Reviews (82)

Author's reply

I know exactly what you are saying. I live in the US and it is an election year here. It is really funny. I wrote this part of this story before the Iraq War and I had to cut a lot of parts because they made me sick to read them after all this foolishness in the Real World. A pox on them! :) I am glad you are enjoying this. I love Thranduil. I think he would have to be sharp as tack to lead Mirkwood through to the War of the Ring and he is making a good showing in these early decisions and debates. This chapter was my favorite to write in this story and it also made me the most nervous because there is so much potential and I know there is no way I could have exploited it all. But this story and all of its political debates is central to the overall story I am writing. Obviously, the decision to move to the caves was a major turning point in Thranduil's life with implications for his entire reign, I'd think. Or at least that will be the case in this story. :) Thank you so much for the review. It is so nice to hear people's thoughts. Author Reply: PS: As I said to Daw, we will see in the next few chapters if my friend liked the rewrites you and she inspired with those really interesting discussions in the Yahoo Group. Made for a fun Saturday of debates between me and my friend if nothing else. Thanks to both of you for the inspiration.

Author's reply

I enjoyed playing with that but I wondered about it at the same time so I'm glad you thought it turned out ok. I see Thranduil as a little suspicious and there would be too much unexplained about Gandalf. I think he'd want an explanation before he'd trust him. And I think he'd be just direct enough to go ask for one. :) But obviously they develop a friendship if Thranduil is saying the 'oftener' Gandalf visits, the better in the Hobbit. Thank you so much for the review!

Author's reply

:) Oh I am very happy that you are working on a new story and anything you need, you just do it! I am definitely going through withdawal (who coined that word? I can't remember). I enjoy the politics and trying to figure out why people made the decisions they did. Obviously they did what they did because that was what Tolkien needed to make LotR start out where he wanted it, but that just gives us room to play. It's a fun puzzle. Just my thoughts on it. There are thousands of other really good takes and a lot of good stories telling them. Now most of the debates are over and the decisions have been made. We will move on to seeing more of the reactions and results. My friend, who I have dragged down with me into the abyss of fanfiction, has the rewrites caused by your wonderful questions. If she likes them, we'll post that version. It was fun, regardless, so thanks for the weekend entertainment. And for the review. :)

Author's reply

Thanks Bodkin. And I know just what you mean about wanting to read but falling asleep that happens to me too often these days since they've been keeping us like slaves at work. When I was originally writing this whole thing and I sat down to try to think of all the things that would be involved in making the decision to move to the caves and I was really pretty happy to realize that surely one of those things would be meeting these new people in ME, the wizards, for the first time since they came when the Shadow spread over Mirkwood. Since a lot of sources (the Sim and the Appendices, for example) say that no one knew from whence they came, I wondered what that would mean. UT's essay on the Istari says they were ordered not to oppose Sauron power against power or sway wills with majesty. So what did that mean? I thought it raised some fun questions to play with especially given that I don't think Thranduil, Elrond, Galadriel and Celeborn could possibly miss seeing them for what they were and that would certainly raise expectations for someone in Thranduil's position. Anyway... I'd love to know other people's thoughts. This is a chapter I've rewritten a hundred times because there is so much it seems that could be there and I certainly could not have gotten it all. As for Elrond vs Amroth, I'm aware of that contrast but it kind of came from nowhere. When I wrote this, in the first draft I didn't have anything in the chapter discussing Elrond's reaction to Thranduil's plight. My friend who is reading this pointed that out and said it was really pretty ridiculous that either Elrond or Thranduil wouldn't say something since the both know he just came from asking Amroth for help. We decided we couldn't really see him asking Elrond. But we couldn't see Elrond not offering. So that's what we did. It all depends on your view of their relationship. I definitely think Thranduil's views of his allies are being challenged and that would be an experience for him. It's good for him. Builds character. :) Poor Thranduil. Now he's got to go face the decision he's made. Thak=nks for the review!

