harrowcat
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
So, another person or two discover who their new King was! This meeting was great but I want to know how he used to wake both Boromir and the Lord Thorongil if he didn't stand at a distance and cough. Shut the door rather loudly? Rattle the cutlery? Poke with a long stick? Tickle bare toes with the feathers on an arrow? Ok Ok I will stop being silly - I know most warriors sleep with their boots on still!!! *slinks away from review grinning stupidly.*
I did enjoy the whole chapter by the way!
Author's reply
Maybe we should ask Belveramir how he used to do this. But some of your suggestions make a good deal of sense, or could be fun to perpetrate. I love it, too!
Amy
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
*can't help dancing around in glee at the Thorongil parts*
I can imagine the book: Waking Warriors for Dummies!
Author's reply
Yes, I thought you'd enjoy this one, Amy. Glad you appreciate it!
And the book idea has me giggling in return!
shirebound
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
Belveramir shook his head slowly. “No, my Lord Thorongil, I am not sorry in any way.” He felt the great shock he’d experienced being lightened, and his face brightened, and suddenly he began to laugh. “All things are renewed indeed!”
What a lovely scene. I'm just re-reading the Appendices, and I had forgotten how loved and respected Thorongil was to all who knew him.
Author's reply
Have been rereading them myself to keep things as canon as possible, and so just read that portion myself. Am so glad that you appreciated this, and do hope that the older servitors in the Citadel appreciated it when they recognized Aragorn as Thorongil.
Kitty
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
LOL! The waking of the King wasn't exactly what I had expected, but it was certainly better than a frightened servant! Another one who knew Lord Captain Thorongil! And one of Hirigion's men - oh yes, I remember Idril's husband and Elise's grandfather! Nice reminder of "The Kings Commission"! :-)
We had many people who remembered Thorongil, but I don't tire in the least of this game - it's still so funny, and you are able to find a different way each time! *widely grinning*
I wonder what the servants of the Citadel think about their new Lord. (Well, save for Belveramir and the one other, of course!) It's so a huge difference to Denethor! Aragorn surely wouldn't have this blind obedience which did nearly cost Faramir's life, while Denethor probably saw it contrary. It must be quite confusing for them, at least in the beginning.
Author's reply
Well, I do try to tie them together. So glad you appreciated the reminder. And the game is already beginning. After all, Aragorn himself has indicated he is looking forward to such recognitions from time to time. That it would begin now seemed logical.
And it's always fun to think of Aragorn being such a contrast to Denethor. Some will never truly cope with the new relationships, but I think most would appreciate knowing the King cares about them, not as invisible servants, but as folk doing their duty to the realm with respect and honor, and reflecting that respect and honor on those they serve.
Thanks for the review.
Dreamflower
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
I like Belveramir.
So, the game begins. I wonder is Aragorn keeping score? I wonder are Hardorn and Elladan and Elrohir and Legolas taking wagers among themselves as to who will recognize him next?
I am not warming up much yet to Galador. He seems just a bit too prissy and full of himself still. Hopefully that will gradually change. If it doesn't I can't see Aragorn keeping him.
I love the end of this. As one more recognizes the King, he's sworn to secrecy. How funny!
Author's reply
Yes, I, too, like Belveramir, and am glad he and Aragorn look to continuing a good relationship. And the wagering on who will recognize Aragorn next is a good one--I'll have to consider that, particularly after the betting pool on when Aragorn would first seek just to run away from the crown for a time.
No, no one is warming up to Galador; but he knows his stuff and I'm certain that even Aragorn would recognize that competence and keep him on hoping one day he'll thaw and stop being so officious. Will have to work on that idea, I think.
And I do think Aragorn would swear those who recognize him to secrecy, both to keep down the confusion of speculation on what it means that he was once Thorongil if that were to be widely known about the place and to extend his own enjoyment of the game.
Thanks so much for the review--I'd not finished responding to yesterday's when this one was posted. Made me feel appreciated!
