French Pony
· 16 January 2006
· Chapter 68: 68: Where Among Women...?
I enjoyed the first half of the chapter very much. I love the way Frodo dealt with Marco. His wisdom is really showing, and he seems to be getting his sense of humor back. It's a small but happy blessing that the Ring didn't take that from him permanently. And he will certainly need a sense of humor for the long work of cleaning up the Shire.
It seems a very Hobbity thing to go to the trouble of tracking down and recording each little lost object and then returning it to its rightful owner. And I laughed heartily at the story of the Hobbit-panty raid and the ultimate destination of said panties. Even in times of woe and trouble, human nature manages to come out with some pretty bizarre things.
I have to admit that I skimmed much of the rest of the chapter where Frodo was recounting his adventures to Brendi in the inn. It seemed to be mostly retelling, in abbreviated fashion, of a plotline we're already familiar with.
Author's reply
Marco is having his mind opened to the fact he isn't the center of the universe, and neither is his mother; and that he hasn't the right to do what he pleases with what he pleases. Along the way a bit of the outer world he is only vaguely aware of is being revealed to him, as well as the fact he's nowhere as badly put upon as he thinks.
Glad you got a chuckle out of some of the more bizarre (in Hobbits' eyes) things the Men did, including the panty raids and the sheep (the image of Daisy in Woody Allen's "Everything you Wanted to Know about Sex" sort of pushed itself into my awareness, and I had to find a way of accommodating it into this story).
In Frodo's retelling it's not as much what he tells that's important as what he FAILS to tell. But I agree, this is a part of the story that we are indeed aware of.
Bodkin
· 16 January 2006
· Chapter 68: 68: Where Among Women...?
Marco Smallburrow is an idiot. How can he think, at this point, of attempting to justify his actions and blaming others for treating him badly? The hobbit's a fool. But he did provoke Frodo into revealing something he probably wouldn't have said under any other circumstances. And Brendi coaxed out a few more.
Some of the stories of the Troubles coming out are very strange - and I'll bet the strangest ones are likely to be true! If you are making it up for the compensation, you would want to be sure your story was realistic.
Author's reply
Marco's mind, like Bedro Bracegirdle in "The Ties of Family," is that of the career criminal--totally self-absorbed and certain the entire world revolves around himself. And it did shake loose some details that Frodo would not have told otherwise, and at least one Hobbit besides Marco heard and will remember; eventually adding to the pieces of the puzzle of what Frodo accomplished out there for the rest.
And you are right, the strangest of the stories of what the Big Men did are indeed likely to be the most true. And so hope they gave a chuckle.
shirebound
· 16 January 2006
· Chapter 68: 68: Where Among Women...?
“Why don’t you tell folks?”
“Brendi--that’s true for out there, not here in the Shire.”
“Nonsense, Frodo Baggins. Aren’t Hobbits part of the Free Peoples of Middle Earth?”
“Part of what makes us Hobbits is that we’re not given to having lords and such.”
What a perfect summation of the difference between the Shire and... everywhere else. Let simple folk remain simple, if that's what they wish, and may the Wise labor to keep it so.
Oh, I love that last sentence. Brendi is very, very perceptive, isn't he?
Author's reply
Yes, the simple may indeed do well to remain simple; yet Brendi is also right, for no longer is the Shire so hopelessly isolated from the outer world. Sam and Frodo do deserve to have their stories told and their accomplishments recognized, after all.
And, yes, Brendi is VERY perceptive. He can appreciate that Frodo is totally changed and will not fully find his place there in the Shire.
Dreamflower
· 16 January 2006
· Chapter 68: 68: Where Among Women...?
This chapter is wonderful, from Frodo's stern treatment of Timono--who deserved every bit of it--to his confiding in Brendilac.
Two things appear to enable him to open up--cold anger, as at Timono, where he told him of his imprisonment in Cirith Ungol--something which normally I do not think he would ever speak of. But his fury enabled him to get beyond his usual reticence and tell it like it was to the greedy idiot.
The second thing is trust--he clearly trusts Brendilac to keep his confidence, and so is able to be more open with him, although he still cannot bring himself to speak too much of certain things. For although he mentions "seeing the demon" he does not describe the encounter or name the Balrog, and he also fails to mention Gandalf's fall, which had to still be traumatic, even after knowing Gandalf had returned.
But I was really intrigued by *this* bit:
Although once they saw Pippin they knew precisely what he was and started calling him the Ernil i Pheriannath, which means Prince of the Halflings. He was terribly embarrassed at first, but after we came he’d occasionally try to order us around when we were in public. You know Sam--he’d do about anything any of us asked; but if Pippin would try it with Merry or me we’d just sit on him and tell him to get his princely fingers doing it for himself. One poor woman in the Fifth Circle was most aghast.
