Reviews (72)

Author's reply

Funnily enough, both the Ancient Mariner and the Voyage of the Dawn Treader were in my mind here! Not that I've read either of them for years - but the influence remains! There is a difference, I think, between Feanor, his sons and the oath and Earendil's quest. Intention, perhaps. Earendil did leave his sons at home with their mother in a supposedly relatively safe haven. But they were tiny and in need of their father. Feanor, on the other hand - well, his sons were adult and could have refused to take his oath, I suppose, but he bound them to an eternal commitment and then led them into the First Kinslaying - took them to Arda and burned the boats so they couldn't go back for their kin. Perhaps it's that Earendil's mission was generally humanitarian (elfitarian?), whereas Feanor's was selfish - the defeating of Morgoth being, to my mind secondary to revenge for Finwe's death and, most particularly, getting the Silmarils back. But you're right - knowing what we do about what happened to Elros and Elrond, his words are ironic.

Author's reply

I'm drowning in chapter 10 and I think the Valar just don't look at time like other people. Even elves are aware of the passage of yeni - but not the Valar. (Sometime they just seem a bit spoilt brattish to me for transcendent beings of omniscient power.) The Doom of the Noldor - if aimed at the guilty, it would seem fair enough, if rather heavy handed, but most of those who followed Fingolfin were guilty of nothing but a desire to move out from under the paternalistic care of uber-beings. (Tolkien's Catholicism shows rather at times, I think.) I can't admire the Silmarils too whole-heartedly. Not evil, any more than any jewel, but perhaps just too much for most people. Feanor isn't my favourite elf, even before Alqualonde - just too self-centred - but he could have been so much more. I don't know. I feel bad for him. Abandoned by him mother, feeling rejected by his father, heavy-handed treatment by the Valar - he was one crazy, mixed-up elf. And the flipping Silmarils just sat there and scintillated and made themselves objects of desire. Yes. You, Earendil, will find out how it is to fly. To the point where your little tootsies will crave the opportunity to rest themselves on terra firma. And as for the crew . . . . . (censored.) Thank you for commenting!

Author's reply

Why 1597? I suppose I could investigate the significance, but it seems simpler to ask. Sit in a comfy chair, drink coffee, enjoy plumbing. All other things that were missing from 1597, too. I'm glad you like the sitting around and talking! I like doing that - and writing from several people's view means I can offer all my thoughts without having to come to any good conclusions! Yes, the Silmarils. Very hard one. They weren't evil in themselves, but they seem to have aroused a possessiveness in those who held them that was definitely bad news. The shades of grey and inconsistencies - not to mention all those books of background, throw-away information - are what makes this such an exciting world to play in. There isn't really any compulsory story when Earendil is at sea. There are about five threads where Tolkien outlined stuff, but it is contradictory and little more than a list of ideas. The Sleeper in the Tower of Pearl being Idril is one of them - I put Tuor with her, since it seemed the best way to have them survive until the time comes to decide what to do with them. The whole story of Earendil is quite sad, really. A triumph, in a way, but sad too. And you have to feel for them - isolated in their corner of Valinor, flying Vingilot, cut off from their children - and knowing that they will not see Elros again while the world endures. Not much more now, I think. A couple of chapters, probably. Thank you for reviewing. Now get some rest.