Antane
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
Another great chapter, Larner! I like these most as Frodo begins to deal with what's happening to him as opposed to all this 'setting up shop' that Aragorn has been doing in becoming king. The nightmares were very interesting - the need of Frodo to be the one chased, to protect those he loved with his Light. I never saw Sam looking to Frodo as a father, but definitely as a brother and later on as a child and how hard it was for him to watch his dear one degrade so. I hope you do more with them because in this story it seems to me they are little more than polite acquaintances instead of two people sharing the same heart and soul that your other masterpieces have shown so clearly.
Thanks for your response to my comment about how wonderful it was to see Frodo dancing - I, too, would have loved to have been at that birthday party, to see him so happy.
And now at the risk of sounding very stupid and ignorant, something I've been wondering about, being still very new to the LOTR, in another chapter you spoke of Frodo being well named - what does his name mean? What does Iorhael mean?
Namarie, God bless, Antane :)
Author's reply
Iorhael and Frodo both mean "Wise One." Iorhael is the Sindarin translation, and I believe Conin, which I'm certain he's called in the Field of Cormallen, is the Adunaic translation. Samwise, Perhael, and Berhael as Sam is called in Cormallen, mean "Half Wise." Part of this is discussed by Christopher Tolkien in his descriptions of his father's writing process in specifically his evaluation of the epilogue scenes his father had written but which he eventually decided not to include in the final version of The Return of the King. I first learned about them on the Internet, but then got my set by CT which describes the writing of LOTR, and this is in the fourth volume, "The End of the Third Age." Aragorn sends a letter addressed to "Perhael who ought to be known as Panthael"--Panthael being a translation of "Fully Wise." And it was for this that I had Gimli inscribe Pantheal on Sam's circlet of honor, and had this written on his memorial stone in "Filled with Light as with Water."
I decided that in ways Sam thought of Frodo as a father figure as well as brother and son due to the wisdom he felt Frodo held, undervaluing his own wisdom, of course. Hope that doesn't disturb you that I included this as well as the son and child views.
I do tend in this story to focus more on Frodo's relationship with Aragorn and himself, and so I am sorry to say that perhaps the relationship between him and Sam tends to suffer. It is not done intentionally.
Anyway, am glad you are keeping up with the story. Hope that it gives you a chuckle now and then as well.
The Umbarians were thrown out of the feast hall politely, but firmly *grin* And now they have to wait some days to meet Aragorn? That and the guards has put them in their place quite obviously. And they have some news to ponder, knowing how they lost their fleet - although I would argue the sorcery and dread spell, army of the death or no! - and all that what they've learned during the feast. Frodo as a great magician, LOL!
Can't wait for the next chapters!
Author's reply
People do tend others by the standards they themselves use; and as they would have had to use spells and sorceries to achieve such ends, of COURSE they think the new King and his followers did.
And yes, the idea of Frodo as a dread sorceror is hilarious to us, but what are those who are lacking in all knowledge going to understand this?
Thanks for the response.
Inkling
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 12: 12: Camp on the Pelennor
What a clever chapter! Of course Aragorn’s claim to the throne would have to be examined, but I’ll bet you’re the only one who has written such a scene. The reading of the Roll was described so well…the scroll, the rods, the carrier…I could picture it all. Frodo’s interest in it was a nice hobbity touch, too.
Loved the exchanges between Aragorn and Galador. And this made me laugh out loud: “You may find it easier to coax the statue of Isildur in the Hall of Kings to whistle, my Lord.”
Author's reply
I am surprised no one else appears to have thought of the need for some documentation for the one claiming rule, as it seemed obvious to me. And am so glad you appreciated the details given.
Of course Frodo would be interested! He is, after all, one of the Hobbits most interested in the outer world to have been born to the Shire--and it's only right he should be a witness.
And glad you love the exchange about Isildur whistling. That was fun to write.
Well of course their movements and discussions will be heard, seen and noted. Aragorn is no fool. I enjoyed this piecing together of information even if the picture it makes is still skewed in its perspective. We often force the facts to fit our own viewpoint and understanding instead of changing those in view of the facts. I am almost glad that they are afraid to meet Frodo, not least for Frodo's sake at the moment.
I thought the assessment of the hobbits was great!
