Nilmandra
· 20 July 2004
· Chapter 29: Grass Widower
Ah, not being a parent I can only imagine that point where the parent thinks back tothe havoc they caused their parents and hope they are spared. Meanwhile, the grandparents are giggling, thinking they will finally see justice when their children have to go through what they did.
I hope Thranduil, Elrond and Celebrian (and all the others) are spoiling these elflings rotten. :D
Author's reply
I can just picture Thranduil stirring up riot and rebellion among the young. Actually I can see Celebrian teasing, too. Elrond seems a bit too sensible - perhaps he should be encouraged to release his inhibitions.
Elladan and Elrohir, especially, must dread what the offspring will do - after all, they know the added delight of twins, egging each other on.
daw the minstrel
· 19 July 2004
· Chapter 29: Grass Widower
So Legolas misses his family. Good. That's wonderful. And they are worried that the kids will give them trouble. Good again! I'm sure Elrond and Thranduil are sitting back smiling.
Author's reply
Time for grandparental payback. Time to bring out the old stories, drop hints about what the parents got up to, over-indulge the little ones in foodstuffs designed to make them sick, take them to the elven theme park and return them home just before their stomachs rebel.
Poetic justice.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 19 July 2004
· Chapter 29: Grass Widower
Oh dear. These three never learn, do they? 'Tell them what we did and make them promise not to copy us.' They may as well just hand over an instruction manual and be done.
Some of the Elladan incidents have a horrible ring of truth about them - but I still want to know what happened when he nearly drowned Elrohir!
Author's reply
I'm sure their elflings would be imaginative enough just to use their father's activities as a starting point for further havoc. I don't think Miriwen will let Elladan do it - she strikes me as an incredibly sensible and practical one. Elerrina and Sirithiel might be won over, though.
When he nearly drowned Elrohir, huh? I'll have to put it on the list.
Lindelea
· 15 July 2004
· Chapter 28: Mid-life Crises
O so true. Our children don't believe that we were children upon a time.
'...we are to say nothing else today that is not entirely frivolous and light-minded.'
***
‘For a frivolous and light-hearted conversation, this is very depressing,’ Elrohir commented.
That was my thought!
Good chapter, nice sense of balance and timing. Just how many thousands of years old would "middle age" be in an elf, anyhow?
Author's reply
Age can mean anything to an elf, I think. I've sort of decided it's more to do with stage of life. They are into the married with children stage, when you realise you are no longer able to behave on impulse, you have responsibilities and duties and you can't expect someone to come and clean up behind you. (Men often seem to get very stressed and nostalgic for their carefree youth when they become fathers. Although this is before the point when the children are growing up and they go off and buy red Harley Davisons or two seater convertibles.)
Thank you. I'll try to be rather lighter in tone next time!
Jay of Lasgalen
· 15 July 2004
· Chapter 28: Mid-life Crises
One of your slightly more sombre chapters, especially Elladan's remembering of his mother. But the elflings need to know; maybe not all the details and specifics, but they need to know of the horrors their parents and grandparents faced. I wonder what their reaction would be when they learn that Legolas (ada or uncle) is such a hero? Awe or disinterest?
Jay
Author's reply
It must be very tempting to bury the dark memories - much as soldiers from WW1 and other wars did - but you're right, the young need to know. Although how much understanding they can have in a world where there are no nasties, I don't know. How well can you comprehend hunger or fear when you live in a first world country?
Legolas as a hero - do you think they might feel the stories are about someone else, and he (boring older generation elf complaining about table manners and consideration) was just given the same name? And then disbelief, followed by acceptance, followed by disregard?
Artemis
· 15 July 2004
· Chapter 28: Mid-life Crises
*snicker* I was thrown into helpless fits of giggles by your little story...it's great! Congrats on making the ever-hyper twins scared of turning into their Adar! And Legolas turning into Thranduil is funny...nice work ^^
Author's reply
If children realised they would probably turn into their parents, do you think they would be kinder when they were young? Or do you think they would be rather harsher?
Of course, Elrond and Thranduil are not bad people to turn into - it's probably the sobriety that gets to the elflings.
Anonymous
· 15 July 2004
· Chapter 28: Mid-life Crises
We want to keep them innocent, but that is not the same thing as ignorant.’
Outstanding line.
Author's reply
But, I feel, so true.
daw the minstrel
· 15 July 2004
· Chapter 28: Mid-life Crises
Oh my, can I ever relate to this. My mother's words come right out of my mouth. How did they get in there???
