In His Wisdom by Gwynhyffar
Reviews (19)
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Redheredh
· 10 December 2007
· Chapter 4: Cry Havoc
Yay! You updated! :D
What a jolting start! For us readers and the wood-elves!
How interesting to bring in the Entwives! I am pretty sure being taken as slaves means they were going to be forced into growing food for the orc armies - or maybe serve to provide better food as perks to Sauron's commanders. But, imagine having to eke out produce in the lands of Mordor. They would eventually perish from the labor...
I absolutely loved Thranduil's conclusions about Oropher being 'generally right' and his 'immovability'. "...and I see your hand in it as well." Poor Oropher. How did he lose trust in everyone? What that "something" was between Celeborn and Oropher would be very interesting for you to reveal. Please, please, please! No doubt 'something' to do with Galadriel? ;)
For myself, I enjoyed Celeborn's appearance.
Best thing was the contrasting difference in Oropher's and Thranduil's tactics in resolving the command heirarchy. Whose to say which way should settling the matter be done? I enjoy Oropher's theatrics, but admire Thranduil's quieter approach.
However, I really would have like Thranduil to have been calm enough to convince Galion what they were doing was right. It almost sounded like that was the reason why Galion had come to him - to be converted to Thranduil's way of thinking. Which had been changed by what they both had witnessed. And Thranduil abandoned him rather than struggle with his questions. I expect by the time he becomes King, Thranduil will have aquired more patience and more than Oropher ever had.
"What sort of person becomes king in order to control those around him-whether they will it or not?" Oropher asks, but he should know the answer. He was there when Gil-galad become King. Or was he asking that question of himself? Interesting...
A good chapter! Looking forward to the next whenever it shows up. :)
Author's reply
I did! Finally! :)
I can't imagine how awful it would have been for the Entwives, and yeah, I agree, they would almost certainly have been worked to death.
I think Thranduil is on a journey of discovery right now. He is beginning to see his father through other people's eyes and is gaining a more balanced view of both his and Oropher's strengths and weaknesses. He doesn't realize it, of course, but it's happening nonetheless.
Galadriel certainly had 'something' to do with the 'something' between Celeborn and Oropher! That might be another story altogether, though. We'll see!
I'm glad you enjoyed this chapter, and thanks for reading. I am hoping to update sooner than a year from now!
starfox
· 9 December 2007
· Chapter 4: Cry Havoc
First of all I will comment and say it's about time you updated! *grins* Now seriously, I enjoyed the chapter very much. It was as well done as the previous ones and a delight to read, especially to someone like me who loves different pov's on the history of ME. The description was excellant and I could picture the terrible scene that Thranduil came upon and almost smell the smoke myself. And you have got to love Oropher. No nonsense and taking nothing off anyone; elf, human, or any other race! I look forward to reading the next chapter. Soon. Hint, hint.
Author's reply
Thanks, Starfox! I just can't see Oropher being the sort who lets other people tell him... anything really. When he's had enough, he's had enough and that's that.
I'm so glad that you enjoyed the description! That is one area that I really had to work hard on, so I'm glad that it came out well.
I will try to update sooner than a year and 1/2 from now! :)
daw the minstrel
· 9 December 2007
· Chapter 4: Cry Havoc
I really like what you've done with this chapter. The wood elves come across as a wholly different culture from men or the Noldor, and Oropher understands that, while apparently Gil-galad and Elendil don't.
I also like the bit about the Ent wives. I'm trying to wrap my mind around what bad guys would do with an Ent wife!
Author's reply
I think that the wood-elves would have to have very different ideas on things, given that Legolas is described as a 'strange elf' in FotR. I don't think Gil-galad or Elendil have had any real exposure to the woodelves. Probably Celeborn understands that they have very different mind-sets than the Noldor and probably even the Sindar, but Oropher is a big pig-headed here and isn't going to listen to Celeborn no matter what he has to say.
I read in Letters where Tolkien says some were taken away to be slaves. ... I can't see that either.
Author Reply: I just reread what I replied to you and I meant to say that I read in Letters where Tolkien says some of the Entwives were taken to be slaves. I still can't see it!
Idhreniel
· 15 November 2006
· Chapter 3: The Die is Cast
I like the way Oropher approached his son... very sad, but true words.
Author's reply
I think Oropher is well aware of what can happen in war. He has seen his fair share.
Redheredh
· 2 October 2006
· Chapter 3: The Die is Cast
Nice chapter this. The little elleth was sweet and a perfect example of what they were facing death to protect. There was a lot of very natural feeling interaction here, too. Poor Thranduil. Life promises little but momentary happiness now. I like Oropher wisely not leaving unpleasent possiblities completely to chance. Whether that is Amdir's non-cooperation or his own demise. Don't get me wrong, but I enjoyed the contrast between the beginning and end. Plus, how things are slowly - but perceptively - sliding closer and closer towards the precipice Thranduil dreads.