Author's reply
So glad you appreciate all this, Harrowcat. And we do tend to filter what we learn through our own expectations. They will learn, but it may take some time. Although a concern about Frodo's potential abilities does indeed help protect him now, I agree.
Thanks so much for the feedback.
Ah...The old trick of finding a noble lady of the land and discreetly through the use of only just arriving find out exactly what they wanted to know. Only, they don't have the entire story. Not yet anyway.
I loved this though...
"The five of them looked from one to the other with uncertainty and discomfort. The idea of having sufficient power within oneself to withstand the desire to use the power inherent in Sauron’s Ring was a new one, and all were uncertain they’d wish to meet with the Ringbearer alone."
Poor Frodo...He wouldn't be able to end think of defending himself if attacked right now he's so weak and here these think he's an all powerful being. In his own way he is too. All who come to know Frodo do fall under his spell, but not the kind Wasnior and his men think.
And as worthy Aragorn's reasons for not meeting w/the embassy of Umbar, they are excuses to wait and watch. To say these four men will be watched is a grave, grave understatement. Am I being too hopeful in the thought that Pippin might be called to guard the Umbarians? Hmmm....Please? :oD That could turn some of their beliefs on their head in an instant.
Looking forward to seeing where you take us next Larner. :o)
Author's reply
Oh, good to hear from you, Tigger. Hope this means you are feeling better.
Yes, speaking to one of the ladies of the realm, particularly one with the reputation of being somewhat garrulous, has been a handy tactic for finding out news for quite the history of mankind, I suspect. So they're getting news, but perhaps not as much as they'd like.
And you are right--such an estimation of Frodo would serve to his defense for the time; how long before they become totally disabused, of course, would be questionable.
As for Pippin being one of those to guard the Umbarians--I'll consider it. Interesting thought....
Good to hear from you.
Well, Wasnior and his people found out what they needed to know... at least most of it just by asking around. I am sure they weren't too happy to find out that their ships had been taken by the King himself! :) And to be afraid of Frodo... though I suspect you would be if you found out that he had destroyed Sauron's Ring and didn't know any of the other details. I love how Aragorn left them cooling their heels and gave them such 'freedom' to wander the 6th circle. :) They'll be in a wonderful mood by the time he is ready to speak with them - not that he will be greatly concerned about that!
Author's reply
Yes, you have it there in a nice summation, Radbooks. Here we have five from Umbar who are just beginning to understand that the new situation in Gondor may not be as much to their advantage as has been true the last few years.
And Aragorn is going to have an eye kept on them indeed. Meanwhile they are pretty much stuck, once they test the watch kept on them. Naturally they'll try that, you know.
And I love to think of them confused as to what to make of the King's companions.
Radbooks
· 10 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
Sad and moving chapter... poor, poor Frodo and the things he had to deal with. I'm glad that you write about the affects of the ring on Frodo. I was on a message board and someone was making comments about how he had 'failed' in his duty because he had put the Ring on at the end and claimed it. She seemed to totally ignore the fact of what the Ring had been doing to him for months (and years!) before that. (She had some other issues too, but I won't go into that! :) I just couldn't see how she could discount the power of the Ring and so I appreciate seeing some reality here. Anyway, enough of that.
It was interesting how Gandalf had seen Frodo use his light to defend himself against the effects of the Ring at different times and that was one of the reasons that he had started searching for answers to what the Ring was.
What is going on with the healing energy that Aragorn and the elves pour into him? Is Frodo able to direct it in some way to where he really needs it? Like his heart in this chapter? Like he was able to tap into the Elessar? Maybe you will answer that down the road, but I was curious.
And the nightmares... sigh. So horrible for them. Those are never fun to deal with.
Author's reply
I keep hearing how Frodo "failed" myself, and get so frustrated. Those who see Frodo as failing are missing the point of the thing, I think. Of course he "failed"--as would anyone in the same situation. No one else could have carried it that far!