I was intrigued to read these three wondering how much to tell their children. I think the children do need to know about evil. After all, Valinor has been the site of some pretty awful things. The distinction between ignorance and innocence is one it's well to remember.
Author's reply
Isn't there a saying that: All women turn into their mothers, that is their curse. No men turn into theirs and that is their curse. Insult or compliment? Matter of opinion.
The desire to protect your children is very strong and it is easy to confuse ignorance and innocence, but there are things (eg holocaust) that should never be forgotten; where innocence is best protected by ensuring that ignorance is banished. Valinor has been the site of awful episodes - and possible only the immortality and perfect memory of elves has prevented repeat events.
Rose Sared
· 15 July 2004
· Chapter 28: Mid-life Crises
Silly boys, as if they could stop their children hearing of the doing of their great days in Middle-earth. Better to write it down otherwise it will get all twisted methinks.
Lovely.
Rose
Author's reply
Yes, they ought to write their history. I can see why they don't want certain stories to come out, though. Some tales are just too much. It's why war stories are always about the excitement and the fellowship rather that the less glamorous aspects. But the truth should be somewhere.
Thank you.
Rose Sared
· 13 July 2004
· Chapter 27: Leading Strings
Well, I go away for a couple of weeks and the story advances by generations! G.
Lovely stuff as ever, keep up the good work.
Rose
Author's reply
I hope you had a good holiday/vacation (delete as applicable) and have come back full of stories!
The nice thing about this is that leaps forward in a completely arbitrary manner. The trouble will come if I find I've left something major out!
Thank you for continuing to read.
Nilmandra
· 11 July 2004
· Chapter 27: Leading Strings
I like Elrin hiding in the tree above his father's head. Elladan has lost his edge - his elfling can stalk him!
Of course the ellyth must be included. :D
Author's reply
That moment of panic, when your child cannot be seen - it just overwhelmed him with 'where can he have got to?' and 'Miriwen is going to kill me!' Rapidly followed by 'he's safe!' and 'I'm going to kill him!' Parenthood, what a roller coaster.
It might be difficult (actually, impossible) to include too many offspring here - because it's stuck in the convention of everyone else just having walk-on parts.
It'll have to develop in the Elflings story.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 10 July 2004
· Chapter 27: Leading Strings
I love to see Elladan playing with his son and worrying over him - but I do hope that the ellyth, all of them, join the expeditions when they are old enough. I'm of the generation when girls went to Brownies or Guides - but I always wanted to do the fun, outdoors activities my brother did in Cubs and Scouts!
Will you *please* tell us what happened when Elrohir nearly drowned? Please?
Jay
Author's reply
I hope the ellyth are not too girly, too. I'm not a fan of them sitting home doing their hair while the ellyn get all the fun! Of course, they might prefer that . . . no, they wouldn't. Catch them young and train them to be little Galadriels.
Elrohir's near-drowning experience, huh? Well, maybe.
daw the minstrel
· 10 July 2004
· Chapter 27: Leading Strings
Looks like the twins are getting a little back of what they gave out! Interesting question on whether they should have weapons training. Do they still hunt for meat? That might make it reasonable for all children to learn the bow. The sword is something else again, I think.
Author's reply
These three couldn't possible have good little children, could they? (I don't think they would want to, really!)
I think weapons training would be fairly automatic - and a social class thing, too, probably. Bows for hunting, certainly, but swords would probably also be necessary for protection against some larger animals, if they get too close. But there's a moot point about weapons, isn't there - train people to fight and they probably will. (Although not training them won't necessarily stop them.) And then there is training as discipline. Oh well, regardless of the morality, I can't see them letting go of the sword yet.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 6 July 2004
· Chapter 26: Reflections
What a beautiful chapter. I love Elrohir's simple joy in marriage and fatherhood, and the increased respect he feels for his own father. The twins' reflections on what Elrond has endured is very thought-provoking - he lost so much.
Jay
Author's reply
Some of these snippets take more revision shall we say than others - this one just flowed.
The twins are happy elves at the moment - fulfilled. And parenthood does have a tendency to make you realise what your parents have suffered. Although Elrond suffered more than practically anybody. It is a wonder to me that he remained such a kind, balanced, generous elf.
daw the minstrel
· 6 July 2004
· Chapter 26: Reflections
I just read the other day that babies actually ARE noturnal for the first few weeks. Isn't that cruel? I can remember craving sleep like a junky craves crack. I used to tell my husband that my feelings about sleep were like those of a teenaged boy about sex: I thought about it and longed for it; I wondered how it would feel if I could get it. Sigh. If I had the perspective then that I have now, I would have relaxed and enjoyed the company of my son more, but at the time, it was a killer.