Author's reply

This is going to be painfully long. I'm at work and can't do an e-mail and I've already written a page and a half of my random thoughts. Apologies in advance. Right. Well. My musings are doubtless going to be wallowing in inconsistencies and non-Tolkien specifics and contradict loads of things, but. . . I’m not sure that immortality is something that can be taken away and replaced with a mortal life – Lúthien was half elf/half Maia and immortal. On death she would have gone to Námo’s Halls, eventually to be re-embodied, unless her Maiar half took over and she just put off her body to become spirit. Equally, mortal life cannot be returned – so, once Beren had popped his clogs, that should have been it. And playing with the rules (except for Tuor) doesn’t really happen anywhere else. Frodo and Sam – and Gimli – went to the Undying Lands, but they still died, because they were mortals. So why did it happen for Lúthien and Beren? The only reason that hits me is because they had not done something that was essential for the Fate of the World, and since they had already liberated the Silmaril, the only other thing they did was have Dior. But was their essential being changed? Lúthien was still the child of Elu and Melian, Beren was still mortal – but how many other mortals have been returned to life, produced children and then gone on to die again? (Doesn’t that, in some ways, make him more likely than Tuor to have been the one who ended up in the Undying Lands?) Maybe the suspension of the rules needed to enable Dior to be born meant that Lúthien and Beren’s continued existence challenged causality in some way, so that they had to be removed from Arda – or I can just imagine Lúthien bargaining with Ilúvatar and fast-talking (singing?) him into agreeing that, if Beren needed to be removed from the world, then so did she. For whatever reason, their return was limited and rules set on it. Despite this, the essential nature of each of them was unchanged. Dior inherited the genes of elf and Maia from Lúthien, and human genes from Beren. He had to, because the reason for their union in the first place was to bring together the first and second born. Lúthien / Beren and Tuor / Idril were designed by fate / nature / Ilúvatar to bring about Elros and Elrond and, eventually, Aragorn and Arwen. That, to my mind, makes Dior quarter-Maia, quarter-elven and half-man, (even if the man was a unique re-embodied man), because that is what he needed to be. He married an elf, so, when the time came for him to leave the Halls of Mandos, he would have been offered the choice of the half-elven – and decided to return to his body and Nimloth. Tuor is a different problem, because, as far as I know, he is pure man, but, on the other hand, Tolkien actually says that he was the only man in the Undying Lands. I suppose he could have done a Frodo – gone to Valinor and then died – but I find that unsatisfactory. Why would Ilúvatar/Tolkien go out of his way to arrange these particular cross-species marriages and ensure that they had surviving fertile offspring and then abandon them? So I am working on the theory here that Ulmo imbued Tuor with his spirit in order to make him a suitable messenger. Once he became the Vala’s messenger, Tuor was no longer entirely a man – so Ulmo was able to swing it in his favour by pointing out that Tuor was to him as Eonwë was to Manwë and he therefore needed him in Valinor. And then, there’s the balance theory. Lúthien should not have passed beyond the circles of the world, but she did, so to plug the hole, Tuor is allowed immortality in Valinor. The elves are tied to Ea while it exists – so Lúthien’s absence could have led to a – I don’t know – a hole in the space-time continuum or something, which could only be repaired by taking someone equal and opposite and using him to repair the damage. And to stop it happening again, Ilúvatar tightened up the rules. The descendants of these two elf/man + (/Maia/messenger-of-the-Valar) couples were allowed to select their race, (even Dior, the dead descendant), but later born scions of their houses only got to choose if their parents had chosen to be counted among the Firstborn. The choice of Secondborn was irrevocable on the chooser and his/her descendants. Any other elf/man pairings would result in the children being counted among the Secondborn and the parents enduring division after the death of the mortal partner (eg: Mithrellas and Imrazor). The Mortals-cannot-live-forever-in-the-Undying-Lands rule might date from the same time. Not well-thought-out, I know. I’m doing it all the wrong way – starting from a desired (or written) outcome and trying to fix the arguments to support what I want to happen while fitting it in with what Tolkien wrote. I suppose the thing is that I don’t really like the story of Beren and Lúthien much. It’s one of those tales that seems romantic – in the way of Romeo and Juliet. When you look at it more closely, there seems to be something quite nasty underneath all the marshmallow. Which is, after all, so often the way with fairy tales. Now - moving on from thoughts of mortality! I put Tuor in an enchanted sleep - but Tolkien is responsible for Idril. She was the Sleeper in the Tower of Pearl in the UT - woken by a gong rung by Littleheart who was Voronwe's son. Changed it a bit. More Sleeping Beauty in a remarkably dust-free castle. But, since Tuor was feeling his years when he sailed, and yet Tolkien himself puts him in Valinor, it seemed a good way to get him to survive the interim. And the idea of having him act as a military advisor is brilliant. The perfect role for him - and it should get him in the good books of Uncle Finarfin. I feel for Earendil and Elwing. Being the pawns of fate isn't a lot of fun. But they are true heroes. Possibly two more chapters. I've a feeling that telling the end bit might take up more space than I think. Thank you for your review. Sorry to yabber on so.

