daw the minstrel
· 25 August 2005
· Chapter 6: The council of Ereinion
Wow. That was confusing even for me as I read it. I can't imagine being Gil-galad. That tent must have been bulging with people and energy! What a job sorting all those needs out was.
Author's reply
Apologies for the headache! I had to laugh as I read this....HAve you seeen a movie by the Marx Brothers (groucho and co) in which many different people are stacked in a ship cabin and Groucho keeps calling the waiter and ordering food while his "guests" are crammed inside? That scene suddenly came to my mind as I was writing this chapter and then I was lost...:-)
Bodkin
· 24 August 2005
· Chapter 5: A busy morning
Ha! I have discovered another alias! And enjoyed myself over rather more chaos and confusion!
Author's reply
Oh, my! You see, that "temperamental" site decided some time ago that perelleth was no longer a worthy penname, and I've never been able to upload anything for months, so I tried with another...
Well, I'm glad that you enjoyed... last chapter and Epilogue are sketched, but I have yet to find a peaceful moment to polish them up, so I'm afraid you shall have to wait a bit yet! :-)
French Pony
· 22 August 2005
· Chapter 5: A busy morning
Hi-dee-ho! Just got back from a week with the lunatic family, so I'm catching up on things, including this story.
I enjoyed your discussion of the different reasons Elrond and Elros had for their choices. It makes sense, and it sets them apart as two individual people who react to life's circumstances differently.
Author's reply
Hope the full moon did not have a suplementary effect upon their moods! It is good to go home from time to time, I hope you enjoyed!
Knowing what we know about Elrond, it was very interesting to try and figure what kind of person Elros would have been... similar or wolly different? I chose different...
elliska
· 18 August 2005
· Chapter 5: A busy morning
First, I love Erestor in this--especially his thoughts on Elrond. Rising early, neat hand writing, schedules, love of knowledge--I can so see him appreciating these things. And his frustration with Gil-galad for falling victim to the unscheduled is too funny. But I particularly like the idea of him being Nandorin. That seems really nice to me.
Indeed, the personalities of all these characters are just great. Gil-galad's idea that getting up before sunrise is unhealthy so it shocks Elrond to hear he is gone / Elros's love to be loved and merrymaking with his men. They all seem so rich.
And I love the history you weave into this--especially the reference to the Dwarves reaction to the Nirnaeth. I also think that battle and the Sindarin's lack of participation in it would have at least caught the notice of those that did fight. I found your mention of it here interesting.
Again, the scene with Celeborn was great. an encounter he had won, of course, he thought smugly, as he considered his victory; they had postponed a decision regarding conceiving a child and swearing their allegiance to Ereinion. Why do I think that 'winning' with Galadriel is all a matter of one's perspective and not true victory? But the lack of guards was hilarious. And poor Celeborn on the ship. Between being bored to tears and then witnessing that confrontation...I see the chaos in this new world will continue.
This was another great chapter!
Author's reply
I'm glad that you like my Erestor, for he's quite different from what is usually seen in fandom.. I suppose that we all have our own mental pictures, and for a long time I had had this mental image of him. Glad you found it acceptable :-)
I must confess that I've been more of a Noldorin sided reader since the very beginning (and I read the SIlm right after LOTR, some twenty years ago...) so it made me think when I read so many stories where all kind of evil deeds, unspeakable designs and plottings and even corrupted nature were attributed to them.
Every story has at least two sides, if not three or four, and with every side put together, you can maybe get closer to the truth. So I believe that each party had its ow reasons for holding grudges against each other in this camp. THe dwarves, too, had each and every reason to dislike the Sindar. THe Sindar were judging the race for what a part did, and the dwarves fought MOrgoth while the Doriathrim remained comfortably protected behind their girdle, so, yes, truth is in the eye of the beholder. But, life is such, and the most intelligent thing to do is to look ahead, which is what Ereinion's been taught by Círdan and is trying to impress upon his unruly, unwilling subjects and rebellious kin... But hey, blame my professionally biased look for this approach! :-)
He, poor Celeborn, he considered himself a winner, indeed....
Bodkin
· 18 August 2005
· Chapter 5: A busy morning
I just loved the image of Ingil sitting there trying to be all golden and meditative while the activity around him distracted him.
