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Seeds of Old Trees  by Marnie 49 Review(s)
BodkinReviewed Chapter: 8 on 10/1/2004
'As for talking, I suspect there'll be several hours more talking - with Finarfin and Earwen et al - before they have to face the question of whether he's still going to be sleeping in the guest bedroom or not.'

- If he is, I'll bet I know who else will arrive there! (And I don't mean Finrod.)

'I do have an idea for a happy ending for Elmo. Fingers crossed, that might be a sequel.'

Yes, please. (And Oak and Willow, too.)

I have now read this several times and it gets better with each reading. I won't go through it, but I'll just point out one or two of my favourite bits -

'Long he had lain dormant in the dark earth, drenched with cold rain, but the sun had returned and brought forth life.'

- So Lord of the Trees. Beautiful image.

'She was well aware that he followed her now. Her mind refused to contemplate the black pit of rejection if he had not.'

- All that saying she didn't need him - I'm glad he didn't take her at her first word.

'a dark yew hedge, where grounded raindrops glimmered golden among the fleshy, coral berries.' Nothing to do with C or G, but such a gorgeously expressed image.

- All the storm/tempest/sea compared to his harbour/solid images - I loved them.

'that empathy and kindness in her which had saved her from becoming another Feanor.'

- Interesting idea that these qualities countered her less attractive arrogance and hunger for power. What would she have been like, how would she have ended up without Celeborn?

'If you feel it worth the fact that he will remind you of it until the end of time.'

- He will, too! I love Celeborn's concession to Celebrimbor's genius, as a gesture because he has regained Galadriel.

- The significance of the absence of Nenya.

And I loved, simply LOVED the mallorn seeds. They were absolutely perfect and led so well to the optimism of the ending.

Have you realised yet that I really enjoyed this story? And its ending? And its reviews?





Author Reply: Wow! Bodkin! I'm starting to realise that you must have quite liked this story! I'm sure you're right about the spare bedroom thing - and no, *not* Finrod, this isn't *that* kind of story ;)

If he had decided to take her at her word and not go to her, I'm sure she would have gone to him *eventually*, but then there would have had to have been much more violence and recrimination before they worked it out.

The idea that it's Galadriel's empathy and ability to believe the best of others which saved her from becoming like Feanor is based on what Tolkien says about her in 'The History of Galadriel and Celeborn' - about how she saw deeply into the characters of others but judged them with goodwill.

Who knows what she learned from Celeborn, but she's the only one of her family to have survived past the First Age, and the only one who can be said to have 'gone native', and that almost certainly had something to do with him. I'm also pretty sure she would have taken the Ring, if she hadn't already had to listen to him nag her about what a mistake it was taking Nenya for an Age of the world ;)

I put the mallorn seeds in because of what Haldir said to the Fellowship about 'it would be a poor life in a land where no mallorn grows, but if there are Mallorn trees beyond the Sea, none have reported it.' I felt it couldn't really be a happy ending for him and all the other Galadhrim unless the mallorns got introduced. It also seemed nicely symbolic of C+G's relationship starting again from the seeds of what they had had in the past. So I'm glad they worked for you.

Fabulous comments, btw! It makes it all worth while for me. Thanks again.

Belle BayardReviewed Chapter: 8 on 10/1/2004
Wonderful conclusion to this story, Marnie! Truly hope we get to see them again in a future story. As usual, you have done a lovely job of showing us Elves as imperfect, yet incredibly fascinating creatures. And yes, we do miss them very much.

Belle

Author Reply: Thanks, Belle! I had, this morning, an idea for a rather strange story where Celeborn finally finds his grandfather. So that may be coming up soonish. But I really ought to try to do some more Oak and Willow first.

Glad you enjoyed it :)

AmarieReviewed Chapter: 2 on 10/1/2004
I just love this story. Are you planning to do a sequel? Where the mortals who have died can come to Valinor through the Halls of Mandos. It would be nice to see Arwen reunited with her father and Luthien with hers.

Author Reply: Thanks for the review, Amarie! I'm hoping to do a very short sequel where Celeborn finally rescues his grandfather Elmo.

But Arwen and Luthien, I'm afraid, are gone for good - Mortal souls only go to Mandos for a short time and then go off somewhere completely different, where elves just can't go. Unless something unexpected happens after the end of the world they never will ever be reunited with their fathers or friends or families. It's kind of miserable, isn't it? Poor Elu and poor Elrond! At least I was able to get a happy ending in there for almost everyone else :)

daw the minstrelReviewed Chapter: 8 on 9/30/2004
Lovely finish, Marnie. I'm so glad that Galadriel let her anger go. I liked the seeds. I see where the title comes from and the suggestion of things beyond trees.