Gandalf was reportedly suspicious of the Ring from the beginning, but became moreso after seeing Its effects on Bilbo at the Party, at which time he had Aragorn double the guard on the Shire, and they made their first attempts to find Gollum. Then, after four years of visiting with Frodo off and on, suddenly he disappeared for thirteen more, leaving Frodo concerned and I would think feeling cut off from the outer world. I wanted to explore what could have caused that break in Gandalf's "routine." Seeing Frodo's nightmare and how he used his own Light to protect others seemed logical.
As for the diversion of the healing, I suspect Eru himself is taking a hand in making certain that what needs strengthening at the moment is strengthened. Aragorn and the Elves are mostly responding to symptoms; yet the most obvious symptoms are perhaps not reflecting where the most serious damage was done.
And, as Aragorn pointed out--no normal mortal could have gone through what this fellowship, and particularly what Frodo and Sam, have gone through without having nightmares.
Thanks so much for your responses to this chapter.
Linda Hoyland
· 10 November 2005
· Chapter 24: 24: Seeking Intelligence
I'd never before thought events must look from the other side and like this fresh interpretation.It must indeed seem like some sort of magic !
Author's reply
So glad you approve, Linda. Yes, understanding what has happened and how it has come to be would be very confusing to those from Umbar, and of course they'd think in terms of spells and such.
Thanks for the response.
French Pony
· 10 November 2005
· Chapter 24: 24: Seeking Intelligence
Uh-oh. Wasnior is figuring out exactly how he lost the war. And so soon afterwards, when things with the King are still not yet certain. This does not bode well.
Author's reply
Yet, for whom it bodes worse is also not yet certain. After all, Aragorn has a great deal more personal knowledge of affairs in Umbar than Wasnior has of affairs in Gondor.
Thanks so much for the feedback.
Dorath grunted, “And the Perian with the dark hair is apparently a magician of some great power, for he led the other who sat by the King into Mordor itself, hiding the both of them, to come to the Mountain of Orodruin and cast into it the Dread Lord’s Ring.”
“He has not about him the look of any great magic,” commented Angrapain, dismissively.
“Then how could he have brought the two of them into the Black Land, much less through it?” demanded Dorath. “Only great power could have brought them to Mount Doom unseen. Or did he draw on the power of the Ring Itself to get them there?”
“Nonsense,” Wasnior said, shaking his head. “Had he used the power of the Ring, would he have been able to let it go to throw it into the Fire?”
The five of them looked from one to the other with uncertainty and discomfort. The idea of having sufficient power within oneself to withstand the desire to use the power inherent in Sauron’s Ring was a new one, and all were uncertain they’d wish to meet with the Ringbearer alone.
*snork* I love it. Think of it, these powerful Men, afraid of a hobbit.
Of course, they'd have good reason to be, but not quite for the reasons they *think*. Powerful magician? *giggle*
Author's reply
Well, what else are those who are totally unaccustomed to Hobbits going to think in such a situation, do you think?
So glad it gave you a giggle or two.
grumpy
· 10 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
Poor Sam, this time it was him having the nightmare and Frodo at his side when he woke up.
Glad that Frodo is going to hang up his wind chimes, nice music. And that he plans on rebuilding his ability to do things, like taking long walks. I imagine the city is a good place to start.
Author's reply
They are all going to have nightmares; and yes, the wind chimes do get hung up.
And Frodo is going to work on rebuilding his stamina, and will learn such things take time. But he's definitely in the place to practice on hills, isn't he? Heh!
Bodkin
· 10 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
I like Frodo's determination to recover some aspects of his life from the ruin. But the Ring has been tormenting him for so long. The company of Gandalf is very good for him - his strength and understanding are needed.
Poor Aragorn, though. Stuck in the Citadel being kingly while the rest of the Fellowship get to be together to offer each other support. And it's a couple of months before Arwen arrives to relieve his worries and share his burden.
Author's reply
I like to think that here, too, Frodo is able to accept that healing must be worked for just as protecting the Shire and his people had to be worked for; and that Frodo would look at the one to know and ask, "What must I do?" Yes, the Ring tormented him for a long time; but he will continue fighting it as he can.
