Reviews (110)

Author's reply

You know, Dolgailon was the very last character added to this story. Originally most of his part in this and future chapters had been slightly different and was Aradunnon's. Then as we edited these chapters, we thought of some things that we could add to make it better and we realized the whole thing would work better with a separate character. So Dolgailon was added. I was really hesitant to do that because the cast of OCs for this story is outrageous even if you limit it to the OCs with fairly large roles--if you look at the whole list of people named just once or twice in minor roles I bet it has 100 people. And then you add the canon characters and it's awful. But I'm glad I did it. And as I've posted this, I've come to really like Dolgailon. Oh well. I have written his fate. Like I've said, very few people are going to Valinor on a boat. Mirkwood is a dangerous place. Can you tell I like teasing you? Dolgailon needs protected from loving adults right now more than he needs protected from me. My parents always seemed very straight-laced when I was a kid. Then I went to the same college my dad went to and I heard The Truth. It was horrifying. I will never forget how shocked I was. I think Aradunnon and Amoneth are a lot of fun. Good healthy people to have around to remind you to relax. But I couldn't manage them all the time. :) I had a lot of fun writing the royal manipulation scene. I really do think Thranduil's wife would be able to play him like a harp after almost 2000 years and given the fact that he would just be completely smitten by her. And I find that a lot of fun to contemplate. Thranduil involved in the nursery is good for several reasons--the heavier the Shadow hangs over Mirkwood, the more he needs some distractions when the day's work is done. Providing them is Lindomiel's job. And also, I think it's good training for husbands to get involved with all the baby stuff. Since elf children are nourished equally by mother and father, let it be shown everywhere. :) Besides, I also like the idea of warrior Thranduil and good King Thranduil having a softer, artsy side. Things like that can make for interesting contrasts. My conspiracy theory--you will see that you are not far off the mark on everything you said there. Keeping your enemies close is very important and Thranduil knows that. He just has no idea who his real enemy is. He'll find villagers here and there but it will be a very, very long time before he finds the root of the problem. Manadhien in all its variations in various languages is indeed a good name and is part of the significance of the last chapter's title as well. I love playing with names. Later in the story to hide her identity, our friend the Black Swan changes her name again. I had originally one name that I used there. I already searched and replaced it with the name you gave me a while back. I absolutely loved that. I love little things like that. Thanks so much for the reviews!

Author's reply

Hi Karen! Yes, Amoneth feels considerably more confident pushing back at Thranduil after nearly two millennia of marriage. But I think it is really cool that you commented on that. I wondered how people who had read the other parts would see that apparent change. :) Aradunnon and Amoneth are exactly as you describe. And I think it kills poor Dolgailon and probably most of Thranduil's family. People like that kill me too but only because I don't have what it take to be them. :) Aradunnon was born in Greenwood, never saw the horrors of Beleriand and refuses to be cowed by the Shadow in Mirkwood. I say good for him and his influence. :) Glad he's not my dad. Dolgailon...I think I'll let you wonder. I have two endings to this story and, as usual, I haven't picked which to use yet. And the beauty of this story is, the way it's structured I don't have to decide until the very last minute. I'll post a tissue warning though. Ok, battles of wits and bathing scenes...Thranduil's leggings...it would probably be best for me not to go there because reviews/review replies cannot contain warnings. But yes, I love the Elvenking and I do think he's hot. I think I would not have been thinking about baby names at that particular moment if I were Lindomiel. :) And my little conspiracy theory.... She has made quite an attractive little package and you could not be more right that her goals and theirs are completely different. Who the old warrior is I probably won't tell you in this story, though if you figure out which traitor gets posted to Thranduil's staff, then you will be able to guess who the old warrior is too. But that person's name has only been mentioned in this story once and I am not sure anyone will get it right away. I will be thrilled if people do, but it won't matter if they don't. They will get it soon enough. It is meant to keep you guessing. I hope it doesn't get to annoying, but mysteries are stupid if they are immediately laid out in black and white too. :) Thanks so much for the reviews!

