, I think, as dangerous as his father!
I'm pleased you enjoyed the story. Thank you.
JastaElf
· 21 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Oh, to be thought worthy of such a birthday fic!! *happy sighs*
This is positively brilliant!! *applause* The characterizations are SO very well done... and one can see where Isildur's famous descendant and Thranduil's adorable son received their parental imprinting. *g*
Thank you for sharing this! It was really, really well done, and I love it!!
Author's reply
Thank you, Jasta. I'm glad you enjoyed this! There is a resemblance between these end-of-Second-Age warriors and their end-of-Third-Age offspring/descendants. But differences, too. I think Thranduil is more dangerous - and Isildur more accustomed to ruling. Perhaps it needed the more self-effacing? controlled? - er - ruling-through-service? - I dunno - qualities of Aragorn and Legolas to pull off the Ring's destruction. Sudden thought - it would be very interesting to think about what might have happened had it been Thranduil who cut the Ring from Sauron's hand.
meckinock
· 20 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
A ghost story for Karen - Yay. OK, you had me fooled. I couldn't figure out who it was. Somehow I never imagined Isildur and Thranduil together, and Thranduil so wood-elfy, yet. But dangerously wood-elfy! As always your descriptions of the cold rain sent me lunging for a blanket. And of course Thranduil's characterization of Isildur would just as accurate for Aragorn:
‘You are the pivot on which the world turns, Isildur Elendil’s son.’ He smiled wryly. ‘For good or ill, I know not.’
And I liked Isildur's prescience in predicting that Thranduil would still be around to witness the ultimate outcome. Kind of ironic, since it was his actions that caused that outcome to be delayed by an Age. A wonderful story and a fitting birthday present for the Queen.
Author's reply
Thranduil has definitely dangerous overtones! He's old enough and experienced enough - and in tune enough with the world around him, even here before he's had an age of being king, to pack a sort of power with which I don't think Isildur is all that familiar. Isildur is more accustomed to being about the most powerful person around. And there are interesting parallels between these two at the end of the Second Age and Aragorn/Legolas at the end of the Third. And writing replies (and I'm sorry to be so long getting around to them. It seems to have been a very busy week,) has made me begin to muse on a First Age parallel between Elros and Oropher and wonder if that might have been a possibility!
I don't think Isildur would have expected to be the pivot in quite the way that it turned out. Or had any understanding of how his actions would affect the world. But then, I suppose none of them did. Even Elrond's realisation was probably more in retrospect - or he might have tried to do more to nudge Isildur over the edge.
Thank you, meckinock! I'm glad you liked it.
Silvae
· 20 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Teehee! I got fooled! This was wondeful, and I really appreciated the twist at the end. Poor old Legolas never had a chance... Your depiction of (fore-)fathers was refreshingly different, and always funny.
Thanks for this, it made my day!
Still chuckling,
Silvae
Author's reply
Thank you! I hoped it would take people a while to realise it wasn't Aragorn and Legolas! It's interesting to think of a wary friendship developing between Thranduil and Isildur - and it end would certainly make Thranduil aware that man/elf friendships could be painful. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
The Karenator
· 19 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Oh, wow! This is just gorgeous. The imagery is breathtaking.
Like everyone else, it took me a while to figure out who the two were. For a moment, I thought it might be Legolas and Aragorn, but the relationship, the way they related to one another was off.
There were so many layers too.The man’s dark eyes brooded over the shadowed countryside. ‘It began in such hope,’ he said.
‘And will end in hope.’ Ahhh, estel.
He was gone before the man had opened his mouth to protest. Arrogant, he thought resentfully: that was elves for you. Pleasant enough most of the time – but, when it came to a fight, they would leap into action and leave men standing. Most of them found men to be a liability in battle, he knew – slower-moving, less skilled, less observant and not so quick-thinking. And, of course, they had the experience of millennia to call on at need – as men never could. He should be used to it by now – but he still found he resented the assumption that he should keep watch while the elf took action. Resentment makes people do funny things. That, of course, was not Isildur's only motivation in deciding to keep the ring--the ring itself was a problem--but you've shown us a seed of his personality that in the end makes a difference in one form or another.
