harrowcat
· 14 July 2005
· Chapter 5: Return to Rivendell
Oh, *deep and very satisfied sigh.*
I love how you tackle Bilbo's move to Rivendell and what he does when he gets there. Poetry is Bilbo's preferred way of expression. Frodo writes it out, Sam has his flowers. What about Elrond and Aragorn: Healing? (or even the deadly dance of weapons practice!)
And both Bilbo and Elrond having the need to be teachers and learners answers my earlier question perfectly - thank you my dear Larner.
I find that you are throwing quite a different light on Gandalf for me. I know he is a Steward and the ring is his 'great task' (FOTR) but I am glad that Bilbo is quite capable of telling him to mind his own business!!!!
You made me grin with the image of a confused Elrond. Your stories. and a few others on this site, have brought his character alive for me - I've always been drawn to him and you have made me, in true hobbit fashion, recognise the importance of his blood-line.
I think my favourite bit of this chapter is Elrond's wisdom in not clouding Aragorn's judgement by revealing the connection between the three, especially as the love between them is already growing. But I wonder if Aragorn can be truely accepting of the fact that the revelation comes too late to celebrate it while all three are still together this side of the sundering sea.
Author's reply
Elrond and Aragorn have so many different activities in common--healing, learning, weaponry and strategy, preparation for the rule to come in Aragorn's case and the giving up of rule in that of Elrond.
Yes, Bilbo, if he has come to that point of awareness that Frodo and Sam are the lost ones finally born, would be most likely to be able to let Gandalf know that he's demonstrated his ability to do his best by the two of his wards and students and that he wishes to protect them further.
As for Aragorn's realization of the spiritual ties--I've chosen to let stand what I wrote in The Ties of Family.
Am glad you find my interpretation of Elrond adds to your own appreciation of his character.
Thanks again for the Nuzgul and the feedback and the constant prompts to examine it more fully.
Tigger
· 14 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Surprise
Oh Larner...What a delightful scene you've created. W/Gandalf's light recognizing Frodo and Sam's Lights of Being for what they truly were. The relief and pure amusement of Gandalf was delightful.
As always, looking forward to more.
Author's reply
Yes, Gandalf would be experiencing a fair amount of relief as well as amusement, I think. And I like to think of Eru with a sense of humor.
SlightlyTookish
· 13 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Surprise
Wow, I'm so glad I found this story tonight! What an interesting concept! I like the interweaving of the hobbits and the Dunedain, and I just love the idea of Gandalf finding such hope within the hobbits. I'm looking forward to reading more :)
Author's reply
This will not be a long story--less than ten chapters, at least. But am glad you enjoy it so far.
I've always felt there was a special relationship between Aragorn and Frodo, then between each of them and Sam. How it might have come to be is a question I've explored, and decided to examine them in terms of Gilraen as well.
Thanks for the feedback.
harrowcat
· 13 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Surprise
How frustrating for Elrond and Gandalf. They must have been ready to clobber Glorfindel who is obviously a little more ready to trust. I hope he remembers this occasion when he gets towards the end of the quest.
"And Gandalf said: 'Many folk like to know beforehand what is to be set on the table; but those who have laboured to prepare the feast like to keep their secret; for wonder makes the words of praise louder." ROTK Chap 5.
I like the way that you have Gandalf's search and frustration give way to joy and praise of the Creator.
So, is Gandalf going to to go and report back or leave Elrond in suspense?
And what about Glorfindel? Frodo sees the light of his being and his full elven glory when they meet on the way to the ford. What does Glorfindel perceive about Frodo and, perhaps Sam too?
Oh, and please tell me you are going to develop that little gem in the second chapter about Gandalf seeing something potentially dangerous around Bilbo. How does Gandalf get him to tell the true story about his 'birthday present'?
I am sorry about all the questions - just call me Pippin! But it is your own fault! You blame me for the Nuzgul and I seem to have turned into a back-seat author! My three volume set of the Canon is now chained alongside my computer because I am not as trusting or as generous as Elrond. :) Just ignore me and keep writing it your way - it is brilliant.
