The Acceptable Sacrifice by Larner
Armariel · 16 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
Oh...........beautiful. Better than the last chapter, even. You see, Iorhael, how just the willingness to spend yourself for others was itself a sufficient sacrifice at the time? Indeed! ~~~{~@
Author's reply
Yes--if only, however, he could believe this as much in his heart as in his mind--if he truly believes it at all.
Armariel · 16 December 2005 · Chapter 45: 45: A New Birth
Oooo--held my breath at the thought of Frodo carrying a basin of boiling water upstairs....lol Glad the baby is all right though! Was really afraid she was going to lose it....that's ok, just keep me guessing! ~~~{~@
Author's reply
You don't think Frodo could carry a basin of hot water upstairs? I suspect he had regained a good deal of strength by then, although he'd have his bad days. Am glad you are happy the baby survived. And it's fun to keep folks guessing!
Armariel · 16 December 2005 · Chapter 44: 44: Glory out of Ashes
Wonderful, lovely, enchanting descriptions here. Just try setting ME loose in that glass shop! I'd buy up everything in sight. Well, I'd want to! I'm terrible that way, when I'm traveling in a foreign place and I'm caught inside a wonderful shop full of THINGS...I remember when I was in Germany, we visited the Meissen porcelain factory and it was full of the most wonderful stuff, but I didn't buy a THING (other than a book) because it was all outrageously priced! But if it hadn't been! I love THINGS...I've been redecorating my home recently and I'm still buying THINGS for it.... Well, I'm babbling now...Love this chapter! Heheh, I think I distinctly remember that bowl from another story....The idea of beautiful THINGS coming out of the ash...does the image of the phoenix ever come to mind?
Author's reply
I've loved fine glass for years, and when we had an antique store we specialized in it. Let me see some fine etched glass or cut cased glass, and I drool, although my favorite is pressed and cut glass. So glad you feel toward Celebrion's shop much as I do.
Radbooks · 16 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
I'm enjoying these stories that Ruvemir only heard about before... to see them as they happened and how Frodo and Aragorn experienced them. And of course to better understand what the man was feeling and why he was acting the way he was. Always so much tragedy in any war and to stand there and have your father killed next to you would be among the worst I would think. Bad enough to have a friend killed, but a father or a brother or other relative would be truly horrible. You often hear about survivors guilt and I'm sure it's especially bad when the one that is left alive has no experience with fighting, etc. I really liked how Aragorn talked to Kendrion about those feelings of guilt and related it to Frodo, who, as we know, is suffering from that quite strongly. I also really enjoyed Aragorn's talk with Almaros about the same thing and how Aragorn had to learn to honor those that sacrificed themselves for him instead of feeling that guilt. I hadn't considered that before. Nicely done.
Author's reply
I've talked to a few who have suffered this condition, and have read many Holocaust survivor stories of the same thing. It's terribly pernicious and debilitating. And those who have lost others close to them often feel horrible beyond telling. To me it seemed only logical that, as a young man particularly, Aragorn would have known such feelings at times. It could not have been easy, watching others go out when he was held back. But he would have had to come to terms with such a situation; and it seemed only logical that he should here counsel both Almaros and Frodo.
Andrea · 16 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
Survivors guilt - I've never heard that term before, but it's very fitting! It's a large part of Frodo's feeling of guilt. More than once in your story he wished he had died right there at the Cracks of Doom. I think there is no-one else in Minas Tirith who understands Almaros better than Frodo. And Frodo *felt* that his help was needed. Dreamflower is right, it's a sad paradox that Frodo is able to help those people who suffer from the same diseases as he does, but cannot apply this help to himself. However, I think Almaros helped him a great deal! He showed Frodo that he's not alone with such feelings and that what he did was noticed, appreciated and supported by the men of Minas Tirith. "You see, Iorhael, how just the willingness to spend yourself for others was itself a sufficient sacrifice at the time?" Even a stubborn Baggins cannot argue against such a statement! "The voice in his heart" you say? When that voice has reached his heart, I'll take it as a good sign!
Author's reply
It's starting to sink in, of course--the voice which has been arguing with him since he awoke. But he's still fighting it. It's an uphill battle. Survivor's guilt is often a part of PTSD, particularly when the individual has watched others die around him or her and can't find a logical reason why he or she has been spared. It can be pernicious. And the more gentle and imaginative the individual was ahead of time, the more strongly PTSD and survivor's guilt tend to set in.