Author's reply

Funny how a little fanfiction and (more importantly) a little food will fix up that low blood sugar problem! :) My husband gave me another strange look when I read the part in your review about the clue stick and the pot and kettle. I never actually thought about that, but it is too true. I imagine Aradunnon thinks Thranduil has got a lot of nerve. As for Amoneth, they need to get stern about making her see some things if she is really going to become part of their family. I agree with you on Thranduil and Galadriel. They want the same thing and they strike me as being a lot alike--very strong (and strong-willed) and determined. I think they would eventually learn to respect one another even if they aren't sipping tea together. My friend who helps me with this story actually saw your review before I did and she called me up to see if I'd read it. We never wrote the scene where Thranduil discusses with Aradunnon the fact that Galadriel walked in and out of the forest unnoticed but we had a lot of fun laughing about what that conversation might be like. I think that meeting in Lothlorien must have been an eye opener for Thranduil in a lot of ways. As you said, he doesn't have much control over those borders. He isn't going to get the help he wanted from Amroth (which has to be mind boggling to him). His fear that it might be worse than orcs got a little more weight. And though I think he's definitely fishing with his comment that he can guess the source of Galadriel's magic, he is right and that woud be disconcerting. And on top of everything else, he's agreeing with two people that he just doesn't like. Yuck. Poor guy. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

I just can't help but be interested in the politics of this. As I said below, from Tolkien's point of view for plotting purposes, I know it would kind of kill the Lord of the Rings if the elves took advantage of the opportunities / alliances that presented themselves, but since they didn't, there has to be some explanation for why. I'm just playing. Also, I can't help but wonder when they figured out what they were dealing with. Tale of Years says the Wise don't even agree there is a fortification in Dol Guldur until 1100 and they think it's a Nazgul occupying it. That refusal to believe that they were dealing with Sauron might explain why they didn't kill themselves to deal with it. But I just can't make myself believe that Thranduil would not have figured out it was Sauron a lot faster. He's right there dealing with it directly and I see him as far too in touch with his forest to miss something like that. Anyway, it's fun to play with the ideas. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

Ahh, as much as I love to tease, I think I will say nothing more. :)

Author's reply

This is one of the things I never understood when you think about it. If this shadow crept up slowly--why not go out and crush it while you still can? Once Thranduil couldn't contain it by himself, it seems natural to me that he would speak to Amroth. They are neighbors and supposedly there was travel between their realms until Dol Guldur put an end to the possibility. Why didn't they ever ally to try to deal with this threat? Of course that would have rather killed the rest of the story for Tolkien... But I thought I'd play with it a little. (Wet nellie is a great expression!) I also like playing with strong personalities like Thranduil, Galadriel and Amglaur. I just think its funny. I can't help it. I think Lindomiel gave advice that was largely ignored. But Amoneth will learn. The question is, how painful will the learning process be and who will suffer most in the long run. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

I would not want to be in Thranduil's position because you could not please anyone in reality, probably. It could not be a pleasant situation. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

NPR is very educational, isn't it? And you are right about this story and the current news. I cut large portions of this because it is too close to real life and sounded like a political speech (even though I wrote this long before the Iraq War started). I could no longer stomach it. I think Thranduil does handle the meetings in this chap as well as he can and he can do that because he is handling the overall situation as well as he can. It is impossible to please everyone but he is thinking about his realm. And I think he is getting better at handling the business of being king, especially given that he is being faced with some pretty nasty situations. I would vote for Thranduil in '04! :) That is the funny thing about writing this--obviously we know they're moving to the caves. That's a done deal. No surprise. So its the process, reactions and maybe a few other ancillary things that have to provide the plot. The way this process makes the elves feel is very interesting to me. I imagine the Native Americans felt largely the same way. That's interesting to think about. I agree with you about the debate about dealing with dwarves in the last chapter and then this chapter. I wrote the negotiations with the dwarves for the weapons several different ways and I never liked them. I gave them another look this week (awful week) and I like them no better. That interaction never worked, seemed isolated where it would have been in the overall story and was anticlimactic compared to another chapter coming later. So I gave up on it. But it does disappoint me too. Truthfully, it does a lot. Perhaps I will do another rewrite tomorrow with "The Happie Dwarfe Candy and Confectionary Company" and see if I like it better. :) My friend writes comedy much better than I. Maybe I can inspire her with that... Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