I like the way becoming husbands and fathers has changed these two and given them new respect for Elrond. My picture of him has been formed by Nilmandra's "History Lesson" and I just can't imagine how he stood all the pain he suffered.
Author's reply
Babies - you stagger around desperate for them to sleep, and then, when they flake out, you hover over the cradle scared to death they are going to stop breathing.
Perspective - that's the advantage of having more than one little monster (though not twins). First time round you are terrified they will break, or you will damage them for life by letting them cry / feeding them wrongly / not showing them flashcards of French words etc, etc. By the second you know they will survive most things and you're much calmer. The third - hey, kids won't come to any harm - like cockroaches, they're survivors.
The twins have become more rounded, I think, by having families - and any respect for Elrond is well deserved. All the good bits in his life seem to have been chosen to make the kicks hurt worse.
Nilmandra
· 6 July 2004
· Chapter 26: Reflections
I like seeing Elrohir as the calm father, walking a restless child, but I particularly enjoyed them discussing Elrond (yes, I am an Elrond fan girl).
Author's reply
Elrond - tragic hero. So little in his life seemed to remain untouched - if any elf deserves an eternity of happiness in Valinor, it is him. And yet - he is still missing his parents (I think) - not that he really knew them anyway, and he will never be reunited with Arwen. Quite why Tolkien chose to kick him in the teeth so much I don't know. (Any ideas?)
I found I liked this one, too - I can just see the brothers and the flat-out, limp infant who would start crying as soon as Elrohir stopped moving.
Jule
· 5 July 2004
· Chapter 24: Come with your Playfellows
This is cute. I love these guys is Ada. It is so adorable to imagine Elladan hiding or the Elrin telling a story to the tiny ellon. I love to think about Eleniel telling Elrohir a story but then imediately going into her Ada's arms.
I can't wait for the next chapter.
Thanks for writing
Jule
Author's reply
Thank you for reading! I liked the image of Elladan coming out from the flower border and acting dignified! They are very happy fathers and uncles - it has been a long time coming for them and they are loving it.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 3 July 2004
· Chapter 25: Completing the Set
Very nice. I like how Elrohir was allowed at the birth when Legolas wasn't - and how he tried to keep his worries from his wife. And I liked Elladan sensing what was happening through their bond - very twinny. I expect Legolas will have to get used to that with his own elflings.
Jay
Author's reply
Well - Elrohir must have had a much better idea of what to do. I doubt childbirth featured much in Emergency Medical Training for Warriors. I thought that, for an event as momentous as this, Elladan would be much more aware of his twin's feelings.
I'm not sure the emotional link would be quite as strong with Legolas's elflings - as they are fraternal rather than identical, though they are bound to have the 'nurture' kind of closeness - at least until gender gets in their way.
daw the minstrel
· 3 July 2004
· Chapter 25: Completing the Set
Bodkin, I think you write more quickly than I do!
More little girls! Yeah! I like the way Elladan can feel Elrohir's worry and joy. The comments about Galadriel were interesting. I think Elladan is right. Galadriel is nobody's girly girl.
Author's reply
I'm a bit ahead of myself on these, so I can put them up quite quickly. I'd say Galadriel is pretty tough - but she's operating in a male-oriented world. (Apparently the way some Arab states deal with the Queen of UK is to declare that she is an honorary man, because otherwise she would have to be relegated to the women's areas. Galadriel seems to be the female elf with honorary male status.)
The incidence of twins is a bit overdone (1 in 40 births isn't it? For Men.) But hey, it was too irresistible to give Legolas twins, and then one of the twins had to have twins.
Nilmandra
· 3 July 2004
· Chapter 24: Come with your Playfellows
It is quite a lovely view to think of the these three elves playing with their elflings on the lawn. No longer slaying orcs or siders, no trolls or wargs to ththreaten them. How different this life must seem, but how wonderful to know ththat their children will not face the dangers of Arda marred.
Author's reply
That is probably one thing that would reconcile them more than anything, don't you think? Parents all want to have the world safe for their offspring.
Thank you for reading!
daw the minstrel
· 2 July 2004
· Chapter 24: Come with your Playfellows
I'm enjoying this view of these three as fathers. I have always believed that elves loved children and were good with them and these three certainly are. How funny that Elladan was forgotten out there in the grass!
Author's reply
They are enjoying having little ones to play with and I think they will be good fathers. They both have experienced a good role model in Elrond and Thranduil.