Baggins Babe · 16 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
I have longed to see this incident more fully described, since you first mentioned it in 'The King's Commission' and I certainly wasn't disappointed. PTSD and Survivor Guilt must have existed hundreds of years ago, and I've often wondered how many residents of Gondor and Rohan were left mentally scarred as a result of those battles. Sometimes, facing death is not the worst thing - surviving while friends and comrades fall must be very difficult to come to terms with. My father fought in WWII and although he often spoke of the amusing incidents - with a great deal of gallows humour and Gimli-type jokes - I always knew there was much he could not speak of. Good to see Frodo taking charge and offering help and comfort to one troubled soul - and in return hopefully receiving some for his own. Beautifully described - and how moving to realise that even Aragorn himself was not immune from guilt over those who died to keep him safe.
Author's reply
I think most sensitive, intelligent, and imaginative individuals would be prone to survivor's guilt, and certainly Aragorn fits the bill. But he would have had to learn early to deal with it, to look at the deaths of others positively instead of allowing them to drag him down. I'm glad some have wished to see this fleshed out since "The King's Commission." It was one which definitely had a great deal of relevancy to this story; and Almaros becomes the symbol of all those who came home uncertain how they lived when so much evil broke out around them and they saw those they'd come to care for die. It would be terrifically difficult, I think, to live through such a situation.
Linda Hoyland · 15 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
A very touching chapter.One wonders just how many were left with Post Traumatic Stress syndrome and Survivor's Guilt Complex. I always imagine Aragorn's touch as very warming too. Frodo is the one who can truly understand here.
Author's reply
I suspect there were many who took part in this war who ended up suffering from these conditions and related one; Almaros and Frodo are two who stand for all the rest. It must have been terrifically difficult for all, especially those who volunteered at the last moment who had no experience and could not imagine what it would be like to stand against Sauron's army of horrors.
Queen Galadriel · 15 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
I think this is my favourite chapter so far. I love the idea of Frodo helping this poor man. I've often thought that some of those who consider themselves wise might do well to learn from so-called simple hobbits. And what a wonderful way to end this chapter! God bless, Galadriel
Author's reply
Frodo could help others, but was often trapped in his own guilt and pain, which in the end took him from Middle Earth long before his natural time. It must have been very, very difficult for him at times. But, yes, the Hobbits were all part of the healing of Middle Earth.
Kitty · 15 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
Somehow I can understand why Almaros is not able to cope with his experiences. Even for trained warriors who are used to this the battles at the Pelennor and before the Black Gate must have been terrible, and for someone who is not at all used to death and destruction, to maimed bodies and all that must be an absolute nightmare! And then to be felled without the opportunity to do something for his City and Goldor, the feeling to be useless ... quite a difficult mixture. The more so as his immediate family doesn’t understand what he has gone through. I am truly glad Frodo was able to get through to him, to make him see sense in it. It was amazing to see he responded to Frodo’s command after it took so many strong men to bring him there in the first place! Aragorn’s understanding helped him, too, I’d say. And it was good in the end Frodo had to admit to himself he had done something positive, even if he didn’t see it until now.
Author's reply
This chapter has obviously touched many who've read it. I met several individuals after Vietnam who suffered PTSD and survivor's guilt, and it was a pernicious combination. And to not have been able to do anything while they knew others were dying around them they reported as the worst of it, the two who would actually talk about it. I've seen similar feelings described in the literature about Holocaust survivors, which I have researched a good deal. But it would take someone like Frodo to open the door, and Aragorn to let the light truly shine in. And I see Frodo as having a good deal of personal authority which he might not have used often, but used to good effect when it was needed.
Bodkin · 15 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
There would have been a lot of people around with post-traumatic shock. Almaros was lucky that he was taken to those who not only understood, but could do something to ease his mind. But then the whole letting warriors go off to Cair Andros was very sophisticated and understanding. Not like killing some of your own troops to encourage the rest to fear you more than the enemy.
Author's reply
Aragorn was indeed a wise leader, not expecting men to go beyond their capabilities. He refused to become his enemy by forcing them through fear, intimidation, or trickery; and he gave them some means of still serving in a positive manner. I wish all our generals were like him.
Armariel · 14 December 2005 · Chapter 43: 43: The King's Hope
Welllll, I got a little behind....ok, ok, I've got a BIG behind...heheh.....but I think I finally got some of the bugs worked out of my puter and can start catching up, if my cat will just leave me alone long enough now, pesky little beast! Phew, Aragorn was MUCH too merciful--I'd have had the man drawn and quartered! Frodo's drawing sounds wonderful. Art is so therapeutic, yes? As artist, writer, poet and composer, I know this well! Well, now I gotta take a break and go make a fruit salad for the party tomorrow....later! ~~~{~@
Author's reply
Perhaps he was too merciful, but I doubt he'd order the execution of someone for whom redemption is still possible. And I know what you mean about art being therapeutic, for I, too, have been artist and writer. Have set a few poems (most of those in LOTR) to music, but am no true composer--know enough about music and dance to appreciate what others do so MUCH better than I do. Thanks so much for letting me know you are still around--been quiet since your computer started giving you fits.