Author's reply

Thank you. I'm glad you liked it. Tuor did make it into this one, although he was unconscious at the time! I'm on Elwing's side with the Silmarils. For pure, beautiful jewels containing the perfection of the Two Trees, those three wretched stones caused a lot of trouble. On the other hand, Earendil has got to feel a bit more positive about them, because he is stuck carrying one on his brow - presumably until the world is remade. Probably not too much more now.

Author's reply

It's sort of a variation on Unfinished Tales stuff. 'The Tower of Pearl rises pale upon the Westernmost cape of the Twilit Isles' and 'here slept the Sleeper of the Tower of Pearl'. And from the earliest tales the S in the ToP was Idril. There are then various versions, I think (all this area is pretty uncertain). In one scheme the Sleeper is awoken by Littleheart's gong - and Littleheart is Voronwe's son. I am guilty of putting Tuor to sleep in the Tower with Idril - he's got to go somewhere until after Earendil gets to Valinor and the Valar decide what it to be done with Earendil's line and Tuor and Idril. And it was sung that Tuor was numbered among the Elday and his fate was sundered from the fate of men. Since he set sail because he was feeling his years, it seemed good to me to have him doing some kind of Sleeping Beauty act while he waits. I'm working on the 2 + ? = 4 theory of planning! So it's an extrapolation. And uncharted - (pun appreciated) - one of those maps with pictures of dragons and sea monsters and imaginary lands. Author Reply: I mean Eldar, of course. Why is it so difficult to spot typos before you press submit? I'm glad Elwing's arrival was dramatic. I don't think I'm terribly good at dramatic.

Author's reply

Thank you - I now feel impelled to move on to building the next chapter. Earendil is very young - in elven terms not even adult - but he is Turgon's grandson and Idril's son: Lord of Sirion and the captain of this venture. I think he has grown up to lead - and he can do it fairly instinctively, while at the same time being apparently easy-going. I don't think this was a danger they could have suspected. Apart from Ungoliant, most of the giant spider stories come (I think) from later times. But this was in one of the large number of potential adventures in Lost Tales! And I think Ulmo was probably rather pleased to rid the island of this particular visitor - and just think what good practice it was for Earendil! I am glad you like the way the characters interact. I am increasingly fond of them all as I spend more time thinking about them. The next chapter is started - and awaiting inspiration. Thank for your encouragement.

Author's reply

Thank you. I'm glad you liked it. You can't beat spiders for creepiness, really. Earendil didn't want to worry Elwing at the time - and then other, even more traumatic events rather overwhelmed this. I expect he forgot to tell her. (After all he is male!)

Author's reply

Isn't it part of the Stockholm syndrome? Where captives come to look on their captors as saviours? Mind you, in my mind Maglor was essentially a good person twisted by what happened to him (but nicer than the Black Swan), and protecting the elflings was good for him as well. Earendil might have read more into the infant pout than was really there - but you never know! Celebrian was probably better able to deal with dolphins leaping joyfully around the boat than with elves fretting over her - can't say I blame her. I imagine the mammals of the sea would probably have been attracted to elven ships. I'm not terribly keen on spiders - certainly not spiders the size of horses - and I'm glad you liked the atmosphere. I don't find it easy writing fights of any kind - and this is definitely an enemy you don't want too close! Elrond - a natural scholar and healer. There are so many potential adventures for Earendil, but I think I'm avoiding mermaids and Isles of Faery - (they sound a bit too kitsch.) I'm being selective, so there will probably not be too much more!

Author's reply

Poor Elrond had a tough time really. But then, it wasn't all jam for Earendil or Elwing in their childhoods either. Or Gil-galad really. Pretty much everybody born in the First Age seems to have had it tough. The spider is actually in one of the 93 versions of Earendil's story mentioned in the Lost Tales, where it was called . . . (paper shuffling going on) . . . Wirilome. Mermaids are mentioned too. And the Isle of Seabirds. He is brash and young - about 30-ish. So much happened so quickly for them - and then it was a job without promotion for the next couple of ages. It's probably just as well they didn't know what was coming. But it did have to be done.