Author Reply: Thanks, Daw! As you can tell, I had the ending in mind from the beginning - hence the title. And in fact the title comes from the end of Battle of the Golden Wood where - just before he and Galadriel part - Celeborn says that the Doom of Mandos isn't a curse at all but the way the world works; you pick the seeds up, take them somewhere else and plant anew. Even there he wasn't really just talking about seeds either. So, much kudos and worship to you for spotting the theme!

SulrielReviewed Chapter: 8 on 9/30/2004
Wonderful.

Also, an aside from the main plot line. - I'm always tickled (and amazed) at the understanding and depth of characterization you have of the differences between the races of Elves. The line about the garden being groomed to look wild is so deliciously Noldorian, I've been giggling about it all day. I love how such a simple statement so completely defines one of the elements of 'feyness' of the Noldor.

Author Reply: Thanks, Sulriel! I reckoned that as the Noldor were both obsessive artists and rather inclined to conquer and control they would prefer even their wilderness to be crafted to perfection :)

The Silmarillion does that 'the Noldor were greater of mind and body, and more intelligent, and more inclined to arts and crafts and lore and battle and magic and... but the Sindar were good at singing' thing. So it's interesting to wonder why they're simply not noticing any Sindar achievements at all. Maybe Sindar culture was less inclined to put a big imprint on the land, and more involved in just appreciating it for what it was?

Either way the divisions seem to be so very important in the Silm that you'd hope they were noticable in other ways than the participants just trying to kill each other ;)

RAKSHA THE DEMONReviewed Chapter: 8 on 9/30/2004
This has been a delightful read; full of unexpected pleasures. I never thought I'd come to like Celeborn and Galadriel; but you brought them to life even better than Tolkien did...Which is no mean feat.

Author Reply: Many thanks for the kind comments both here and on the list, Raksha! I am really pleased if I've managed to make you even slightly fond of Celeborn and Galadriel. Galadriel does well enough, but Celeborn needs every supporter he can get ;)

It's very special to get a review from someone who liked the story without really being a fan of those characters. Thanks again!

BejaiReviewed Chapter: 8 on 9/30/2004
Oh, bravo Marnie! A wonderful finish to what has been a very facinating story. So many good things! I could go through line by line, raving about the brilliance in a turn of phrase and the images you evoke.

The reunion was everything I hoped it would be. A little bit irrational on both sides, loving and fearful, angry and ecstatic. You wrote it will all the heartpounding, breathtaking emotion that I knew you would. The details! Such genius. He deserved the hit, he really did, but I'm so glad she found it within herself to forgive, and I'm glad he was willing to stand in the storm until she worked it out. This really summed it up for me:

"He understood that she needed him to be a harbour, to brace himself and take the storm, until the waves could fall back and the sea lie calm within his encircling arms. But sometimes, he thought, shakily, she did not know her own strength, she did not know how close she came to breaking him." Yeah. That's it right there.

After you mentioned in in an email earlier this year, I finally found a copy of 'Smith' a month or so ago and read it. And you're right ... the Elf King and Queen did seem rather familiar. This is such a wonderful, unexpected tie in! Took my breath away when I realized what you'd done. Now I must go read 'Smith' again with this background in mind. Love the idea that the token was made by Celebrimbor. And in a star, to annoy Celeborn. Ha!

Celeborn's words about men were so poignant. The reminder that they are their distant grandchildren, who remember the elves distantly, who long not to be the only speaking ones in the universe! Who send messages out into the void, and hear only silence! Good of Celeborn to think of them, and know our hearts. Breathtaking, Marnie.

Sad to see it end. You're downright Tolkienesque in that, leaving gaps that leave the readers wondering about what we didn't see and with questions about the future. If you're not careful, people are going to start writing fanfiction about your stories ;)

A wonderful journey, as ever.

Author Reply: Thanks for the review, Bejai! I am very glad that you think the end didn't let it down, as I've been rather fond of this story and was worried that I would do something to ruin it, or at least not do it justice in this chapter. Their reunion in Deific Flame was something that I often held it up to in the hopes that it would be as good as that. (Though the shirt-twisting incident is just incapable of being equalled.)