Author's reply

LOL!! If I had thought of it, I would have specified that the horse was a mare! I may still go back and change it. That is a hoot, and you are so correct, aren't you?! I will have to convince my husband to read this chapter to get a male perspective. :) Women do seem to just stomp over the poor men, don't they? The groom is a prop I about died laughing there! But I will let you wait to see Dolgailon's fate. As for Thranduil's guards and That Night, you are quite correct. It had to be amusing for them. If it stays in the story, which is impossible for me to predict since it is so far in the future, those same guards will give Legolas a little ribbing about the details of his conception when he is well into adulthood. That scene cracks me up still but my beta hates it (she's very conservative). Yes, poor Thranduil and the loss of his play room. 'Changes' is the title of this chapter and that is one of the changes he will face. Poor guy. Guys hate to lose their playrooms (my husband just lost his darkroom--I had enough of the stinky chemicals so I reclaimed my walk in closet). But Lindomiel is just shoving him right along, isn't she? He'll live. :) Thanks so much for the review! I think I will go make that horse a mare. :) Author Reply: I got distracted but the horse is now a mare! That is too funny. :)

Author's reply

Hmmm, who to suspect? Well, you will hear an actual name when the time comes. I will be very interested to see if anyone recognizes it. It has only been mentioned one other time. But if no one recognizes it in this story, that is fine. They will figure it out quickly in the future. But conspiracy theories aside, I am so pleased you commented on the references to art. Innocence (of childhood and peaceful elves, I suppose) versus loss (of innocence and family) is what I am playing with in this part of the story over all and the arts of the wood elves is one example of innoncence, I think. Of course wood elves are much simpler than the Noldor and the Sindar but I imagine them having a very organic type of art, connected to the forest and their surroundings. Maybe the Noldor wouldn't appreciate it, but I think Thranduil does. And I would. And I think a people being forced to focus on defense would start losing time for artsy type things. And I think that would be a real loss. So yes, these very creative influences are conflicting with an increasingly harsher reality. It is a shame. I had fun with the scene with Lindomiel and Thranduil. I can see Thranduil crushing absolutely anyone but his wife and a daughter. I think he'd just be lost against them. :) I think he will largely keep his promise. And we will see that as we go along. Thanks so much for the reviews! :)

Author's reply

Hi Brazgirl! Yes, Thranduil and Lindomiel are happy, of course. And so are Aradunnon and Amoneth. And you hit on exactly the point: we all do need some fun. Thranduil had to be talked into the joys of parenthood and I think it will be even harder to drag Dolgailon to a little fun. But Arthiel will try. :) Those elves at the end should scare you. They are bad news. :) Thanks for reading and thanks for the reviews.

Author's reply

Hi Daw. I hope you enjoyed your conference. :) The trial here was educational for me to write because I know nothing about that aspect of life either in modern times or early modern times. So I learned some stuff looking at early modern sources of info on legal proceedings (some of what I learned I am trying very hard to forget:) I'm definitely glad to live now and not in Medieval England). I had cut that part because this chap is so long and had other things in it but I did a little rearranging when FP mentioned she would like to see more of what happened in Dale. I'm glad she suggested that because it made the story better. I'm glad you didn't see the Eaterling/Elves thing coming. Surprise is good. But that will get a little more attention as time goes on. As for Marti, you're not supposed to see what she is about yet. :) You have only the most fundamental bit of info now. More pieces are dribbled out along the way (this chapter is actually the biggest chunk of info in one place in the entire series). By the time Legolas comes of age you have all the info, but only someone who really wants to sit down and think it out will put it together and I don't really think anyone would do that. Marti remains an annoying mystery until the War of the Ring and then everything is laid out for you. Even then she doesn't go away though. But this chap has the last glimpse into the past, Thranduil's or Marti's, that I wrote intending to include in this story. I toyed for a while last night with the idea of adding a few more but I think my beta talked me out of that this morning. Yes, the elflings. That is what my beta and I are debating right now. What stays and what goes for the rest of the chapters. And I am finding myself as anxious as she is for once to get to the elflings. :) You are correct that Nana is not in the opening chapter. Thanks for the reviews Daw. I really love them.