Author's reply
I'll tell you you have already caused some significant rewrites of what was supposed to, originally, have been a four chapter story. It's not a LOT longer, but two chapters have been extended and two more added on.
Am NOT going to say how Gandalf got Bilbo to tell the truth about the Ring, as that apparently happened before Frodo came to live with him, after all. But I did describe discussions on this question in For Eyes to See as Can. But as for how Elrond and Glorfindel react, that's coming up.
shirebound
· 13 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Surprise
The Enemy, in his self-centeredness, would expect those who came against him to be great warriors as was Aragorn. Never in his wildest dreams would he expect this!
Indeed not! What a wonderful surprise, and I would have loved to see the look on Gandalf's face.
Author's reply
Even though he had every indication ahead of time that Eru was planning this, it still must have been a shock, finding such hope hidden here, in the Shire, in the hearts of two Hobbit lads.
But the Enemy has his own standards of measurement, and cannot imagine another.
Thanks for the review.
Kitty
· 13 July 2005
· Chapter 3: Birthing
*sniff* Poor Gilraen. It is so sad she didn't live long enough to see her son happy crowned and married and to meet her reborn other sons. Maybe it was some comfort to her to know they're born in the Shire and there is someone who she knows to care for them.
Author's reply
It was probably a relief in one way, and a grief in another, knowing she wouldn't see them herself. But to know they were well taken care of must have been heartening.
Radbooks
· 13 July 2005
· Chapter 3: Birthing
Oh good, sort of bittersweet chapter. One of the things that's always been sad for me about Lord of the Rings is that Gilraen never got to see Aragorn come into his Kingship, never got to see all of the prophecies fulfilled and the kingdoms restored. She gave up so much and died much too young, maybe I was thinking about it more recently because of several stories I've been reading - this one, and then a one chapter one by Thundera Tiger about Aragorn coming to her grave and being there with Halbarad and then I'm reading Nilmandra's new History Lessons story which also starts with Gilraen and little Estel's arrival and I've just been struck by all that she gave up for him and for her people and for all of Middle Earth. So much of Tolkien's writing is about self-sacrifice and she and Aragorn and Frodo all gave up so much of themselves for Middle Earth at incredible costs to themselves.
Well, that wasn't so much a review of your chapter as a comment about Gilraen! :) Anyway, I did enjoy the chapter and I loved how Aragorn came to visit her and how he brought her gifts at different times and how he got her to share with him about her dream, very persistant. :) Then Frodo being born and so small and them trying to save him, I could just see him all small and struggling to breath. Nicely done!
Author's reply
Have used the techniques I ascribed to the midwife trying to get puppies breathing, so know they are not all that unusual and probably as useful for Hobbit babies as for small Pomeranians.
Gilraen appears to have chosen not to remain to see what became of her son's hopes, and all I could hope was that she was indeed watching from afar or from inside what he achieved, his final coronation, joyful marriage, the birth of his children, the love shown him and his son by their people, and perhaps the grief when Frodo left and later Sam, seeing so many of those he loved going ahead of him.
She was a tragic figure in many ways, but was also that way, apparently, due to her own choice.
harrowcat
· 13 July 2005
· Chapter 3: Birthing
Oh I do love your details - kingsfoil for baby Frodo! And I do so agree that the Creator has such a strange sense of humour.
Author's reply
What else but Kingsfoil for Frodo at any age. And we are all indications of God's sense of humor, after all!
Meldewen Ilce
· 13 July 2005
· Chapter 3: Birthing
I'll say it again - THIS.IS.AMAZING!
I cannot believe I was right about Frodo and Sam being Aragorn's lost brothers!
She found she looked forward to entering the Presence and facing the Creator who had shown such a strange sense of humor.
Oh, I loved that line and found myself totally caught up in this chapter! You really are an amazing writer!
Please update again soon!