Raksha The Demon · 14 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
An excellent chapter - Almaros' PTSD and survivor guilt is convincingly written. I hadn't thought of Aragorn as knowing survivor guilt; but there are times, particularly when he was young, when he would have been shielded and men would have died while he was kept safe, since he was the last hope of Isildur's line and the Northern Dunedain. And Frodo's interaction with Almaros is well done too; Almaros desperately needed to meet the Ringbearer who had given him hope while he walked into what was, for Almaros, the valley of the shadow of death. There was a nice intertwining of the three stories and their sorrows, of Almaros, Frodo and Aragorn. There were probably several hundred others among the forces of Rohan and Gondor who felt the same horror and sorrow after the victory over Sauron (I personally wonder at the thoughts of those who survived Faramir's mission to the outwalls and that terrible retreat across the Pelennor against overwhelming odds), but obviously you can't tell all of their stories.
Author's reply
I see Almaros as representative of all who came out of the War of the Rings suffering from PTSD and survival guilt, and suspect the number was actually pretty large, although in time most would work through it much as Tolkien himself did. And that you realize that Aragorn himself probably suffered from similar feelings early in his career makes me more sure I did properly in writing this chapter. Thanks for the comments.
French Pony · 14 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
This is another one of those chapters that you do so wonderfully well. It doesn't advance the plot, but you introduce this new character and his situation so well and so absorbingly that it doesn't matter. Reading this story, I almost feel like I'm getting the guided tour of postWar Minas Tirith, really getting in there to watch the city rebuild.
Author's reply
Almaros is representative of all those who suffered from varying levels of PTSD and survivor guilt after the war was over, and serves as a means for Frodo to expernalize his own guilt somewhat. It helps in the long run for Frodo in accepting his own healing, although immediately it has little obvious effect. But to realize that he is not alone in the feelings he has is necessary. This is another smaller story described to Ruvemir in "The King's Commission," and I was trying to figure out precisely where in the timeline of the post-quest it might fit, and found it fit here. That you find this both believable and desirable in spite of not advancing the plot noticeably is flattering. Thank you.
Baggins Babe · 14 December 2005 · Chapter 46: 46: Bathing in Strawberries and Cream
I intended to review this when you first posted it but I was sidetracked by the seasonal demands. :-)) The conversation between Faramir and Frodo was lovely - mutual trust between them, and such a shame they were interrupted. Oh Pip! Filling the bath with fruit - how typical of our beloved Took, and how wonderful that it made Frodo laugh. Nice to see the King and Hardorn both involved in sorting and bottling fruit. Sweet that some of the jars were taken to the new mother too. With hobbits around there is always good food to eat!
Author's reply
Yes, there is mutual trust between Hobbit and Steward, and I think they each would have deeply honored the other. As for the fruit--had to expand on some of the scenes I wrote in "The Ties of Family," after all. And of course much of the bounty is going to be shared around with those the Hobbits have come to know. I bet it tickled Aragorn to get Hardorn to hang up his bow and be useful for once! Heh!
harrowcat · 14 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
Frodo could think of no argument to counter the voice that spoke in his heart. He has no argument but does he believe it yet! In one of my most 'down' times of my life I had constant arguments with this same voice. But to me the voice was ringing in my head. I believed it too but I just couldn't get the belief to move from my head to my heart or emotional self. I suppose what I am trying to say is thanks for putting the voice in. And thanks, too, for fleshing out yet another character this chapter is great. Now, I'm off to huddle under the covers with a hot-water bottle. I've managed to catch a cold off a dear friend and I am feeling decidedly icky! The sugar levels are suffering too. Could you send one of the healers over please? Either Aragorn or Frodo will do. But if they are busy, (looking for saplings or something,) then I could manage with an elven twin or two or even Eldamir if he isn't too busy with a new baby at home. Just don't send Ioreth! My head is aching already.
Author's reply
You poor thing. You have my great niece giggling about sending over any handy healer. She's four, and already is developing quite the sense of humor. Take care, and take your vitamin C. That you, too, have had such experiences in arguing with the voice of reason that seeks to lead you to spiritual health indicates that what I've written for Frodo is realistic. At times I, too, have found the arguments going on. That you recognize that the heart can accept the truth so much more reluctantly than the rational mind is certainly in line with my own experience, although it sounds as if you have more intimate experience than I do with the process.