I really had to laugh reading your opening paragraph--bunch of whiners! Let 'em all sit there with Sauron, I say. :) They better be glad I'm not their king! Yeah, he's got no hope of making them all happy so that might be his only comfort. But listen to people talk about real current affairs. Many people are like this. Its all me, me, me for so many folks. I think if you spent 1000 years of relative peace and were then faced with an increasingly difficult orc situation, that would have to evoke some pretty strong reactions. Everyone would have their own needs and the government could not possibly satisfy them all. That would be tough to face as a leader assuming the leader actually gave a darn about his/her people. Aradunnon has made enough progress to be spending time with Amoneth rather than drinking with his buddies. That is probably good. But you hit the nail on the head with their problems. Bottom line--they are both a little selfish (like the villagers/warriors families). Dealing with a serious situation like this is about conquering selfishness and being able to sacrifice for others. The more serious the situation, the more that willingness to sacrifice is tested. But you are right, that is why Thranduil/Lindomiel could marry fairly quickly. They both grasped each other's responsibilities. Aradunnon and Amoneth understand themsleves, just not each other. I think you can still be in love in such circumstances. The question is, is that necessarily a good thing? Something must teach them. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

Your last line made an image flash into my head--a bunch of elves/weapons inspectors in a bus going to Amon Lanc to determine if there are really WMD there. It just made me crack up. It's 6:00am and I must be a little punchy. Need coffee... You're right though. Since we know what's going to happen in Mirkwood just 50 to 100 years after the date the story started on, we know Thranduil is right to buy the weapons and build the army. They will be tested for a very long time. I like Scary!Thranduil, I have to admit. When I first read the Hobbit I pictured him as someone who could enforce his orders with merely a look. Not Evil!Thranduil by any stretch. That never occurred to me and I can't see where it comes from, but definitely firmly in control. He is indeed an absolute monarch and he doesn't require consensus. Engwe just is an equally strong (and at the same time pushy and arrogant) personality and there are a few times when he just doesn't get that he's out of line until he's firmly told that. Thranduil won't hesitate to tell him. :) Absolutely monarchy is a tricky thing though. Day trips may not be a bad idea because people do need to understand why decisions are made. I actually cut a part out of this chapter where Dieneryn makes some comments like that to Thranduil in private but it sounded like something out of the Presidential Debates (although I wrote it before the Iraq War started) so I cut it just because I didn't want to sound like I was making political statements. But building consensus is important. Even an absolute monarch needs the support of the people. Ask the French. :) Amoneth and Aradunnon have taken a large step in the right direction. They could be very perfect for one another and I hope it did come across that they truly love one another. Both are a little selfish/self-centered in certain respects though. They need to think about that. It's not necessarily an obstacle--ask my husband. :) But it will need to be addressed. Thanks so much for the review and the laugh!

Author's reply

Thanks! I'm glad you like the dialogue. It is my favorite part to write always. I'm glad the council meeting seemed tense. That was what I was going for along with a comeplete lack of black and white decisions. I definitely agree that it is nice for Thranduil to have Lindomiel. I will tell you this much straight up--don't worry about an 'evil relative attempts to overthrow Thranduil and drag Mirkwood into despair' plotline. I have read a good many of those stories and I even liked some of them and would say they were very enjoyable and well written but I have never read one that I bought. That's not to say everyone will agree with every word out of Thranduil's mouth (where's the fun in that?). They may even cause him trouble. But no family members are going to intentionally plot his demise. He has enough trouble without it coming from his family. :) Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

It was meant to be tense so I'm glad it came across that way :) Unfortunately, I have had my share of meetings like that too so it wasn't very hard to write--just imitate life. I hope he's right about that decision too but things like that are rarely ever simply right or wrong in the end, are they? They almost always have repercussions that come out on both sides. Thanks so much for the review!

Author's reply

Did the French really do that and that's why we think they're so cool now still? That was really smart on Henris' part! I'm torn about whether I see Thranduil being that savvy when it comes to things like that. On the one hand, I think the elf must have been very clever to defend Mirkwood all those years. He must have made some very good decisions and learned some adaptability. On the other, I'm not sure I see him as a particularly good spin doctor. I think he'd need someone to do that for him--like you said, maybe Hallion. Poor Hallion. He gets all the rotten jobs. And now I have a picture of an advertisement aimed at dwarves for maple syrup running around in my head. It is too bizarre and I have you to thank for it. :) My husband is looking at me with that 'I think she's cracking' look. He usually does when I'm reading your reviews. :) But 'spin' is going to be an issue when selling difficult decisions, isn't it? On that topic, as for the trees, part of the conversation that got cut from this chapter was actually just something like you suggest--putting a 'forest management' spin on the whole thing. In retrospect, that might have been a bad cut because such things are going to be important later but the chapter was so bloody long. I do think they intend to sell the finished products though. Raw materials, especially of the heartwood variety, would be impossible to transport and not as valuable, as you observed. Ooo ack! Dieneryn having That Talk with Aradunnon. Now that would have been painful and ugly. Thank heavens it didn't come to that. Yes, it was looong overdue, though its hard to imagine some version of it didn't happen repeatedly before--sometimes it takes a while and repetition to penetrate the male skull. :) And yes, I agree they need an extended courtship to see that they really do understand one another. They definitely have issues and that is why they are not yet betrothed. And yes, I chuckle every time I think about poor Thranduil mystified over the use of bear claws and teeth but perfectly willing to sell them in your story Masque of the King Stag. I burst out laughing when I read that. No, the Elves will never get that. :) Thanks for the reviews. Again, I have learned something. At the risk of sounding condescending, and that is most certainly not my intent, I bet your professors love you. You seem very well read. I always enjoyed students I could learn from when I taught.