Author's reply
Thank you for the compliments. I was attending the ordination of a bishop of our church, and one of those giving homilies at the service commented that if we wanted proof God has a sense of humor, we only need to look at those he's brought to office within the church, a comment that has obviously stuck with me over the years.
I'd already explored the possibility in the last story I wrote regarding the possibility of Sam and Frodo possibly having been spiritual brothers to Aragorn--Harrowcat inspired to look more closely at the situation.
Meldewen Ilce
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
Whoa, I think I have a clue as to where this is headed: the two olders sons Gilrean lost will indeed be born as hobbits and I am guessing one will be Frodo and the other Samwise.
You're stories are quite amazing, you know that (even if I guess wrong in what I said above)?
Author's reply
I think we have enough clues, but do Gilraen, Gandalf, and Elrond, do you think?
Thanks for the compliment!
Tigger
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 3: Birthing
Oh my...Of course it would be Kingsfoil used to help little Frodo to breathe. And of course it would have the smell of the sea, as it always did to Frodo. What a wonderful chapter as always!!
Author's reply
Well, what else would be used? Thank you so much for appreciating the detail!
Kitty
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
You had me thinking about this. Is it easier for Gilraen to know her lost sons will be born eventually and help Aragorn to come in his own, or is it difficultier because they will not be born to her but to someone other? I think she must be torn about this.
Anyway, it is heartening to know Elrond and the others have foreseen this. No wonder Elrond has send so many books to Bilbo! And it's interesting Gandalf sensed even then the change in Bilbo's light caused by the One Ring.
Author's reply
Knowing that the two she'd hoped to know as her own sons would be born elsewhere would, I truly think, be a mixed blessing for Gilraen, and she would indeed feel both relieved and even more frustrated and sorrowful about the entire situation. As you point out, she would feel torn about this.
As yet, I don't think Elrond is truly foreseeing Bilbo's role in all this, but is just eager to share what knowledge there is with mortals before the time comes that he takes the road to the Havens, as appears imminent. Aragorn has been born, Sauron is back in Mordor, and all is obviously working toward the final showdown between the forces of Sauron and the Free Peoples of Middle Earth.
But I think Gandalf would have been aware that there was something going on with Bilbo, but not precisely what. But, being consistent with some of my former works, if Rosie was aware that somehow the presence of the Ring helped Frodo's Light shine brighter, the same ought to have been true also of Gandalf.
Andrea
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
Well, I don't know exactly what a Nuzgul is, but if all Nuzgul are like this, I like them :)
Why haven't I ever thought of the possibility, that Bilbo and Gilraen (and her son, of course) met in Rivendell? It's so obvious!
Gilraen knows, from her dreams, that Aragorn's brothers will be born elsewhere and that they will be brothers in spirit.
It seems to me, that Gandalf lets her chose the teacher for them. And she choses Bilbo, even if it seems somewhat ridiculous to her, that her sons should be born as Hobbits. I think it was Bilbo's light that impressed her and let her see a bond between Bilbo and Aragorn.
A wonderful story, Larner! I'm looking forward to reading more!
Author's reply
Nuzguls are a Henneth Annun convention to describe how inspirations for longer tales are generated--perhaps a more serious form of a plot bunny? I have found them in the space where the drawer is missing in the pedestal for my bed, in the linen cupboard, the cat sand, and now this one released by Harrowcat.
But I suspect that it is Iluvatar that is allowing the choice, or somehow inspiring Gilraen to realize what will be.
Thanks for the compliments.
Amy Earls
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
I'm really enjoying this spiritual theme.
Am so much appreciating exploring more about Gilraen and Bilbo. Gilraen especially has been so neglected by fanfic authors: killed off by those who want to focus on the Elrond/Estel relationship or written as clinically depressed. Raising Aragorn in Rivendell must have been a v. difficult situation for her, and the fact that he turned out so well must be at least partially due to her. I don't know if there were many female elves in Rivendell (due to my unfortunate prejudice against buying Christopher Tolkien's books), but I speculate that she would have been critical in helping to form Aragorn's attitude toward women and, eventually, Arwen.
