Reviews (16)

Ithiliel · 13 May 2016 · Chapter 1: An Essay

Thank goodness that I came here! I'm so glad I found someone who thinks as I do. I don't like very much how the movies showed Celeborn, though I watched them first and then read the book. It was precisely because of what he said about Gimli and Gandalf that I kinda fell in love with him. As you've already pointed out, he's not to be compared to Elrond or Galadriel, because how can you compare an apple and a bear? They are both fruits, but, well, that's that. There are elves and elves. I love both of your essays so much! And I totally agree with everything you say in here. What I read about him in fanfiction could bring me to tears sometimes...so all hail that tall fellow!

Athrabeth · 19 January 2015 · Chapter 1: An Essay

Thank you for writing this! It's been so long since I've read LotR I've honestly forgotten all but the gist of it...and Celeborn was one of the many characters I'd just never given much thought. I especially like your point about him being the only elf who seems really "alive." Also, the idea that he only seems weak in light of modern sexism (which thinks that no "real man" would be okay marrying a stronger, more famous woman) is also accurate, I think. I definitely have a new appreciation for Celeborn now..!

Aiwen · 25 March 2010 · Chapter 1: An Essay

I have to agree with your assessment of Celeborn. Very definitely not Valium-afflicted.

Author's reply

Thanks Aiwen! I wouldn't have quibbled with "rude", but I don't know where everyone gets the idea that he's calm from :)

green.laoch · 24 September 2009 · Chapter 1: An Essay

Again, not come off as creepy with more compliments, well done analysis of Celeborn. I read your other one too "The Tall Fellow next to Galadriel." I'm just starting to get into fan fiction and the relationship between them has always intrigued me because there isn't much lore said about him. I certainly was turned off of his depiction of the character in the movies, but I still held him in my thoughts as someone who possessed the same capacity of intelligence and wisdom, if not more, than Galadriel- certainly this powerful woman needs a stabilizer in her own way, I didn't see her as a person who looked for a trophy husband, seems to shallow and her character is anything but. Your story and essays helped me realize him in a new light, as I never considered his background before and indeed the conflicts it would bring with hers. Thanks a bunch! Keep it up! Dom

Author's reply

*G* Thank you! And I never think compliments about my writing are creepy :) I'm particularly happy that my essays and story are helping you to get a grip on the character of Celeborn! When I started in the fandom, he was rather despised, so I think he needs his supporters to counteract that. I suppose I see Celeborn and Galadriel as being a mixed marriage. A bit as though a high ranking Englishwoman had gone to India and married an Indian prince there - and now they have to negotiate the ructions that marriage causes, with her people looking down on him, and his people thinking he's a traitor to them. The mystical powers don't quite fit the analogy, but you can't have everything! Thank you! Marnie :)

whitewave · 17 December 2008 · Chapter 1: An Essay

This is a very enjoyable read, I like your incisive analysis of the scenes in the LOTR to show us the real Celeborn. I agree with all your points--a simple, absent-minded elf cannot possibly court, or be in a lasting marriage with a strong Noldo like Galadriel. It was a shame that we saw so little of him in the books and the movie.

Author's reply

Thanks Whitewave! I'm afraid it's pretty obvious that Celeborn is my favourite elf, so it was a bit of a downer for me to start in a fandom which thought of him as a non-entity. That's what got me into the whole Sindar v. Noldor question and examining the very Western colonialist attitude of the Valinorean elves. I don't think he's as disparaged in the fandom as he used to be, any more, thank goodness :)

alya · 15 April 2006 · Chapter 1: An Essay

I wonder if the old saying "It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" might apply. ;-)

Author's reply

I prefer to think of it this way; you don't have to be polite in order to be right. And in the spirit of that conclusion, if you comment only in order to mock, I would prefer that you didn't bother at all.

alya · 15 April 2006 · Chapter 1: An Essay

Sphinx · 3 July 2004 · Chapter 1: An Essay

It's ALWAYS fun to read this. 'That Tall Fellow' catapulted me into a full-scale Cel-fangirl, and this simply reinforces it. Gret work, once again. And written perfectly in the tone Celeborn would have liked. :D

Author's reply

Thanks for the review, Sphinx! Nice to have you back :) I'm glad you liked this one - I suspect the tone was more influenced by my muse than I suspected; somewhat more confrontational than my usual style.