Now *that* snippet is just *dying* to be expanded upon. What I wouldn't give to see that anecdote told in *full* with all the details. *hint*hint*
Author's reply
Marco did manage to raise Frodo's ire, and you're right at the anger bringing out the story, although it may also have merely been Frodo trying to get across that, as prisons go, Shire prisons are the height of luxury and consideration. Doubt Marco would have liked the prison in the Citadel of Minas Tirith, much less the gaol in Bree. It's a rude awakening for the fool.
The trust that draws part of the story from Frodo between the deputy Mayor and his cousin Brendi is quite the contrast; and you are right on the details that AREN'T spoken and their import.
As for the tale of the Prince of the Halflings and the woman in the Fifth Circle--heh! Hadn't thought yet of expanding that story, but will consider it now. And it will be all your fault, you know!
Radbooks
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
I love the image of Sam standing there in his Gondorian clothes all embarrassed and yet having to represent his family. They couldn't have picked a better person for the job! :) Plus it gave Merry and Pippin a wonderful opportunity to tease him, if only gently.
Good to see that even though Frodo tried to take the blame for the start of the Troubles happening when he sold Lotho Bag End, everyone else knew that it started well before that. More info about the trip came out the dinner too and at least they started to find ways to get information on who was doing what during that time. Much easier if each family was looking into things than if one person was having to do all the work.
I enjoyed the talk between Sam and Mina though I was surprised he would tell her so much. But it was just the basic facts and not too much details and so those kinds of things aren't too hard to tell to anyone... they aren't emotional.
Author's reply
Yes, the idea of Sam in his Gondorian dress is a pleasant one, and would allow those of the Shire to begin to see him not just as gardener who worked for others, but as one who has known strange experiences in the outer world and is to be respected.
And the practicality of the Shire would help to keep the folk who mattered from blaming Frodo or accepting his own self-blaming for what happened, and in the end will work to his betterment as he heals spiritually. Plus this does make it better to find out the extent of what happened to folk and who were most involved other than the Big Men and Lotho's closest cronies.
Sam is the most likely, I think, to say what had happened, as long (as you pointed out) as it isn't the truly emotional aspects of the quest--other than the most joyful ones associated with Aragorn.
Queen Galadriel
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
"And Uncle Andy
insists I write somethin’ in Elvish by each one’s name, too."
I didn't realise how that compares to the oh-so-familiar "Ooo! Can you write my name in bumps?" (I'm not exagerating :)), but it does! I once knew a little girl who begged me, and then she taped the name tag to her shirt; and when she got home she put it on her fridge! I was shocked and a little embarrassed at the time. :)
Author's reply
Oh, I know. Have had to write so many things in Braille for sighted students who study alongside my blind ones. And I do think that Andy is likely to be more romantically inclined, as Sam was, when it comes to wanting to follow stories of Elves and the like. The idea Sam knew some Elvish undoubtedly tickled him.
Armariel
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 58: 58: The Road North
Sad farewells...was dreading the parting of Aragorn and Frodo especially...and Aragorn and Elrond as well. But I think I'm getting some poetry ideas here! Who knows? We'll soon see, I guess.......
~~~{~@
Author's reply
Oh, am definitely looking forward to your poetry ideas, as it is almost always so very beautiful and moving. And if I offer inspiration for it, Hooray!
Armariel
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 56: 56: To Edoras
Wow, getting tied up, that's some tradition...cute! *g*
So the hobbits are going home...not going to see so much of Aragorn now? *pout* Those figures sound lovely...if you want to get rid of the Aragorn one, heheh......
Btw, here is my most recent completed composition if you'd like to check it out: http://delroz.bravepages.com/music/fairyqueen.mid I'm rather proud of it....:D
Now onto the next chapter............Really nice gap filling here!
~~~{~@
Andrea
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
“I’ll tell your da about a certain stone and well in Moria,” Frodo warned.
“Go ahead. It will only confirm what we all know anyway, that I’m a fool of a Took. He’d be more concerned if I hadn’t dropped it in, you know.”
LOL!!! That was great! What else could be expected from the Took family!
I enjoyed reading the story how Sam became family head! I can see him wearing his Gondorian outfit, feeling embarrassed but also proud.
I like Sam's style of telling the story, straightforward and simple, but also thrilling.
“Thank you for telling me what happened.”
“What I could tell you.”
“Hopefully as it’s enough to help me understand--at least some.”