Author's reply

Yes, there is really quite a bit about our long necked waterfowl of sable plumage here--some more obvious, some less obvious. But there is still a great amount to learn. Her attitude towards the Sindar is pretty obvious at this point but being who she is (and I see her as a cousin from Celebrimbor's mother's side in the interest of not adding on to canon family trees to awkwardly) only accounts for part of her motive to hate the House of Oropher. More on that is indeed still to come. I do love Galadriel. A good deal of backstory here comes from the Second Age and Ost-in-Edhil. I loved reading all that when I was researching who our Black Swan could be. I wish Tolkien had written more on it. And yes, I can actually picture Galadriel and Celeborn banging heads (although maybe not their own) on walls when having to deal with Celebrimbors and Orophers. :) I agree that a mountain range--a nice impassable one--was definitely a Good Thing! Ahh foresight--that gift you have must account for why you write Galadriel so well. You share a common trait. :) Yes, I think we do have a son on the way. And I agree that the Elves would know very early on if not immediately the gender of their child. Surely they would be that in tune with it. That would be fascinating. But still, a year of pregnancy seems very long to me. :) I will just pretend that elves would be so wrapped up in it that they would enjoy it. Ugh! I'm glad you liked the scene with Fengel. I wanted it to not seem cut and dry. I aggree that a lot of Men would have been more likely to believe their own kind over the word of an outsider Elf who admitted to going into Mannish territory and killing people. I think there was potential for serious trouble there. Fengel however, seems to have a liking for Elves and enough sense to look for evidence because he still has to deliver justice. But he definitely had a presumption of guilt from the begining. The Northmen just escaped slavery under the Easterlings. He probably remembers those dark times though he would have been very young. But he is definitely very suspicious of them. And canon tells us that's a healthy fear because in 4 more years they are going to launch an all out attack against Rhovanion and Gondor. But you are right that Hallion is wise to be concerned as well and I think you are demonstrating that power of foresight again when it comes to looking for the involvement of dark-haired ellyth. :) Thank you for the well wishing and the review. I'm very glad people do not seem to have been too put off by the 3 week hiatus. And I just love the reviews on this site. :)

Author's reply

Hi Karen, Thanks for the review and I'm glad you enjoyed it! I think you are right that this announcement did surprise pretty much everyone since Thranduil's been saying 'no way' for so long. All night...a very fun night, I imagine but I agree with you--I doubt I would have bothered with breakfast, except I think Lindomiel wanted to tell everyone. :) I'm glad you liked the trial. I had fun researching how that type of thing goes. I didn't want it to sound like 'Law and Order' or an OJ transcript but I don't know wnything about law, so that was an education. I think your suspicions about the elves' connection to the Easterlings are probably correct. :) I like these memories in these stories too. I originally included them because I wanted to show how I saw a major event in Thranduil's childhood--the dwarves' attack on Menegroth and the death of his cousin/loss of his own innocence so that I could contrast that with some events in Legolas's life later on. And I had this last one to reveal a bit more about the "Black Swan," as she has been dubbed, and her connection to the House of Oropher. So, this was actually the last one that I originally wrote for this story except a very short one in the epilogue. But when I was editing this story before posting it and I started re-reading all this stuff (which was actually the first part I wrote--this series originally started here) I really got into the flashbacks so I wrote some more First and Second Age stuff about Oropher that is turning into another series. I am thinking about putting a few more of those scenes in here. Anyway...you can tell from that very long run on sentence why I have not been posting--I can understand that sentence; how 'bout you? :) I'm glad you liked the father/son talk. It's very different from yours but Thranduil and Aradunnon are very different. Thranduil will hit the ceiling in just a few stories when confronted with a similar discovery, so you are very correct! :) PS: Marti/Manarindë/Manadhien aka the Black Swan is supposed to be a bit confusing so you have nothing to worry about. But your Quenya/Sindarin is good enough for you to know that you are dealing with both languages and that is more than I would have gotten if I hadn't written this thing. I like playing with names. In this case, they all are the same name, the first two Quenyan and the last--the one she'll stick with for a while--is its Sindarin adaptation. And thanks for the well wishing. I was truly afraid that after a three week hiatus, most everyone would have forgotten this story so your encouragement in reviews has kept my spirits up. :)