Sigil Galen · 17 June 2004 · Chapter 1: An Essay

Spot-on analysis of such a misunderstood character. I see now why I always adore your Celeborn--you really GET him completely. :) You know, I've always adored him myself, in part because of something you mentioned. Can you imagine what kind of self-possession he must have to be husband to Galadriel (and successfully it would seem) for thousands of years? That does not indicate a lack of character, to my way of thinking. Nicely done!

Author's reply

Thanks, Sigil Galen! Wow, I am chuffed that you think I 'get' Celeborn. I think I'd probably say that he got me :) He arrived in my head, bringing 'Those Who Remain' almost fully formed with him, and settled down as my muse as though he owned the place. But yes, I'm not surprised, after 7 millenia with Galadriel, that someone like Boromir can't ruffle his feathers ;) Oh, and welcome to HA, btw. I lurk there mainly. It's a good place, but for feedback, Stories of Arda is better.

Nilmandra · 16 June 2004 · Chapter 1: An Essay

Wonderful job again, Marnie! I need no convincing that Celeborn was indeed Wise and Powerful. My Celeborn doesn't quite stack up as well as yours (he is incredible) but I am in full agreement that he is not dull nor Galadriel's sidekck. I happen to like Galadriel - she is an unusual female, probably in both Middle-earth and in Valinor - and I do think she chose well her husband. Celeborn is secure in his masculinity in choosing a wife who is powerful and bossy. She doesn't intimidate him. Again, great job. You are indeed the number one bard to Celeborn the Wise.

Author's reply

Thanks for the review, Nilmandra! In this current dearth of Celeborn stories it's History Lessons 2 (and Bodkin's Valinor series) which is keeping me sane. I do like your Celeborn, and your Galadriel is probably closer to canon than mine, as I had to tone her down before I could bear her ;) (It's not the power, so much as the way she has of making sure everybody knows about it :) ) But you're right - every male in Middle-earth seems to be either terrified of Galadriel (the Rohirrim) or her ardent worshipper. Celeborn must have something special about him not to fall into either camp.

Coriel · 16 June 2004 · Chapter 1: An Essay

YES. Another well-deserved plug for Celeborn and all his lovely outspoken Sindarinness. Again, you know what you're talking about, and made it a pleasure to read. I love serious essays that make me laugh! :D

Author's reply

Thanks for the review, Coriel :) Lately everything I read either doesn't have Celeborn in it, or has nasty!Celeborn, and I guess I saw red and was a bit more outspoken than normal. My excuse is, I'm only following my muse's example of forceful tactlessness ;)

Elvenesse · 16 June 2004 · Chapter 1: An Essay

Thank you so much for writing this. I like Galadriel, but it seems that she spends quite a lot of her time gliding around and playing with her foresight and Magic Mirror (okay that's over exaggerated). I think they make a perfect team and as you point out, he is very like the Elves in the Silmarillion – full of life and very much there. Maybe those who revere Galadriel think he’s beneath her, but then they are discrediting her. She chose him as her husband and she named him Wise. What you point out is so obvious and yet I've never properly thought about it before.

Author's reply

Thank you for the review, Elveness :) It does seem to me that if Galadriel spends all that time with the Magic Mirror, making Lembas and weaving the cloaks of the Galadhrim, there simply isn't *time* for her to run the country as well. Personally I revere Celeborn and have to make myself like Galadriel for his sake, against my own inclinations. But I guess that's just wierd of me ;) Sometimes the obvious gets overlooked just because it's so obvious, so I'm glad to know I've done a good job in pointing it out. Thanks!

Bodkin · 16 June 2004 · Chapter 1: An Essay

I meant, just in case you misinterpreted it - I am doing the mindless wittering. You are the one who knows your stuff. Very well.

Bodkin · 16 June 2004 · Chapter 1: An Essay

You feel quite strongly about this, don't you? Good for Celeborn - top elf. And Galadriel - top elf's wife. Do you think perhaps he deliberately stuck her up there to grab the limelight? While he preferred to be the producer? Mindless wittering - you know the stuff!

Author's reply

Yes, I do feel quite strongly about it; was I foaming at the mouth a bit? ;) Trust me to fall in love with a character that either no one writes at all, or they write vapid, insipid and boring. (Present company excepted, of course.) I think he was probably fairly happy to have her in the limelight, being fully aware that her people skills were greater than his. I can see her loving the diplomacy for its own sake, and him getting impatient with how long it took to get anything done. Anyway, now I'm wittering :) Thanks for the review!