And I hope Galadriel punches Olvarin on the nose for being horrible to Ereinion. The kinslaying at Alqualonde was not his fault and elves should be above inflicting grudges on those who are innocent of harm.
I like Elrond - poor lad. I can see how it would take him several ages to develop his own self image. Not man, nor Noldo, nor Sinda - nor anything really, but, at the same time, all of them. Accepted by some and rejected by others and looking for himself. Erestor is good for him. Elros - maybe not. Or not all the time anyway.
Oropher. He's another punch on the nose job. Ego as big as Arda. A very suitable victim for the wiles of Elros and Elrond.
This is delightfully complicated - keeping track of all and sundry as they ramble round among the massed armies and refugees. Such fun!
Author's reply
He! glad you liked poor Ingil! He grew on me as the story progresed, and now I'm shamelessly fond of him! He's so out of his milieu! he's trying, but everything is oh so different fron what he always knew! HE's truly disconcerted!
AS you point out, grudges fly in all directions in this camp. Oropher has his own reasons, and Olvárin is purging his boredom in any way available, be it fair or not...It always made me laugh in the SIlm when it says that the Teleri finally accepted to sail the Army of the West to MEe, but they refused to set foot upon those shores. I always wondered what they would be doing while the rest were engaged in a war that was not terribly short.. Anyway, as you say, they're elves, and they'll eventually manage to be able to understand each other, or at least work together...Glad that you find it fun, despite the difficulties of tracking everybody accross the camp...
Nilmandra
· 17 August 2005
· Chapter 5: A busy morning
At Círdan’s prodding, he had survived the task of overseeing the exiled young prince’s education almost unscathed, except for the vast knowledge of Noldorin language, lore and culture acquired during those years and a deep fondness for the youngster, whose neat handwriting, acceptable love of lore and innate sense of duty qualified him as a decent ruler in Erestor’s more than informed opinion.
This made me laugh. Poor Erestor..having to oversee the king as a child and into adulthood, but more importantly, his criteria for a fine ruler!
Ereinion manages to give them the slip yet again. Perhaps he can hook up with Celeborn and Galadriel's guards, who remain MIA. Surely they knew when the noise ended it was safe to return? Or perhaps the noise didn't abate until morning?
Elrond and Elros were terrible! Ok, terribly funny, teasing Oropher like that. Elros is good for Elrond, keeps him from thinking too much.
And I think poor Ingil is ready to go home :D
Author's reply
I'm glad you liked the peredhil, Nilmandra, to me you're the authority in the subject! :-) It was fun to try and picture Elrond at this age and difficult moment in his life. HE had a whole age to grow into the elf who would become Celeborn and Galadriel's son-in-law, and the beginnings must have been hard for him. Picturing the peredhil's characters was fun, their situation was awkward, half everything and not truly belonging to anywhere, except each other...
As for the guards... mmm, I tend to suscribe your theory... or they just simply.. took advantage. As wood elves from Nenuial, maybe they still need some more training in what being guards means...
daw the minstrel
· 17 August 2005
· Chapter 5: A busy morning
In which everybody gets up before Arien- and nothing good can come from that-
Perelleth, you are such a hoot! The dry sense of humor in this story just tickles me no end.
The comings and goings of these people are tangled up in old actions and new possibilities, so none of them knows quite what to expect, I think.
Author's reply
;-) I feel honoured! I did have a great time writing this story, and I'm so glad that you find it amusing too.. To be truly honest, not even me knew what was going to hapen at the time I was writing it! With so many people around, with different povs and priorities, things could not be easy for any of them...
elliska
· 15 August 2005
· Chapter 4: Kingly dinner
Oh my God this was a riot! (Almost literally in some places, I think). There is too much in here to comment on--poor Gil-galad and all the problems involved in getting all these people to live and work together and satisfy their needs. That was extremely well done. And his horse and tunic--you are just cruel!
That dinner! I can not think of a sinlge way that you could have made that worse. I was choking by the time I got to the end of it. Not leaving the ships because of Feanor's burning of the ships! The arrangements the Men of Numenor, elves of Middle Earth and elves returning to Valinor faced and Elros's attitude towards Gil-galad! And the way you showed it all from Cirdan's POV. Cirdan is a wicked, mischievous thing to take such pleasure in all this...wait, I did too. :-)
But the end with Celeborn and Galadriel--that was extremely well done! The poor guards!