Author's reply

Hi French Pony. You've done it to me again. :-) I think your senses are correct and that really made me laugh. Yes, the 'morning after' is always something of a Situation. :) There was actually a bit more teasing along those lines in that dialogue but it got cut as I looked for anything that I could remove from this super long chapter without taking out things that needed to be there. It may have been over the top anyway, but you made me giggle when you brought it up. And I do think Lindomiel and Amoneth will have fun being pregnant together. A year! Ugh! Glad I'm not an elf. That trial was actually written but cut (since this chapter is so long and there was some other stuff here that I moved to later chapters). But since you mentioned in another review that you'd like to see the results of the stuff in Dale, I fished it out of my 'cut' document and put it back rather than just summarizing it in dialogue. I'm glad you mentioned it because I like it better this way. I agree with everything you said there--Dolgailon is being especially careful because he's a little concerned and Fengel definitely wouldn't pass the USA bar exam. I had fun doing the trial scene because I know absolutely nothing about law (Anglo-American / continental / modern / early modern / whatever--I know nothing). So I looked into some legal stuff from some medieval Spanish sources that I have easy access to. Holy Cow! Was that a fascinating education! I decided the ME legal system was definitely not going to be quite that severe but I didn't want it to be modern USA either. So I looked at the few instances in canon that we get to see anyone pass judgment on anyone (there's quite a bit in the Silm, actually) and this is where I landed . :) I think a 'B' by modern standards was pretty generous of you :) but I also think the traitors did get enough of a chance to hang themselves--literally. Thanks so much for the reviews! I was really afraid that after three weeks, people would have forgotten this little story all together so it means a lot.

Author's reply

Hi French Pony! I think you are seeing that training exactly as Thranduil is. A sort of, 'What are we doing here? Get them trained and get them out there.' And that is exactly what modern armies do and have done for about 300 years. For that matter, that is how pre-gunpowder armies worked as far as the average soldier went. When there was a major offensive, they just pulled those poor fools out of the fields and if they were lucky someone handed them a weapon before they marched them towards the enemy. And Thranduil is right to a large extent--adults who have been hunting for thousands of years would not need much training to use that bow. Ten years is way too long. Dolgailon's looking at it from another point of view more centered around his generation--younger elves, barely of age, do not handle even their bows so skillfully yet. Especially under the pressure of battle--deer don't shoot back but orcs do and they are scary. And I doubt any of the Silvan elves handle swords particularly well since that is not a weapon they were known to have in abundance. I think Dolgailon is looking at the training from the point of view of a squire training for knighthood from his master--he is thinking of a more complete, overall training. There is more to being prepared for battle than knowing how to handle a hunting bow / understanding the basics of swordwork. There is having a grasp of self defense (hunting doesn't require that), tactics, command, etc...all the stuff he names. Kind of a 'the stuff you learn in fours years of ROTC vs the stuff you learn in six months of basic training.' And I figure elves live long enough that they have time to dedicate to training thoroughly. But I still think Dolgailon's plan is a little idealistic and needs to be cut back as Thranduil pointed out. In other words, I wanted to leave some room to show the compromise they reach later. It will be more than Basic Training but less than what Dolgailon wants. I've been through the equivilent of 'Basic training.' It's pretty basic all right when you are getting shot at the first time. I think elves have time to do better than that. :) I think it's interesting that you got the impression from that discussion that Mirkwood is truly deep in their slow defeat against Dol Guldur. I am not certain I intended to imply that but looking at the date here, I suppose they would be reaching that point. It is 1940. In 1975, Arnor falls, seemingly showing the rising strength of Sauron (of course, Angmar falls immediately too). In 1981, Khazad-dum releases the Balrog, Celeborn and Galadriel come to Lothlorien and things become even more dangerous in the neighborhood. I imagine things would be at their worst right before the Watchful Peace begins and that is only a little over 100 years off. So things are getting very heated I think. That is true. I like your comments about training children and the memory of Ninglor. In the original version of that dialogue, Engwe pointed that out to Thranduil when they were arguing about "You were trained as a child..." but I cut it because I just couldn't see either Engwe or Thranduil casually arguing that. But it does play a role in Thranduil's final decision on this training program and again later when he has to decide if he's going to permit Legolas to take this training. I also liked your comment about 'there are many ways to love the forest.' Exactly. Those two are arguing from completely different perspectives caused by their generation differences / life experiences. They are both right to some extent. But yes, Thranduil finally decided to do the Deed. Thank heavens for that. :) Thank you for the reviews, French Pony. :)

Author's reply

*Big grin* I'm glad you liked that. I had so much fun including that. It was a last minute add when I was re-reading before posting. Originally, they just kind of went out to the lawn. Then I remembered Thranduil saying to Lindomiel once that the minstrels sang songs about Aradunnon and it just went down hill from there. I had a moment of fun and decided to include it. So I am very pleased you liked it. :)