As for Aragorn--for a time at least even getting away he must do so in a "kingly" manner as often as not. He'll do his best to slip off to the house of his companions when he can, or have them join him; but he has lost their close companionship as he takes up his duties--which was why I enjoyed adding in my own addition to the Dwarf language to give him a chance just to be a guy among guys for a time.
Linda Hoyland
· 9 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
It is so sad to see how much Frodo lost and I also like the way you show that Sam suffers too as he is often overlooked in fanfic.
The scene in the tower is the most horrifying in the book and haunted me when I first read it,so no wonder it haunts Sam.The film toned it down too much.
Author's reply
That all four Hobbits would have had nightmares based on their experiences and that they would all at times have flashback events seemed logical to me. All four faced Sauron's evil directly--Sam and Frodo facing the Ring and going through his land and experiencing his creatures personally, Frodo further through the Morgul wound and having carried the Ring awakened for so long and being taken by it in the end and then losing it as he did; Merry through facing the Nazgul; Pippin by looking into the Palantir and facing the army at the Black Gate. And Frodo needs to accept that he is not the only one who has faced and survived such evil.
And I agree--the fear of not finding his master must have been one of Sam's greatest nightmares, along with the fear he was dead by Shelob's poison.
harrowcat
· 9 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
Rarely do I see such things made clear in defiance save by the greatest of Elves--
When I read this my mind went back to what Frodo saw of Glorfindel's light at the ford.
I read this almost as soon as you had posted it but I was at work and shouldn't have been reading but you sparked me into pondering on the nature of envy. I think there are two sorts: One is destructive for everyone as the envious one seeks to spoil the thing they are envious of. (If I can't have it then nobody is going to enjoy it). I see this as the sort of envy he felt at seeing Sam and Rosie together when he still had the ring. His personal strength was enough to keep thought from turning to action. I think Frodo is now suffering from the other type. He is not jealous of Sam's good fortune in healing more quickly. In no way would he wish it different for him unless it were be even better BUT that doesn't stop him wishing it for himself too and feeling saddened by it. I am not sure I am making much sense here so I had better stop blathering on.
I had intended to come home after my meeting and spend time savouring and re-reading this and then posting a nice long review but, instead, I have spent all evening searching the streets for one of the members of our church who had gone missing after visiting her husband in the hospital this afternoon. She is getting very confused and got off at the wrong bus stop. She has been found, very cold but safe. It is now 1.30am and I do still have to be at work tomorrow morning so I had better sign off and go to bed!
Author's reply
I, too, thought of Glorfindel at the Ford and Frodo's vision of him there. Frodo, too, has a Light of Being discernible to others under the right conditions, and I think he'd have unconsciously learned to use it in defense against the searching of the Eye.
Lovely thoughts about the different types of envy, the destructive sort versus the one that simply grieves for what is not there. And you are NOT blathering.
Sad to hear about how you had to spend your evening. I have to keep reminding one client that she hasn't sufficient cash to buy everything she sees first, which is also a hard thing to do. Having to eternally budget gets so blasted frustrating. Glad she is safe and home again.
We once had a small lady who'd come to the States from Japan who suffered from Alzheimers walk into the house and sit down in my husband's chair and start enjoying the contents of the cashew jar. She was dressed in beautiful silk pajamas, a lovely pegnoir over the pajamas, a terrycloth robe over that, then a heavy coat she apparently picked up as she left the house, and scuff slippers only on her feet--in the rains of January. It was disconcerting, and took us some time to get from her the name of her family so we could return her. Her English wasn't very good, we found.
Andrea
· 9 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
Seems I've missed the previous update, so here's a review for both chapters:
It was fascinating to see so well-known characters, especially the hobbits, through the eyes of a stranger. The man of Umbar realises, there's something special about Frodo, but he does not know excatly what it is.
It's good to see Frodo dancing with Eowyn. As long as he was able to dance, he forgot about his sorrows and his illness, but the pain returned far too soon!
The conversation with Gandalf was very insightful.
"But with you shielding him as you did while you held It, how could It be ready for the defense he was able to give It when he took It from you when he thought you dead?"