This was a fantastically written chapter!
Author's reply
I'm glad you found it amusing! A riot describes it well, I believe....a strenuous dinner wasn't it? That's why one must choose carefully whom to invite to dinner! Poor Finarfin will need some time to overcome this!
Círdan is the most ancient elf in ME, and he was there when the parents and greatparents of all these younglings were trying to convince everybody to move away to Valinor, so I believe he has the age and distance enough to watch with amusement as they all appease their egos and find a way to work together. And enjoy it in the process :-)
You know, as the story grew and the cast swell I was getting more and more afraid, so I'm particularly glad that you found it entertaining.
Bodkin
· 12 August 2005
· Chapter 4: Kingly dinner
I feel sorry for Finarfin. This is definitely not one of those dinner parties he is going to want to remember. But it will haunt him until - eventually - all parties are rehoused and reunited in Valinor. And even then, he will cringe at the prospect of having this mentioned in front of Earwen.
I really like Ereinion, poor kid. Elros has all the sensitivity of a Feanorion. (Loved it when Finarfin couldn't tell who was which.) And Ingil - 'the Vanyarin heir' - still seems to have the intellectual capacity of a turnip.
But the guards hovering in earshot of the - er - activities in Celeborn and Galadriel's tent are just the best. (Although it's just as well, really, that Galadriel was too miffed to return to the open prison of Tol Eressea. Her presence in Arda was probably a good thing in the long run. Bearing in mind that I like Galadriel.)
Most enjoyable.
Author's reply
I must confess that I ended up feeling sorry for everybody, but FInarfin raking the tablecloth was my favourite. Such a mess! Cross cultual meetings always have such effects! :-)
ANd the poor guards shal be asking for a raise in their pay, or something, but they were having a great time, before the ice began melting, didn't they? :-)
Glad you liked it!
Elemmíre
· 12 August 2005
· Chapter 4: Kingly dinner
hehehe...nice chapter. :)
Elemmíre
Author's reply
I'll take it that you had just as much fun reading as I had writing! ;-) THanks!!!!
French Pony
· 11 August 2005
· Chapter 4: Kingly dinner
Oh, my, the tsuris of being a young King, respected by precisely no one, with a million things to do, and a formal dinner awaiting. Poor old Ereinion is not having a fun day here, is he?
The dinner was wonderful. Half the guests are so determined not to hurt anyone's feelings that they can't do a thing, and the other half are equally determined to provoke everyone around them. Sounds like a family get-together at my house.
And good ol' Galadriel. Always knows just what to do with her Celeborn, doesn't she. Finarfin would be horrified.
Author's reply
YOur family, too? :-) I thought I was writing about mine!
YEp, respected by precisely not one. The deeper I got involved in the story, the more I dreaded Ereinion's job. I wouldn't be in his shoes for anything! Who needs the enemy, with friends and realtives like his? But he somehow succeeded, so I'm optimistic about the outcome...
LEt's hope the guards never think of informing the High King of the Noldor, or he would have a fit!!!!
Nilmandra
· 11 August 2005
· Chapter 4: Kingly dinner
I am ROFLOL at Elves (and Peredhel) behaving badly! Between Elros's lack of good sense and Ereinion's bad mood and all the Noldor and Sindar and Vanyar and Teleri politicial bickering....oh my, they were funny.
Ah, to be a guard....they must absolutely feed the gossip machine.
Author's reply
I'm so glad to read that the chapter made you laugh, NIlmandra, you surely may need it, taking into account what you are supposedly writing at this time... :-) I, too, had great fun writing it. The deeper I got into this story, the more nightmarish Ereinion's role looked to me. Trying to make that camp, city, kngdom work was an extraoridnary achievement indeed!
Poor guards, indeed.Who would ever believe them?
daw the minstrel
· 11 August 2005
· Chapter 4: Kingly dinner
Ereinion is such a great character. He's so young for the responsibility of being king. You show him acting like a kid (running through the camp) but also with real leadership, someone people want to follow.
Ah! but Finarfin had not taken into account the doom of the Noldor
I laughed out loud at that. Cirdan is so wicked! Poor Finarfin.