Author's reply
Sadly, Oropher is more than aware of what can happen in battle. He also knows what it is to be the one who survives. I'm glad you're enjoying the story and thanks for the review!
elliska
· 30 September 2006
· Chapter 3: The Die is Cast
Catching up on reading as usual...I really loved the little girl at the beginning of this chapter and Thranduil's concern for the young volunteers (home before snow! How is it that all young people think things like that--every war has had them). It does a good job of showing how much Greenwood sacrificed since we how few of these elves return. Very sad. And of course I loved the conversation with Oropher. We know he's right. Also very sad.
Author's reply
Thanks for reading, Elliska! Young people always seem to be convinced that they are invincible and bastions of strength, I think. It's sad that they have to learn the truth of the matter and usually learn it the hard way. The little girl doesn't really understand what is happening, but she knows that she has to do her part, so she does. I love little kids.
Bodkin
· 28 September 2006
· Chapter 3: The Die is Cast
What an ending! Oropher suspects he might not make it - I wonder if that's foresight, an understanding of his own character or just a greater awareness than most of the dangers of war. Of course, in battle the king is a target, no matter how well-guarded he is - and probably has a greater chance of being killed than an individual warrior.
I like the elleth at the beginning - and the young warriors convinced they are invincible. And Thranduil's determination to leave them to guard the wood - and the wood to guard them.
Thranduil will need his friends before this is over. I hope they will still be there.
Author's reply
Oropher knows the possibilities of war and that as a fighting king he has a bulleye on his chest. I think he also knows himself and is honest enough with himself to know that it could be the last battle he fights.
Thranduil thinks it would be a good idea to leave some behind to take care of their home - and to grow up a bit before sending them off to war. Too bad they can't all just stay home.
French Pony
· 27 September 2006
· Chapter 3: The Die is Cast
Oropher is right. Thranduil is indeed an effective leader. He's got that touch, and can communicate just as well with a little kid as with overeager novice warriors. Already you can see where the whole "greatest King of the Wood-elves" will come from.
Author's reply
Thranduil is concerned about impetuous young elves rushing off to something they have no understanding of. He thought the little girl was cute. :)
daw the minstrel
· 26 September 2006
· Chapter 3: The Die is Cast
I can see the hard struggle Thranduil went through to leave his home weakly defended, but I think my favorite parts of this take place while they're on the road. I like the novice master and Thranduil's gratitude that he's no longer under the master's thumb. I also enjoyed the joking among Thranduil and his friends, and even the suggestion that things are complicated enough that Oropher hasn't had a chance to talk to Thranduil for a few days. Oropher may have chosen to enter this war, but he didn't do it blindly. He seems to know what it might cost.
Author's reply
I think Oropher is more than aware of the cost of war. He isn't a stranger to it and he knows that anything can happen. Thranduil is pretty aware of that too, but he's also concerned with what's going to happen at home while they're away. His friends help keep his mind off of all things serious, even if only for a few minutes.
Thanks for reading! :)
Redheredh
· 13 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Reconsideration
This chapter offers quite a few whys and wherefores about Greenwood's participation in the Last Alliance. Very nicely done explanation and examination of a vital decision. One of the great advantages Sauron, and Morgoth for that matter, always had was their vast numbers of orcs. Somewhat like in warfare today, it seems only intelligence (secrecy) and 'technology' were what the elves had going for them.
That situation was definitely there at the end of the Second Age. Without their numbers, the Alliance would be overwhelmed and a dark wave would slowly devour all the Silvan as well.
I like that Thranduil was uncertain whether Oropher is right in fostering what could be false bravado or needed moral.
Author's reply
Oropher knows that the time has come to stand up and help in the struggle against Sauron. He also knows that because of Sauron's weakened state, there isn't a lot of time to spare. Thranduil is afraid that the bravado Oropher is fostering will lead to a skewed sense of ability rather than simply high moral.
Thanks for reading!
Bodkin
· 8 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Reconsideration
Thranduil's right in some ways. But then, so is Oropher - and he has a greater experience of the world beyond the wood. It's probably a good thing that the pair of them can debate the subject.
Oropher did a good job managing the council!
But seeing Thranduil looking back on it ... outcomes obviously influenced his thoughts on the LAoMaE. He was unlikely to make the same choice at the end of the Third Age even if matters had been different - but war came to him and the forest anyway.
Author's reply
Oropher knows his people and how to get what he wants and needs from them without seeming too overbearing.
Thranduil can argue with Oropher, but in the end Oropher has the final say no matter what Thranduil thinks and he has to try to support that decision. I think the events at the end of the 2nd Age would have left him better prepared for the events at the end of the 3rd Age.
Nilmandra
· 7 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Reconsideration
Knowing Oropher's fate only heightens the tension of his arguments with Thranduil and his proclaimation about the Greenwood! How hard it must be for Thranduil to remember this conflict with his own father, much less tell it to his own son. In some ways he will be prophetic, I'm sure, and in others it is almost self-fulfilling, between his fears and knowing his father's impetuousness.
Legolas may learn more than he ever thought.
Author's reply
I think Thranduil would look back on it all with some anger mixed with... well, all those other emotions that spring up from having survived something so horrific when others that you really care for didn't. The conflict beforehand just makes it that much worse.