Thundera Tiger · 16 June 2004 · Chapter 1: An Essay

Oh Marnie, how I love thee. Let me count the ways... This essay is BEAUTIFUL! A wonderfully cutting depiction of Celeborn, an elf I've always loved for many of the same reasons that you do. But I could never put it as eloquently as you, so I'm endlessly glad whenever you churn out these little essays. They're so accurate! So plain! So obvious! And yet we still all sit around reading it saying things like, "Oh yeah...I guess that DID happen..." I think the description I like best is "one of the most swiftly decisive, practical, and forceful elves in the book." And that's nailed everything on the head. Our experiences with elves include Gildor and his painful dithering when Frodo tries to get some pretty obvious advice out of him concerning Black Riders, Elrond and his crazy council which spend the bulk of the morning recounting history, and Legolas who plays background mantel-piece elf for pretty much the entire trilogy. Then there's Celeborn, who is so different from everyone else that it's like being woken by a splash of ice water in the early morning, and you've taken the time and effort to show us why. I love your explanation of Galadriel's place, putting her in a mothering role. It's actually a perspective I hadn't looked at before, and that entire scene with Gimli now makes much more sense than before. I also love the way you point out that the major decisions come from Celeborn, something I knew but never actually connected with. And I'm right there with you on believing that the Celeborn and Aragorn conversation in FotR:EE was spot on. Perfect! I have *one* tiny little quibble, and strangely enough, it's about Galadriel, not Celeborn. I don't know of anybody who understands Celeborn better than you, so I'm not going to doubt any of your assertions. I agree with all of them anyway. But back to Galadriel, you make the claim that she misses Boromir's problem as she didn't talk to Aragorn about it. Which would be fine except that Gandalf says she spoke to *him* about it. And the only reason I remember this because I thought it odd that she wouldn't say anything to Aragorn. Thoughts on that, oh great mistress of the Lothlorien couple? Why would Galadriel let slip something so vital when the Fellowship was there to be helped and then tell Gandalf about it later? Or was Boromir's problem not big enough to mention at their first meeting and grew until it was a problem by the end of their stay in Lothlorien? Just thoughts. Anyway, thank you SO much for clearing up Celeborn so many times. It's always a pleasure to read!

Author's reply

Wow! *blushes* Thanks! I think it's telling that it's Celeborn and Thranduil who get such a hard time in fandom (zombie!Celeborn and evil!Thranduil). They are the only two elves who appear to have an agenda (dare I say it, a life) of their own, and don't consider themselves to be entirely there just to aid the heroes. That makes them considerably more bolshy than your average elf. I loved the way you put it - like a splash of ice water. Yes, all through LotR you're expecting the elves to be gentle and nice, and here's Celeborn getting angry and critical. There's no wonder no one knows what to make of him. I have to confess I forgot that bit about Galadriel having warned Gandalf. That was useful of her, wasn't it! My guess was that she was being a typical cautious Noldo and saying to herself 'it may never happen - he's tempted, but he may yet hold out. I won't tell Aragorn, because that might make matters worse...' Or, of course, it might be that it was her testing which brought Boromir's problem to the fore (as Sam implies), so that, as you say, by the end of the stay he was noticably worse than at the beginning. Or perhaps it was something she saw in her mirror between the Fellowship leaving Lorien and Gandalf arriving? Either way it seems fairly characteristic that she would give the warning just when it was too late to do any good. (I'm sorry, I try my hardest to write her sympathetic, but in my deepest, darkest heart I don't really like her very much. Probably because she's just too bloody omniscient and I can't bear it ;) ) Many thanks for such a great review!

Ms. Whatsit · 16 June 2004 · Chapter 1: An Essay

This is an interesting essay, and I like it very much (I also prefer the blunt Sindarin elves to the Noldor). The part about Galadriel acting as the "mother" of the country is intriguing--I hadn't thought about her actions in that light before. I think Celeborn's a bit overlooked even by the characters in his own universe. Galadriel's the only one to call him Celeborn the Wise--even Aragorn, when he's talking about the wise people who he thinks can see through Saruman, only mentions Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel. And Celeborn doesn't show up in any songs the way Galadriel does, poor guy.

Author's reply

Thanks for the review, Ms Whatsit. Yes I was amazed, when reading this book on Anglo-Saxon feasting, to find a description of the role of the Lady of the Hall which fitted Galadriel perfectly. The whole bit in 'Farewell to Lorien' where she takes the cup round to Celeborn and then to the guests is right out of a Saxon etiquette manual ;) Perhaps Celeborn turns up in the songs of the Sindar/Silvan elves, which attribute the success of the C+G partnership entirely to him? I'd like to think so ;)