And drunk Elros is a hoot. It's like dinner theater!
But what a stroke of brilliance to show the Galadriel & Celeborn conversation from the POV of the guards.
Author's reply
WEll, yes, I suppose that at 140 he's quite young, and even younger if you compare him with all those around him. Taking into account how the age ends, I guessed he must have had some good qualities as a leader..
I'm glad you enjoyed the chapter. I had great fun writing it, especially the poor guards, but it was Círdan's wicked, experienced view what made me laugh. HE's wicked indeed! :-)
Bodkin
· 6 August 2005
· Chapter 3: Pleasant encounters
I've been away - and am delighted to come back and find this. It's such a gorgeous tale of frustration and decisions - and hurt and incomprehension - with a fantastic cast of characters! Such an interesting time. I feel for them all. Well apart from Oropher here - arrogant big-head. And Ingil - perhaps he should just get back on the boat and brush the dust of Middle Earth from his shiny Vanyar boots.
Delightful. I'm looking forward to the next instalment of cross-purposes!
Author's reply
Hope you enjoyed your holiday! And glad that you're enjoying this tale. YOu see, the cast increased at an almost unbelievable pace, but the setting called for it, and yes, misunderstandings, frustrations, decisions, grudges and silliness are part of everybody's everyday's life...
I must confess that I even grew to like Oropher by the end of the tale, and I so much hope that you shall end up liking Ingil! poor one, he's completely out of his element! :-)
Chapter four will be posted as soon as I'm able to locate a computer with a USB connection... :-/
Thanks again for your kind words! :-)
elliska
· 3 August 2005
· Chapter 3: Pleasant encounters
Sorry it took me so long to review. I'm buried at work as usual this summer.
This was a great chapter. I howled when I realised Celeborn, Galadriel and Finarfin were witnessing Oropher and Gil-galad's fight. Oh, that was bad timing wasn't it, with Finarfin worried about Galadriel's safety and unimpressed with the Sindarin! That was great!
And I liked Galadriel's conversation with Ingil and her open anger that he was trying to persuade her to come back to Valinor. I doubt Galadriel would miss what was happening and she did not.
But my favorite part of this was Celeborn and Finarfin's conversation and how Celeborn saw Finarfin's point of view and the Noldo's point of view. That was really well done.
Great chapter. :-)
Author's reply
Don't worry, I can understand you only to well. It is a little comfort to know that I'm not the only one buried at work while the rest of the Northern hemisphere is enjoying a hot summer...:-)
Empathy is an interesting feeling, ins't it? Watching an elf who had just lost four children, and relating that to the pain he had seen Elu endure finally made the trick, or almost, for Celeborn. Even if Lúthien had been lost forever, losing four to Mandos' doom was not a good deal, either, I'd say...I, too, would be trying to secure what was left of that mess, although charging Ingil with the mission wasn't very useful...Galadriel's still Galadriel! :-)
Nilmandra
· 3 August 2005
· Chapter 3: Pleasant encounters
He sighed deeply, knowing that love hurt deeper than any sword, and crouched beside the king.
This line struck me the most, out of all of these conversation among mighty and powerful elves. No matter their differenes, they are all alike at the core with the need to love and be loved, and the grief they experience when love is sundered temporarily or permanently is the same regardless of which kindred one belongs too. Celeborn and Finarfin have reached an understanding, I think, that will undergird their relationship for all time, no matter how rocky it might be when they are all together finally.
I also liked the Vanyarin thoughts of mortals...how strange they must have found Men who willingly gave of their short lives? I do hope in reality they were better prepared for war than what his raging recollections showed though!
Author's reply
Well…thankfully, the War of Wrath ended well, didn’t it? But I’m sure their plans needed some adjustment upon arrival. Too often hi-tech, carefully planned expeditions and projects founder in contact with harsh reality, and home made solutions and in-field adaptations are needed before plans made in one place are ready to actually work in a different environment, and before teams from different cultures can cooperate…at least in my experience! :- ) Yes, Ingil was somewhat bewildered still...too many new things for them! :-)
daw the minstrel
· 2 August 2005
· Chapter 3: Pleasant encounters
I would say that anyone who tries to "manage" Galadriel deserves what they get. One of Celeborn's great strengths is that he's willing to take her as she is. And in my opinion, she's lucky to have him!