Author's reply

Yes! I'm glad you liked poor Dolgailon's horror. :) I had fun with that whole scene. I enjoyed trying to imagine what it would be like to know someone as a beloved uncle, one you are fairly close to (a second father, of sorts), and then have to see that uncle in such a different light--a scary one. Poor Dolgailon. He really feels strongly about that training program but he's just not sure how the King's council works. I think he ended up handling it pretty well. :) I'm glad you liked that scene. My beta suggested cutting it pretty drastically but this is one I held out on and posted it my way. I think that turned out ok. And yes, Thranduil finally took the irrevocable step! I am sure Lindomiel is relieved. :) Poor Engwe, indeed. That is one of the things I intend to show here--the reason behind his crustiness, even if after all these years he should probably give it up a bit. I wrote this scene a long time ago trying to figure out who Thranduil was before I wrote the story as a whole. I thought if he was alive in Menegroth, he saw something--there is no way you could escape a fortress without seeing something. And I thought everyone there probably lost someone. So I had Thranduil lose a cousin. Then as Engwe took shape, I thought about how that must have affected him. Thus his deep seated hatred of dwarves. He definitely should not generalise but that is easier said than done for his personality. He does just lump all dwarves together. And, *grin*, I'm not sure Engwe would agree that most elves are alright, either. I don't think he loves the Noldor particularly for their part in the destruction of Doriath as you will also see. In fact, I'm not sure Engwe likes many things. Sad, really. This whole chapter is indeed a very seminal moment for Thranduil. He does things that will have a major impact. More things than just conceive a child. I'm so glad you liked this chapter. It is an important one and since I really ignored my beta's advice on it, I was worried about it. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

Yes, I love tender little moments for Thranduil and his wife too. Poor guy has been through a lot and he deserves them. :) And I really think he must have been a great husband and father who just fiercely loved his family. I'm glad you thought the discussion of the military training was ok. It was one of the scenes my beta was strongly in favor of cutting significantly because she thought it seemed disproportionately heavily weighted in this chapter (almost 1/3 of the whole chapter to a discussion). But on this one, I put my foot down for two reasons: I wanted time to show a little of Dolgailon's personality and that scene was it and also, though it looks like a trivial point here, that training program is going to motivate some major plot points about forty years in the future of this story so I need to lay some ground work with it starting here. So it stayed. And the attack on Menegroth--I'm glad it surprised and shocked you. I had implied in other chapters that Engwe's son and wife met a bad end but I'm glad it surprised you to see it here. You know how poor Thranduil felt seeing it. And Engwe. It would definitely leave an impression on them both. And I'm glad you said that about Dieneryn. I liked her in that scene too. I felt for her, desperately trying to keep Thranduil safe. That's why I had her strike down the dwarf's axe. Glad you liked it. Thank you so much for the reviews!

Author's reply

I'm glad to hear the Menegroth scene was gripping. That particular memory will have significance a few times in this story as it goes along (I mean surely something like that would be a defining moment in your life if it happened to you and that is what this series is supposed to explore--Thranduil's defining moments). It was actually one of the first things I wrote when I was trying to decide what Thranduil was like and I decided he was probably alive for the various sacks of Menegroth. It's been re-written and stuck into a bunch of places but it finally ended up here for a number of reasons. Anyway, I'm glad it was gripping. That was definitely what I was going for. And I'm glad you like Dolgailon. He will have an important role and I want people to get to know him (thus the time to show who he is). Thanks for the review. Have fun with (or at least enjoy anticipating the completion of) your scholarly writing. Somehow I think doing that must seem really trying after writing so many fun pieces of fanfic. And thanks so much for the reviews. They mean a lot.