There's a slight problem with chronology in tying it in with Smith - which was published, obviously, some time ago. But perhaps Celebrimbor's device had a few teething problems, like sending its user not only back to Ennor but slightly back in time too, the first time it was used? I've got space travel, why shouldn't I have time travel too ;)

I do think it's odd, the way we are so despirate to believe in life on other planets, that we are not alone. It does almost seem to point to the fact that we know we shouldn't be, and we can't understand how it came to be like this. Tolkien's set up, of us having the elves at first with us, in our distant prehistory, and then having them going away, fits so well with that feeling, that it almost has to be true... if only we didn't know that he'd made it up.

As for people telling the rest of the story - the 'elves in space' saga etc I'd love to read it. If only!

Mind you, I do have an idea for a happy ending for Elmo. Fingers crossed, that might be a sequel.

How's DF coming on? And is the foot completely better by now? I hope so!

Marnie :-)


NilmandraReviewed Chapter: 8 on 9/30/2004
Oh, a wonderful end, Marnie (you romantic, you!)

There are some just glorious moments in this chapter!

She shook herself, as though breaking from a spell, and her eyes flashed as she drew herself up to her full height, lifted her fist and slapped his upraised face with all her strength.

Trust Galadriel to smack him! She is lucky he didn't smack her back, but I guess he is a gentleman even when she forgets to be a lady. Their pain is very palpable - yet despite harsh words, it comes through clearly that neither is taking a chance on losing the other, no matter what little games they have been playing.

I like this too: Sometimes it was as though she held the spirit of all three clans within her, and one never knew which would come to the fore. and this he began to think that he was not so unnatural a Teler after all. Did he not love this sea, dangerous as it was, in all its moods? That sums them both up very well.

I had to laugh at what Celeborn noticed too - thinking this after battling with his wife: It was, Celeborn knew at once, carefully tended and designed to look wild, and he felt a small quirk of private laughter at the strangeness of the Noldor, who strove so hard for an effect they could have achieved by doing nothing.

It rather reminds me of their relationship actually - not that it could be achieved by doing nothing, but if they spent less time at each other's throats, they might have been happier. Oh well - they are what they are.

Wonderful ending. I couldn't figure out why they would still be talking, and with Finrod, when they had finally made up *grin* - but I love the idea of the Straight Road and the Fay-star and searching for their lost kin.

A wonderful story, Marnie. I'm sorry to see it end.


Author Reply: LOL! Thanks Nilmandra! I would have said I didn't have an ounce of romance in my soul, but perhaps it's Celeborn's influence and he has a carefully hidden romantic streak?

You're quite right - there was no way they weren't going to make up, but there was a serious amount of hurt to get out first.

I was glad you liked the idea of Galadriel as a sort of fusion of all three clans, Tolkien showed her Vanyar side, and her Noldor side, I think, but apart from sailing in a swan boat she doesn't get much of a chance to show her Teleri side. With all those sides it's not surprising that their relationship has a tendancy towards turmoil! But they might well have profited from just relaxing a little more.

As for talking, I suspect there'll be several hours more talking - with Finarfin and Earwen et al - before they have to face the question of whether he's still going to be sleeping in the guest bedroom or not ;)

I'm really glad you liked it. Thanks!

BodkinReviewed Chapter: 8 on 9/30/2004
You FINISHED it! It's too soon. Want more: want lots more!

What a fantastic story - I just loved all of it. And the reconciliation! It's a good thing that Galadriel bent when she did - and that she was aware of Celeborn's feelings. I most certainly wouldn't have wanted to be on the receiving end of that swing - and I suspect poor Celeborn will feel it for a while. I'm so relieved that in the end they couldn't resist acknowledging their deep love of each other and that they were each prepared to make concessions to the other.

I shall doubtless have to comment again after the next couple of readings, but I just had to let you know what a deeply satisfying conclusion this was to a beautifully crafted story.

Author Reply: Thanks Bodkin! I couldn't have carried on longer - I was already getting threats about what would happen if I didn't have Celeborn and Galadriel together by the end of this chapter ;) And then when they did get together, despite both being so stiff necked and bloodyminded, they were still far too sensible to let the estrangement go on any longer.

I'm delighted that you think it works as a conclusion though - that's great! I wasn't confident about it - I never am confident about my ability to write all that relationship stuff :)

SphinxReviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/19/2004
Bejai is right. Worldwide hair tearing.

Now, to sit back and watch Her Highness try and rip all that lovely silver hair out. ;)

To tell the truth, I’m divided in my opinion of this chapter. Part of me wholeheartedly wants to form some sort of Noldor defence, while the other half just wants to grab Finrod and take him Far, Far Away.