Author's reply
Yep, it is an interesting relationship, isn't it? I suppose they managed to complement each other's strengths and weakenesses, not an easy task, anyway! Celeborn must have been laughing just imagining the scoldings everyone was receiving!
French Pony
· 2 August 2005
· Chapter 3: Pleasant encounters
Boy, Finarfin & Co. are really aiming high if they want to get Galadriel to do something she does not want to do! No matter how much they wheedle, bargain, cajole, threaten, or guilt-trip her, she will do what she will do.
“we felt their mood change many times, didn’t we, Arta…Galad…daughter?”
I loved that line. It was just perfect.
And I loved the mention of all the problems the Vanyar host encountered due to poor planning. Mistaking Men for Orcs! Forgetting to bring horses! I love it!
Author's reply
Yes, I'd say that two or three Valar must be needed to cause Galadriel just to budge...Finarfin wasn't kind to charge Ingil with trying where he had failed...
And I'm sure that the "War of Wrath" secret files must be a useful handbook of Murphy's law, Valinorean style. Such expeditions always are, and things are never as they are supposed to be... :-)
The Karenator
· 30 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Having Fun
I've gotten behind in reading and reviewing and by the time I saw this story, you were on chapter two!
But what a delightful story. I love the 'young' feel of the characters. You captured that 'age' for them very well. We know these characters in Tolkien's work after they've been around for an age or two, so it's interesting to see them before they become the characters he wrote. You created believable and interesting 'younger' versions.
Poor Ereinion had quite a headache. Even if Oropher outsmarted him, Oropher got outsmarted too. LOL! What goes around, comes around. And Oropher was rather less than welcoming to the dwarf. That's the problem with living so long; you were there when things went to pot.
Elrond and Elros were interesting to see as well. It must be a tough time for them now that they've made their decisions.
I'm looking forward to following along with this story. Very good, Perelleth.
Karen
Author's reply
Hi Karen, welcome and thanks! The story is already written and I had the misconception that summer was a time when there were fewer stories to read,that's why I posted two chapters in so short a time, but I've seen that I'm sorely mistaken! I'm too, quite behind with my own r&r! (blame it to HP, too...)
I'm glad that you found them interesting! As you say, we have glimpses of these characters at the end of the second age and some of then go through the the third, but all these powerful kings and kingdoms and lords and lordships must have started from somewhere, and this camp in what would later become the Grey Havens seemed a very promising madhouse sceneario to me. ;-)
elliska
· 30 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Having Fun
Oh you are evil in this chapter! ;-) Oropher was just a nightmare, and frankly I imagine this close to the Dwarves' invasion of Menegroth and the kinslayings, he (and a lot of other Sindar) would react exactly like this to a dwarf (messenger or not) and a Noldor king. But poor Gil-galad--he is not having an easy beginning.
And if the actual encounter isn't bad enough, to have Elros bring more messengers with dinner invitations while the poor king is so 'indisposed.' Oh I really felt for him.
And I like how you are playing with the names in this--both Gil-galad's in this chapter and Galadriel's in the last. I think I forgot to mention that, last time.
You are doing a great job showing the conflicts these characters would be experiencing at this point in history. It would be an absolutely fascinating time (assuming you were one of the kings--then it would be just as you are showing it ;-) )
Great chapter!
Author's reply
Thanks, elliska!
I suppose that "normal" people would be busy settling down, and helping each other, and assuming daily tasks, but leave it to their leaders to overreact over one single messenger, or to provoke an incident with an oversensitive Sinda... I think this time was a difficult training for all of them... thankfully their people were more than used to manage on their own, and they still had Círdan!
I am not too familar with Oropher, and I unconsciously assumed what most fics portray as his personality. NOw that I'm done with the story I suppose that I see him as quickly angered but well intentioned, and I came to sympathize with him. And we must concede that he has a talent for mocking nicknames! :-) I'm glad you liked it, it was a sily joke, but I found it appropriately offensive for the situation and the character....
Haleth
· 29 July 2005
· Chapter 1: Sparks
This is wonderful!
I love the characterisations and the tensions between the Noldor and the Sindar.