Wondering if, by short, you mean that this story will be "only" 25-30 chapters.
Author's reply
By short, this time it will be less than ten. Just finished the last of the writing today.
I'm not certain how many female Elves were left in Rivendell, either. Not a great many, probably. But you are right--Gilraen would undoubtedly have been actively engaged in the raising of her son, and was responsible in great part for how wonderful a person he turned out to be.
shirebound
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
What an amazing universe you're crafting, Larner!
One of starlight and one of sunlight
My goodness. What a perfect description, and I never thought before about the extent to which they were *both* taught by Bilbo.
Author's reply
I'm so glad you appreciate it, Shirebound. Thanks so much for the review!
Radbooks
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
I like the interactions between Gilraen and Bilbo and the comfort that she seems to draw from him. Of course he is so much older and has a lot of wisdom to draw on. Gandalf and his surprise and delight on seeing Estel was priceless and then him talking with her. I loved how he reassured Gilraen that because Iluvater had told her it would be done, it would happen and she need to rest in that. But of course she still has such a hard time - who wouldn't? ;) And then I laughed at her sarastic comment about why not the perian - at least I took it as a sarastic comment because I'm sure she couldn't believe her sons would be hobbits and not men. Anyway, it was much enjoyed as usual!
Author's reply
Yes, I think her comment about her lost sons being born as Periannath was sarcastic. And I think that no one would speak openly of Aragorn for fear that somehow Sauron might find out he existed ans where he was hidden.
Glad you are still enjoying it.
harrowcat
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
*You are teaching beyond the white spaces in the margins.* Oh yes Larner. And long may you continue! The idea that even Gandalf didn't know who Estel was came as a complete surprise to me but the evolution of that scene was wonderful.
Author's reply
Thank you for both the inspiration and the compliments, Harrowcat! Of course Gandalf ought not to have been fully aware--the secret is best kept when the fewest possible know. Glad you enjoyed the chapter.
Baggins Babe
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
What a beautiful and well crafted story this is! I love your portrayal of both Gilraen and Bilbo, who has clearly grown and changed as the result of his adventures. I can't wait for the next chapter.
Author's reply
Wouldn't a good part of Bilbo's own adventure be a prelude to preparing the next generation for their?
Thanks for the feedback.
Tigger
· 12 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
Poor Gilrean. There really isn't very much we know of her, but it had to be heartbreaking to suddenly be uprooted from all she knows and her family at a time she needed them the most, to journey and then stay in Rivendell for the sake and safety of her son. Then to have so many rules and restrictions on what she can do or say regarding her son and his birthright. No wonder she unloaded as much as she could to Bilbo.
And then for Gandalf to realize the way he did about who and what Estel was. I can imagine quite clearly how delighted the look on his face was. His talk w/Gilrean in the garden was wonderful. To give comfort to her and also to assure her the spirits of her two sons will go where they should go. I can't imagine the bittersweetness that knowledge would bring.
You're doing a fantastic job w/this so far. Looking forward to more!!
Author's reply
Yes, it would be very bittersweet, knowing she will not watch the growth of the other two children who should have been her children. And Gandalf would be as surprised as everyone else as to Aragorn's survival as Estel.
So glad, Tigger, that you are enjoying this. Thanks for the feedback.
Dreamflower
· 11 July 2005
· Chapter 2: Promise
Amazing. You have such original ideas, and they really make one think. To know that Gilraen should somehow divine Bilbo's future role as a teacher of her lost children, and that Gandalf is beginning to see the shape of it.
Author's reply
Am glad you find them thought provoking, Dreamflower. They are beginning to perceive, and yet are still not quite believing, I fear.
Kitty
· 11 July 2005
· Chapter 1: Loss and Shirefolk
Oh, another fic, and so soon after your last! *beams happily* I had started to have withdrawal symptoms - I fear you have badly spoiled me with your daily updates! And this one has a quite interesting thema.