Dreamflower · 14 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
A very good account of PTSD, and how it can eat away at a person. I like the way Frodo asserted his authority without any hesitation at all, and the way in which he was listened to. This is the Frodo I like to see--in spite of his pain, and his own tortured spirit--strong and wise for the sake of others. On the one hand, it was his own suffering from this self-same thing, this feeling of failure and guilt that enabled him to understand and help; yet on the other, he could not seem to be able to apply this to himself. Yet anytime it concerns the well-being of others, he will assert his strength. Such a sad paradox.
Author's reply
Yes, I suspect that in Frodo it was indeed a matter of being better able to deal with others than with himself. It was indeed a very sad paradox, but a part of his nature as well as a sign of how very deeply the Ring had left him damaged. So glad you appreciate it, Dreamflower.
shirebound · 14 December 2005 · Chapter 47: 47: Horror Relieved
the house for troubled spirits What a gentle, accurate term. I love that. "For one who had never thought to serve as a warrior to choose to seek to protect others, and to make it to stand before the gates to Mordor in the end, that showed far greater courage than you can yet appreciate. Even if you never struck a blow against the enemy at all, you yet showed far greater courage and self-mastery than many who had trained in the armies for years who could not bring themselves to stand against their greatest fears." Beautiful. Being present at this man's healing (and being part of it) definitely was of assistance to Frodo's own spirit.
Author's reply
I couldn't think of a better description of it and stay true to Tolkien's own vision of Middle Earth. Psychiatry wasn't invented yet; and certainly the brain science of today as we begin to appreciate the intricacies of perception, feeling, and the subtle chemistry of emotional disorders wasn't known. Yet I think they'd have had some kind of special treatment for those who showed signs of emotional problems and what today would be recognized as psychiatric disorders, probably involving a great deal of kindness and gentle treatment. Whether or not Frodo will apply what he sees in Almaros's healing to himself, of course, is another matter altogether.
grumpy · 13 December 2005 · Chapter 46: 46: Bathing in Strawberries and Cream
Ymmmy, strawberry jam. What a god idea of Pippen to fill the bathtub with fruit, Frodo got a good laugh. Gimli was right to get out while he could. Imagine trying to get jam out of his bread. Poor Hardon, escaped from Aragorn's gardening, and now making jam, like a good ranger he is.
Author's reply
Yes, Pippin's been able to get a good laugh out of his cousin as well as his King, and has managed to even rope in Hardorn. I bet Hardorn wonders to this day how it happened, too! Thanks for the feedback.
Linda Hoyland · 12 December 2005 · Chapter 46: 46: Bathing in Strawberries and Cream
Just like Pippin to fill the bath with fruit ! I just love cherries ! I was amused at the image of Haldorn bottling fruit.It was thought of Aragorn to vist the mother and child.I also enjoyed the scene with Faramir and Frodo.
Author's reply
Yes, Faramir and Frodo make a warm pair to imagine talking together. And Pippin is beginning to come up with more positive practical jokes now, jokes that evoke laughter but have a postitive outcomes that delight and surprise. And of course Linduriel would be one of the first recipients of the bounty from the bathtub full of cherries and strawberries! So glad it delighted so many.
Grumpy · 12 December 2005 · Chapter 45: 45: A New Birth
Hmmm, never thought of Aragorn using the stone to see if anybody is coming. I guess his mood would be better if he did get a look. Just imagine the poor doctor/father who could not save his own family, I am so glad that the mother and baby survived.
Author's reply
I bet between the two of them, Galadriel and Elrond had the riding from the North well shielded. Aragorn MIGHT have looked for them, but doubt he'd have seen anything. And am also glad that Aragorn was there to do what only the King himself could do for mother and child. Thanks for the feedback.
Radbooks · 12 December 2005 · Chapter 46: 46: Bathing in Strawberries and Cream
Strawberries and cream! It's supposed to be good for the skin I think. :) Ah, Pippin and the joy he brings to others - most of the time. I loved that Hardorn had to go and help... and Aragorn's comment to leave off the 'pretence' of guarding him. Faramir's comment to Frodo about Aragorn was insightful, but then Faramir always could see into the hearts of others. I've always assumed that Elrond felt so close to Aragorn because he had him in his home from such a young age whereas the others that he fostered were quite a bit older and, I think, had their fathers alive back at home - except possible Valandil and even he would have been older. But helping to raise a child from 2 years of age, especially one that would naturally see you as a father would tend to make you closer to that child.