It's great to see a fic set In this relatively neglected part of Middle-earth's history.
Haleth
Author's reply
Oh ! I'm glad that you liked it! This camp must have been a bomb waiting to explode, I just...toyed with it...:-)
I don't have your gift for condensed,explosive,unfolding humour,though!
Thanks!
French Pony
· 29 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Having Fun
Ereinion is not having a real good day here, is he? Never get into a fight with the house of Oropher, I say. Won't do anyone any good at all. I gotta say, the Noldor seem especially insensitive here, treating Oropher like a petty tyrant instead of simply keeping him and his folk separate from the dwarves at all times. I like Oropher. He does have some legitimate grievances, but you can already see the fanaticism that will lead him to take his people to live in splendid isolation for centuries.
And there's good old Elrond, in Doctor Mode. Enough to make any patient want to get well and get out of there soon.
Author's reply
I just passed your complains to Finarfin's guards,who happened to be on duty in that part of the forest, and they apologize, FP, for the Valinor relief troops' handbook on "how to deal with different races without causing another war" did not explicitly say what to do when a dwarf lord popped out from the forest among a group of Sindarin elves.. they have reported to the High command, but after long deliberations, Finarfin has refused to have fences built up to separate the different areas and the different races. He still believes that the peoples of ME can learn to live together... poor elf! :-)
"Splendid isolation" I loved that sentence, and it fits Oropher so well!
Nilmandra
· 29 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Having Fun
LOL at Gil-galad! Well, that was sure an interesting way for the king to behave. Our young kings have a lot to learn, and I'm sure Cirdan has his hands full while Finafin is just rolling his eyes at all these youngsters playing at being grown ups! But, they all clearly have skill as well. I look forward to the next chapter.
Author's reply
Yes, "interesting" would start to describe it, LOL! high kingship as we look at it from the tales of the Third Age must have started somewhere, and a camp of refugees, with differet backgrounds and races is a difficult training ground for everybody...
The story is already written, -except for the epilogue- and I hope to be posting regularly, since time for writing is going to be scarce for the next weeks, and I think August is a quiet month for almost everybody.. except me, as it turned out!
Nilmandra
· 29 July 2005
· Chapter 1: Sparks
Oh, I enjoyed this look at Gil-galad and Celeborn. Gil-galad was so young to have so many responsiblities thrust on him, and I like that you have shown both his youth and its accompanied feelings of inadquecy and also his sharp wit and tongue, and knowledge.
Celeborn can be both annoying and alluring, a perfect combination for a 'moriquendi' lord. He may never have seen the light of Valinor, but he is indeed husband enough for Galadriel. And she is as stubborn as her own father. Nice resemblance..and Im sure Finarfin sees it too.
Author's reply
I'm glad that you liked this take on the entangled family! I agree that Celebron is husband enough for Galdriel, i'm sure that at times he must have ben even more than enough! We'll see Finarfin's appreciation in chapter 3! :-)
As I have trouble dealing with pure and blind resentment among elves, I'm trying to get a look at how these mixed camp with so many leaders would have managed to deal with all the existing grudges before stepping into a new age. And I found it had many embarassing situations for everybody!
Thanks! :-)
daw the minstrel
· 29 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Having Fun
When I opened the review window, the chapter title popped up again and I had to laugh. "Having fun" indeed! Poor Gil-galad. And what a way for you to introduce Oropher to us. He's quite believable as someone who wouldn't wait for Gil-galad's orders years from now and so would charge to his death.
Nice job with Elrond and Elros too. They're brought alive here.
Author's reply
You're truly an early morning person, daw, aren't you?:-) I'm glad that I helped you start the day with a laugh! Anyway, all this is partly your *fault*, since while waiting for a new story from you I had to amuse myself on some other way! (a very discreet way to inquire whether your muses are taking a summer vacation was that, eh?)
I was a bit frightened of how this Oropher would come through, but, hey, with all that has been written about him in fandom, it is hard to picture him as one of Gil-galad's friends... anyway, I assure you that everybody suffer their share of embarasing situations in this story,I'm not deliberately charging my hand upon him alone...:-)
Glad that the Peredhil seemed alive to you. I found them quite endearing, myself. A difficlt time for them that must have been,too.. Thanks! :-)