‘You are the pivot on which the world turns, Isildur Elendil’s son.’ He smiled wryly. ‘For good or ill, I know not.’
Thranduil was indeed insightful. Actually, he's right about them both. They are their father's sons and by the end of this battle, both will be king of their people.
But the wraiths! Holy moly. They were wonderful. Spooky, but wonderful. Again, the descriptions were so vivid, I could see the milky apparitions that seemed like common vapor or fog, yet something about them was different, dangerous. Oh, man, Bodkin, that was great.
Thank you so much for this wonderful story. It's unique and beautifully written. Most of all, thank you for your time in doing this. It's not like you have an extra box of minutes lying around that's not already earmarked. Thank you again for this most appreciated gift.
Author's reply
You know I was thinking about Isildur and power - he has a whole different experience of it when compared to his descendant. He is of the royal line of Numenor (cadet branch) and saw no reason why he and his seven ship-loads of kin shouldn't just come and assume the kingships of Middle-earth. He expects to rule - and I suppose part of that is about taking advantage when it is offered to you. He's one of the Faithful - but his experience of elves is limited. Why should he accept their wisdom unquestioningly? Even if the one telling him to dump the Ring is great-great-etc-grandpappy Elros's brother. Aragorn, on the other hand, has lived a life in shadow, learning to fight to defend his people without making a show of it. (Although he can do show very well when it is demanded of him.) He was brought up by elves in Imladris and has been educated to understand matters that Isildur just didn't. Perelleth's musings make huge sense in looking at Isildur, I think.
I'm glad you started by thinking they were Aragorn and Legolas - and that it didn't seem quite right. (And I was just thinking that and A/L version before the Black Gate and an Elros/Oropher one at Angband might make interesting conversations.)
The Dead Marshes - perhaps were not just a result of the battle ...
I'm glad you liked it, Karen. I hope you had a good birthday - and I'm very pleased to have written this as a celebratory offering. Have a good year.
Larner
· 19 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Aha--a wonderful twist, showing the son and descendant are very much like Thranduil and Isildur, including their relationship.
Lovely, lovely story, Bodkin.
Author's reply
You know I just wondered about a story with Elros and Oropher at the end of the First Age! I don't know if it will turn into anything - but three linking stories at the end of three ages might be very interesting to write.
There are definite similarities between A / L and I / T, but there are differences, too. Isildur's life and Aragorn's have been very different - and he's more than twice Aragorn's age too. While I think there might be another level to Thranduil's power. Maybe.
Thank you, Larner. I'm glad you liked it.
Pearl Took
· 19 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
This was wonderful, Bodkin!! I don't think I've ever read a story from that era before. Well done!!
Author's reply
Thank you, Pearl. I don't think I've read many from that period myself ... Perhaps there's an opening there for more tales! I'm glad you liked it.
Armariel
· 19 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Oh tricksy, tricksy.......well, I was sure that wasn't Aragorn aat the beginning, just didn't sound like him! The elf could have been Leggy, I suppose...turns out to be his dad instead! Cool! Haven't seen many fics written about Isildur. It was nice to get to meet him. Very nice exchange between the two.
As always the atmospheric details are vividly rendered, especially in the first paragraph. Could almost feel that cold rain on the back of my neck!
~~~{~@
Author's reply
I hoped you would start by thinking it would be Aragorn and Legolas - and then begin to wonder. Isildur doesn't seem to be featured in too many stories - but he was 230 years old (ish) by this time and he did a whole lot of things that should have made him a legend. And all he ever gets remembered for is that Ring! And, indirectly, I suppose, for begetting Valandil etc.
Glad you liked the atmosphere - it made me very glad to huddle up in the warm and dry!