I think the Ring focused all his attention on Frodo for years and years, so that It knew him very well and could make out a sore spot in an instant. It is possible, that Frodo drew the Ring's attention to himself, thus shielding his friends.
And when Sam put on the Ring, It was simply not able to "adjust" from Frodo to Sam in such a short time. Someone, who knew Sam would not have tried to promise him the leadership of a country. It was worth a try, but it had no effect on Sam.
It's frightening to imagine how much the Ring could influence Frodo's feelings. And it's nearly unbelievable, how long he was able to resist!
If he only would get rid of that feeling of guilt!
Author's reply
I think you have very clearly identified many of the reasons why the Ring was unable to affect Sam negatively in the short time he held It--It was too much asleep most of the time Bilbo held it, once Dol Guldur was emptied by the White Council's efforts, to do a great deal to Bilbo; but particularly once Sauron began actively gathering his forces and calling for It to come to him so as to completely destroy his enemies It would increasingly seek to corrupt Its bearer or to induce him to take It south and east toward Mordor.
Hobbits aren't very apt victims for the Ring anyway; but once the coming of the Nazgul had awakened It completely, It would undoubtedly have investigated Its bearer thoroughly--by which time Frodo already had excellent buffers in place to protect his own folk from Its influence.
But to promise Sam victory over Sauron and a garden by magic was indeed a misstep--It had no understanding that for a true gardener, the labor is as rewarding as the flowers that bloom.
Getting rid of the feelings of guilt is not easy, believe me--I speak from long experience.
Kitty
· 9 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
That was a bit sad. Frodo needs to talk about the ring and to realize what it did to him, but it is sad nonetheless, knowing how difficult and depressing it was for him. I was glad Elrohir could ease Frodo’s pain and it's always someone there to help all the hobbits.
It was interesting to know how the ring worked even before Frodo left the Shire. No wonder Gandalf had his suspicions about the ring when he witnessed this!
Author's reply
Gandalf had wondered all along; had become alarmed to see Bilbo calling It his Precious; had been reassured by Saruman, and is now beginning to wonder about Saruman's motivations, although he still mainly trusts him.
I think Aragorn would want someone there able to help Frodo and Sam and the others as necessary at this time, and think that Elladan and Elrohir would agree for the few days they lingered in Gondor before they rode north to meet Arwen's wedding party.
And the growing frustration as he continues to learn how long and deeply the Ring has been seeking to destroy him and his relationships must have been extraordinarily painful for Frodo to face.
Kitty
· 9 November 2005
· Chapter 22: 22: Guests at the Feast
Very interesting to see the coronation feast and its attendants through the eyes of Lord Wasnior, who knows very little about all what had happened in the last weeks! I suppose he will be a bit disconcerted to discover the one he thinks to be Cúrunir is Mithrandir and the supposed Theodred is Éomer. And all of this on top of elves, dwarves and hobbits! It is surely not what Wasnior had expected for his mission.
He seems to have very odd companions, considering his opinion of their table manners. I wonder why he brought them there in the first place, but of course he couldn’t know they would end up at a feast so short after their arrival. Angrapain somehow sounds as a brother to Landrion. I truly wonder if this visit will be uneventful. *looks suspicious at the Umbarians*
About Frodo’s dance with Éowyn I had mixed feelings. On the one hand it was so good to see him happy and dance again, and with the Lady of Rohan besides, but on the other hand it was sad he wasn’t able to last through the whole dance. Poor Frodo, it must have been very frustrating.
Author's reply
I doubt Wasnior himself chose these himself. Which were chosen by other lords and which pushed themselves into the embassy for their own purposes is yet unclear; certainly Landrion pushed himself into the first embassy while Ruvemir was ill.
No one is fully clear as to the results of the battles, I think, except the victorious parties. The Umbarians are trying to learn what has happened, for at the end Sauron was too intent on the approach of the army to his gates to share news with the sponsors of his armies of Men. Now they will learn; but it seemed logical they would be completely out of their reckoning as to who the key players are now, for it's unlikely they have had clear intelligence for some weeks.
Angrapain might not be a brother to Landrion, but it does sound as if he shares affinities with Varondil, doesn't it? And those may lead him into trouble in the future.
