Florrie · 23 May 2014 · Chapter 3: The crossing
What an incredible story! It's been a long time, but I wish you'd come back to it!
Author's reply
Yes, many things have happened to get in the way, but I will cone back.
Ithilien under shadow by Nesta
Reviews (19)
Phyloxena · 3 August 2013 · Chapter 3: The crossing
Is there an update coming? Poke, poke. I hope you get emails from the site still. This story must go on!
Estel · 29 January 2010 · Chapter 3: The crossing
Great beginning! Would you perhaps consider to add a chapter? I would love to read more. And it would really be a shame, if you would not finish this story:)
Author's reply
Many thanks, Estel! I certainly want to add more chapters - it's just finding the time. You have encouraged me to try a bit harder!
dastaes · 21 March 2009 · Chapter 3: The crossing
I loved this story the first time I read the very idea of it in your summary, and I am so glad that you have updated. I love how you have this ghostly voice of Faramir guiding his descendant. Please update soon.
Author's reply
Thanks for reading! I'm beginning to see some ways this could develop...
phyloxena · 21 March 2009 · Chapter 3: The crossing
Use the force, Cirion! Sorry, can't resist.
Author's reply
Hope he does!
phyloxena · 21 March 2009 · Chapter 3: The crossing
Oh, it's all very fine with the old Prince to laugh, him being dead and all that. But Cirion's new dignity and wittiness will get him in trouble before he accomplishes much. Seriously, great. I liked Cirion's simple questions, and the idea of king carrying papers, and enthusiastic singing. Is there more to come? One small thing: The old Prince would have come down and placed himself between Andil and the King’s men and told them to let him go, and they would have. Andil, huddled on the grave, could see the scene in every detail, and the Prince’s face was his own face, only older, stronger, and completely fearless. -- shouldn't it be Cirion huddled on the grave?
Author's reply
Doh, you're right about the mistake! I've corrected it. Quite likely Cirion is heading for trouble, but he's not going to be a pushover - I hope!
BM · 20 March 2009 · Chapter 3: The crossing
Very interesting! Heartbreaking to see the state that Gondor has sunk to, and while I adore Cirion, I fear for him and am waiting anxiously to see if he achieves his heart's desires. Are there any of Aragorn's descendants that are true to him? And you are doing an excellent job of history repeating itself, for the same thing happened in Numenor of old........ Thanks for sharing!
Author's reply
Yes, the end of Numenor was pretty horrible, wasn't it? JRRT knew that Men were infinitely corruptible, and the corruption could set in at any time. On the other hand, there are always men who resist and aspire to noble ideas - people like the Faithful in Numenor, or the German opponents of Nazism. Most ordinary people will just try and survive from day to day, but if they get the right leadership, remarkable things can happen ... we shall see.
Raksha The Demon · 20 March 2009 · Chapter 3: The crossing
Go, Cirion! (and poor Andil). I hope you will write more of this story. How many years have passed since Elessar's reign ended? Is the current king a grandson, great-grandson, great-great-grandson, or a more distant descendant?
Author's reply
I think it's quite a long time since Elessar's reign ended - at least a couple of hundred years. That may not be a long time in Numenorean terms, but doubtless Aragorn's descendants were progressively shorter-lived. There'd be no one in Cirion's Gondor who remembered Elessar's reign.
naine · 16 November 2008 · Chapter 2: The likeness
I think you got it very well. Anger, fear and shame are three words which can neatly sum my life under communist regime.
Author's reply
May thanks, naine! Having had the great good fortune to live all my life in a free country, it's difficult to imagine what it must be like to be so repressed. The consolation is that fifty years of repressive communism doesn't seem to have destroyed the true spirit of the peoples that it dominated. I'm sure that applies to Gondor too ... must get on with this story soon.