Gwynhyffar
· 19 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
That was great. It took me awhile to figure out who was talking and I'm not real sure how I did - you made each of their voices so unique that even though some of the feelings being expressed were similar to Aragorn's and Legolas' they were expressed slightly different from what would be expected for them. I think it was something Thranduil said that tipped me off - or him looking off and thinking of his home in the green trees. I really enjoy how you weave your words - I know I've told you that before, but I'm telling you again. I could see everything as it was happening and that is amazing.
Author's reply
Thank you, Gwynhyffar! I hoped readers would start by thinking they were Aragorn and Legolas - and then begin to wonder. Isildur and Thranduil began to insist on being more themselves, too, and refusing to pretend they were those youngsters.
I'm flattered that you enjoyed the story! It was a fun one to write.
Redheredh
· 19 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
This was excellent! Such wonderful writing - I am always flabbergasted by
your talent.
I wondered who you would picked for this conversation and was so very pleased that you thought of putting Isildur and Thranduil together. Leading into that revelation was very well done. What an atmosphere you created! Humor and dread! They were more than what they seemed - even to the reader. :)
Do you not know that words give life to the thought? I absolutely loved that bit!
And a Happy Birthday to Karen, too!
Author's reply
Thank you, Redheredh! I'm just coming up with a vision of Oropher and Elros shoulder to shoulder before the end of the First Age now. Although Elros would have been a bit young to be friendly with Oropher in quite this way.
Fear of the unknown - so often humour seems to be the best weapon. And I can't imagine either of these two indulging in sentiment. I have begun to think rather about Isildur - he got a bad press due to that final hiccup, but he was pretty heroic before that. And isn't it true that you should watch what you say, just in case...? It always seems to work that way for me.
Raksha The Demon
· 19 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
A great vignette about two characters not paired often, if ever, in Tolkien fanfic. The fact that it occurs right before such a crucial, and fateful battle, adds immediacy and urgency to the tale.
And I loved Isildur's last line! It sounds typical of a warrior who has fought many battles...
Author's reply
I started with the idea of trying to make it seem as if two people were talking - and then it proving to be two others. But Isildur and Thranduil made themselves known quite quickly - and I think they might well have been drawn into alliance. If cautiously! And they must feel as if they are - potentially - at the end of all things here.
And a lack of rain is definitely a positive. I daresay warriors soon learn not to expect too much! Dry clothes and a hot breakfast - they will, I suppose, make matters seem better. At least for a while.
Lady Bluejay
· 19 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
Beautiful descriptive writing - with a twist in the tail, thankyou.
BTW, don't give the matching titles a thought- and Lia came up with mine, anyway. LBJ
Author's reply
I tried to make it ambiguous - but bits of Thranduil and Isildur's character just insisted on sneaking in!
Titles are just so hard! Sometimes they take longer to come up with than the whole story! Titles and names.
perelleth
· 19 November 2006
· Chapter 2: Beneath a Gibbous Moon
I can only sympathize with Isildur. It has not stopped pouring down since yesterday, and being outdoors has made me feel real miserable today, so I had to laugh when I sat down, warm and cozy, and found this!
These too are rarely seen conversing, but I like the different sides they represent, and how acutely aware of differences the man is. And I am, as usual, speechless before your talent at witty dialogue and brilliant descriptions. And inspiration. We are so lucky!
Happy birthday, Karen!
Author's reply
The rain just fell from the sky this morning here. Bad enough to be out for a brief while - but to be cold and wet and facing the prospect of battle ... Nasty.
Isildur would, I think, have been more aware of the differences between men and elves than Aragorn. I doubt he had much acquaintance with the Firstborn before the Wave - and to be with an army of them. Some of whom would, no doubt, have insisted on telling him how they ordered battles in the War of Wrath and speaking of Elros as if he was a lad ... And elves have, of course, a quite different kind of power.
This was fun to write. I'm glad you liked it!