Author's reply

Hi Karen! Thanks so much for the review! I really appreciate the feedback. I read a lot of Medieval drama from Spain which is all largely political intrigue so I think that's why my stuff focuses on it so much. I mentioned in a few other times in review answers that I really wonder sometimes how much of the political stuff people can take so it is very helpful to hear opinions. :) My beta is very good for me because she is very different from me. She likes action and moves along very quickly (her teaching area is 20th century lit and film). I like character pieces and I like lots of little details and I'm a much slower mover (my teaching area was Medieval lit and culture). I need someone to move me along sometimes. But seeing how people are reacting in reviews helps us find a good balance when cutting/expanding portions of the plot. I've recently been having a lot of fun reading articles on improving writing skills for fictional writing, so I'm looking at this story more critically and feeling pretty open to thoughts about it. I love this kind of stuff. Boy, I have just been babbling in review answers recently... Anyway, I'm glad you like the characters. I also like Thranduil's mother and other characters that provide ties to Oropher and that whole age/set of experiences. Thranduil would have to have a very complex past and it is very unexplored. Even in the Silmarillion. I am editing the next chapter of this story right now and it makes reference to the fall of Menegroth so I just went back and re-read that part of the Silm to be certain I didn't say anything stupid--do you realize the whole description of the fall of Menegroth (from Thingol's death to Elwing's flight to Sirion) is only 20 paragraphs? There's a lot of potential there for expansion and I love that kind of stuff. That lack of info is what drew me to explore the Elvenking. :) And, yes, little Miss Angry Spite is back along with a gang of miscreants that she has managed to assemble to cause some trouble--as if the Woodland Realm needs more added to the problems caused by Dol Guldur. :) Her plans are long range, grandiose and inspired by deeds long past that we have only seen the slightest hints of as yet. Though we'll learn a little bit more soon. I am glad to hear that you are enjoying this story and I hope you continue to do so. I appreciate any comments of any sort that people find time to make and I consider them a privilege. So never apologize when you don't have time to review. I know how hectic things can be. I'm just very happy to hear from you whenever you have time. :) Thanks!

Author's reply

:) I think you're on a solid limb--don't even need to be a woodelf to be safe on it. :) I'm really glad to hear that about the politics/people because I like that myself but I am always in doubt of how much anyone other than me can take. I mean, I wrote this thing to explore characters I like and play with them a little. I wanted to see Thranduil's past before The Hobbit and LotR. That was about my fun to be completely truthful. The whole thing got written without any real intent to let anyone else see it so I could do that. When my friend convinced me to post it, I naturally started thinking less about my fun and more about other people's fun and what entertains them. That has been interesting for me. I've published scholarly articles, monographs and textbooks so I had a taste of reader response. But it's not the same. In academia, as you well know, someone either agrees with your interpretation of XYZ and quotes you later in their work or doesn't and refers to you in a different way. As long as your your interpretation is solidly researched and documented, you are not going to be too badly off. And I wrote textbooks which are almost guarenteed to sell to someone. Fiction is so different--completely subjective and personal. What is entertaining to me, I have found (just by talking about books and movies with friends), makes most people stare blankly at me and causes some people to run screaming. :) That's why these reviews are so important to me, I guess. Anyway, sorry. I guess I'm feeling a little introspective tonight. Went on a long car ride Cypress Gardens with my beta today and spent a lot of time debating this kind of stuff so... Thanks so much for the review Daw! And I was reading the reviews from your current story and saw you mentioned this story to someone talking about young Thranduil. It really made me smile to see that. Thank you.

Author's reply

I'm glad you continue to like the story Brazgirl. And I'm glad it's making you read fast. :) The last part isn't good, is it? Not for Lindomiel and Thranduil, anyway. And Thranduil does know it. He just isn't sure what he knows yet. But there is a lot more of that to come. Don't worry though. It never gets too dark or horrible. I just can't do that really dark stuff. That is one thing that I can't stomach. Lindomiel should have taken the hint right there, shouldn't she? :) Oh well. She doesn't have long to wait. And I think as charming as the Men find her, Thranduil is a thousand times more lost for her. :) Thanks so much for the review!

Author's reply

That is so true about keepsakes for an elf. I laugh about that at certain points in this story. I mean, you should see my house. I need a Mathom-house because my house is certainly one big collection of mathoms. On the one hand. you'd think that someone 5.5 thousand years old would not be too attached to things because he would have surely learned by then how transient things are. On the other hand, he's 5.5 thousand years old. Even if you found one thing you couldn't part with every one hundred years...you do the math, that's a lot of stuff! I laughed my head off on the 'pin him down' comment. Too true! Fortunately she does not have to wait much longer. I completely agree with you on this: Elflings clearly need other elflings with whom to get up to lots of mischief - otherwise they grow up too serious, like Dolgailon.. I think that would be true to a large extent and I intend to play with that a bit. And yes, there is more to Thranduil's little tale. It isn't included in this (originally anyway and I doubt I'll change that. But now that I think about it, there is a place in this where I can hint at more of the details--I think I will. Thank you for the idea). That story and several others did find a life of their own in the First Age thing I wrote. It was fun going back through this story and making sure I incorporated all the references in the new one. Yes, Lindomiel needs to know what's going on and thankfully the guards recognize that even if Thranduil is hesitant to. And Men touched by the Shadow, as many Easterlings were, are clearly bad news. As are Elves touched by the Shadow. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