Children can be easily distracted - I wonder how long Elladan would have hidden before realising that Elrin was not going to come and find him!
Shemyaza
· 2 July 2004
· Chapter 24: Come with your Playfellows
I like your little vignettes about life in Paradise. The only issue I might have with it, is that despite being new fathers (or prospective fathers), they still sound very bored. The one other thing that bothers me about the idea of Valinor as a paradise, is the fact that this perfect place must be absolutely jampacked with Elves from all ages, jostling each other for elbow room! If you add to that, the fact that younger Elves like the twins and Legolas will be having elflings of their own, then I hope to Eru that Valinor has a land expansion programme, otherwise they might all be moving back to Middle Earth just to find a breathing space!
Author's reply
They are not bored now, Shemyaza. When they first arrived they were convalescent - they were suffering from the equivalent of shell shock and they found the transition hard, but they have settled in and found families and purpose. These little chats of theirs take place in those kind of weekend, male bonding moments between their responsibilities to their duties and their families. In fact, I would imagine that as their children grow and their work takes over, it will become more difficult for them to get away, but they will always treasure the time they can spend together.
Yes, I can see Valinor as rather overcrowded, too. That, together with the fact that I cannot see characters such as Celeborn Galadriel and Thranduil settling down happily in a small house in downtown Valinor has me moving them on, like pioneers, to establish new realms in the unexplored far west - which would absorb all their family and involve them in a lot of work! (And if this is Paradise, then surely the Valar can expand the amount of space available, if necessary.)
Population expansion (through refugees and elfling arrival) would be a problem - but the refugees no longer arrive (or only in ones and twos) and the birth rate would be relatively low as I don't think elves have many children and they mostly don't seem to have them when they are very young - I mean the twins are about four thousand years old.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 2 July 2004
· Chapter 24: Come with your Playfellows
I love the image of the three elfling playing together. E2 and L are clearly very good fathers and uncles, and Elrohir can't wait for his turn at being ada.
The game of hide and seek at the beginning reminded me of my son - if he felt his little sister was annoying him, he'd suggest a game. Once she went and hid somewhere, he would return to playing with his Lego. She would often hide for up to half an hour before realising he wasn't looking for her!
Jay
Author's reply
Older brothers can be very mean - but they just see it as neatly removing a problem. I think E2L would love being fathers - it would give them the excuse to do all those boy things that they are supposed to have outgrown. I can see them treasuring daughters and romping with sons, though I fear they may not be so keen on romping with daughters and treasuring sons! I hope they have tomboys. In many ways I think their experiences have made them value the joys of family life - more probably than those elves of Valinor who have never known danger and fear.
Elrohir's turn soon!
daw the minstrel
· 30 June 2004
· Chapter 23: Moving on
These three sound like people getting ready to settle the American West. They'll take their families and their belongings on a wagon train! I can see the attraction of having work to do. Filling their time in interesting ways must actually have been something Elves had to deal with a quite a lot, given their longevity.
Author's reply
Pioneers settling the American West is actually the picture that has been playing out in my head - except more foresty and fewer plains. Any kind of movement of peoples, be it refugees (Doriath, Gondolin, Sarajevo) or settlers (Lindon, Imladris, American West, Australia) must require the transport of materials, food, people. It would be a logistical nightmare, even to elves who would largely live off the country and build homes in trees.
Elves must have expected change in their lives, even as they would have resisted it. As you say - no-one gets to be seven thousand without having seen plenty of it, both good and bad. (Could lead to depression, I would have thought.)
Jay
· 30 June 2004
· Chapter 23: Moving on
So how long elapsed between Elrohir refusing to speak, and telling all? Two minutes? I loved the description of how they became aware there were two, and the difference with Legolas's experience. I wondered how elves would account for the fact that some twins are identical, and some aren't.
It seems old habits die hard - they hear a rustle in the forest, and one instantly goes to investigate, just in case. I think the challenge of elflings and setting up a new realm will give our elves, who were so bored at the beginning of this series, plenty to think about.
Jay
Author's reply
Well - not long. I imagine he revealed the secret as soon as they questioned him, but saved the details for when they were sitting round the camp fire drinking their tea. I don't know how they would account for identical / fraternal twins - but I think they would have been aware of it. After all people who can hear trees and the song of the stars would be able to sense the song of their children and I would imagine that identical twins would start off sounding identical and then harmonise as different experience (even just the physical separation in utero) affected them.
They will always be more cautious than elves who have never known danger - it is part of who they are. And they are becoming very busy - which they need. Idleness is not good for them.