“Some,” he agreed, and he took his pack and headed for the stables.
Mina is wonderful. In contrast to some other hobbits she really tries to understand what happened. She would like to help Frodo as much as possible, but as Sam pointed out, Frodo would never allow her to do so.
Author's reply
Pippin wouldn't care abou such threats, would he? Glad you appreciate his response.
Sam's natural dignity stands him well in such moments, and it's the first public function at which he is allowed to be seen as more than just a gardener, helping to pave the way for the time he will be Mayor of the Shire.
And, yes, Mina is pretty wonderful, seeking to understand and do, yet accepting Frodo as he is without fully understanding. The two need one another now.
Those poor gaurds, to be stuck between Hardorn and guarding a king, that keeps taking off. I love the tree and the eagle in this chapter. Gwalhir had much good news to tell. The twins can make their choice at any time, so Arwin will not be alone. And that all three ringbearers can go, plus Gimli too.
Author's reply
Yes, I feel for the King, although considering Aragorn didn't allow Hardorn to accompany them the last time, I think he'll go easy on them.
And the news carried by Gwaihir is indeed of the best kind, offering much easing to the heart of King and Queen.
So glad you are keeping at it.
Kitty
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
They insisted Sam should be family head? The other Gamgees are very reasonable people, I’d say *grin* Sam himself may not like it, but it’s the first step for him becoming Mayor, isn’t it? He now has experiences no other Gamgee ever had and a far deeper understanding of many things and outside of the Shire, too. I’m glad nobody of the other family heads objected to this, even if it’s probably none of their business who’s family head.
So they told the family heads a bit, and Sam told Mina? Well, it’s a start, although I’m not sure how much they can understand. Mina, on the other hand, knows already a bit, and I suppose it will help her to understand more – a good thing as long as Frodo is staying with her some days every week.
And it’s still interesting to see how the hobbits started to investigate what Lotho did and who was his victim and who was his ally, and in case of the latter, forced or out of their own free will.
Author's reply
Well, of course Sam would end up family head, and all the others in his family would be very pleased--the best educated and most literate and traveled in the family is now the one who keeps the book and sees to family business and interactions with others. And it is indeed the first step with the other Hobbits of the Shire, to becoming Mayor.
Mina is trying to understand, at least; and by learning in bits and pieces is probably in a better position to understand almost all in the long run.
As for the investigations--they are necessary; and the distinctions between those who were coerced or blackmailed, and those who willingly conspired would be very necessary to learn that the proper remedies are offered in each case. This would be desired, I think, throughout the Shire.
Kitty
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 66: 66: A Conspiracy Stripped
Ah yes, that’s what I had hoped for what would come next: The investigations about Lotho and his questionable contracts!
Frodo is very perceptive in discerning the real reasons why the lawyers did what Lotho told them. He can judge a character very well. If he’d been healed and accepted the job of the Mayor it would’ve been interesting to watch, I think.
You know, that is definitely not fair that Frodo should have to pay for the prison! It was not Frodo who made Timono and the others to the bad guys they are, and it would be in the interest of all the hobbits to have a prison.
Author's reply
As Frodo sees it, as it was the influence of outsiders and very much due to the presence of Men within the Shire that led to much of the excesses of the Time of Troubles, he intends to see to it the proceeds of the business of Men goes to cleaning it up. Also, he sees prisons as a Mannish idea and institution, so again it makes sense to him to use his outside funds from the world of Men. I don't think he considers those funds quite properly his anyway.
And of course he'd have the discerning eye to tell who was collaborating from who was coerced; he has the King's Gift, learned from the example of the best, and knows the folk of the Shire pretty well.
Baggins Babe
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
So even Mina has 'eyes to see.' She seems to really appreciate Frodo - and Sam, and has a greater understanding of what they've been through than her husband. A very perceptive lady.
I loved Sam's description of how he has become family head. Of all the families one would imagine might dismiss the whole thing, the sensible Gamgees were at the top of the list, yet they have accepted that he has been enobled, and they recognise his intelligence and wisdom. Good that his recognition begins with his own kin. Ironic that Sam is having less trouble explaining things to his folk than Merry and Pippin are to theirs.
Sam's embarrassment was funny - all done up in his Gondorian outfit! And nice to note Will's surprise that Sam can read and write Sindarin. Even the down-to-earth Gamgee family are impressed by that and want Elvish script in their family book. They really ganged up on him, didn't they? :-))
Author's reply
Yes, Mina is beginning to see indeed, although she's not perhaps realizing what she's seeing.