Author's reply

I'm glad it seems interesting. It was kind of hard to work out because so much of the romance developed over the 900 odd years between this story and the last one that we don't see. So the only way to show where they are now is through dialogue (or at least I couldn't think of anything else). Now, we are together and we can follow them along as it goes into its final stages. It is a slow thing by necessity. They are not perfect people and they have things to work out. Furthermore, they are not living in a perfect world. It was definitely good that they talked. They didn't quite talk about everything they needed to discuss though, did they? I'm glad you could see both sides to the issues in the council meeting. I intended that because I want to show these are not easy choices and there isn't one obvious solution. I don't think anything involved in this developing situation would be a simple cut and dry decision for poor Thranduil and it will only get worse, it seems. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

The smoke and extinguishing fires are puzzling, aren't they? :) That's exactly what Thranduil is saying to himself right now. I wanted to work in some way to show the "Sorcerer" refered to in the quote at the top so I played a bit with one of Sauron's favorite toys--fire. The idea of magic must be very frightening--it add more seriousness to the threat than simply orcs. You would think that people with seven years of battle experience would learn to stitch up a wound. I thought that would be a basic enough skill if it wasn't too complicated a wound. But I did look into it a little to make sure--don't ever ask a nurse anything about his/her profession unless you really want an answer. The lady I asked gave me the most disgusting, gruesome explanation of suturing. I could have gone my whole life without knowing any of those details! :) Anyway, thanks for the review!

Author's reply

No, Aradunnon can't be too badly injured--he is needed for a while longer and besides, you don't know him well enough yet. The reader must know and love/hate the character before it is interesting to kill/injure them. :) <= Is that an evil grin? Yes, there was much more in Amon Lanc than they thought. One of the things that always interested me was how did Sauron just take over half of the largest forest in ME right under the nose of elves? He could have just sprung up one day but several references in UT and S say the shadow crept slowly over Mirkwood. That is interesting to me. How did the elves first discover it? How did they react? How could they--it is Sauron, even if he is weak? When did they really 'get it' and realize what it was they faced? Gandalf is the one that proved it to the world, but did the elves that lived right there understand more and sooner? It's one of those little things Tolkien left untold and it intrigues me. When I wrote this part of the overall story, I had a lot of trouble limiting myself and there is actually a lot more written than was edited to be posted. Since they originally thought it was a Necromancer, I wanted to throw a little magic in there somehow and I do think the most disconcerting thing in this situation for Thranduil must have been suspecting magic was involved. Orcs he can handle. Magic is an unknown. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. The orc supply will dwindle. But not for another 2000 years or so. But, it will be in the background of the rest of this part of the story. I think we've established what Thranduil is facing, now I want to play with how he and those around him will face it. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

I smiled over the screenplay format here. 'Dun dun dunnnn.' :) No they didn't how great was their peril and they still don't really. They'll figure it out though. The presence of magic had to be the most disturbing thing. It is harder to manage and implies a much worse enemy than orcs. I do agree that the sibling bond is strong and precious. And I like to think of Thranduil with family. Aradunnon is an important person in Greenwood. He handles the day-to-day management of Thranduil's military and does a good job of it. But most importantly to Thranduil, Aradunnon is his brother. I almost cut the women in the tree and I did cut part of it. I thought the 'ooo the forest is ominous' thing was getting a bit heavy handed. My friend who reads this was saying, 'we get it already.' That's true. But like you said, its a little different there. It is peaceful, yet it isn't. Lindomiel is experiencing something for the first time that Dieneryn is too familiar with and it has to scare them both for very different reasons. I looked at Thranduil and Ardunnon's reactions to what they are seeing/feeling in the forest. I wanted to show Dieneryn's and Lindomiel's a little too. And Amoneth--she just doesn't get it. Well, the battles are over for now. Now its time to react to what they've learned and will continue learning.