Author's reply

Thank you for reading - I was rather worried that this chapter was drowning in nautical terms (- and it's hard to explain some of them, when you're not exactly sure of the nuances!) But Cirdan insisted on talking technical. I think he wanted to convince everybody that he knew all about ships. Actually what I found most difficult was answering my own questions like - how big a ship can four or five people sail? How many sails could they manage? How long could they stay at sea before needing to make landfall? - and things like that. And Gil-galad just turned up. He knew there was an important role for him here! And I reckon that - as a trainee king living with a Shipwright - he might know a lot of the terms in a vague kind of way, but get confused when they're put in sentences together with other terms. But he's proud to be a non-specialist. I kept Earendil outside pacing because I really didn't want to go too far into the details of childbirth. And he and Elwing are both very young (in elven terms) and inexperienced. I doubt whether many elflings would have been born in Sirion with the survivors of Doriath and Gondolin just recovering and the dogs of war just about to arrive. And if elflings are uncommon, twins would be even more rare. They make up about 1 in 40 human births - but I would make them less frequent among elves. And the more I think about all these characters, the sorrier I feel for a lot of them. It's OK being a hero, I suppose, but all of them paid so much for their place in history. It was a last minute realisation about the ship's name - but it just made so much sense. And isn't it the complicated detail of the setting that makes it so much fun to play in this world!

Author's reply

Don't tell Elrond, but I'm not altogether sure which birth meant more to him! Quite possibly the delivery of Vingilot, I'm afraid. I have a stack of paper now that's full of nautical stuff. And Glossaries of Nautical Terms from the Eighteenth Century. And pictures of ships. And sails. All to try to find how big a boat could be sailed by four or five people. And to try to sound as if Cirdan and Earendil know what they're talking about. Now when it comes to giving birth, I have more experience! (Although not of twins, I'm delighted to report.) Gil-Galad wasn't supposed to be in it at all - but he just wanted to get away from his advisors and have a break. And it is rather pleasant to think of him knowing Elrond and Elros's father. In some ways, it must have been a relief for Earendil to get away from the expectations placed on the half-elven descendant of Finwe - mortal? lord of elves. Must have been a draw. (I've never read any Spanish poetry. Although I did read 'El Mejor Alcalde, El Rey' when I did Spanish. A long time ago.) And it was only as I was writing the last page that I realised that the 'wing' of Elwing and the 'ving' of Vingilot was really the same root. Which is stupid really as in 'Lost Tales' the ship is actually 'Wingelot'. (And that 'lot' and 'loth' were the same, too. But I don't think Earendil would have part-named the ship for Nimloth.) Thank you! (How's the long-necked waterfowl of sable plumage? And her bunch of coots?) Author Reply: Yes, coots are water birds here, too. Slightly smaller than ducks, with a white patch just above their beaks and disproportionately large legs and feet in an interesting shade of blue. Nowhere near as beautiful, superior or elegant as black swans. At least, not in the estimation of black swans!

Author's reply

Well - a spar is pole slung across the mast from which the sail is suspended. Clinker built is where the planks a ship is built from overlap and carvel is when they butt up to each other. The things you learn writing fanfiction! I've got files now on 'The History of the Cutter' and 'How to Sail' and pictures of rigging . . . I looked at it all and decided vague was better - except Cirdan insisted on being technical here and there. I think he wanted everyone to know that he is called the Shipwright for a reason! I feel for both Earendil and Elwing - they were still children to the elves, whichever timeline you look at. And he gets sent off on an impossible quest while she is abandoned, either alone or with two small babies. I'm definitely with Glasiel here - although if he hadn't gone, and she hadn't had Elrond and Elros and the sons of Feanor hadn't come and she hadn't chosen to leap into the sea . . . Celebrian's probably right. Things happen for a reason and, looking back, you wouldn't change even the bad, because good things came of it. Maybe. I think Elwing is probably more elfy than Earendil - she's the one who chose to be counted among the firstborn, but she's still not entirely elven and her connection to her unborn children is not as strong. And then again, she's young and inexperienced - and I don't think twins are common among elves. I think Ereinion wanted to come along and say ignorance of the sea is no bad thing. And I shall promptly and with relief forget all those bits about different rigs.