It's fun to think of the "simpler" families being more accepting of things as they are, where the more sophisticated also have more emotional investment in trying to imagine things were otherwise than they are, or in trying to protect their own from further possible trauma.
All the rest of the notables of the Shire are having to come to terms with the fact Sam is NOT a simple soul after all; and Will is just the one we see first appreciating that Bilbo has made certain this "simple" gardener is far better educated than most Hobbits, and now in a far better position to deal with that pesky outer world of which they've been forcibly made aware.
Glad you like the manner in which the family ganged up on Sam--it would take that, I think, to get the process of acceptance of authority going for him.
Baggins Babe
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 66: 66: A Conspiracy Stripped
I always enjoy seeing the day to day lives of the hobbits and it is particularly interesting to think about how the clearing up was done. I love Frodo's interrogation here - he's learned a lot from watching Aragorn, hasn't he?
“Mr. Smallburrow here is going to be the first guest of the facility."
Nice way to put it, I must say, but i'm glad that Frodo now accepts they have to have somewhere to put the worst offenders, even if it is a hobbity prison!
Such a pity Frodo cannot bring himself to speak about what happened to him, but at least work is proving something of a distraction.
Author's reply
I tried to put up the next chapter, but I apparently got timed out and didn't realize it, so it'll go up tomorrow as I have to leave shortly.
So glad you approve of Frodo's investigations, and I agree he's going about it the proper way. And, yes, he learned from watching Aragorn.
But what Frodo's undergone will continue coming out in bits and pieces.
harrowcat
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
I always thought that Sam would prove the best at telling the story in a straight forward, if simplified, way. All that listening to Bilbo and Frodo telling tales is paying off, (coupled with his natural ability!) And Mina is understanding with more than her head.
Sam as Family head is perfect and as fashion setter? Well all I could do was giggle! But he carries it off with his 'natural dignity'. The bit with the circlets is priceless! As was the question of who knows which languages - Strider beats them all of course!
Pippin being to one to continue the custom of facing the west is exactly right. And so we see the beginning of another shire custom. I remember Will finally getting an explanation of it in the King's Commission.
I coule go on and on but, as usual I'm now running late!
Author's reply
So glad you approve, Harrowcat. Yes, Pippin starts the Standing Silence, and the other three follow; and in time it becomes more and more common throughout the Shire as it is in Gondor, and probably increasingly true throughout the rest of Arnor as well.
Sam's first step to Shire-wide recognition is starting here; and he's beginning to tell forth at least what needs to be known and understood; and Mina, who is an emotionally based person, is indeed starting to understand in her heart that which her head doesn't yet know.
And so glad you enjoyed the first tale of Sam and the Circlets, and Frodo's attempt to leave his behind. Trust Gandalf not to let him out of his new position, right? Heh!
And hugs to Jet, and my respects to your folks.
Bodkin
· 15 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
Those poor circlets! But they keep turning up, no matter how Frodo and Sam try to minimise them or hide them away.
I like your reasoning for Sam becoming family head - it sounds as if his kin were only too happy to find a reason to pass on the task! And his explanation of events is quite straightforward. But it is so much easier to see the drama of battle than the quiet sacrifice of the Frodo/Sam role. Mina, though, has seen more than most and probably has a better grasp of Frodo's suffering.
Author's reply
Yes, the circlets keep coming out, allowing others to begin to appreciate just how special the outer world sees Frodo and Sam as being. Sam's own family knows now, and the rest of the Shire will eventually know as well as the one entrusted with the Red Book begins sharing what it contains. Thank Gandalf for knowing this information is needed by those in the Shire.
And you are right about the battles being easier to understand than Sam and Frodo's roles in the last fight against Sauron.
Mina knows deep loss herself, and is indeed in better shape to fully appreciate what Frodo feels, if not yet why. And certainly he needs that now.
I love the warden. I enjoyed the pride he took in his job and his efforts to be fair. His words about some of his charges being innocent were refreshing. So many in his position are written as harden by it all but I like this much better.
Author's reply
Oh, how did I miss this, GW?
And am so very glad you appreciate Madog. This is how warders ought to be, after all--not hardened creeps with no humanity left, or those simply out to impose their own power just because they can.
Thanks for the note.
Queen Galadriel
· 14 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
Forgot to add, I love this bit!
When Merry and Pippin began to laugh merrily he flushed even more. “It’s not funny! I’m not supposed to
be family head, you know! ... And Uncle Andy
insists I write somethin’ in Elvish by each one’s name, too. Seems real impressed I can read and write Sindarin, he does."
LOL! Poor Sam! I can sympathise with that feeling! Ha!