Space travel, Elf-style. Why not? ;) An ingenious plot twist, one that is not quite so AU once you sit down to think of it. I’m waiting eagerly to see what becomes of it.

But...Celebrimbor? A Pro-Noldor part of me awakens. Why does he not have the reborn joy that Calandil does? It is a Feanorian stereotype, I fear – rude, self-obsessed, creatively brilliant – but a sulky Mandos-returned Celebrimbor is hard to digest. But for all Celeborn's tactlessness, and his desire to grant Celebrimbor a knuckle sandwich, their meeting is a shade too bitter. It is as if neither has learnt anything with respect to the other - not Celebrimbor from Mandos, and not Celeborn from the Third Age and various years after that.

But I like Earwen in this, however brief her appearance. The opening scene set the tone for the ending, which was a rather terrible cliffhanger for people wanting to see the pots and pans fly.

Worldwide hair tearing. Remember that. :)

Sphinx

Author Reply: Thanks for the review, Sphinx! I'm sorry that you think Celebrimbor is a bit of a stereotype, but I had to take into account that he *was* a genius, that he *did* usurp rule of Eregion and then abandon it to make a futile gesture of defiance towards Sauron, which led to Sauron getting hold of the Nine.

He doesn't have Calandil's joy (a) because Calandil is a happy-go-lucky sort of person, whereas Celebrimbor is - canonically - a secretive genius, and I do not believe that the basic personality is changed by Mandos. And (b) because his moment of triumph has just been spoiled by the sudden reappearance of his rival in love. My thoughts on Celebrimbor are that he is brilliant, and he knows that he's considerably cleverer than Celeborn, and - because Celeborn has got the girl - he can't help but rub it in that Celeborn is thicker than he is.

In my mind it's not a Noldor/Sindar thing at all, but a rivalry in love. Celeborn is jealous and suspicious of him, he is jealous and suspicious of Celeborn, and they both use whatever weapons are to hand to try and keep each other in their place - which in Celebrimbor's case are his superior intelligence and his superior status as a Calaquendi, and in Celeborn's case is the basic threat that he's going to knock Celebrimbor's teeth out.

They both know better, of course, but neither of them are exactly having a good day. Do you really expect Celeborn to be reasonable on a day when he's uncertain whether his marriage is over for good?

The only part of Celebrimbor's Feanorian heritage which I was consiously using was his genius. His own, canonical actions, and the fact that he is in love with Celeborn's wife, seems to be enough to me to explain their animosity otherwise.

Author Reply: Thanks for the review, Sphinx! I'm sorry that you think Celebrimbor is a bit of a stereotype, but I had to take into account that he *was* a genius, that he *did* usurp rule of Eregion and then abandon it to make a futile gesture of defiance towards Sauron, which led to Sauron getting hold of the Nine.

He doesn't have Calandil's joy (a) because Calandil is a happy-go-lucky sort of person, whereas Celebrimbor is - canonically - a secretive genius, and I do not believe that the basic personality is changed by Mandos. And (b) because his moment of triumph has just been spoiled by the sudden reappearance of his rival in love. My thoughts on Celebrimbor are that he is brilliant, and he knows that he's considerably cleverer than Celeborn, and - because Celeborn has got the girl - he can't help but rub it in that Celeborn is thicker than he is.

In my mind it's not a Noldor/Sindar thing at all, but a rivalry in love. Celeborn is jealous and suspicious of him, he is jealous and suspicious of Celeborn, and they both use whatever weapons are to hand to try and keep each other in their place - which in Celebrimbor's case are his superior intelligence and his superior status as a Calaquendi, and in Celeborn's case is the basic threat that he's going to knock Celebrimbor's teeth out.

They both know better, of course, but neither of them are exactly having a good day. Do you really expect Celeborn to be reasonable with one of his wife's suitors on a day when he's uncertain whether his marriage is over for good? And if Celeborn is unreasonably aggressive towards Celebrimbor (which he was), do you expect Celebrimbor to meekly take it without finding some (in his case perfectly non-violent) way of asserting his own self-worth?

The only part of Celebrimbor's Feanorian heritage which I was consiously using was his genius. His own, canonical actions, and the fact that he is in love with Celeborn's wife, seems to be enough to me to explain their animosity otherwise.

Author Reply: Sorry! Didn't mean to do that twice, and now I can't figure out how to delete one of them. Do ignore at least one if not both ;)

Thanks again,

Marnie :-)

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