Author's reply

I have a wad of paper now, with titles like 'A History of the Cutter' and 'Nautical Terms of the Eighteenth Century'. And a picture I found of a schooner called the Mary Barrett, that sank in 1908 with four hands rescued, and a snippet from the 1881 census that shows that this 83 foot long vessel had a crew of five. I tried only to use bits I understood - and as few of them as I thought the Shipwright might bring in to conversation. I have a sneaking feeling Earendil was more excited by the ship. More nervous possibly about the arrival of his sons - which just shows he was missing out on the family's tendency to foresight. I'm with Glasiel - they were too young and he was away too much and he was just too selfish. But, on the other hand, they weren't immortal elves, Earendil had to take the message to the Valar, the Kinslayers were coming, and Elrond and Elros had to be born before the deluge. Galadriel is a prime example of a tough elven woman - but she was somewhat over thirty or so, which is all Elwing is when the sky falls in. The more I think about Elwing and Earendil, the harder their choices seem. I didn't know Gil-galad was planning to show up until he did. But I'm glad he came along. I'm happy he came over as funny and gallant.

Author's reply

The sea tends to dominate much of the rest of Earendil's life - until he starts taking Vingilot across the sky, at any rate. I don't think I would willingly return to the ocean at this point, but Earendil has heard Ulmo's voice and has not been given any choice in the matter. Poor Voronwe. Earendil is still such a kid - he's only in his twenties, which, to an elf, is barely dry at night. And his reaction makes me think of theme parks - and kids loving what makes adults feel nauseous. Although I suppose it's just as well that the Mariner doesn't get sea-sick, considering that I don't think Ulmo would let this son of elves and men decide to stay home with his wife. Which is a shame really - they could have done with a few years of peace, harmony and child-rearing. I can't help but feel sorry for Elrond's whole family, really. Both ancestors and descendants - they may have had centuries of peace at times, but they were the chosen of the Valar in some ways and they weren't going to be left to live happily. And even their rewards don't always seem that great - I don't know that I would have wanted to be Elwing in her White Tower, or Earendil spending every night for two ages carrying out a task that isolated him from all other elves. Thank you for reading and reviewing. Earendil will be back on the water soon - but first he needs to sort out a few things on land.

Author's reply

I couldn't quite see why it was that Celeborn didn't care for young Elwing - she was, after all, his brother's granddaughter and he was her closest kin. So it seemed logical that it was Galadriel's presence that made it impossible and that he wouldn't want to take her from those who made her feel safe. For Earendil and Elwing to have married in their twenties, they must have grown at more-or-less human speed - but they would have been treated as young elves and probably acted as humans younger than their years. (I must make sure Glasiel comes into some later chapters, too.) And both E and E were children who had grown up through times of trauma. They probably both needed security and were likely to grab at whatever offered it. I think Earendil might have been back from his voyages after the twins' first year - but he wasn't around consistently. (The history tends more towards imagination from here. The Lost Tales offer some possibly scenarios, some of which I have ruled out instantly (eg the rape of Elwing) and others which seem - well, a bit fairytale. I think I know where chapter 6 leads, though.) (And I do think that Galadriel gets a lot of stick for being Noldor and daring to behave as if she is the equal of males. And because Tolkien did end up with her filling that rather Marist role.)

Author's reply

Poor Maeglin. Not the most normal of elves - but not the most normal of upbringings. And so he loved Idril - and first cousins were not allowed to smooch, but then first cousins once removed seem to be OK. Of course he couldn't take 'no' for an answer - but he was tormented by Morgoth and I'm not sure how many elves could stand up to that without going mad. The fall of Gondolin is a tragic story - but nearly everything that happened in the First Age is bad! A refugee childhood must have left Earendil very frightened of being left - which might account for why he felt the need to chase after Tuor and Idril when they sailed off into the sunset. (But doesn't account for why he abandoned his sons.) I'm glad you liked the chapter.

Author's reply

I have a sneaking hope that his love for the twins might be the thing to provide an eventual redemption for Maglor. He never seems to have been quite as keen on the whole oath/kinslaying/Silmaril bit as the other sons of Feanor. And yet he also seems to have been the one most likely to feel guilt. I can imagine Celebrian casting her eyes to the sky as she rattled on, trying to keep some kind of conversation going among three elves who were just staring at each other as they attempted to bring together past horrors and present tranquillity. If you are a long absent parent hopeful of reconciliation with an abandoned son, you would be very lucky if that son happened to be Elrond. Thank you for commenting.