Oh, and you haven't lost me on TTOF. It's just that between school, working on an original fantasy, trying to write...um...I think six fanfics at once, and a million other things I'm a little bit busy! :)
Author's reply
I'm glad you can sympathise--I used to get to write braille names for all my students in regular classes, which could be interesting.
As for having sixteen projects at once--there, too, I can sympathise, although I usually try to restrict myself to one story at a time, with occasional one-chapter ones now and then to give myself a break now and then.
Queen Galadriel
· 14 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
I've been subconsciously waiting for this conversation between Sam and Mina. I never thought about it, but they have something in common in the way each cares for Frodo-not exactly the same, but it seems so sometimes, because Sam tries to be whatever Frodo needs at the time, I suppose. And I love the wonderful cousinly teasing! :) Why O why did they have to notice the bite just then? A wonderful chapter, Larner! God bless,
Galadriel
Author's reply
Well, at least they know that the bite is there, and it helps later as the fairly regular draining of it leads to more difficulties for Frodo at different times.
So glad you like how Sam and Mina feel such fellow feeling at the time.
Linda Hoyland
· 14 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
Nice to see Sam getting some proper acknowledgement.
Author's reply
At least he's getting it from his own family. And who deserves it more, do you think? The "lowly" gardener is beginning to be recognized for his actions, education, wisdom, and accomplishments, and it's starting at the most basic and meaningful level--from his own family.
Dreamflower
· 14 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
Ah, yes, the investigation by the family heads! Funnily enough, it was the fear of such an investigation that sent my own bad guys over the edge.
But I do like the way you set it all up; and I really like some of the other touches, as well--such as the Gamgees making Sam family head! Little do they know there is one more name change in store--to Gardener.
Sam's explanation of the Quest to Mina was well told, though I wonder how much of it she understood.
Poor Frodo, wanting to forget, yet really forgetting is not what is needed. He can't realize that facing his memories and learning from what happened is far more likely to help him heal. But of course, however wise he is for others, for himself he lacks understanding. *sigh*
Author's reply
I still have to catch up on that story, Dreamflower, but intend to do so fairly soon if possible.
Yes, the recognition of Sam is starting at the most basic level, and in seven and a half years will be Shire-wide, and the new name will most likely be bestowed on the family, as happened to Aragorn, by the folk he comes to help lead.
Mina won't understand it all now, but is in a better situation to understand when she finally sees Aragorn herself in a few years when he comes north to the conferences in the North Kingdoms.
As for Frodo--we all tend to forgive far more easily in others what we condemn in ourselves. He has a ways to go, yes.
Linda Hoyland
· 14 January 2006
· Chapter 65: 65: The King's Lineage
Poor Mina,that must have been a shock to her,though she should not have been there.I loved the idea of Frodo drawing Aragorn.
Author's reply
When we pretend to ourselves someone is close kin to us, we do tend to do odd things we ought not do. I'd written before that Frodo kept that picture in his pocket and later gave it to Narcissa; now we know how he came to draw it. But it would give him a good deal of pleasure to have it, I think.
Linda Hoyland
· 14 January 2006
· Chapter 66: 66: A Conspiracy Stripped
It is good that Frodo is finally starting to talk to those around him.
Author's reply
He's speaking some, but probably not enough, really. So glad you appreciate it.
shirebound
· 14 January 2006
· Chapter 67: 67: Family Heads
it seemed the thin starlight was somehow reflected from his pale face
...for eyes to see that can.
Author's reply
And Mina's eyes are open....
Radbooks
· 14 January 2006
· Chapter 66: 66: A Conspiracy Stripped
That would be such a difficult job for Frodo to do. Having to sort out all of that mess with the contracts and all of the legal stuff. It would be tough even in the best of health! But he is so discerning that he can at least pick things out and read people so that's helpful and I know it's probably good for him to be working. It's not good to sit by idly... work brings its own sort of healing I think.
It's good that more and more is being told to Sara and Will, even if it is just little glimpses here and there. But it must be so frustrating for them. You would just want to shake someone and say - 'Tell me what happened!' :) Trying to put it all together from the little clues they are getting from Frodo, Merry, and Pippin (probably not much from Sam right now because he's not around) would be difficult at best.
Looking forward to the next chapter!
Author's reply
I do think those eight months of work helped Frodo hang on, and wish he'd not given back over to Will so quickly, myself. Maybe he would have held on longer. You are right--work itself is therapeutic, and he knew the folks involved well enough to pick up on who was lying and who was not.
And you're right also on the difficulties of getting the stories in dribs and drabs, but it's probably the only way they'd get it at first.
Next chapter is now up, so enjoy.