Edlyn · 6 July 2007 · Chapter 2: The likeness
This is the start of an excellent tale. Are you planning to continue it? Even if you don't, these two chapters are well worth reading just on their own. It's frightening to think about but no matter how excellent a King is his descendants are not guaranteed to be as noble hearted or as unselfish. Well, our own world has had plenty of tyrannical kings and even just incompetence, it isn't surprising that Middle Earth (being a part of Arda Marred) would have them too. The mention of the lords' heirs being hostage for their father's good behaviour made me shudder. Well, reading about the practice in history class made me shudder, too. That alone tells me what the current king of Gondor is like even more than the mention of the soldiers coming for the minstrel. Wonderfully crafted and well-written, mellon-nin! Edlyn
Author's reply
Thanks for reading! I've been waiting to see how the story evolves - I think I'm beginning to see, and it will be continued.
phyloxena · 25 June 2007 · Chapter 2: The likeness
Numenorian (and Gondorian) constitution is a recipe for disaster. This kind of rule didn't work well for the societies of the few immortals, and certainly cannot work for more numerous and less consistent human populace. I imagine Aragorn (personally) more democratic than anyone else in Gondorian aristocracy, Faramir included, just because he knows from personal experience that men can watch after themselves, even in crisis, without royal guidance in every matter. I doubt he could preserve this part of his legacy. Unless Eldarion was made to travel in disguise for some twenty years to learn hands on.
Author's reply
I'm rather puzzled by JRRT's addiction to despotism in LoTR, after he'd seen what it could do in the real twentieth-century world. He pointed out himself that Aragorn's descendants would degenerate into tyrants, though he didn't make it clear how soon this would happen. I'm sure Aragorn wouldn't be despotic, but he certainly could have been, constitutionally. Denethor, personally, seems to have all the makings of a despot, but the society he presides over doesn't seem to be a crushed or tyrannised one, though it is strictly disciplined and authoritarian. In time of war, however, this is understandable. Both Denethor and Boromir are very insistent that Gondor is 'free', and I'm sure this wasn't meant ironically by the author. As you so rightly say, Aragorn has knocked about a bit and acquired a realistic and humane attitude to power. I'm impressed by his apparent resolve (as conveyed by Gandalf to Barliman) not to interfere with societies, like the Shire and Bree, that get along perfectly well in a sort of peaceful anarchy. The Shire system is obviously the one JRRT himself likes best, but he of course realises that it will only work on a small scale. And it's very vulnerable to outside pressure, as we see when Sharkey gets going on them. Faramir hasn't had this knockabout experience, but he is a very wise and insightful sort of person and it strikes me that he would always lead rather than drive. However, it would never occur to him to question the King's absolute power. He'd seek to influence, not to confront. And if it came to the crunch, Faramir - along with all the rest of the Council - could simply be overruled, just as he was by Denethor. Just the same, it's a system that is wide open to abuse, and of course it was abused in Numenor and I think it will be abused in Gondor. Democracy, of course, has its faults, but personally I agree with whoever it was said that democracy is the worst possible system, until you look at all the others!
phyloxena · 30 October 2006 · Chapter 2: The likeness
It's so tense, so true and so sad. Please, continue.
Author's reply
Thanks! I'm working on it.
Peredhel · 28 October 2006 · Chapter 2: The likeness
I was afraid you had abandoned this! I'm hoping desperately that Dagnir is entirely trustworthy. He *seems* like it. Cirion does need to learn some caution. I love the idea of Lossarnach, and the echo of 'Steward's Men.' Faramir might have been unwilling to call, but Cirion? Cirion's scruples are also an excellent touch; it's not just 'things are bad, rebel.' (I also love that Cirion's name *is* Cirion, who was such an excellent Steward.) With Raksha, I'm hoping for at least a redeemable member of the royal family!
Author's reply
This gets added to whenever I get an inkling of what happened next. I rather think there are complications in the royal family tree. There are certainly some good sprogs around somewhere!
Linda Hoyland · 27 October 2006 · Chapter 2: The likeness
This is a very interesting idea and well written, though as a great fan of Aragorn, I don't much like to think his descendants were tyrants. Where did Tolkien say that? I Have only read LOTR and the Simarillion. I like the idea that Raksha has that a good member of Aragorn's line could eventually rule instead, who was as like Aragorn as Cirion is like Faramir.