Author's reply

It probably helps you to put your insecurities aside when you are over 6000 years old and you know that you have until the end of days to work on them. But Elrond is essentially a very kind-hearted person - when I think what it must have cost him to act as a foster father to Isildur's heirs over hundreds of years - knowing he was taking these boys and educating them to grow up and old and be replaced by the next generation, yet still to care for them all. Taking Aragorn when he was so young must have been even harder - I can see there would have been a relief in seeing him come to kingship, were it not for the fact that Elrond then lost his daughter to Aragorn and mortality. In fact, all Elrond's family (and most of the other elves, come to that) had a pretty raw deal. Earendil and Elwing seem particularly badly off: they were only about 30 when the sons of Feanor arrived and they were divided from their sons - and then they were stuck with what sounds grand until you think about Elwing in a White Tower on the edge of nowhere flying out to greet Earendil as he returned from sailing the night sky. EVERY night? For two ages? And who was there with them? What interaction did they have with other elves? From the sound of it, not much. But they are a special family - and they are strong. I'm sure they will work out their difficulties.

Author's reply

Well, I got the feeling that Ulmo knew what game he was playing. But he didn't make it a command for Tuor and Idril to get together, so maybe he was just giving them a shove in the direction he wanted them to follow. But then - he wasn't really involved with the doings of Doriath (as far as I can recall). So maybe there was chance involved as well as fate and the machinations of this particular deus ex machina. And then, he has to send Earendil back, because it's pretty important to the fate of Middle Earth that he gets round to begetting Elros and Elrond. Have you been reading the next chapter? (At the moment, all half a page of it.) Thank you. I am deeply flattered. So flattered that I'll go and write some more.

Author's reply

Thank you. I'm glad you approve! I like touches of humour - they are needed to lighten the mix. Or it could all become rather depressing. Elrond and Earendil are moving towards each other cautiously. I don't think Earendil will ever become Elrond's father in the nurturing sense - he wasn't there at the key times and Elrond had other care providers, plus he is too old to need that kind of father - but they can be friends.

Author's reply

Thank you. I can get a bit heavy handed with images at times - though I did extend the bear one! The trouble is, they just don't like being left out. Voronwe has had experience of Ulmo - and survived, so I think he knows to listen carefully and make sure to do as the Valar demands. Earendil and Elrond are both slightly needy, I think, from the losses they have suffered - it's great to have an adar who is a star, but it's not quite the same as having him there to take you fishing. And it's good to know that your sons grew up to hold great positions - but there must be an element of grief in knowing that someone else was responsible for providing the love and guidance. But they are each proud of the other - and their relationship will grown. Just not, really, as father and son. Equals, I suppose.

Author's reply

I'm glad you liked it - it is definitely getting trickier to do as it moves more into Ulmo's realm. My knowledge of the briny is definitely, shall I say, limited - and mostly courtesy of Arthur Ransome and the odd movie. Also trickier to do as there seem to have been about ten different versions of the story, some of which are decidedly not going to make the cut. (Anything with the word 'faerie' in it is probably barred.) Yes, they are stinky names to keep typing! I've got Earendil on auto correct - and put Voronwe with an accent into the dictionary, so I type it without the accent and then run through and correct it to the dictionary version. But I am wishing I hadn't decided to start adding the accents to words! I think maybe Celebrian and Elwing need to appear in the next - it's interesting how suddenly you realise connections between people that are quite different from the usual ones - like Elwing's mother and Celebrian being first cousins. I wonder if Nimloth looked anything like Celebrian? And Cirdan must have known Earendil really quite well. I'm glad you liked the Elrond the Lore-Master touch. I nearly added a bit more there, but didn't, because it spoiled the flow of the words. This is fun to write - but I've got about four other stories making demands at the moment and this needs more thought, so can get sidelined in a busy week. But I think I know where the next chapter is going, so it might not take as long to arrive as this one did. With luck. Thank you for reviewing.

Author's reply

Thank you. There will be more - he might actually put to sea at some point. And I've just this second realised that he will have to put his case to the Valar. Oh dear, that sounds a bit taxing. I'm glad you like Earendil and Elrond. I think they deserve a good relationship, even if it can't really be a father / son one.

Author's reply

Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it.