I loved the first meeting between Bilbo and Gilraen and his view of how his adventure and his status as bachelor will be seen in the Shire. And I loved Gilraens dream about her lost sons and how they will be born somewhere else.
Another lovely part was how Estel played with his imaginated brothers and how he not only hunted and fighted, but healed as well. And Elrond was very nice and understanding.
I look forward to more!
Author's reply
I'm glad you appreciate the theme. It's heartening. And remembering my own imaginary playmates when I was a child, I thought it very likely Estel would do much the same.
meckinock
· 11 July 2005
· Chapter 1: Loss and Shirefolk
This was a really delightful look at Bilbo. His encounters with Gilraen and Estel were wonderful,and it was interesting to see Rivendell through the eyes of an interested outsider. Gilraen's anguish over her lost children was an intriguing twist. It's hard not to speculate about where these two lost ones might pop up again. In the meantime, Estel seems to have a vivid imaginary world going. Bilbo is wonderfully sympathetic to the loneliness of an only child, and I laughed when Elrond, told about his latest adventure, calmly inquired as to whether he'd done a good job patching up his imaginary playmates.
Author's reply
Yes, we see all of Estel's studies sort of reflected in his play, including the healers training. So glad you are enjoying it.
Radbooks
· 10 July 2005
· Chapter 1: Loss and Shirefolk
A new story so soon after you finished your last one! I'm very excited and I really enjoyed this first chapter. I loved the meetings between Bilbo and both Gilrean and Estel, oh and then with Elrond. I liked the scene with Gilrean and her 'meeting' Iluvatar and him explaining what he was going to do - you could feel her anguish and his reassurance of his caring for all of them and that he had it all in his hands. Even though it was very difficult for her, at least she was able to have knowledge that it would ultimately work out for Aragorn. I was wondering if this story would be going on into the time when Aragorn was older - like up until he meets the hobbits or sometime later into his life. I know we had 'talked' at one point during your last story about the story Aragorn told the hobbits about how the rangers discovered who he was and I thought you had mentioned at that time that it might make an interesting story. Well, maybe you don't want to give that much of your story away at this time, but I was curious! :) Thanks again for starting a new story so soon.
Author's reply
I briefly touch on Aragorn's time as a new recruit, but just barely do so. The story is mostly looking at Gilraen and Bilbo, together and singly, I think.
But am glad you are enjoying it. Thanks!
harrowcat
· 10 July 2005
· Chapter 1: Loss and Shirefolk
Ah! *deep and satisfied sigh*. Great beginning Larner and the immediate attraction between Bilbo and Gilraen was perfect - cemented by the exchange of information dear to the heart.
And now you have me wondering about possible spiritual and emotional connections between Bilbo and Elrond. How do they both react,as foster Fathers, to Sam, Frodo and Aragorn coming to Rivendell and then setting off on the quest?
Thank you for the intro tag; I am very honoured. How did you subdue the other Nuzgul to nurture this one first? Only tranquiliser darts I hope!
Author's reply
Glad you like it so far, Harrowcat. This one didn't indicate it would be as long and complicated a story as the other one, who is purring with the cats as I work on its story as well. At least it is out of the bag of cat sand and into the computer now.
Dreamflower
· 10 July 2005
· Chapter 1: Loss and Shirefolk
What an interesting premise. I know that I am looking forward to more. I have been missing your stories since you finished the last one.
I really like your Bilbo; so curious and intelligent, and yet still very hobbity. I love his frank admission that it was only pride that stung him into going along with the Dwarves. And his observations of the child Estel are very astute.
Oh, boy! *looks forward to updates from Larner now*
Author's reply
I always loved how Bilbo decided to go with the Dwarves mostly to prove them wrong when they characterized him as "an excitable little chap" and so on. I could see myself seeking to prove myself in much the same way. But I wished to also explore how he went from the reader of adventures to the one who prepared Frodo and Sam for their own adventure. Also, as I'd described him before as one who'd begun sharing the knowledge and wisdom of Rivendell with his various cousins and so on via copying and binding books, I wanted to see how he'd begun that project--and this is what came out.