Author's reply
You're the only one to comment on the use of "pretence." But at times it must have seemed that way. Bet Aragorn enjoyed seeing Hardorn doing something with his hands other than sharpening blades and polishing his bow. Heh! Milk baths HAVE been popular for thousands of years, and fruit has been found to aid skin and hair (wish I could find a new lemon shampoo, as I love how it makes my hair feel clean and smooth--but they went out of style years ago; melon essences don't do anything like the lemon or lime ones did). Yes, the fact Aragorn came to Imladris so young and without an openly remembered father would have increased the bond between Elrond and Aragorn immensely; but I suspect that there would also have been the awareness this one was closest in nature to Elros and possibly Earendil that would have worked to Aragorn's benefit. This child would be in many ways Elrond's tribute to brother and father, I think, more than those who went before, renewing all that Elros had given up his promise for immortality to know.
Andrea · 12 December 2005 · Chapter 46: 46: Bathing in Strawberries and Cream
I loved the conversation between Frodo and Faramir! Interactions between those two after the coronation are rarely found. Maybe, because Faramir is considered as far too busy as Lord Steward. It's obvious that the two of them trust each other, so that it is no problem to be honest. I think there are few people, who Faramir would have told about Eowyn's feelings for Aragorn, and even fewer, who Frodo would have told about his first love and what the ring took away from him, only his best friends. Well, Arargon's appearance put a sudden end to this conversation. I wished there were more to come! The bath tub filled with strawberries and cherries was great! Pippin always succeeds in cheering Frodo up. That Took is remarkable :)
Author's reply
After Henneth Annun I suspect that Frodo and Faramir would have held a great deal of mutual liking and respect. And I agree--Faramir would be one of the few with whom he'd easily speak of this matter, much less Faramir acknowledging Eowyn's former fascination with Aragorn. There may be more such conversations to come, but that will show in time. And so glad you appreciated the tub full of fruit--it was a wonderful idea, and Pippin undoubtedly got a good deal out of enjoyment planning and executing the joke, as much perhaps as seeing the laughter it evoked. You are right--Pippin is remarkable!
Kitty · 12 December 2005 · Chapter 46: 46: Bathing in Strawberries and Cream
Ah yes, the strawberry bath! *smiles* I’d have loved to see Frodo’s face when he discovered his ‚prepared’ bath! Truly, your Pippin comes up with so wonderful pranks! That was so much fun! Only a pity Aragorn wasn’t there to witness it, too. He would’ve been pleased to see Frodo laugh so much. But it was fun to have him and Hardorn there to help making jam – and of course it was fun to see Gimli run away! Hm, so Faramir obviously knows why Aragorn is so moody? Well, he is quite perceptive, and he knows how it is to long for his beloved. And I think Frodo was quite trusting with him – he did never talk easily about this matter, didn’t he?
Author's reply
Yes, Pippin's jokes are becoming more inventive as well as positive in result. And certainly Frodo needs a good laugh now and then. Glad you appreciate it. Plus it gave Aragorn a good laugh as well as an afternoon's diversion making preserves and involving Hardorn in it as well. As for Gimli--he's not getting caught in Hobbit business, thank you very much! And I think Frodo and Faramir would appreciate the chance from time to time to speak frankly. They had a good deal in common, and Frodo, I think, would feel safer confiding in him than many others, feeling Faramir would not judge him, merely accept what he had to say. Thanks for the review.
Bodkin · 12 December 2005 · Chapter 46: 46: Bathing in Strawberries and Cream
Very Pippin. And it made Frodo laugh. But what a waste of cherries. And strawberries. Although probably most of them were saved and turned into preserves. And I'm sure Aragorn enjoyed the - rather different demands on his time! Glad the baby and his mother are doing well.
Author's reply
I suspect the vast majority of the fruit was saved. And glad you appreciated that this is the type of practical joke Pippin is now given to--jokes that evoke laughter and appreciation rather than ire, and that lead to a good resolution. And Frodo needs to laugh. As for Aragorn, I think he got a lot of satisfaction out of the memory over the years, particularly of working alongside the Hobbits at a task they excelled at as well as the memory of Hardorn putting down sword and bow to sort fruit and carry out the moldy stuff to the compost pile. Glad you enjoyed it!
Amy · 12 December 2005 · Chapter 46: 46: Bathing in Strawberries and Cream
Fellow-sufferer Faramir is so perceptive!
Author's reply
And after responding to the last comment, to see you used just those words! Heh! Yes, Faramir recognizes the pining in Aragorn, and sees that there is some pain involved in Frodo for what he is NOT experiencing that he had once so strongly desired. So glad you appear to appreciate it.