Author's reply

Thanks Daw. Since most thought Sauron was a 'Necromancer' until Gandalf proved differently, I was trying to think of some way to begin creating that impression. Sauron was probably not strong enough yet at this point to do much but I thought he might be able work with fire since it was one of his 'specialties.' And it seems to me that the Hobbit makes the fact that Thranduil has some talent in that area fairly clear. The elves' magic has always interested me because it is subtle. So I decided to play with it a little. Thanks for the review!

Author's reply

Yes, Amon Lanc cannot be a push-over. I wanted to show that they knew that it would be a tough fight (because they obviously aren't inept at warfare) and that they were still surprised (because, as we know, Tolkien says it took everyone a long time to figure out what was happening in Dol Guldur. I thought the power in the mountain might surprise them a lot and I figured I'd start showing that surprise from their very first encounter). I like the description of the forest in the beginning too. I think seeing the forest damaged (either this way by orcs or simply by the Shadow) would have been a remarkably painful process for the elves. Especially for Thranduil because he has seen so many homes destroyed and he is responsible for this one. Somewhere in the back of his mind he is already hearing a little voice...'not this one too.' What happens in Mirkwood is very sad for so many reasons. And yes--the fancy equipment and insignia and all that can be very detrimental in battle. It is a given in medieval battle tactics that one of your primary objectives is to eliminate the enemy commanders. And since commanders always fought from the front of the line to be able to see what was happening and give orders, they were always vulnerable. That is why they had guards in battle--to protect them and free them enough from the need to constantly fight so that they could concentrate a little on the overall process of the battle and give orders. It was tough to be king. :) I'll pass it on to Thranduil that you want him to stay safe. *She sighes and thinks about having a conversation with Thranduil...can I, please?* I sure hope they make The Hobbit and understand Thranduil's character when they do it. :)

Author's reply

Thanks for the double review :) Yes, it was not uncommon in the Middle Ages to teach horses to kick and bite on command. This was done after the horse was conditioned to work under battle conditions (loud noises etc) and to accept pain without bolting. It must have been really tough to be a war stallion. So you have a Masters in Spanish Lit? Cool. Yes, I've read Lazarillo. If you liked that, you should surely try El Buscon. It is hilarious--especially the part where they are in the school and then 'rescued' from it. You might alos try the novels of Castillo Solorzano--they are not first rate but they do fit your screen name (the picaro is a picara).

Author's reply

I'm glad you feel it is exciting. I can never resist a little focus on strategy because I find it interesting personally. My friend who is reading this and I argue over it because she says it slows the pace too much. They have underestimated Amon Lanc. I can't promise they won't be hurt. *evil grin* Thanks so much or the review!

Author's reply

Thanks French Pony, I'm really glad you liked it. This was very difficult to write. I do medieval battle re-enactment on a regular basis (historically based stuff, not Society for Creative Anachronism, though I used to do that too). I am a flanking archer normally but I also carry a broadsword and a dagger and I am usually an officer, so I do know something about proper commands and the use of bladed weapons. I love designing tactics. Last summer, one of our free mêlées (i.e. one we did for fun that wasn't scripted) was exactly this situation and I am copying the tactics and outcome of our battle. So I know this general scheme worked at least once. :) That was fascinating about Montcalm--not a good choice! I am definitely going to have to look that up. The One Hundred Years War contains other examples of commanders making equally poor choices of that nature and that is what we re-enact alot. But--I almost passed out laughing at your Blues Brothers parody. I actually have the movie on and I am watching it right now. How about that for a really bizarre coincidence?! When I read that I about died. Too funny. Thanks for the review. You made my day because I worried about this chapter. Writing battles is tough to do.

Author's reply

Thanks. I find them very difficult to write although I like the topic intellectually. I do historical battle re-enactments and I love pre-gunpowder era strategy and tactics. Yes, Aradunnon has got a hornets nest on his hands, no doubt. They did not know exactly what they were facing. They did the best reconnaissance they could but under the circumstances they just couldn't find everything. Perhaps that is the nature of Amon Lanc and the evil dwelling there. It is definitely a sign of trouble. That will be clear to Thranduil before his day is over.