And Frodo is realizing his stamina has been more deeply affected than he'd expected, I think. Yes, a joy to see him in a moment of sheer pleasure; a grief to see him flag.
French Pony
· 9 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
Here one begins to see how it is that Frodo's quest has left him permanently wounded. With diligent physical therapy, he might be able, in time to resume some of the activities of his normal life. And it appears that the Ring has been robbing him of normality for longer than that. Given all of this physical and psychological loss, it's no wonder that he eventually decided to go West.
Author's reply
I agree, French Pony. He's been through so very much for longer than he realizes, and also realized before he even left the Shire that he was losing it as well, perhaps already had lost a good deal of his connection to it as he had been denied the right to dance publicly and as his awareness of women was suppressed, whether by himself or the Ring.
In the end the decision to go to Tol Eressea must have seemed the only logical choice left, particularly as his condition began to actively decline with the anniversary attacks.
shirebound
· 9 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
one he loves as dearly as father, brother, and child all in one person
I just love that description of Sam's regard for Frodo.
Author's reply
And I think this was much how Frodo WAS seen by Sam. The wise one who provides and instructs; the brother whom one has shared so much with; the dependancy of the one cared for so deeply. Am so very glad this description moved you so.
Dreamflower
· 9 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
This is fascinating stuff! I had often thought Frodo must have built a barrier of sorts to keep the Ring from whispering to Sam and his cousins, but I had not really thought of it beginning until he left the Shire. I had often thought the Ring did work on Frodo as you suggest--trying to close him off from a normal life--but it had not occurred to me that It might be awake enough to work on others before Frodo knew what It was.
It's a shame that Elrohir's advice was fruitless.
Although I tend to feel that Frodo did not begin to deteriorate physically until after his first anniversary of Weathertop, you certainly make a good case for it to be otherwise--and I never get the feeling in your descriptions of Frodo's physical suffering that you are gloating over it, that I sometimes get from a few other writers who write Frodo h/c. I feel that you are truly distressed *with* Frodo, if that makes sense?
And for Sam to have the nightmare--yes, that's only right. His suffering is often neglected, but I do think his worst nightmares would have been Shelob and Cirith Ungol.
A very good chapter. Did you write a story with the visit of Gandalf that you describe here?
Author's reply
Elrohir's advice isn't fruitless, but his warning that Frodo is not likely to fully recover is true. Plus as yet they have no idea how the anniversaries of the worst woundings will strike Frodo, starting in a few months as they start to cross the Bruinen toward the Shire once more.
I think the Ring would have affected any who lived in close proximity to It, particularly those who were emotionally close to Its bearer, and especially as Its Master's call became more obvious. The Eye was seeking It, and seeking any who might carry It. If It could draw the Eye's attention to those around the Bearer, hopefully It could better effect its own recovery; but Frodo would have been aware and sought to protect even then. Perhaps this was why he resisted earlier attempts to convince him to take Will's place as Mayor--the subconscious realization that something sought him and any under what he saw as his protection.
No, I don't glory in Frodo's illness--but having seen up close and personal just how degenerative conditions gradually rob people of their feelings of competence, their positive view of self, their physical and emotional integrity, and so on, and how the temptation to embrace despair hits at odd moments, even before it is certain that the individual is in decline--I had to be true to that reality, which is NOT a pleasant one, believe me.
They will all have nightmares, and Frodo, of course, will come to know those experienced by the other three Hobbits almost as well as his own in the coming months before they return to the Shire. He is in a good position now to learn particularly how the quest has struck those, while he'll have little chance to see the effects of Aragorn's, particularly as he draws physically away to try to protect him from his own problems.
No, I've not detailed that nightmare before; but I've hinted at it that Gandalf was present in Bag End when Frodo suffered one of his and that this was just before he disappeared completely for years.
And I agree Cirith Ungol, both the tower and the caverns, as well as fighting Shelob and the desire to fight orcs would be the most common images in Sam's dream. But I'd long ago indicated that the search for Frodo in the Tower of Cirith Ungol and the fear of his Master being lashed was a most common theme.