There are some things that you can try to tell someone, but even if you are eloquent enough to describe those things, I'm not sure anyone can ever really understand without having been there. I would imagine Legolas gets a taste of it later, though.
daw the minstrel
· 6 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Reconsideration
Nicely done argument, Gwyn. The wood-elves must have been unfamiliar with this type of warfare. They'd have a hard time imagining a land not filled with trees. And yet, the Alliance did need them. A true dilemma.
Author's reply
Thanks, Daw. I think the wood-elves don't really know what they're getting into. They have an idea that things will be different, but they really have no concept of the 'battle plain' that they are going to end up on. Oropher is one of the exceptions to that, but even though he has an idea of what they may be facing, he also knows that they don't have many options.
Redheredh
· 9 July 2006
· Chapter 1: To Speak of War
Well,I am thrilled that you have started a tale of these times. It is going to be another interesting and alos touching story, I am sure. You make this characters a vey engaging family to follow and portray Oropher as an elf with depth as well as height and breath. Those depths just seem a little murky to those around him sometimes. ;)
Author's reply
Hi Redheredh,
I'm glad you are reading! I credit Nilmandra with helping me out with this one, especially in characterization. Oropher is a complex guy, and I'm glad you are able to see that in the story. :) Of course, not everyone agrees with him, as we will see soon!
Nilmandra
· 4 July 2006
· Chapter 1: To Speak of War
I like how the conversation with his parents came out, with his mother aware of what is happening and yet trying to retain some sense of normalcy. And the wood elves wondering if this time Oropher will agree. It says much about Oropher that his people would follow him to war as they did. Good beginning.
Author's reply
I think the conversation with his parents is 100 times better now. I didn't think she would be completely in the dark about what was going on. I've always thought of Oropher as being king (forgive the Monty Python) by a mandate from the masses. They were impressed by him and made him their king. He would be able to inspire them, I think.
Thanks for all your help and patience (and 2x4's) on this!
elliska
· 4 July 2006
· Chapter 1: To Speak of War
Oh this will be wonderful! I had to laugh at the way Oropher handled the messengers and I enjoyed what you showed us of 'everyday' life in Greenwood and Thranduil's family. Sad that Thranduil was opposed to participating--it will make the end we know this comes to all the more bitter. I am going to enjoy this story!
Author's reply
Hi, Elliska!
I'm glad you are enjoying it already. Oropher has dealt with the likes of these messengers before. Thranduil has his own ideas of what would be the best course of action, and it doesn't involve marching away to other lands. Things are about to get bad for our hero, sadly.
Bodkin
· 4 July 2006
· Chapter 1: To Speak of War
Interesting times. And I don't think I've ever read a story that looks at this time from this perspective, so I'm already rubbing my hands together in glee.
It took two failed trips to try to get Oropher's support for Gil-galad to learn what he was doing wrong? That's a bit slow of him! He must have known from the First Age that Oropher needed careful handling.
I'm not surprised that Thranduil doesn't want to get involved in this. He is too young yet, it seems to have that strong a perspective on the greater good - and how one political situation can bleed into another.
But he is eyeing up a certain elleth! His naneth will be pleased about that - although I suspect there might be a few interruptions to any courtship.
Looking forward to seeing how this develops.
Author's reply
Thanks for reading, Bodkin.
Gil-galad was indeed a tad slow in realizing how to deal with Oropher, and Oropher is not the only one with a bit of pride when dealing with certain individuals.
Thranduil has his own ideas of what's best for Greenwood - as you will see. He is still a bit short-sighted when it comes to things happening beyond the forest.
This is not the time to be thinking about an elleth! :-)
French Pony
· 3 July 2006
· Chapter 1: To Speak of War
It sounds like this is a story that Thranduil needs to tell, and it does seem to be the appropriate time to tell it.
Oropher sounds like a guy who is clearly well versed in bureaucracy. He knows all the tricks, and these messengers just can't fool or cajole him. They'll learn soon enough that the way to deal with Oropher is with respect and honesty. But you can also see the streak of pride that will eventually be Oropher's undoing.
Now, I guess that by "a singing" in the woods, you mean a group of elves getting together to drink and sing lovely Elf ballads, yes? I tend to associate that phrase with Sacred Harp, so I had my own private giggle at the thought of Elves sitting in a hollow square. Either way, I would have loved to hear it.
Author's reply
I think the singing tends more toward the former than the latter, though them sitting around in a hollow square is interesting! lol
Oropher has dealt with these people before, and he isn't about to let them push him around. Thanks for reading, Pony.
daw the minstrel
· 3 July 2006
· Chapter 1: To Speak of War
"And we receive his regards in all the warmth with which they were sent."
LOL. Good one, Oropher!
It's interesting to see Oropher and Anirael together. She comes across as strong and in her husband's confidence. I was amused by her telling Thranduil he spent too much time in a cave. If only she knew the future!
There's a lively sense of elven life here, shown in the singing and the friendships and the normal life that's about to be torn apart.
I enjoyed this, Gwyn.
Author's reply
Thanks, Daw. I can't imagine Oropher's wife and Thranduil's mother being anything but strong. She would have to be to put up with those two!
Thranduil's life is definitely about to take a turn for the worse. I hope he enjoyed the singing.