"Dr. Evil! I didn't go to Evil Medical school for nothing." Sorry. It's early and I'm tired. My beta and I went back and forth about including that last scene actually. It's been cut more times than it stayed but ultimately it stayed. My intent with the end of this story is the same. It's all a matter of how it gets shown. Hmmm, well... I actually had the rest of the negotiations in Dale written and I cut it from the last chapter because it seemed so long. I wondered at the time if that was good idea. It wasn't a bad little scene at all. It just seemed long to me and I wasn't sure how much political 'stuff' people could take. I liked it because of how it portrayed Lindomiel. Well, what's done is done. Yes, I think the King's Guards know that Lindomiel needs to know what's going on too. Sheltering people is tempting but rarely turns out the way you want it to (in fiction, anyway). I laughed when you said, "the longer he dickers and delays, the more chance there is that Lindomiel will simply assume control of the situation." That is how I see Lindomiel too. And I agree most of his family is pretty much the same, as I have made them. I see Thranduil as a pretty straightforward person and I think the people like that can appreciate other people like that. Ultimately Thranduil has be able to make the final decision, but it's always best to do that after hearing differing opinions, as you said. And history proves him to be a good King so I guess he had what he needed. :) I think Dolgailon is an adult and has his own place in his family's world and his uncle's kingdom so he could take a sibling. Also, I think he's relieved to find out ada isn't here to give him more grief. But I remember how I felt when Mom and Dad said they were planning on another kid. I was NOT happy. Fortunately for selfish me, Mom never got pregnant again. I should probably regret that but even now as an adult, I still am selfish enough not to. Isn't that terrible?! Thankfully, Lindomiel does not have to wait much longer to make her contribution to the growth of the family. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

No, you are right--Thranduil is on desparate ground now. Poor thing. And children must be the most emotionally taxing experience on earth. And the most satisfying. But you must have them to understand that, I think. :) I completely agree with you on both of your observations about Elves interacting with Men and Elf siblings growing up so separated in years. Both of those results of Elven 'immortality' have always interested me and I've always thought there was potential in them for fun. Things are not entirely over between Thranduil/Dolgailon and the Men. But like in all of these stories, there is one plotline that has various outcomes written. The Mannish situation is the one in this story and I am completely undecided at the moment how I will let it go. So I can't comment on that except to say, you're right. I can't imagine Men would like Elven testimony very much and there are many other things that could complicate it as well. And Engwe's story is a sad one. You will see more of it in the next three chapters. I wrote a lot of that stuff just as character back story to get into their heads a little and then I decided to include some of it here when I was editing this story at Christmas time for posting (putting this stuff in is what inspired that comment I made about the First Age young Thranduil story that I made a while back. That is almost ready for posting, btw. It was easy to write because I had already decided what happens and had written some of it in outline as part of character sketches). I thought it might be nice for people to understand why Engwe, for example, is how he is. And the second to last story in this little series puts us in Aman. I made myself bawl like a baby writing it. But I love the way it turned out. I think you will like it too because I remember you saying in a review reply once that you liked happy ending for these characters in the end. It is a very happy little story. Emotional but ultimately happy. Anyway, thanks so much for the review!