Author's reply
JRRT certainly had the idea that Aragorn's descendants would become tyrants, or at least, far less virtuous than he was: 'the people of Gondor in times of peace justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless - while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors - like Denethor or worse' (letter dated 123 May 1964). He doesn't actually say they would become tyrants (was Denethor a tyrant?), but they definitely fell away from Aragorn's standards. No blame to Aragorn himself, of course! JRRT did start writing a tale called 'The New Shadow', set only a couple of generations on from LoTR (it's in the supplementary volume called 'Peoples of Middle Earth'), but he abandoned it as 'not worth doing', which I'm sure was wise. It would be too purely 'human' a story to fit into Middle Earth as he'd developed it - but it's precisely that aspect that attracts me. I'm all for monarchy myself, but not for absolute monarchy. As I imagine it, the trouble in Gondor comes chiefly from the lack of checks and balances in the Gnodorian constitution. JRRT said in another letter that 'a Númenorean king was monarch, with absolute power of decision in debate'. That's all very well if you are dealing with a wise and just king like Aragorn, but what if you aren't? How are you going to modify his excesses, if his word is quite literally law? Wouldn't people naturally look to the old 'caretakers' for support? That's my idea, anyway. I'm still trying to work out the implications, as you can see. Thanks for reading, Linda!
Raksha The Demon · 25 October 2006 · Chapter 2: The likeness
Cirion's channeling Faramir - neat! And I have to wonder if Dagnir is a descendant of Beregond. Couldn't there be one viable, good-hearted person left in the King's line - say, a princess who Cirion could marry at the end? More, please.
Author's reply
Thanks, Raksha! Dagnir is certainly a descendant of Beregond. I think this is another post that became de facto hereditary. There has to be somebody decent in the royal family somewhere - after all,they have some of faramir's blood. I haven't met them yet, but I'm sure I will.
Rugi · 23 October 2006 · Chapter 2: The likeness
You have really put your finger on the difficulty involved with attempting a successful rebellion. And your portrayal of the pain of living under repressive rule is spot on perfect. I felt as frustrated as Cirion did. I like that Cirion now has a connection to Faramir which he can't take with him everywhere.
Author's reply
Thanks, Rugi! This is a dark story - in a completely different way from the darkness in LoTR - but it does try to go in the same way that JRRT was going when he started on 'the new shadow'. I've a feeling that Cirion won't be easily deterred, once he decides to do something about it - especially with Faramir backing him up spiritually.
AspenJules · 3 October 2006 · Chapter 1: Ithilien under shadow
Wow, Nesta... very dark! The writing is well done, however, and there is a definite rise in the tension. What has happened to the line of Kings? As the others asked, how far into the future is it? I DO hope that it's not Eldarion who is the present king, I would certainly hope he was raised better than that. What will Cirion do, if anything? Are you going to write more? I hope so... though if it continues terribly depressing I'm not sure I'll be able to continue reading it, solely because I need a little more lightness and cheer in my reading. Anyway, well done!
Author's reply
Thanks, Aspen! It is rather dark, but that's hw it came into my mind. If it goes on, I'm sure it will get better, because I hate sad endings. It certainly isn't Eldarion who is the king - we are several generations further down the line. I'd always thought of Eldarion as a thoroughly decent sort of king, as kings go.
Raksha The Demon · 3 October 2006 · Chapter 1: Ithilien under shadow
Interesting story! But I wish you had finished it, it really needs to go a bit farther, in my opinion. There's all this wonderful tension rising, and Cirion needs to make some decisions. How old is Cirion? And is the story set in the time of Eldarion or a son or grandson of his? Or even later? I loved the image of Cirion finding comfort and inspiration in what was remembered of Faramir. How awful that his and Eowyn's portraits were removed. Please consider expanding this story.
Author's reply
Thanks for reading, Raksha! The king isn't Eldarion - we are much further on. I think Cirion must be fifteen or so - old enough to consider himself a man, in a crisis. He certainly isn't going to sit there and do nothing. Something may happen about the portraits.
Peredhel · 2 October 2006 · Chapter 1: Ithilien under shadow
You did it! And it's marvellous, in a creepy dark way. One can just see it. The present King must be quite awful. So, how far are we in the future? And he's ignoring Arnor... hmm, sounds promising. Well, I'm hoping for eucatastrophe -- I like Cirion. He sounds very young, doesn't he? I love the idea of the Stewards' rule as a sort of past golden age, since they *did* do it so well. Ah, I'm rambling. Needless to see, I love it.
Author's reply
Thanks, Peredhel! I don't know how far in the future this is; at least four or five generations. JRRT did say that Aragorn's descendants would turn into tyrants, and this is obviously one of them! He didn't say that people would naturally look to the Stewards for redress, but I think they would.