Author's reply

Hi Daw! Yes, the meeting in Dale went ok. It definitely could have been worse but I really do think that the Lord of Dale would understand the how such a thing would happen. Though I just stopped to think how Thranduil would have reacted if the situation had been reversed and I'm am not certain he would have been as charitable. :) I had written the part with the toll negotiation too but it started to drag so I cut it. I liked showing Lindomiel at work but it just made that part of the chapter too long and it didn't actually contain anything that moved the plot at all. And I am happy to have Aradunnon and Amoneth back in the stronghold. It will be good for Thranduil. :) The children thing makes me think a little too. You wonder how many children there would be at any one time in a community of elves (any community, not just Mirkwood). And then when you remember we are in Mirkwood here and take into account what LaCE says about elves having children in times of peace if they can..... You wonder what it would be like indeed. On the other hand, even just before the War of the Ring the territory around Thranduil's stronghold is supposed to be still wholesome, so maybe the elves living there would still be willing to have children. And I see the woodelves as being a little defiant in that respect. A sort of 'damned if I'll let anything stop me' attitude. And, when it come right down to it, as you said, there is never a 'perfect' time or 'perfect' peace. If you want children, you have to have them. Bottom line about that for me in this story is this--when I was writing this part, I decided I wanted to know a little more about how I pictured Oropher and Thranduil's relationship to get my head around how Thranduil might be as a parent. I was also curious what Thranduil might see of himself, his father and his other family in his son. So, I wrote a little outline of Thranduil's childhood. That was when I decided he was 40 when Elu Thingol died and that sort of thing. I wrote sketches of a few things just as a character exercise. But when that was done I realized some of the things I decided about his background would color his attitude towards having children in this particular time in Mirkwood's history and some of the events that come up in future parts of the story that I had already written before I went back to write Legolas's birth. So... I decided to show him reflecting on those concerns as he and Lindomiel prepare to have children. As for there being a good number of children in Mirkwood around the time Legolas is born (in anyone's story), that is something that I can easily accept. It was very common in Medieval times for there to be population explosions when the King and Queen were having children. Maybe elves would react similarly. And there are a lot of elves in Mirkwood. Surely some would be young and having children to brighten their lives. Those are my thoughts on the children thing. It is interesting to think about and I guess since this is the story where Legolas is born, here is the place for them. :) Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

Hi Brazgirl! Thanks. Glad you liked it. I'm glad you are enjoying the flashbacks. They are 'warm and fuzzy' like this for a few more chapters but get a little more serious as Thranduil gets older in them. You will get the details of what happened to Engwe's family in upcoming flashbacks. I am happy to have Amoneth and Aradunnon in the stronghold too. Lindomiel and Dolgailon will both be surprised and thrilled, I think. :) And it will not hurt Lindomiel's campaign to persuade Thranduil to have a child that they are there. That summary...could mean a lot of things. Hmmm. :) I will continue to let you worry.

Author's reply

Too cool. You have so many cool interests. I think I like the idea of that gong. I love gongs. SOund wierd, I know. But I have always liked the sound they make, big or little. :) Thanks for continuing my education. :)

Author's reply

You will not have to guess for long. You will see what happens to Engwe's family in an upcoming flashback. He is Oropher's brother and yes, I think he is a little jealous/meloncholy about the whole thing. I intend this little backstory to explain some of his hardnosed character. Yes, Dolgailon is in for quite a surprise. I laughed a bit at the way you phrased that. You hit his reaction right on the nose as you will see in the next chapter. So right on the nose (along with another comment that you made in this review) that I had to go see if that chapter and the one after it were viewable since most of the chapters of this fic are already uploaded. :) I agree that interacting with a sibling that was completely an adult would be a very odd thing. What is that relationship like? That is one of the things that interests me about elves. And yes, Fengel is Rohirric so you get an A on the languages of Middle Earth quiz for the day. I forget where I got that name but I think I remember that it means 'noble' or something that lead me to give it to the Lord of Dale. I have a lot of trouble with Mannish names. But I figured that this early in the game the men still east of Mirkwood would not be too different from their brothers that moved west of Mirkwood and will eventually become the Rohirrim so... I couldn't resist Fengel's reaction to Thranduil and him figuring Dolgailon out enough to know that he was nervous of his uncle's wrath as well. As for the fuss over the Easterlings, it is over yet and it is the one part of this I am not entirely finished editing yet, so I think I will say no more until I am certain of exactly where that will go. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

I'm glad you liked the chapter, Brazgirl! Yes, at some point Thranduil is just going to have to relax and give in and Lindomiel knows how to make him do it. :) And you are right, I can see Dolgailon as Thranduil's son for certain. I think Thranduil is right the living in the south has put pressure on his nephew and made him very serious. I little time with Lindomiel and a few smitten ellyth in the capital will do him good and provide a little balance. :) And maybe a little inspiration for Thranduil. Thank you so much for the reviews!